In order to be saved, people need to trust(believe) how Christ died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15 v 1-4). Not accepting him into your heart. Read: Ephesians 1 v 6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. (God is doing the accepting not man.)

That's good because Jesus is coming back soon.. People that are down and irritable, even believers that is the Lord Jesus Christ getting us ready to get out of here Just keep in prayer.

I find it hilarious when Pre-Tribbers try to wiggle out of this passage 😂. Their entire theory is completely non-sensical and they do not even have one☝️solid verse to stand on!

Another thing to note is the first sign is "Many will fall away from the faith" and the son of perdition is revealed. This translation of the rebellion doesn't clearly gives the context as Pre-Tribbers (I too was one) use this as they Fall Away(Raptured) to heaven... 🤦‍♂️ The true meaning is not the rebellion but many in the faith will fall away from the faith. There is a deception with the Pre-Trib Rapture false teaching at the core. What's concerning is Paul is talking to the church and not the world. This deception will lead many to fall away because the Do Not love the Truth. The truth is the word of God... Just like the context in 2Thessolonians 2. Because they(Church) do not love the Truth God himself sends a strong delusion that they might not be saved.... Not seeking the truth of Gods word means you are open to lies and deception, if not checked it becomes a Salvation issue....

@@Kubs777 Ironically, Luke warns that you don’t want to be Taken and would rather be “Left Behind”. “There will be two women grinding [at the mill] together; the one (the non-believer) will be taken [away in judgment] and the other (the believer) will be left. [Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.”] And they asked Him, “Where, Lord?” He answered, “Where the corpse is, there the vultures will be gathered.”” ‭‭~ Luke‬ ‭17:35-37‬ ‭AMP‬‬

@@JDRusse11 well then let’s hear your view

The Pope is getting pretty darn close, but the Lawless one may come from a Jesuit order. Their in control right now from what it seems

Why do you believe in Pre-Trib?

@@Kubs777 Because that’s what the Bible says! 😊

@@tracyellis5147 - Believe pre-trib if you wish, but please prepare for post-trib. You don't lose anything by preparing for post-trib if you're right. If you're wrong and rapture is post-trib, you'll still be spiritually and physically prepared for what is to come as God had said in the Bible to endure unto the end, even unto death. If not, you and your family might not be able to withstand what's about to come against Christians.

Tracy Ellis Hi. I'm a post-trib believer. It's amazing that you and I can come to a different view on this topic! I read the Bible too. I also look at the Bible and what it says. We shouldn't knit pick words. Also, yes only time will tell, and whatever belief about the rapture (pre, mid or post, has nothing to do with salvation). Those are two different topics. Truth in the scriptures SHOULD matter and the Bible clearly speaks the truth, which you agree, right? Let me just ask... WHY do you believe in a pre-trib rapture? I'll share with you why I believe in a post trib rapture.

@@tracyellis5147 Can you share where in the Bible the Rapture happens before Tribulation?

Ur right so I don’t know what he’s talking about that’s why we read our selves the Bible n we ask Jesus to help us understand what he is saying when we don’t understand it n he will. I know this for sure what ur saying is what I believe in what God has said ur right we the church the believers in Christ who we excepted n confessed by mouth n repented the church is not appointed to his wrath he said it n that he will come for us in Christ to remove us before the the 7 year tribulation Christ won’t touch ground when he comes for his church but when we come back with Jesus he will touch ground he will come back with his saints his army to fight the devil a war that which we won already. The great tribulation is Armageddon which all countries will gather in Megiddo. The center of the world 🌎 is Jerusalem. This is what I’ve read n understand n believe. People don’t understand he was here already but died on the cross n rose on the 3rd day n he said he will come for us 2 coming for his church the believers in Jesus Christ the 3 rd time is it . It’s a return with us n those who were left behind has a chance still if they survived his wrath. But I know that we will not be here to know whose the anti christ r the mark n the 7 year tribulation. That’s explained n the movie left behind follows that .

@@mariamorrison2474 Hi. We WILL be raptured! I believe that too. I'm not sure where you are getting some of your beliefs from. Please share with me where the Bible says that those that call upon Jesus will be saved in some pre-tribulation rapture? Forgive me for asking, but WHERE or WHO are your learning that belief from, Maria? I can share with you the scriptures in the Bible that says the Dead will rise First ( 1 Thess 4:13-18 ), and that the dead rise on the Last Day, At the Resurrection ( John 6:37-44 and 54, as well as John 11:23, 24 ). There are other supporting scriptures, Maria that tell of this clearly. Maria, if you have a Bible, read these scriptures for yourself. Or, I'm guessing since you responded to my comment, you have the internet. Find a site that you can read certain scriptural references for yourself. If you discover what I said was true, and you still need more, then compare other scriptures with these. Remember, the Dead Rise FIRST, and on the Last Day. That is the foundation, when understanding the rapture. I used to believe in something else, and some others, until I read the scriptures myself. God Bless you with understanding. Michael.

@@mariamorrison2474 , Maria, that is NOT Correct, as that verse speaks of the LAST DAY Battle of ARMAGEDDON, where One will be Taken in DEATH, and One will be LEFT to Live !! It has NOTHING to Do with Any Rapture, as Such Rapture cannot happen until the LAST DAY ( Se my other Comments here ) Morgan Sorensen ( Biblical Theologian )

@@mariamorrison2474 , Maria, read my other Comments here on this page. What you or I believe, does Not Amount to a "Hill of Beans" !! It is what gods Word Declares, that is of Importance !! 2. Jn. 9 declares; ..."He that Transgresseth and Abideth NOT in the DOCTRINE of CHRIST, Hath Not GOD". If you chose to believe the "Pre-Trib" RAPTURE LIE, then You DO NOT ABIDE in the DOCTRINE of CHRIST, and You have NOT GOD !! It does Not Depend upon your Belief, But if Your BELIF is ANCHORED in the ROCK, the Word of the Living GOD !! Isa.8:20, declares it This way; ...."To the LAW and the TESTIMONY, If They Speak NOT According to THIS WORD, It is Because there is NO LIGHT in Them". Morgan Sorensen ( Biblical Theologian )

The First Resurrection will occur at the Sounding of the 7th Trumpet before the Bowls of Wrath are poured out. “The seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven saying, The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign forever and ever.” ‭‭~ Revelation‬ ‭11:15‬ ‭CSB‬‬

It is worrying.

if annointed by God's wisdom you'll know the difference, no way God would allow his flock to fall prey to such deception if blessed

@@plasteredbastard the reason why post-tribbers believe there's going to be a post-tribulation rapture and why they think that they can endure the tribulation Is that they downplay the severity of the tribulation. If they will only come to realize that the severity of the tribulation is way beyond anything they could ever lmagine then, perhaps they may realize, and come to understand that the beginning of the tribulation is the beginning of the destruction of this world.

what worrying is you believing that you can endure the tribulation in the sinful and weak body you're in with the Devil unrestrained.

no bro you can never be plucked from the fathers hand once your saved you are sealed with the holy spirit. just because there pre trib doesnt mean they can EVER be decieved into taking the mark you make no sense

Song Kocourek, the coming judgment of Christ will happen before his second coming! His coming judgment is a single, private event that will not coincide with his second coming, but will occur immediately after the rapture! Jesus said they knew not until the flood came and destroyed them all. Mathew 24:39 Luke 17:27. "THEY KNEW NOT". This means, that they knew not of his coming judgment until the very day, and Jesus said in Luke 17:30 even thus shall it be in the day when the son of man is revealed. This suggests that the day is coming when the wrath of God will be revealed from Heaven suddenly, and unexpectedly and the world will not know of that day until it comes. Jesus said as it was in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage until the day that Noah entered into the ark. That's how the days were like that led to his judgment. But the days that are going to be leading up to his second coming are going to be days of great tribulation, unlike the days that led to the flood/judgment.

Why then does the Bible say that everyone who does not worship the beast or his image will be killed. You understand what the word everyone means ...right? It means everyone, no exceptions.

Amen we are not Israel we are the bride of Christ and he will save us from the wrath of God

AMEN! 40 years in the desert 🌵… They suffered in slavery and they suffered in the dessert. Yet He provided Manna from Heaven…

@@shaneydavy16 such a common misconception. The word Saints are all throughout the book of Revelation. Saints are believers in Christ. Which makes it clear that The Saints are present during the series of end time judgements and tribulations.

It is impossible to even begin to comprehend the severity of the tribulation. Yet so many of us think that we can by believing we can endure it.

I can’t be clearer!

So many pastors that teach a pre trib rapture do not teach Matthew 24. Clearly states Jesus only returns AFTER the Tribulation. Beware of these false teachers who teach a pre rapture.

@@ladyb6513 that is Jesus' return. where does it say He returns in the rapture. it will take place in the blink of an eye, most will not be ready for it. the tribulation saints are those left behind, preaching the word, to become the elect that make it thru, that escape the wrath of the Lord. i for one dont want to miss it, i believe it happens before💓💕💞

@@ladyb6513 God bless you! You’re absolutely right, they like to say that Matthew 24 is only for the Jews, that’s totally wrong.

So many pastors just overlook Matthew 24. They pick out different scriptures out of context to try to fit their narrative.

That’s right. We ARE living in the very last part of what 2tim 3:1-5 talks about. Our time of today. We seen all the signs and so many prophecies have been already filled Now Jesus could return any day But we STILL have not yet seen the real time of trouble for Christians that the Bible mentions. When tribulation breaks out, then we’ll know suffering We will be enemies of the world and put through a fire of trial and persecution. But then Jesus will intervene and stop the authorities from persecuting us

@@user-cf9np9cy8q "But then Jesus will intervene and stop the authorities from persecuting us." Not true! We'll be persecuted mightily. We're told this in Revelation.

there will be a huge terrible event that causes the world to see the antichrist as the one who can save us all. what better event than millions of ppl going missing? 💓💕💞

I agree with you it's so sad that many dont study scriptures they misinterpret it according to what they believe pre-trib is Biblical

It’s nice to know that his Trillions of Books📚 will all burn up🔥, but the Word of the Lord will endure forever. (1 Pet 1:25)

,@@JDRusse11 you believe you can endure the tribulation in this already condemned and rejected world, living in that mortal sinful, and weak body you're in with the Devil running loose.

@@garvinsmith4555The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead lives in both you and I, so yes I believe I can endure. “And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, then He who raised Christ from the dead will also bring your mortal bodies to life through His Spirit who lives in you.” ‭‭~ Romans‬ ‭8:11‬ ‭HCSB‬‬

Happy Holy-----.There is very much confusion about what the Bible says and what it doesn't. What is the TRUE Gospel?. Ask 100 people and get 100 different answers.Tell them the Truth, 'noone' believes in it. Not liking what is going to happen when the TRUTH become known. Think it's bad now?, wait till then when they know that they were lied to, and 'forget' that they made the decision to follow.

Sadly, too many "Christians" have a low view of scripture, never read their bibles, have never read it through from Genesis to Revelation even once, but somehow, they have come to the conclusion that Jesus is a wife beating, wife hating Groom. The entire Tribulation is the Wrath of the Lamb and The Wrath of God showered down on a God hating, Jesus rejecting world. The WORLD has always killed Christians and they have suffered throughout history for the name of Jesus Christ and for the truth of God, but God nor Jesus shower Christians with their wrath. A careful study of Revelation reveals that the different groups of saints have different duties. Such as the ones in Chapter 5 of Revelation will rule with Christ on Earth, the ones in Chapter 7 serve at the throne of God. The ones in Chapter 5 were ransomed by Jesus and the ones in Chapter 7 had to wash their robes in His blood. It's the minutiae that everyone overlooks. But we pre-trib people will be waving at the rest of you as we all rise to MEET JESUS IN THE AIR!! The 2nd coming HE COMES PHYSICAL AND TOUCHES THE MOUNT OF OLIVES which splits in two!

EXACTLY....

Guys, there's proof that the tribulation and the Lord's wrath are the same. As post-tribbers you believe that the Rapture will only occur at the second coming of Christ! But what you have failed to take into account is the fact that the days that lead to the second coming of Christ are going to be days of the great tribulation Mathew 24:21,22 which means it will be impossible for the people living in those days to be eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage which will have to happen if there's to be a post-tribulation Rapture. Jesus said just as the people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage up until the very Day the Lord shut righteous Lot and his family in the Ark the people again will be eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage up until the Day he Rapture the righteous away. The very fact that the people won't be eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage during the time of the tribulation proves that the possibility of a post-tribulation Rapture never truly existed. This means there's truly going to be a pre-tribulation Rapture which also means that the beginning of the tribulation is also the beginning of the Day destruction. And if you think that the people will be able to do those things during the days of tribulation, think again! Because the people won't be able to eat or drink as well as the people did in the days before the flood because of widespread food and drink shortages caused by severe famine and droughts such as the world has ever known. It's going to be a time when the people's number one priority is staying alive, and when marrying and giving in marriage may just be the farthest thing from their minds because of the unprecedented death rate. People will be dying so fast that if those days are shortened not even the elect will be saved.

Exactly. Funny how he claimed it was a "plain text reading" that brought him to his conclusions. I have never known of anyone that came to that conclusion (pre-trib) without preconceived ideas.

his " elect" are the Jews who survive the tribulation. The deciples were not asking about the Church here. We the Church are not the elect in this Matt. account Jews are elect here. Jesus was talking to Jews about Jewish questions and about the temple and events in Jerusalem. Please note: Jesus was talking about Jewish stuff in all of Matt chapters 23,24,25 so the Church is not the topic of discussion here. This makes perfect sense given that the rapture and the Church were mysteries that were revealed by Paul long after Jesus died. This time frame in Matt, cannot be talking about a topic that has not yet been in historical events in time. Please check for yourself and don't just take my word for it. Rapture in Matt, 23,24,25 completely debunked on this point alone. Nothing pre-conceived here at all just plain scripture and historical timing of scripture. Again this is not a salvation issue but honest clear interpretation of timing of events.

Isn't the coming of the son of man in Mathew 24:38,39 and the coming of the son of man in Mathew 24:27 inconsistent with each other? It seems so to me! For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the Ark, "AND KNEW NOT" until the flood came and took them all away, so shall also the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:38,39. For as the lightning cometh out of the East, and shineth even unto the West, so shall also the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27. Didn't Jesus say they knew not until the flood came and took them all away and so shall also the coming of the son of man be? His coming here seems sudden and unexpected to me! It seems to me that, that coming was in secret unlike his coming in Mathew 24:27 where his coming will be like the lightning flashing from the East to the West when he'll be coming in the clouds of heaven with Power and great Glory. This sounds very public to me. It even seems to me that the lifestyle of the people who are going to be living in the days before his second coming is going to be different from the lifestyle of the people that were living in the days that were before the flood as well. Meaning, having a lifestyle of eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, and living life in a time of great tribulation Mathew 24:21,22. Sounds very different to me!

@@garvinsmith4555 What?

I watched some videos about Pastors James Kaddis and Andy Woods on a Channel called ACT OF MERCY. Something is amiss with them.

TheMasterIsComing# kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qK17ecenvdbdh5c.html GetReadyBeReady

@Liberty family are you saying something is off with these two lecturers?? I’m not familiar with them … What did your Pastor do ?? Caught with pants down … molesting a child .. what ?

@Liberty family shut up … what I asked is SO common …

@@breadoflife2075 Andy Woods is probably the most detailed teacher of God's Word I have ever heard. James Kaddis, drives me a little nuts . . . kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rtyhlappx7bReI0.html

Agreed no argument here, the second coming and the rapture are the same event.i believe those that think they'll be taken away to escape the tribulation, will be the ones that fall away when they have to endure the tribulation

Well said PRAISE JESUS CHRIST

just try to endure the tribulation in that weak, and sinful body you're in with the Devil on the loose and you will know what falling away is all about.

the Lord's second coming and the rapture are not the same events as you have been made to believe. But his coming judgment and the rapture are! His coming judgment and the rapture are events that will come seven years before his second coming, and they will happen suddenly, and unexpectedly Just as Jesus said they would! In Mathew 24:39 and Luke 17:27 Jesus said, they knew not until the flood came and destroyed them all. "THEY KNEW NOT"! This means that they knew not of his coming judgment until that very day, and Jesus said in Luke 17:30 even thus shall it be in the day when the son of man is revealed. This suggests that the day is coming when the wrath of God will suddenly, and unexpectedly be revealed from heaven, and the world will not know of that day until it comes. This is why his second coming, his coming judgment, and the rapture cannot be the same events. The Lord's second coming alone is going to be a public event!

*1-Thess 4* ^14-15 Coming [parousia] of the Lord with those who died in Christ ^16 (first) Resurrection [anastasis] ^17 *Then* ... Rapture [harpazo*] *harpagésometha = shall be seized

You must understand the context of the writing to understand what is being said. Paul is writing to a church suffering from tremendous persecution, which he mentions in 1st Thess. They all think that they have missed the rapture because of the level of persecution. So Paul reassures them that if they had missed the rapture, they would be seeing the revelation of the antichrist, the fake miracles, the total corruption of what is called "the church" ( Catholics, Anglicans, United etc.) and the mass delusion...but none of them have seen these things so they haven't missed the rapture. Notice a key difference here between "the day of the Lord" and "the day of Christ". The day of the Lord is the O.T. version of the Tribulation...this is how THEY understood it. The "day of Christ" is the day of the rapture, when Christ gathers all believers alive and dead to himself in the air that's what Paul was "reminding "them of , because he had already explained the rapture to them before.

There is a difference between the Rapture and Jesus' Second Coming- The Gloriously Appearing. Jesus well not come back- Down on Earth (to rule , set up His kingdom) until after the anti- Christ- man of lawlessness appears.

@@serendipity3218 I've been considering this text: Titus 2:11-13 NKJV - "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly *in the present age,* *looking FOR the blessed hope* and *GLORIOUS APPEARING of* our great God and Savior Jesus Christ," As we live righteously, *in this present age (NOW),* we ought to be *LOOKING FOR the blessed hope.* It describes THAT *blessed hope* as *the GLORIOUS APPEARING of Jesus Christ.* 1Peter 5:4 KJV - "And when the chief Shepherd *shall appear,* ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away." 1John 3:2 KJV - "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, *when he shall appear,* WE *shall be like him;* for we shall see him as he is. 1John 2:28 KJV - "And now, little children, abide in him; that, *when he shall appear,* we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him *AT HIS COMING."* *When he shall appear,* & we be before Him, is *AT HIS COMING.* Colossians 3:4 KJV - "When Christ, who is our life, *shall appear,* THEN shall ye also appear with him *in glory."* Matthew 16:27 KJV - "For the Son of man shall come in the GLORY of his Father with his angels;* and THEN *HE shall reward every man according to his works."* Mark 8:38 KJV - "Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, WHEN *HE COMETH in the GLORY of his Father WITH the holy angels."* Luke 9:26 KJV - "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, WHEN *he shall COME in his own GLORY, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels."* Matt. 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-27; Rev. 6:12-17 describe what happens concerning His COMING & APPEARING. YAH be with you.

nobody is coming

TheMasterIsComing# kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qK17ecenvdbdh5c.html GetReadyBeReady

@@SpeakDaTruth7 get the fk out of here be there

AMEN

He comes as a surprise only a thief to those of the world. He will come also as a thief to Christians who're are still in love with the world - that's what Christ warns about.

So do you think that the groom is going to drag his bride thru the coals so they can prove worthy of their free gift of salvation ? Really ? And where exactly did you read this ? Blessings to you bro

If you are truly saved it makes no difference which doctrine you believe. If you tell a person they will lose their salvation over their belief over the timing of the Rapture, then you are not demonstrating the love of Jesus. In fact you might be considered wicked. If you are truly born again....not mentally ascended then you are going in the rapture. Also, there is a huge difference between tribulation and Great tribulation. The last three years is what you appear to be referencing as my escape from. The Rapture timing is better left for those who rightly divide to discuss as an extra curricular study amongst fellow believers. See you in Glory, friend.

Sadly, too many "Christians" have a low view of scripture, never read their bibles, have never read it through from Genesis to Revelation even once, but somehow, they have come to the conclusion that Jesus is a wife beating, wife hating Groom. The entire Tribulation is the Wrath of the Lamb and The Wrath of God showered down on a God hating, Jesus rejecting world. The WORLD has always killed Christians and they have suffered throughout history for the name of Jesus Christ and for the truth of God, but God nor Jesus shower Christians with their wrath. A careful study of Revelation reveals that the different groups of saints have different duties. Such as the ones in Chapter 5 of Revelation will rule with Christ on Earth, the ones in Chapter 7 serve at the throne of God. The ones in Chapter 5 were ransomed by Jesus and the ones in Chapter 7 had to wash their robes in His blood. It's the minutiae that everyone overlooks. But we pre-trib people will be waving at the rest of you as we all rise to MEET JESUS IN THE AIR!! The 2nd coming HE COMES PHYSICAL AND TOUCHES THE MOUNT OF OLIVES which splits in two!

Sadly there are false doctrines that lead many Christians to fall away, something Christ warns about in Matthew 24, as well as other places.

@@kenklein9228 I'm not exactly sure what false doctrine you are referring to, but the rapture is a word from the Lord. I Thessalonians 4:13-18. If it is the timing of the rapture, than to each his own and we'll all find out soon enough.

It amazes me that learned theologians do not have the understanding to see that Matthew 24 is about Jesus talking to HIS people the jews. The church did not even exist at this time , except in God's mind, therefore the concept of the church was still a mystery to men. He quotes scripture from Daniel and we know that in reading these verses that the angel refers to Daniel's people. Who are Daniel's people - the Jews, the nation of Israel. It is so hard to understand that "he who is in Judea" should flee to the mountains ( of Judea) is referring to the people of the nation of Israel at that time. ( not christians and not the church). The words speak for themselves. This is so fundamental, that once this is understood the rest will make sense. The Word must be divided rightly. The end of days evangelism will be carried out by the Two Witnesses, the 144.000 jewish male virgins and the angel who will go through out the earth preaching the everlasting gospel, to them that dwell on the earth, to every nation, kindred, tongue and people. This is about Israel, and is Israels time to evegalise the world and to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord and say "blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord". The chuch has no place being here at this time. The church's time has finished, they were to preach the gospel of Grace and now that time is coming to a close, and Israels' time is beginning once again and this time the whole of the remnant of Israel will be saved.

@@gregnewberry1147 “saints” “church” was used but we weren’t known at the time.

Unbiblical theologian is more like it. We will be preaching the gospel to the world during the Tribulation??? How come the Bible says in revelation 14:6 that an angel is preaching the gospel and not the church? I would address the other heresies you mentioned but it's a waste of time because your problem is spiritual darkness...you are not a believer in the person and work of Jesus Christ.

Yes it does lol

And then the other question we had to ask the scholars is anybody that tries to predict the end of the world or events will not be able to get in heaven so why are they keep talking about this I’m just saying

Mathew 24 from verse 3 through 31 is for israel not the church proof of that is right in mathew 24 from verse 15 through 20 Jesus isn't talking to the church in those scriptures he is talking to the Jewish people

@@ericneering6357 jesus Paul john all taught about the end of the age you have to actually sit down and read the Bible to see that. And you cant say the Bible isnt accurate because the dead sea scrolls have confirmed the bibles ligetamency now the copies that the satanic roman catholic church controls have been changed but the copies not controlled by the Roman catholic church are accurate

There's 2 parts to his 2nd coming, just like there were 2 parts to his 1st coming after he rose to be with Father, he returned to Earth for 40 Days to be with his disciples.

@@Excalibur2112 yep like book ends

I'm taking it you're a Jew then because their the only ones guaranteed to make it through to the end and that's only 1/3 of them. 2/3s will die.

Yeah? You mean we've got to do something to earn it? What does the Bible say..."By GRACE are you saved through FAITH and not of yourselves lest any man should boast" ?

The easiest reading deceives. Deep reading tells us it isnt soon. Exodus 32:1 make this clear as do many other verses. In fact it gets better than that. The Bible actually tells us not only will it be a "long time" before Jesus returns but that it will be 2000 years.

Correct. The easiest reading is when Christ is speaking directly to you and I in the Olivet Discourse, not unbelieving Jews. Dispensationalism causes Christians to ignore Christ's clear words, putting them at extreme risk for ending up like the foolish virgins in Matthew 25.

In this generation seems to mean the generation that witnesses the signs he is talking about, not the generation standing around him at the time. Daniel was a sealed book. It is likely that all theories so far are wrong and only new theories or theories at the end times will be correct because the Spirit unseals them for the believers in the end times. One theory is revelation 4-11 and revelation 12-15:5 are the same vision. And the 7 church letters correspond to the 7 seals and they are instructions for the end times, specifically each church letter is instructions for each time a seal is broken open. The 6th seal is the rapture of the church and the 144,000 are saved and taken up first fulfilling the last saved are the fist into heaven. See Nelson Walters on youtube. He lays it out and it is now the simplest most straight forward theory I have seen yet. All that being said prepare for the worst

Pure trib rapture is not biblically sound. Search the Bible and your heart and you will see the truth. God bless.

Eating, drinking, buying, selling, planting, building, and getting married convinced me there is a pre-trib rapture. The wicked will be caught off guard (Matt 24:39). Just prior to the second coming is famine, drought, hyperinflation, mark of the beast, violent heat, storms, earthquakes, gigantic meteorites, and the sun goes dark, instead of building and planting, and love will grow cold instead of weddings. At the end, everbody knows what is going and is hiding in a cave (Rev 6:15-17) and freaking out (Luke 21:26). Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a resurrection. We leave our flesh on earth (verse 37). 1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming with the one and only resurrection for the saints (John 6:39-54, 11:24, Rev 20:4-6, 1 Cor 15:52) on the last day, last trump.

Simple answer, Jesus comes for all who belong to Him after the tribulation. Rev12v17 is the church

The ones who understand why they did not go with others in the Rapture and converts to Christianity and GOD // The Marters are those who the godless anti-christ catches and cuts their head off .... But there are those who escape and are here when GOD returns ..

@@lindasabousky3815 Sister you are mistaken... Pre trib is a false teaching that goes directly against the gospel, God says such people are cursed and we should not listen to them Gal 1 8-9 The sacrifice of Christ benefits all truly repentant sinners who have sincere faith and trust in Christ, but this benefit is conferred as God automatically baptizes all true believers in the Holy Spirit, which places them "into" the Body of Christ (1Cor.12:13) and that "Body" is the Church (Eph.1:22,23), with the result that all believers are "IN Christ" (2Cor.5:17). Being "in Christ" is the place of justification (Gal.2:17), redemption and forgiveness of sins (Eph.1:7). What's more, Paul teaches that a person who is in the body of Christ, has died to the requirements and condemnation of the OT law (Rom. 7:4,6) and thus, anyone who is not in the body of Christ remains condemned by the law (Rom.2:12 ; Gal.3:10-11 ; Jas.2:10). There is no other place, than in Christ's body, for those spiritual transactions in the NT. It will only be people "in Christ" (and in his body), who have been crucified with him, who have died and been burried with him, and are made alive with him (read Rom.6:1-10). For anyone to be saved, God places Jews or Gentiles "in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross" (Eph.2:16)... and that one body of reconciliation is the Church (Eph.1:22-23). There will never be any other way to justification, reconciliation to God, redemption, resurrection and eternal life, than by being "IN Christ," which is in his body the Church ...and anything else is another way of salvation (and really, another gospel) than is found in the Bible. It would take some major explaining to tell how a person could be "in Christ" but not in his body (the Church). If the tribulation saints are not in Christ's body, then how are they saved? Consider especially verses like Romans 12:5, which says, "so in Christ we who are many form one body." Paul says explicitly there that being "in" Christ means being in his "body", and he uses those two ideas as being inseparable. Biblical Christianity can never advance any other way of justification and redemption, other than being "IN Christ." So, the pre-trib notion of a group of "tribulation saints" who are saved and redeemed during the tribulation, but yet are not part of the body of Christ (the Church), is actually a contradiction in terms, which rests on very shabby theology that undermines the biblical doctrine of salvation. The true situation during the tribulation will be: there will be Spirit-baptized saints who are "washed ...in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev.7:14), so, they are blood-bought and justified saints; they will be born-again Christians "who obey God's commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus" (Rev.12:17), and who "remain faithful to Jesus" (Rev.14:12). And very crucial for this discussion: note those saints who "die IN the Lord" during the Great Tribulation (see Rev.14:12-13 with 6:9-11) ...remembering from our previous discussion, that being "in the Lord," or "in Christ," is precisely the NT description of a believer who is part of the Church, the body of Christ! Thus, there is no possible way that these tribulation "saints" can not part of the Church. They must be. The corporate body of Christ first came into being when believers were first baptized in the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost (Acts 1:5 & 2:1-4). Since then, every true believer is automatically placed into the body of Christ by the Baptism in the Holy Spirit (1Cor.12:13), so that all believers are "in Christ" (and this must since the Acts 2 day of Pentecost include all Old Testament saints, as well as tribulation saints). Redemptive union with Christ, in his body (the Church), has always been God's plan for all believers of all ages. Paul says that Jesus is the Savior of "his body" (Eph.5:23), and it would take some major explaining to show that he is the Savior of anybody else. Anybody who is not part of the body of Christ, therefore, will not be saved. Jew or Gentile, there is no other provision in all of eternity for the salvation of sinners other than by being in the body of Christ. So, unavoidably, since there are saved people on earth during the tribulation, the body of Christ, the Church, must be present on earth at that time. Since the "Church" is clearly on earth during the Tribulation, there is no reason to say that the Church is evacuated just before the Tribulation begins. Obviously, those who "die in the Lord" during the tribulation will be part of Christ's body, the Church, and they too (like all who are in Christ) will rise at the first resurrection and be raptured (1 Thess.4:16-18). Thus, the rapture must follow the tribulation, during which those tribulation saints "die IN the Lord."

@@lindasabousky3815 was Jesus lying when He stated He would come for ALL on the last day, and raise ALL on the last day? of course not. I will trust the word of God not a 1832 latter day teaching of pre trib. Scripture does not contradict scripture, only false teachings do... i was once fooled by satans pre trib trap as well until i really studied and found truth. John 6:39 English translation And this is the will of the Father who sent me, that everyone who He gave me - I shall lose none of him, but rather, I shall raise him on the last day. Textus Receptus (Estienne, 1550) τοῦτο δέ ἐστιν τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντός με πατρός, ἵνα πᾶν ὃ δέδωκέν μοι μὴ ἀπολέσω ἐξ αὐτοῦ ἀλλὰ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸ ἐν τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ John 6:40 English Translation And this is the will of Him who sent me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him has eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day. Textus Receptus (Estienne, 1550) τοῦτο δὲ ἐστιν τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πέμψαντος με, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ θεωρῶν τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐγὼ τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ John 6:44 English Translation No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I shall raise him on the last day. Textus Receptus (Estienne, 1550) οὐδεὶς δύναται ἐλθεῖν πρός με ἐὰν μὴ ὁ πατὴρ ὁ πέμψας με ἑλκύσῃ αὐτόν καὶ ἐγὼ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ John 6:54 English Translation He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day. Textus Receptus (Estienne, 1550) τρώγων μου τὴν σάρκα καὶ πίνων μου τὸ αἷμα ἔχει ζωὴν αἰώνιον καὶ ἐγὼ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ

@@issuesthatmatter2825 It appears that many interpret the gospels diff and GOD told us all would be explained when we got to Heaven...... I believe what I read and hear are true and others - there way ... I have Bible verses underlined and feel I am right and you feel you are right... That is OK -- GOD will explain the actual truth and way when we arrive in front of HIM.....

Exactly. Christ spends a great deal of time in the Olivet Discourse telling us what to expect in the years before His appearing; birth pangs first (which include a falling away), then the GT, which is not long on the horizon. We'll be here for the Great Tribulation unless we die first. Time to get ready, God's way.

The resurrection is on the last day, last trump (John 6:39-54, 11:24, 1 Cor 15:52, Rev 20:4-6). Therefore 1 Thes 4 is the second coming at the end of the grreat tribulation. Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a resurrection. We leave our flesh on earth (verse 37). Life is normal (eating, drinking, etc.), then there is a flash of light and our spirit/soul is taken to heaven just like natural death. Life is not normal (famine, drought, etc.) at the end of the age. Most are hiding in caves (Rev 6:15-17) and freaking out (Luke 21:26).

@@onetakendotnet Do you have a Scripture passage for a spirit rapture and leaving bodies of the Saints behind? This is not part of the preTrib Rapture doctrine. The Luke passages are parallel verses to Matthew 24. They are referencing the desolation of the Temple, City and House of Israel by Messiah, as happened in 70 AD. The first to be taken on the Day of the Lord (aka the Harvest), will be the wicked, the ones left will be the righteous. Matthew 13:30,38-39,41-43 KJV *Let both grow together until the harvest:* and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, *Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them:* _but gather the wheat into my barn._ [38] The field is the world; _the good seed are the children of the kingdom;_ *but the tares are the children of the wicked one ;* [39] ... *the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.* [41] The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and *they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;* [42] *And shall cast them into a furnace of fire:* there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. [43] *Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.* _Who hath ears to hear, let him hear._ Notice that God destroyed the wicked on *THE SAME DAY* He rescued Noah and Lot, not years apart. He'll do it the same way on the day He comes. Luke 17:27,29 KJV _They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until_ *the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.* [29] _But_ *the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.*

All of the tribulation is the wrath of God.

@@gregmatz3693 no

@@Mixedshortsai Rea Revelation 6 and the opening of the first scroll. Who opens the first seal? The Lamb who is Jesus Christ himself. If Jesus is God, then all of the tribulation is the wrath of God not just part of it. The wrath of God is described in different ways.

Job 14 12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. John 6 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 1 Corinthians 15: 51-52 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Dan. 12 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. John 5 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. .

@Last Day Saint James so according to the Bible. The rapture happens After the tribulation. Why do most people believe this Not to be the case?

@@jawmedia7575 THAT IS THE QUESTION OF THE MILLENNIUM. DENIAL DECEPTION DELUSION LACK OF KNOWLEDGE LAZINESS NO LOVE FOR THE TRUTH DOUBT UNBELIEF REJECTING THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH antichrist IN THEIR TEMPLE INSTEAD OF GOD EDIT: FEAR

I'm with you. It happens immediately after the Great Tribulation just before God pours out His wrath (the bowls).

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it. The Capitol "C" Church, as we use the word today, is not found in the entire Book of Revelation. Individual church bodies in ancient Asia Minor are found. In Revelation 12:11 we find those under the blood of the Lamb. A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ. Verse 12 of this passage proves at least part of the tribulation period is the wrath of Satan upon the people of God. Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. "It may come as a surprise to most pre-Trib prophecy students that the post-Trib position (in its primitive form) is the oldest point of view." The quotation above is from the book "Will You Escape The Tribulation? RAPTURE [Under Attack]", by Tim LaHaye, copyright 1998, Page 197. The gathering of the Church is described at the end of 1 Thess. Chapter 4, and the timing of the event is found in chapter 5. The word “But” in the first verse of chapter 5 connects the two chapters, and the words “we” and “sleep” in verse 10 of chapter 5 prove the two chapters are connected.

Sandra, What these "Pseudo Scholars" present here in this Above Video, is PURE Heresy, and Not at all Biblical !! Read your own KJV Bible, on 1.Thess,4:15-17, and ask yourself if; ... "We that are Alive and REMAIN" are said to "Not PRECEDE those that are Asleep in Jesus" ( the "DEAD In CHRIST" that "RISE FIRST" of verse 16 ) And that verse 16 declares that these "DEAD In CHRIST RISE FIRST", which if your BRAIN is Working, will tell you that the Tribulation MARTYRS "Must Be" part of These DEAD In "CHRIST That RISE FIRST", .....And Rev.20:4 Tells you that these MARTYRS are NOT Resurrected to LIFE , until the LAST DAY of the TRIBULATION !! Then Obviously these TWO BOZO's on this Video above here, Are LYING Through their TEETH !! Especially when you consider the Next, and 17th Verse, which declares that; ...."We that are LIVE and REMAIN will be CAUGHT-UP," ( that means "RAPTURED ) "Together with THEM" !! ( that means, "at that SAME TIME", Together with these "DEAD IN CHRIST that RISE FIRST", which Must include the MARTYRS of the TRIBULATION Period. Sandra, even a "Fifth Grader", that reads His or Her Bible, and Not having been "Indoctrinated" by "SPIRITUAL CEMETERIES" called SEMINARIES, can UNDERSTAND This TRUTH !! Morgan Sorensen ( Biblical Theologian )

The resurrection is on the last day, last trump (John 6:39-54, 11:24, 1 Cor 15:52, Rev 20:4-6). Therefore, 1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming at the end of the grreat tribulation. However, Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a resurrection. We leave our flesh on earth (verse 37). Life is normal pre-trib (eating, drinking, etc.), then there is a flash of light and our spirit/soul is taken to heaven just like natural death. Life is not normal (famine, drought, etc.) at the end of the age. Most are hiding in caves (Rev 6:15-17) and freaking out (Luke 21:26).

I agree. He will prepare each of His children individually. Some Christians He will decide won't see death and will prevent anyone killing them. Others will die enduring for Him unto death. Either way, He is preparing them both. I personally think I'm going to die, but I'm okay with that. To me, death is "absent from the body, present with the Lord." I don't know whether I'll be conscious or not - I'd rather be conscious when I'm with Him, but if I'm asleep until the resurrection, I'm fine with that too.

NO -- when GOD feels it is enough -- Then the War of Armageddon starts and GOD kills many sinners but saves the converted Christians ... At least this is what I understand

You're overthinking, it just means the tribulation is only 7 years of 360 days the Jewish calendar is 360 days. The world could not survive that kind of supernatural activity for more than God has decreed. Everything is about the Jews and the Tribulation is their final 7 years that God established for them. Go back to Daniel Chapter 12. You have to study Daniel and Revelation together.

@@rebeccarussell3091 Sorry, with due respect, I am not getting any LOGICAL and REASONABLE answer to all of this... Why will God establish 7 years of Tribulation for the Jews as you claimed that comes from the Book of Daniel, if God knew no one will survive for 7 years, that is why in Matthew Gospel, God will cut it short or be shortened the Time Duration for the sake of the ELECT (People of God)... The Book of Revelation and Matthew's Gospel never mentioned nor specified the 7 years Tribulation Period... but mentioned 3-1/2 years (1260 days) the Anti-Christ and the beast will reign... and 3-1/2 years (1260) also the 2 Witnesses of God will preach before they are defeated/killed by the Beast/anti-Christ who ruled for 3-1/2 years also... Is this 7-year Tribulation just an ASSUMPTION or a FACT???... Does this mean that at the end of the 3-1/2 years (1260 days) of the 2 Witnesses of God, they will be killed by the Beast/Anti-Christ that starts the Apostasy/Son of Perdition is revealed and the start of the reign of the Beast and Anit-Christ for 3-1/2 years (1260 days) for the total of 7 years Tribulation Period? Now, where is the SHORTENED PERIOD that will occur that was mentioned in Matthew's gospel 24:22 in the 7 years Tribulation time duration based in the Book of Daniel???

@@jvlp2046 What is meant by "shortened period" is that the sin of man deserves a much longer punishment, but God is the time master and He has deemed 7 years for the Wrath of the Lamb and the Wrath of God, which begins in Chapter 6 of Revelation with the opening of the first seal.

Here is an in-depth study of the rapture and all the views. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rtyhlappx7bReI0.html

The resurrection is on the last day, last trump (John 6:39-54, 11:24, 1 Cor 15:52, Rev 20:4-6). Therefore, 1 Thes 4:13-17 is the second coming at the end of the grreat tribulation. However, Luke 17:22-37 is the pre-trib rapture without a resurrection. We leave our flesh on earth (verse 37). Life is normal pre-trib (eating, drinking, etc.), then there is a flash of light and our spirit/soul is taken to heaven just like natural death. Life is not normal (famine, drought, etc.) at the end of the age. Most are hiding in caves (Rev 6:15-17) and freaking out (Luke 21:26).

Nope pre trib is false

@@aquila813apologetics3ik

We will escape into Heaven. If you miss the Rapture, then YOU AREN'T SAVED!!!!!!!!

They likely will. Christ warned of a falling away which occurs during the birth pangs. Any of us who don't spiritually prepare for the coming times will very likely fall away.

Because we who are ALIVE AND REMAIN are caught up, not RESURRECTED. Alive are changed...

@@CowboysFan777 Remember Paul said the dead in Christ rise first, then we who are alive and remain get caught. So that would have to be the resurrection of the church, right? The we are all caught up. But Rev. 20 says the first resurrection consists of those killed by the Beast. Hmmm. So where is the pretrib rapture in that?

@@Mike65809 A full resurrection is where 100% dead are raised. None are "alive and remain". The saints in Revelation 20:4 LIVED, or a full resurrection. 100% DEAD come alive at once. The harpazo has 2000 years of fallen brothers and sisters in Christ, such as my grandparents, come WITH Jesus in the clouds. They get a resurrection because they sleep in Jesus. But we who are alive and remain shall be CHANGED!!!! we don't get a resurrection, because we aren't dead. We don't sleep in Jesus

@@CowboysFan777 Well you assume there are none that are alive and remain. I would conclude, since it is the "first" resurrection, it is the same one Paul referred to in 1 Thess. 4, and in many other places where the resurrection is mentioned. Look at 1 Cor. 15 that mentions the resurrection, but makes it clear we will not all sleep, but will all be changed. Even those alive (and remain) will receive a resurrected body, which is why he says we will all be changed. Amen?

@@Mike65809 ok look... im done. You get a bad theory, your brain stops functioning. You still want to argue about resurrections. Bye

No, the church of Christ is first raptured. Then next, mass chaos ensues & the antichrist THEN steps onto the world stage as "the man with the plan" to bring order, safety, etc.

@@michelleduncan9965 We will have to respectfully agree to disagree.☺️

Christians will endure persecution, not a rapture, and here is the proof: “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬ bible.com/bible/1/rev.7.9-14.KJV

@@michelleduncan9965 Amen!

Revelation 6 speaks about the 6th seal, when God's wrath is poured out. Part of the Tribulation is most definitely His wrath.

Catholic

Do a simple search for Pre-Tribulation Rapture taught before Darby and then stop posting this lie!!!!!! That is a Lie!!!

Yes

We’re halfway through it bud 😉

TheMasterIsComing# kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qK17ecenvdbdh5c.html GetReadyBeReady

Yes, Matthew 24:4-8 makes this abundantly clear. We are in the "beginning of sorrows" before the opening of the first seal. Revelation paints a detailed pictured of Daniel's 70th week. The harpazo of glorified believers in shown in Rev. 12:5 as the 'child' is "caught up to God and His throne.' The woman of Rev. 12 who represents Israel is pictured undergoing 'travail.' Travail was often used as a metaphor for war or conflict in the OT. Israel and Iran are now preparing for war. Israel has been conducting strikes around Damascus for the past year, and Isaiah 17:1 will soon be fulfilled.

Bad things are happening faster and bigger than ever before thats having an effect on the whole world .

No...remember what Daniels says "He will confirm a covenant for one week" but then he will break it halfway through...so the time of Jacob's trouble will be the last three and a half years of the Tribulation. Notice that in answering his disciples questions about this , in Mathew ch 24, Jesus starts his answer about the signs of his coming and Israel's persecution with the "abomination of desolation" as written in Daniel...so in Mathew ch 24 Jesus is confirming that the time of Jacob's trouble starts halfway through the Tribulation. Israel will be protected by the antichrist for the first three and a half years...that's when they will be under the witness of the 144,000 and the two witnesses. I recommend you watch Dr. David Hocking's You Tube series on the entire book of Daniel and Ezekiel and Revelation...I consider him to be the most knowledgeable teacher on Bible prophecy alive today...if you choose to do this , you will be amazed at the depth of his teaching.

John received the Revelation of Jesus Christ from Jesus himself...John taught his student Polycarp the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture...and Polycarp taught his student Irenaus the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture. Irenaeus went and wrote a book called "Against Heresy" which called out the heresies that had crept into the church...guess what one of those heresies was? The teaching by some that there is no pre-trib rapture. So whoever is telling you this nonsense that the pre-trib rapture is a relatively modern innovation in christianity, doesn't know what they are talking about. The early church believed it AND TAUGHT IT.

Rev 12v17 is the church, the woman's seed. Jesus will not come back for His church until after the tribulation. The only way anyone can ever be saved is to be in the one body of Christ which scripture says is the church

You will take the Mark. I guarantee it! God will send you a GREAT DELUSION in the Tribulation and you will be the 1st in line to take the Mark.

It takes a special kind of twisting scripture to come to a different conclusion. That's Dispensationalism for you.

@@kenklein9228 well I disagree. There is only one second comming.

@@chriswood7165 I'm agreeing with you - only one second coming. Dispensationalism is what perverts scripture into a pre trib rapture.

??

Did you say to believe in pre-trib is to say Jesus lied to the Apostles in Mathew 24? Well, perhaps you should have listened to his words more carefully! Jesus said himself that the days that lead to his second coming/judgment are going to be days of great tribulation Mathew 24:21,22. This means that it will be impossible for a certain prophecy he made to come to pass. He prophecies saying as the people in the days of Noah were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage up to the very day the Lord shut righteous Lot and his family in the Ark right before his judgment, the people again, will be eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage up to the day he raptures the righteous away before his judgment. This prophecy cannot come to pass in the time of the tribulation it wouldn't be feasible. The tribulation is going to be more horrible than anything the world has ever known. People are going to dying so fast that if those days are not shortened not even the elect will be saved. This means by the time the tribulation had begun this prophecy would have already been fulfilled. Which also tells me that the possibility of a post-tribulation rapture never did exist.

None of those defeat pre-trib...for example Mathew ch24 is about Jesus taking questions from his jewish disciples about jewish things...what will happen to ISRAEL , not the church. And notice how many jewish references Jesus gives in his answer to their questions ..."the abomination of desolation"..."the temple"..."the sabbath"..."the rooftops"..."the Judean countryside"..."the elect"...and "the fig tree'.

@@markanthony3275 Sure thing bub! You evidently did not read Matthew 24 verse 13 Matthew 24 verse 29 thru 31 , 2nd Thessalonians 2 verses 1 thru 11. Matthew Mark and Luke have the same message from Jesus . Then Paul the only other to mention what constitutes a rapture said that there has not already been a rapture and in the same message that the rapture ( gathering together to Jesus ) would not happen before the Antichrist was revealed . Now the Pretribbers are so worried about the Tribbulation that they interpret that the Christians will know who he is and that will be before anything starts to get bad . But, that scripture means the Antichrist will be revealed to all the world. Verse 8 of 2nd Thess. 2 says it plainly . The Antichrist will be revealed by the truth of his mouth and the Brightness of his coming. The fact is that we are looking the Great Tribulation in the Kisser now . I bet if I said the Globalist Jews were chosen to serve Satan , you would say the same old Jesus is a Jew . He was but God chose the Jews for a many different task he wanted completed . The AC will be a Jew by blood but he will not honor the God of his fathers ie Obama.

??

In the context of Mathew ch 24 the word "elect" means only the nation of Israel...why else would it be included in a bunch of other Jewish only references like "the abomination of desolation", "the temple", "the sabbath" , "the rooftops", "the Judean countryside", and "the fig tree" ? In Mathew ch 24 the word "elect" clearly does not mean the church.

@@markanthony3275 Nope. Christ used "Jewish" references because His first disciples were......Jewish. He used examples they'd readily understand. He didn't use Jewish references because He was preaching an earthly kingdom, and in fact, He never said He was.

The cross changed everything!!! If you can't see this... then you are just a wall colorer. You haven't studied anything

@@Pre-Tribulation The cross was planned from the beginning, and was the basis upon which all have been saved even before Christ died. The previous "dispensations" are what they are, but within Dispensationalism is also the insistence upon literal translation of all scripture, unless scripture says "hey, don't take this literally". That's a large part of what leads to such perversions as Christ and Paul having separate gospels, and the pre trib rapture. Absolute rubbish.

The Great Tribulation is Satan's wrath, not God's (Rev 12). God's wrath consists of the bowls (Rev 16), and we're raptured out immediately before the bowls are poured. We'll be here for the GT unless we die beforehand. Time for us to get ready, God's way.

The Last Day Resurrection is AFFFFFFTER the Millennium Age is complete, Revelation 20:5. It's a full resurrection on the Earth. We are part of the HARPAZO, which does have a resurrection, but it's up where the birds fly and the puffy clouds are, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.