Experimental Remington-Keene: Preventing Magazine Detonations

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Forgotten Weapons

Forgotten Weapons

4 жыл бұрын

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This is a fascinating experimental Remington Keene rifle, build in an attempt to alleviate concerns about magazine tube detonation. With centerfire ammunition in a linear tube magazine, there was an ever-present (if very slim) risk of a bullet detonating the primer ahead that it was resting against. Remington’s experiment here was to add a second magazine of donut-like spacers to separate bullets from primers in the magazine. These spacers were manually inserted between cartridges when loading the rifle, and they were automatically returned home when cycling the action, so as to not be disposable items. The system was clearly too complex to be practical, and the move to box magazines removed the issue entirely before long.
Interestingly, this prototype was also designed to cock automatically when the bolt was closed, where the standard production Remington-Keene rifles head to be manually cocked.
Contact:
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Пікірлер: 227
@mrbismarck
@mrbismarck 4 жыл бұрын
"A dumb idea instituted only because the military insisted on it." That never happens.
@clintcannon1902
@clintcannon1902 4 жыл бұрын
The "Good Idea Fairy" strikes again!
@Hansengineering
@Hansengineering 4 жыл бұрын
slide mounted safeties
@johnm3907
@johnm3907 4 жыл бұрын
Forward assist
@RandomGuy9
@RandomGuy9 4 жыл бұрын
The 7,62x51mm instead of an intermediate round.
@prd6617
@prd6617 4 жыл бұрын
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine although Stoner opinion on that also valid tho
@Daemascus
@Daemascus 4 жыл бұрын
"Oh it barely ever blows up if you drop it" is not what your troops want to hear.
@cgunugc
@cgunugc 4 жыл бұрын
The army DID adopt the Sig p320, so there's apparently an acceptable level of "goes bang when dropped" still to this day.
@TheWolfsnack
@TheWolfsnack 4 жыл бұрын
anti-dropping incentive?
@natethompson6394
@natethompson6394 4 жыл бұрын
the issue only would ever happen when someone would drop or slam the gun on its butt stock
@ZGryphon
@ZGryphon 4 жыл бұрын
@@TheWolfsnack "you see Ivan," etc.
@randymagnum143
@randymagnum143 4 жыл бұрын
@@cgunugc they adopted a pistol made out of playdoh that hit you in the face with pieces of slide. Whats your point?
@mikaelkanerva1591
@mikaelkanerva1591 4 жыл бұрын
"Spacer goes back into its little house" Almost feels like a Bob Ross video 😁
@MrEvan312
@MrEvan312 4 жыл бұрын
Ian kinda feels like the Bob Ross of firearms history education.
@sliceofbread2611
@sliceofbread2611 4 жыл бұрын
@@MrEvan312 magazine detonations are just happy mistakes
@mpetersen6
@mpetersen6 4 жыл бұрын
Mr Roger's talks guns
@Rixoli
@Rixoli 4 жыл бұрын
I think my favorite thing ever related to Bob ross was how people often comment on him being the first person to introduce them to the phenomena of ASMR, someone jokingly said BDSM on one of the videos on the official Bob Ross channel to which the channel's staff sent a link to the episode "Shades of Grey".
@MeFee100
@MeFee100 4 жыл бұрын
Quite a plot twist, isn't it? I was sure that spacers were expendables.
@rustblade5021
@rustblade5021 4 жыл бұрын
I'd love to see the Remington MasterBlaster... It's an 8 gauge industrial shotgun used for removing deposits from kilns and furnaces while in operation
@mikel2725
@mikel2725 4 жыл бұрын
"...designed to cock automatically when the bolt was closed..." from the owner's manual: "NOTE.---These arms are all so made as to be left at half-cock after loading, but if it is preferred to have them left at full cocked it is only necessary to remove the Hammer Fly, No. 37, which is let into the tumbler to carry the trigger over the full cock notch." I have not tried this on my own gun to know if it is correct.
@rosssmithies8331
@rosssmithies8331 4 жыл бұрын
That's a remarkably pretty piece of engineering...
@donaldasayers
@donaldasayers 4 жыл бұрын
That's a remarkably petty piece of engineering...
@ZGryphon
@ZGryphon 4 жыл бұрын
As a friend of mine once edited a magazine ad for a hygiene product: "It's new, it's neat, it's discreet, and it hardly ever blows up any more."
@davidcolter
@davidcolter 4 жыл бұрын
I was expecting it to be a shock-absorbing cartridge release mechanism so that the column of cartridges would never experience enough force to fire the primer. But no, it was something absolutely bonkers and fragile instead. Well done Remington!
@Matt_The_Hugenot
@Matt_The_Hugenot 4 жыл бұрын
I was expecting a mechanism to tilt the cartridges in a tube moving the bullet tips off the primers.
@GunsNGames1
@GunsNGames1 4 жыл бұрын
Oh yeah, if you ever experience malfunctions in your rifle, you can use it as a hand grenade.
@Ozuhananas
@Ozuhananas 4 жыл бұрын
So, basically a Tediore gun from Borderlands
@ZGryphon
@ZGryphon 4 жыл бұрын
@@Ozuhananas I clicked View Reply hoping to see exactly this. :)
@SangTheCryptek
@SangTheCryptek 4 жыл бұрын
When you explained that the experimental solution used spacers, I immediately assumed they were meant to be discarded. I figured the next thing Ian said would be, "Unfortunately I can't show you the spacers because they were designed to be used once." Was very surprised to see the system was designed to keep the spacers all self-contained. I don't own guns so I guess I'm not a "gun guy", but shit like this is why I subscribed to Ian years ago. I love these wacky engineering stories related to guns.
@CatalinaThePirate
@CatalinaThePirate 4 жыл бұрын
I enjoy the engineering tidbits, too. Interesting little widget. 😏
@carsonm7292
@carsonm7292 4 жыл бұрын
The history and engineering is why I subscribe as well. I had the exact same expectation and reaction-this is a very cool device.
@toecutterjenkins
@toecutterjenkins 4 жыл бұрын
Imagine what those spacers would look like after a thousand black powered rounds through it . No less all the dirt getting into the spacer magazine. Guarantee that thing would of jammed up solid needing an armorer to repair it.
@100GTAGUY
@100GTAGUY 4 жыл бұрын
You don't have to own guns to be a "gun guy" interest in the subject is enough of a qualifier in my opinion. I dont own any airplanes but I'm a plane guy, and went on to learn to be an airframe and powerplant mechanic.
@paulpolito2001
@paulpolito2001 3 жыл бұрын
Transitional and experimental designs are the best for easy listening punctuated by the odd "Wait, they did what? Why?". At least IMHO.
@Kevin-mx1vi
@Kevin-mx1vi 4 жыл бұрын
"Tube detonations only happen rarely, and when they do they only blow off someone's left hand, so meh, who cares ?" 😉
@DissedRedEngie
@DissedRedEngie 4 жыл бұрын
lmao, you can just get a cool robot arm to replace your old one :crylaugh:
@jackmcslay
@jackmcslay 4 жыл бұрын
Given the amount of dumb stuff soldiers do that doesn't significantly impact the chances of them blowing off their hands. There's a story of a soldier who took a 50BMG catridge, grasped it firmly by the part that contains all the powder and used the rear part of the cartdidge as a hammer. I think you can guess what happened.
@Wow22109
@Wow22109 4 жыл бұрын
Maybe left handed people
@CiastoToKlamstwo
@CiastoToKlamstwo 4 жыл бұрын
@@Wow22109 including Ian
@victorpapaavp
@victorpapaavp 4 жыл бұрын
@@CiastoToKlamstwo Then he'd lose his right hand, since... yeah
@c1ph3rpunk
@c1ph3rpunk 4 жыл бұрын
I was fully expecting this to be “the rounds cost .03 but the proprietary spacers were .99 each and discarded after every use”. Cha-Ching! Weesa make a lot o money!!
@Locutus494
@Locutus494 4 жыл бұрын
It would be like that if it were made for the military today...
@deadflowers7017
@deadflowers7017 4 жыл бұрын
Same
@widgren87
@widgren87 4 жыл бұрын
I like these old prototypes, some of them makes you really consider "what ifs" and make for great thought experiments :-)
@StevieNotStevie
@StevieNotStevie 4 жыл бұрын
It looks like a Moisin, a Lebel and a Remington rifle have been spliced together in some steampunk parallel universe
@user-oh2kt8lf6g
@user-oh2kt8lf6g 4 жыл бұрын
Remington: "And now, with all them doughnuts, let us go full auto..."
@thecynic75
@thecynic75 4 жыл бұрын
Forgotten Weapons is like a classic film - watch it x amount of times and still find it fascinating every time. I've watched your video on the Inkunzi PAW(I hope that's correct) more than a dozen times and my interest hasn't faded yet.
@100GTAGUY
@100GTAGUY 4 жыл бұрын
The Cynic the South Africans made some really damn cool firearms for sure, I always look forward to some of the wild designs they conjure up.
@zanedeklerk
@zanedeklerk 4 жыл бұрын
"The spacer goes back into it's little house" Ian is too wholesome
@anatineduo4289
@anatineduo4289 4 жыл бұрын
ok, so the tube magazine has it's flaws... therefore we will add another "magazine" and feed/ejection system to allow the tube mag to work more safely... impressive complexity!
@Ni999
@Ni999 4 жыл бұрын
Two wrongs don't make a right, _but three do._ - Firesign Theater
@colemanmoore9871
@colemanmoore9871 4 жыл бұрын
Bro, we heard you like tube magazines, so we put a tube magazine on your tube magazine.!
@baronofhell2277
@baronofhell2277 4 жыл бұрын
Since it stayed experimental i guess someone was not to Keene on this rifle.
@moritamikamikara3879
@moritamikamikara3879 4 жыл бұрын
@Danny AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
@deadflowers7017
@deadflowers7017 4 жыл бұрын
You can let yourself out now.
@grahamlopez6202
@grahamlopez6202 4 жыл бұрын
Alright, partys over. Come on, out with you
@brucerobert227
@brucerobert227 4 жыл бұрын
Back in the mid-80's, I knew someone that had one of these that was the standard model, used to load BP round and shoot it! Barrel was poor so it was not the most accurate thing around, but actually worked fairly well. Having to cock the "hammer" for every freakin' shot was a total PITA and was easy to see why no one ever really adopted it, but still a neat gun all the same..thanks for the memories! PS...I'm Lucky #7!!!!
@sawyere2496
@sawyere2496 4 жыл бұрын
I’d love one of these. A bolt action .45-70 is a very nice thing
@100GTAGUY
@100GTAGUY 4 жыл бұрын
I remember shooting a .22lr for a BSA marksmanship competition that had a manual cocking hammer device, and that thing was a total pain to pull back because it was a non knurled circular straight pull hammer lowered into a half moon recess in the stock. It had pretty strong spring tension on it too which made it even harder cock with the minimal amount of actual area to grip.
@petervollhiem3109
@petervollhiem3109 4 жыл бұрын
Fabulous video. Such a huge amount of engineering to a problem that is easily sloved with a box magazine. This was the rifle featured in the movie, "Joe Kidd". I had 4 .38 Spl light off in a Navy Arms "Yellowboy" tube magazine back in the late 1970s. It was really loud with brass fragments flying around. So, this video is of particular interest. Much thanks.
@gregoryfilin8040
@gregoryfilin8040 4 жыл бұрын
What a wild bit of engineering. Fascinating.
@tarmaque
@tarmaque 4 жыл бұрын
Note that Remington came up with a better system for their Model 14 pump-action rifles that was simply a spiral magazine. Due to the shape of the magazine the point of the bullet rested on the rim instead of the primer of the cartridge in front of it. I've got one, but unfortunately it's in .32 Remington and is nearly impossible to find ammunition for. I have _one_ box of 20, but I don't plan on shooting them until I find some dies so I can reload them. It's a handy little rifle, similar to a 30-30 Winchester lever action. (Or actually, .32 Winchester Special)
@oaktreered
@oaktreered 4 жыл бұрын
Midsouth shooters seems to have the right dies.
@ScottKenny1978
@ScottKenny1978 4 жыл бұрын
That spiral magazine was also some 40 years later...
@tarmaque
@tarmaque 4 жыл бұрын
@@ScottKenny1978 The Model 14 was released in 1908, therefore developed in the years preceding that. The Remington-Keen he's talking about here was developed for the 1878 military trials, so was developed in the years preceding _that._ So about _30_ years. However, the point was that Remington never stopped looking for a solution to the problem, and eventually developed one. It works quite well even with spitzer bullets, although by the time it was developed the whole idea of a tube magazine was obsolete. In fact, even by the 1878 trials all tubular magazines were obsolete, the various militaries just didn't know it yet. The en-block clip and internal box magazine had already been patented. The next year in 1879 the Austrian military was the first to adopt a modern vertical magazine rifle: The Mannlicher M1886 using early Mannlicher clips. Mauser soon followed suit and the rest is history. But as I said, the point was that Remington kept working on the problem and eventually solved it, even though by then tubular magazines were all but obsolete except for shotguns and .22 rimfires. The model 14 and 141 were produced up until 1950 as an alternative to the Winchester model 1894 lever action, which basically ignored the problem, which as Ian said was fairly rare to begin with. Remington still makes a pump action rifle, the model 7600, but it is now fed by more modern box magazines. They aren't particularly popular.
@tarmaque
@tarmaque 4 жыл бұрын
@@oaktreered So does www.ch4d.com/sales and they have neck-sizer dies which would increase the longevity of what little brass I have. On the other hand, I really don't plan on shooting it much. (It belonged to a high-school classmate and friend of my Dad, and it's 100 years old.)
@svtirefire
@svtirefire 4 жыл бұрын
"Yo dawg I heard you like magazines.."
@C-Henry
@C-Henry 4 жыл бұрын
A unique idea, but I can see a system this complex having problems in the field, its no surprise it was abandoned.
@blamb42
@blamb42 4 жыл бұрын
Tube magazine detonation cost us the wonderful Ruger .44 Magnum Carbine because somebody just had to use round nose(?) bullets instead of the recommended hollow point or flat nose bullets specified by Ruger.
@silkyz68
@silkyz68 4 жыл бұрын
I still want a detachable tube magazine just so quivers can be a thing again
@atomic_wait
@atomic_wait 4 жыл бұрын
Like for the G11?
@onelonecelt9168
@onelonecelt9168 4 жыл бұрын
Most .22 tube magazines I have messed with are only retained by a little bit of solder and a band. With a bit of machining and a longer stock for support, you could probably do this.
@paulpolito2001
@paulpolito2001 3 жыл бұрын
Speed tubes for any tube-fed shotgun, should work "just fine". Enjoy your Hawkeye/Deadeye/Robin Hood LARP!
@cephasmartin8593
@cephasmartin8593 4 жыл бұрын
Your videos are always so interesting. Thanks, Gun Jesus.
@vamsterr
@vamsterr 4 жыл бұрын
what an Ingenious system! Would love to see it fire but damn clever way to solve the issue, regardless of how big or small it may have been
@loupiscanis9449
@loupiscanis9449 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you , Ian .
@marblemarble7113
@marblemarble7113 4 жыл бұрын
the fact that the spacers come out makes me love these old guns
@davidsquall351
@davidsquall351 4 жыл бұрын
But they dont.....
@RalphReagan
@RalphReagan 4 жыл бұрын
Looks beautiful
@davidgillon2762
@davidgillon2762 4 жыл бұрын
5:25 "Clearly Remington recognised that this manual cocking thing was " I was so hoping Ian would go for cockamie here!
@djstl100
@djstl100 4 жыл бұрын
He later went on to have success designing the "pez dispenser"....
@victorpapaavp
@victorpapaavp 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you Ian, if it weren't for you and your amazing work on Forgotten weapons, I would not have been able to recognize the Steyr M1912 pistol in the half second or so it flashes on screen in the new Kingsman trailer. I recognized it instantly. You sir, really are gun Jesus!
@scooterdogg7580
@scooterdogg7580 4 жыл бұрын
I'd like to see some early air rifles , they're definitely forgotten
@sawyere2496
@sawyere2496 4 жыл бұрын
Someone did a video on the Giradoni air rifle on this channel I believe
@sawyere2496
@sawyere2496 4 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aMqKf8h2uqudZGQ.html
@davidbrennan660
@davidbrennan660 4 жыл бұрын
Now we keep it simple, early ideas are to make it complex, real complex.
@neksiswolf
@neksiswolf 4 жыл бұрын
Love the inventive in these prototypes. Although I have a question ¿Do the spacers affect to the magazine capacity? ¿Or they sit between cartridges "housing" them somehow?
@AsbestosMuffins
@AsbestosMuffins 4 жыл бұрын
i wonder if it is just so much less possible today because of better primer chemistry and was more of a possibility back then especially in the earlier days of cartidges because of the chemistry of the early primers making them less predictable and maybe more sensitive
@LordDonutz
@LordDonutz 4 жыл бұрын
Where can I get that sweater?
@beardoggin8963
@beardoggin8963 4 жыл бұрын
LordDonutz most likely it came from Varusteleka.
@hauptmanndosman
@hauptmanndosman 4 жыл бұрын
He commented on another video about it. I came from a shop on the Isle of Jersey.
@darthsuitcase6166
@darthsuitcase6166 4 жыл бұрын
Whoa, dude, that is one _tubular_ magasine.
@trooperdgb9722
@trooperdgb9722 4 жыл бұрын
It really must be an exceedingly rare event, and id love to know in WHAT rifles it has provably occurred...especially if said to be under recoil (rather then dropped from a height) . When I first got in to Cowboy Action I used a Uberti 73 in 44-40. The only cast 429 projectiles I could get at the time were RN rather than some form of Flat point or RNFP... I was told I would have magazine detonations immediately/it was dangerous/etc etc. Being new then to handloading, and being concerned by all this I did some testing. I secured a primed, empty case mouth down in a vise… made a little jig to locate one of those RN bullets nose first directly ON the primer... put on safety glasses etc..and started hitting the base of the bullet. Result? No primer detonations... and a deformed bullet. And of course in some years of use, and several thousand of those projectiles shot...never a problem. (RNFP bullets DID eventually become available) THAT experience, and MANY thousands of quite small nosed 125gr TC bullets through a 38 Special 73 , have really made me wonder HOW a magazine detonation could happen. I think the RIM of these lever action cartridges, especially the 30-30/32 Special etc is large enough to angle the whole round enough in the tube to prevent routine contact with the primer..so there must be some OTHER factor involved in mag tube detonations... (After all that rim/angle idea is effectively what prevented problems in the Lebel..wasn't it?)
@TheGimpy117
@TheGimpy117 4 жыл бұрын
it's amazing nobody thought about a rubber tip until Hornady figured it out.
@Hansengineering
@Hansengineering 4 жыл бұрын
Chemistry was not at the point it could make rubber bullet tips until the very end of the 20th.
@iamnegan2294
@iamnegan2294 4 жыл бұрын
Beauty.
@Dafmeister1978
@Dafmeister1978 4 жыл бұрын
Were tube magazine explosions an issue on guns using round-nosed bullets, e.g. a Winchester '73 in 44-40 WCF? I can understand it being an issue in something like an 1886 Lebel firing spitzer rounds, could a rounded bullet apply enough force on the primer to trigger it?
@sethy5136
@sethy5136 4 жыл бұрын
No
@Josh-gg6ct
@Josh-gg6ct 4 жыл бұрын
Funnily enough even with spitzer ammo it was not a major issue for the lebel with very few reported for the entirety of ww1.
@paullytle1904
@paullytle1904 4 жыл бұрын
@@Josh-gg6ct 8mm lebel was specifically designed so that the nose of the bullet would rest in a recess around the primer
@_aullik
@_aullik 4 жыл бұрын
If this were a German gun, the spacers would automatically insert themselves.
@jaymassengill3340
@jaymassengill3340 4 жыл бұрын
Yes and then we would be talking about Kraut "Spacer" Magic instead of the later Kraut "Space" Magic.
@paulmanson253
@paulmanson253 4 жыл бұрын
@@jaymassengill3340 Groan. Well done.
@mpetersen6
@mpetersen6 4 жыл бұрын
Plus they would automatically clean themselves, stone out any dents and dings and in general be "schpick und schpan"
@eddiegirvan2394
@eddiegirvan2394 4 жыл бұрын
the guns are cool but id like to know the whats wheres and whos of that sweater
@chrisagnew2923
@chrisagnew2923 4 жыл бұрын
Finally a rifle that answers the question 'Wouldn't it be easier to design a box magazine?'.
@PsychoticBovine
@PsychoticBovine 4 жыл бұрын
We had a tube mag detonation at our range. I mentioned this on a comment section and was called a liar, And a few other words.
@guillermocingolani3307
@guillermocingolani3307 10 ай бұрын
El Remington Keene - un fusil cuyo cerrojo al abrir no montaba el martillo. Accionaba - cargaba la recámara pero el martillo debía montarse a mano. Toda una curiosidad. Saludos 🐜
@littlearsehole75
@littlearsehole75 4 жыл бұрын
Is that sweater from Varusteleka?
@troy9477
@troy9477 4 жыл бұрын
Interesting. Almost a Rube Goldberg solution to an overstated problem. You never mentioned the chambering- could it be 44-40? Great video as always. Thank you.
@kushkiller7108
@kushkiller7108 4 жыл бұрын
Neat idea. I wonder if the spacers ever get jammed up.
@Seelenschmiede
@Seelenschmiede 4 жыл бұрын
I bet they do after a couple of shots with all the gunk acumulating there
@LasserOwl
@LasserOwl 4 жыл бұрын
Anyone know what hoodie Ian is wearing? I really like it
@Kepe
@Kepe 4 жыл бұрын
Wait... How does a spacer with a hole in the middle stop the tip of a bullet touching the center of the rear of another cartridge? Or were the spacers thick enough so that they would catch the front of the bullet so that it doesn't poke through the other side of the spacer? I can't quite see where the stuck spacer ends down in the magazine to get an idea of how thick it is.
@Blazer02LS
@Blazer02LS 4 жыл бұрын
It looks like it is a simple flat disc.
@davidellenbaum1229
@davidellenbaum1229 4 жыл бұрын
cool rifle . thks
@jmackmcneill
@jmackmcneill 4 жыл бұрын
I imagine it was much more of a concern with earlier, twitchy primers, before design and manufacture was as standardised and reliable as it is today.
@jerryjohnsonii4181
@jerryjohnsonii4181 4 жыл бұрын
Very interesting Firearm. Thanks for showing this peace of history , Gun Jesus !!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Emdee5632
@Emdee5632 4 жыл бұрын
I don't know if there are any disadvantages with a box magazine but there are several with a tube magazine (slow to load, front side of the rifle is heavy when fully loaded). Why were box magazines not accepted for general use decades earlier?
@Seelenschmiede
@Seelenschmiede 4 жыл бұрын
Because human nature. Stick to what you know. And the worse it gets the older the deciting guys are. You know, old grumpy men "we used to do it this way so we will do it so in future!"
@christianjohnsen8214
@christianjohnsen8214 4 жыл бұрын
Hello Ian have you handeld a walther gsp target pistol? I own one in .22 with .32 conversion kit and a hämmerli 208 targetpistol and a 9mm bernadelli vb practical
@asteroidrules
@asteroidrules 4 жыл бұрын
I have to wonder if anyone at Remington looked at this back in the day and asked "why?" This seems like an exceptionally complex system and would have been developed around the same time that Remington had encountered Lee's much better box magazine design.
@jenavevesnowolf13
@jenavevesnowolf13 4 жыл бұрын
A series of tubes!
@bdoublethroughfrontdoor3169
@bdoublethroughfrontdoor3169 4 жыл бұрын
What's your favourite action
@jeffm68
@jeffm68 4 жыл бұрын
The Rube Goldberg philosophy of gun design.
@jamiealcock118
@jamiealcock118 4 жыл бұрын
Bolt action with a tube mag? Im definitly not a gun expert but to me sounds a bit like the Lebel rifle the french adopted. I wonder if the french knew about this gun and took some inspiration or at least notes on what worked and what could be done to improve on the system.
@charlesadams1721
@charlesadams1721 4 жыл бұрын
The French copied the Kropatschek rifle for the Lebel. The tube magazine for just the ball had been around since the 1700s. The tube magazine for a cartridge was first seen on the American Volcanic in the mid-1800s. It was in common use from the mid-1800s in Winchester lever-action rifles and the Spencer rifles which were well known worldwide. The first incorporation of the tubular magazine with a bolt-action rifle was with the Mauser model 1871, which equipped the 1871 with a tubular magazine in the 1880s (the Mauser equipped the Germans, the principal enemy of the French, BTW). The Lebel was a terrible amalgamation of whatever semi-proven ideas and components of a rifle that could be thrown together in a hurry to be the first repeating smokeless powder cartridge firing rifle. The French believed this extremely rapid development was necessary to develop the rifle as the smokeless powder was considered to be a state secret and for the most part, the French had been in some form of continual war for nearly 100 years, with brief outbreaks of peace. In reality, considering the need to develop a rifle as fast as possible, the Lebel was as good as could have been done but was out-of-date at the time of its adoption. And then while recognizing it was but a stop-gap rifle, they almost immediately started developing a replacement, but the Lebel remained in service in some purposes for the next 70 years. Also, the rushed nature of the Lebel rifle hindered the development of a suitable modern replacement for the equally out-of-date 8mm Lebel cartridge.
@jamiealcock118
@jamiealcock118 4 жыл бұрын
@@charlesadams1721 Thanks for the info appreciate it.
@fetishartist137
@fetishartist137 4 жыл бұрын
I'm familiar with tube magazine chain firing, but typically with pointed, full metal jacket bullets. Given these were in 45-70, is it really that much of an issue?
@61diemai
@61diemai 4 жыл бұрын
Interesting .
@MSW-R
@MSW-R 4 жыл бұрын
My focus was split between the rifle and your sweater, it looks too comfortable. Where did you get it?
@enricopaolocoronado2511
@enricopaolocoronado2511 4 жыл бұрын
"Rarely blows up if you drop it" So basically this thing can be turned into a rather pricey grenade if you hit it hard enough.
@whimsicalghost
@whimsicalghost 4 жыл бұрын
I love this channel 😎
@ashley587
@ashley587 4 жыл бұрын
Why did both fixed and removable box mags take so long to develop?
@TheRyanDude
@TheRyanDude 4 жыл бұрын
Didn't the French come up with a solution to this, I thought they had a cartridge that had a recess around the primer that the point of a bullet could rest in? Did it not work properly? I've always wondered why it never caught on.
@brucemccreary38
@brucemccreary38 4 жыл бұрын
Prime example of a mechanical gag!
@GunsmithSid
@GunsmithSid 4 жыл бұрын
So, it wasn’t a problem? Or the problem was addressed when we went away from Benet primed, copper cased, pointed bullet cartridges?
@TylerSnyder305
@TylerSnyder305 4 жыл бұрын
Didn't chiappa or Rossi just put a spiral in the magazine tube to prevent this ? Seems crazy how many complex solutions that have been invented when the solution was really that simple.
@remcodenouden5019
@remcodenouden5019 4 жыл бұрын
Do ROA's auctions actually continue with this COVID-19 madness? How do they organize it?
@thesturm8686
@thesturm8686 4 жыл бұрын
I thought non-spitzer rounds made them safer....
@beardoggin8963
@beardoggin8963 4 жыл бұрын
Christopher safer yes, failsafe-no. Remington was also probably expecting the military to adopt a spitzer bullet and planning ahead. But who knows
@salvadorsempere1701
@salvadorsempere1701 4 жыл бұрын
@@beardoggin8963 Spitzer bullets were 25 years on the future. So no
@evanf1443
@evanf1443 2 жыл бұрын
Or just use less pointy bullets lol. I’ve heard some say rounds like Lehigh extreme penetrators would be well suited to tubular magazines.
@lunarpking
@lunarpking 4 жыл бұрын
I had a chance to buy a standard Remington-Keene a few years ago for around 1,000 dollars. Me wanting to shoot everything I own stopped me. How badly did I fuck up?
@happyhaunter_5546
@happyhaunter_5546 4 жыл бұрын
Spacer vs. Spencer who you got
@dragonbutt
@dragonbutt 4 жыл бұрын
I feel the need to put that fake hammer on an AR.
@Seelenschmiede
@Seelenschmiede 4 жыл бұрын
This would be a hillarious sight!
@kopasedik
@kopasedik 4 жыл бұрын
@Dragon Butt don't give California legislators any more deranged ideas about "featureless" rifles
@paulpolito2001
@paulpolito2001 3 жыл бұрын
Lmao, its the tacticool incarnation of Truck Nuts... a mental image I *never* needed. Also, nm, forgot there are already Rifle Nuts. Fml.
@gunner678
@gunner678 4 жыл бұрын
Amazing. The Lebel did well enough without discs.
@willh.7755
@willh.7755 4 жыл бұрын
@@bmstylee And also the groove where the headstamp normally is
@littlebigheroman
@littlebigheroman 4 жыл бұрын
What a crackpot idea, lol. I wonder if this came before or after twisty tube technology.
@elektro3000
@elektro3000 4 жыл бұрын
I have heard people express skepticism that spitzer bullets could set off centerfire primers in a tube magazine, but I do understand it is entirely possible. I had no idea that FLAT nosed bullets could set off centerfire primers...am I understanding that correctly? Is this only with 19th century primer chemistry, or has this ever been documented with modern primers?
@workingguy6666
@workingguy6666 4 жыл бұрын
I bet that thing is worth a lot.
@danharvey5935
@danharvey5935 4 жыл бұрын
What is it chambered in?
@paullytle1904
@paullytle1904 4 жыл бұрын
4570
@judgedhades8583
@judgedhades8583 4 жыл бұрын
Huh i didnt know Tediore guns existed back then...
@toecutterjenkins
@toecutterjenkins 4 жыл бұрын
It’s insane this idea made it off a napkin no less a prototype made. To think someone actually thought this was a good idea . More likely to get shot when a spacer jams up your rifle then a tube detonation.
@rosone51178
@rosone51178 4 жыл бұрын
This may be an elementary comment/question, but isn't the 30-30 round always flat tipped for this reason?
@dwayne7201
@dwayne7201 4 жыл бұрын
I have a much simpler solution use a cartridge that's when laid flat the tip of the bullet has no chance of touching the primer like 7.62 by 54R
@lockedzombo4031
@lockedzombo4031 4 жыл бұрын
Fabuless
@Omnihil777
@Omnihil777 4 жыл бұрын
'dis truly a weird blossom of firearm design. Spacers. Ooh-Kaay. What other weird dry branches of weapons-design are coming to mind? Help me out here, folks:
@oiitssean
@oiitssean 4 жыл бұрын
I'm always surprised when such terrible ideas make it any further than being some lines on a piece of paper.
@tommyestridge9301
@tommyestridge9301 4 жыл бұрын
I won't quite say "Rube Goldberg" but pretty darn close.
@JamesLaserpimpWalsh
@JamesLaserpimpWalsh 4 жыл бұрын
Surely it would have been better to design a type of ammo that can be used in existing guns to cure the problem rather than designing a whole new gun? Mind you trying out new stuff is how we progress I suppose. Dinky little mechanism though. Cheers for the upload.
@Hansengineering
@Hansengineering 4 жыл бұрын
Flat nosed bullets were fine. They suck for the purposes of being a true rifle bullet, though.
@crazyfvck
@crazyfvck 4 жыл бұрын
Hollow point bullets would have been a much easier, and SIMPLER solution :P
@mehmetefeyilmaz1047
@mehmetefeyilmaz1047 4 жыл бұрын
Lütfen türkçe altyazı koyarmısın
@leathery420
@leathery420 4 жыл бұрын
0:30 Basically fuds preferring "hunting" firearms.
@joeromanak8797
@joeromanak8797 4 жыл бұрын
Does anyone else think a pocket full of loose rounds and a single shot would get rounds down range faster?
@premeditatedrape989
@premeditatedrape989 4 жыл бұрын
lets cut the shit here, where can i get that sweater ?
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