We are in debt to whoever convinced them to!

But they kept on the original nominal clearance developed by BMW at 0,038mm. So I don't see too much difference from OEM 702/703 bearings. For me, BE bearings is still the gold standard.

@@UMORIEGAwhy?

What year?

We’re booking about a month ahead for rod bearing services! Thanks for the kind words

We have recently switched to 5W-50 Motul oil in our S65/85 rod bearing services.

colder weathers probably a 5w50

10w60 is perfectly fine, but you can also move to a 10w50 if you prefer.

We use ARP but OEM are also fine.

5w 50

This car had it changed, only the earlier cars without the updated line need it done.

@EvolveAutomotive that's not entirely true. I own a 2010 m6, and when we changed my rod bearing we found the vanos lines had started to leak. Either way, I still enjoyed your video. It's still very informing and I appreciate you making it. Great job

Respectfully disagree with the need to change main bearings. That’s also a total engine disassembly to carry out. In all our years have never heard of an engine failing and the cause being a main bearing.

@EvolveAutomotive Definitely a thing on the S65, not sure about s85, maybe not since it's a longer crank. This just happened to Speed Academy's (KZfaq Channel) M3 and they had just had the rod bearings done 3,000 KM prior by an experienced shop. I forget what the determined culprit is, but believe it had something to do with extra tension from the oil pump chain tugging on one side of the crank. Also noticed no plastigage on those bearings during installation to check proper clearances, due to any bearing, crank, or rod variations.

Dry sump is a massive undertaking and one that really changes the entire scope of the car to something much more track focused. Not an area I have a huge amount of experience in, but I’m not sure how much it would change it as it’s not an oil starvation issue to the oil pump pickup.

@@EvolveAutomotive ahhh, fair enough thanks for answering, I'm currently looking at a massive deal of an M6 with a full-service history and less than 90k miles, (rod bearings and smg pump recently replaced less than 500 miles ago) and want to do a nice build with as good reliability as I can get out of it, cost isn't much of a problem since it's a long term project and a secondary vehicle, but I don't want to do useless mods.

Look after it and warm it up correctly and the rod bearings will be the lease of your worries with an S85 😅

The tolerances of rod bearings are much smaller than piston skirts.. pistons are quite loose in comparison, with the slack picked up with piston rings

They do not unfortunately.

In the pdf "Copyright MAHLE Engine Systems UK Ltd Technical Information Motorsport Engine Bearings" they talk about motorsport bearings with trimetal layers, so no worries there :).

www.evolveautomotive.co.uk/products/mahle-motorsport-conrod-bearings-bmw-e60-e61-m5-e63-e64-m6-s85?_pos=1&_psq=s85+rod&_ss=e&_v=1.0

Currently only for S65/85, N/S55 and N/S63

They do yes, and it’s now what is in every Mr VANOS engine build

@@EvolveAutomotive Do they have increased clearance over the OEM ones? (like the BE bearings?).

They have used their proprietary software (the same one they use for F1 bearing design) to accurately model the requirements of the bearing and specify the clearances based on that data. The S65/S85 ones are specced to 55 microns of clearance.

Mr who

We’ve over the years discussed the issue at length with people who have a lot more knowledge on engine internals than we do, and of course without proper controlled scientific testing the true cause of the issue will never be known for certain, if it is even one factor (in our opinion it’s more likely many) As said in the video, if correctly looked after the OE bearings will last the lifetime of the vehicle, evidenced not only by our own 150k mile car but also a customer who has a car from new with over 230k miles on the original bearings. Mahle (actually Vandervall who were bought by Mahle) have huge experience in designing and manufacturing bearings, so with this bearing have not only carried out proper R&D which comes from processes learnt from F1/Endurance, but also then utilised their manufacturing process and it’s extremely tight tolerances and attention to detail to create what we believe to be the best bearing available for these cars. I mean they even go so far as to not stamp the numbers on the bearing but laser etch, as the stamping will cause raised spots on the bearing which then increase heat transfer in small areas which can attribute to increased bearing wear. Are we saying any other brand are bad? Of course not, because without proper first hand data from each one we aren’t in a position to say that. So if you have a personal preference of bearing material, clearance, coatings, brand, or even oil then go with that, it’s your car after all. We’re just sharing some knowledge that we have gained over the years from changing hundreds of not thousands of sets of bearings, and speaking to many experts within the industry.

Yea this, I put in a long detailed rely about this, but it got deleted :(

@@EvolveAutomotive You can't use an example of one car, or even a few dozen, that go over 100k as evidence that all S65s will be ok at that mileage, many won't, and many have already failed before that mileage over the years, and that's due in part at least to clearance variances. Also, Mahle increased the clearance with these new bearings of theirs, so that lends more evidence to the clearance issue the OEM bearings have. That said, the later tin/alu/copper bearings fared less worse than earlier OEM lead/copper ones, I've not seen one of the tin/alu/copper ones worn through to copper yet (after looking at 500+ photos of OEM bearings pulled! lol), and yes they do have copper! That said, seeing as your own M3 got to 150k with the earlier bearings, I'm sure it'll be just fine on the later OEM ones. Oh and a bearing worn down to copper is not ok, even if it didn't fail and seize. Once the copper is exposed their is a risk of seizure (as per the bearing manufacturers bearing construction pdf papers).

@@Assimilator1 I'm looking at a 2012 M3 with 89k miles, would either of you recommend changing the bearings?

@@ragnarlothbrok6324 Well, as I mentioned above it seems the later bearings are at a lesser risk of failure than the earlier ones, and certainly don't wear through the babbitt layer like the earlier ones. But they still don't wear at normal levels like a 'normal' engine would (high revving or not) and a small number have failed, if it were my car, with that mileage I'd change them anyway.

Just got the pilot sport 4s on mine. Game changer.

PS4S really are such a brilliant tyre, what we always recommend for a road use car.

@@tinorosmg9374 Amazing tyre, transforms the car. Many miles to enjoy!

Damaged crankshaft and metal shavings destroying your VANOS pump will make it 5 times more expensive than rod bearing job.

@@UMORIEGA What the... no valid point to that statement. The discussion youre missing is - why the fk play with aftermarket overhyped bling when OEM has already proven to do a fantastic job for nearly 20yrs of repeatedly withstanding yet another new wannabe-racer owner, more cold floggings, track days, KZfaq burnouts etc., and its done all this for more miles/kilometres than the car will travel in its remaining life. In short, the ARP & BE sheep online are regurgitating complete nonsense. Is that clearer enough ?

Crank hub you can get lucky and just need a retime and the hub changed, bearings go it’s already too late.

@EvolveAutomotive Does the Evolve stage 2 software keep the 02 monitor ready and leave the Catalyst monitor incomplete only?

Please email sales@evolveautomotive.com with what car you’re asking for and my colleague can help you, thank you