Exploring 1982's Commodore MAX Machine: Commodore 64's Little Brother

Рет қаралды 52,952

Күн бұрын

In 1982 Commodore launched a system featuring a 6510 CPU, a VIC-II video chip, and a SID sound chip, and it wasn't a Commodore 64. It was the Commodore MAX, a low-end computer / games system intended to compete with the Atari VCS and Intellivision. While it only officially released in Japan, Commodore was very near to releasing it in the USA, Japan, and Germany too. Join me as we look at this obscure system, and compare it to its much more famous (and capable) big brother the Commodore 64.
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Links:
US Flyer: archive.org/details/commodore...
PageTable's info: www.pagetable.com/?p=1158
Comparing Max game versions: c64preservation.com/dp.php?pg...
Jan Beta's Max Video Mod: • Commodore Max Composit...
More info: www.multimax.co/max-machine/ma...
Index:
0:00 Silver Label Commodore 64 and MAX history
3:10 Many names: VIC-10, VC-10, Ultimax, Max Machine
5:00 Nearly released in the USA
7:03 Comparing MAX and C64 ports, power supply
10:50 Look at Keyboard
16:14 Looking inside, MAX vs. C64
26:20 Powering up to play some games
27:28 Super Alien, Jupiter Lander
33:02 Mole Attack, Bowling
38:10 Kick Man, Wizard of Wor
42:42 Music Machine, Music Maker, Road Race
45:49 Next time: BASIC, and Thanks!

Пікірлер: 283

@The8BitGuy Жыл бұрын

Thanks for making this! Even though I own one of these machines already, I learned a few things I hadn't noticed about it. It's also one of my prized possessions, but objectively it was a terrible machine, and the games they designed for it were pretty bad even for the standards of 1982. I think an atari 2600 has a much better selection of games. And yes, if I had to choose between this or a VIC-20, I'd easily choose the VIC-20 any day.

@ScrapKing73 Жыл бұрын

I wonder if the Atari 2600 had better games because many more were released, and developers got a better handle on the system? Perhaps had this been a success, much better games would have been developed and released? Atari 2600 and Commodore 64 launch games weren’t all that impressive either, that I recall.

@ScrapKing73 Жыл бұрын

@@stonecodfish2365 I started gaming on a Pong clone plugged into the TV set, so I remember those days well! :) I think it's an uneven comparison to compare a handful of games for a rare system vs. a system with (according to Wikipedia) 532 games. And still counting!... more 2600 homebrew than MAX Machine homebrew, I suspect. :) But life isn't fair. I think the MAX Machine was capable of better games than the 2600, but I think it didn't get the chance to show that.

@3vi1J Жыл бұрын

@@ScrapKing73 Yes, I think T8BG was referring to selection. The best arcade carts of the time on the C=64 were published by AtariSoft, but I think they only released about 17 of them (and I'm not sure those were all carts). The C64 had some objectively much better games than an Atari 2600, but most of them required the greater memory of the C64 and usually the disk drive - which puts the MAX at a huge disadvantage when it comes to game selection.

@ScrapKing73 Жыл бұрын

@@3vi1J Oh, for sure. And re-reading it, yes, T8BG did specify game selection, so that's fair enough. It was his pairing of that comment with saying the Max Machine was an objectively terrible machine that conflated the issue for me. I only had a small selection of carts for the C64, only played two of them (Choplifter, and one that I can't remember the name of off-hand) with any frequency. Love me some Choplifter. One of these days I'd love to try the Sega Master System version.

@lordevyl8317 Жыл бұрын

I agree, although I prefer the MAX version of Avenger (Space Invaders clone) to the version we got on the C64. It was much closer to the original VIC-20 version, which played much better than the C64 version did

@rayf2145 Жыл бұрын

I had a smile when you inserted MusicMachine and tried to reach the power switch on the side, instead of the back.

@mjp29 Жыл бұрын

I have never seen a MaX by Commodore. Thanks for sharing !

@richneptune Жыл бұрын

I loved how comfy this video was, especially the second half when you just tested carts and made observations about them.

@Faceplant-hl5yn Жыл бұрын

Advertisement: "THE all new all in one computer that's not just a game machine!!!" Turns on without a cartridge : * Does absolutely nothing *

@NuntiusLegis Жыл бұрын

Well, nowadays all computers do nearly nothing without loading stuff, operating systems in ROM are severely out of fashion. A trend set by the Ultimax? ;-)

@vwestlife Жыл бұрын

So each cartridge has to include its own character set? Because I noticed some of them use the PET character font while others use the C64 character font. And that version of Wizard of Wor makes really bad use of the SID chip, too -- it sounds like an Atari 2600 game!

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

Yes, all graphics including character sets have to be either in the upper 4K of the 8K cartridge ROM, or copied/generated with code into the meagre bit of free RAM.

@sepsawink Жыл бұрын

Videos like this are the only reason that KZfaq app is still installed on my phone. Thank you 👍

@3vi1J Жыл бұрын

I noticed another keyboard quirk @12:10 in the video. The keyboard designer messed up on the Commodore+B PetSCII character, unless it's actually reversed in the cart ROMs compared to a normal C=64. The white areas on all the other keys indicates transparent/background color. Notice how it's correct on the 64C's keyboard. Another great video! Keep up the good work, Robin.

@XalphYT Жыл бұрын

My only knowledge of the Commodore Max Machine was from a single-paragraph article in an issue of Popular Science back in the day. Seeing one live like this had me on the edge of my seat for the whole video.

@bbartky Жыл бұрын

Yea, I remember reading about the Max back in the’80s but this is the first time I’ve ever seen one in action. Thank you!

@rbrtck Жыл бұрын

Back in the day, I only knew of the MAX Machine (or Ultimax) from the _Commodore 64 Programmer's Reference Guide_ , and I always wondered why I had never seen such a beast in the wild. I figured it was canceled entirely, but much to my surprise, years later I learned that it did indeed exist, at least in Japan. And now I want one! 😄

@ianthecomicartist Жыл бұрын

I always appreciate when KZfaqrs showing the Japanese version of products hold the writing up to the camera long enough so that I can get a nice clean image to pause on - it allows me to add 'reading video game packaging' to my list of Japanese lessons :D Really enjoyed the video!

@colinstu Жыл бұрын

44:23 I don't know why, but I love how the odometer rolls like the mechanical ones of the time, and it's pretty dang smooth too.

@DavidYoud Жыл бұрын

Nice overview. Fake shift lock key was indeed funny. Interesting that there's no ROMs to support that cassette port.

@johnsaller2481 Жыл бұрын

The Max basic cartridge supports tape! The cartridge is the c64 basic/kernal with serial/iec removed and Character images inserted and relocated.

@mattnik Жыл бұрын

Recognized the "music machine" song Robin was singing, I had that musical in LP record format in the late 70s, early 80s.

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

I was wondering if anyone would notice - you got it!

@FadkinsDiet Жыл бұрын

I had the atari 2600 tie in game. Not worth it.

@roy.jacobs Жыл бұрын

It's always been amazing to me that HAL Laboratories is behind a lot of these early Commodore games. I didn't realize it at the time, when I was playing them on my C64, but it's obvious with the Japanese lineage behind the MAX that there'd be a Japanese company writing the games. Their c64 version of pool is an especially fond memory.

@amerigocosta7452 Жыл бұрын

The importance of Commodore in Japan is often overlooked because both the C64 and the Amiga failed to make any impact there. But the Vic-20 had been a huge success in Japan before Commodore managed to lose all its marketshare in Japan. Still Commodore of Japan kept its relevance when it came to hardware design and manifacturing.

@randy7894 Жыл бұрын

I can't believe the glorious holy divine 6581 never made it to the arcades.

@Mrshoujo Жыл бұрын

The Atari 2600 can use a Light pen. I have Sentinel for the 2600 and it uses a light pen / gun. Also Atari did release a primitive BASIC programming cartridge, though Spectravideo would be the company to release a keyboard / computer accessory for it.

@Colt45hatchback 11 ай бұрын

Every time i see the compumate mentioned i am reminded i need to re flash the roms in mine... Then never get around to doing it 😂

@lazychemistry Жыл бұрын

I sometimes wonder how great it would be to go back in time to 1982 and show someone with a C64 a phone with C64 emulator with every game there is 🤪

@nichderjeniche Жыл бұрын

And still they would prefer a real C64 with a real monitor, real keys and real joysticks. So what's the point?

@nukeum9535 Жыл бұрын

that's funny that this version of mole attack uses keyboard only. We had the Vic 20 cart and I'm pretty sure that uses joystick. Also, I remember , as a kid in 89-91, we had a game disc ,copied from a neighbor, that was just labeled 'Max games'. it had all of these on it.

@lordevyl8317 Жыл бұрын

VIC version supports both joystick and keyboard controls

@delor3617 Ай бұрын

I grew up in Germany with the VC-20 (and later the C128D and the Amiga) and can still remember games like Mole Attack, Avenger and Radar Rat Race very well. Today I am very happy to also have this fascinating Commodore Max Machine in my collection. Thank you very much for this great and very interesting video👍

@donnierussellii4659 Жыл бұрын

It's funny that HAL made that Mole Attack game and then 40 years later, we're doing much the same thing in a Kirby game on much more sophisticated hardware.

@ThetaReactor Жыл бұрын

The same Terakura that worked for Commodore on the MAX also worked for HAL, where he served as a mentor to one Satoru Iwata. This is why HAL got picked to develop so many early Famicom games, as they were very familiar with the 6502.

@SimonCoates Жыл бұрын

31:20 Minor correction - it's music from Moon Cresta. Loved that game, possibly the best music and audio from that game era. Terra Cresta was a sequel that was looked like a 1942 reskin. Interesting video, as always.

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

Aha, thanks. I looked it up now: Terra Cresta was the sequel to Moon Cresta, that's what I was thinking of.

@laurent64 Жыл бұрын

25:26 the 6703 is indeed a PLA that is a lot simpler than the one on the c64. The MAX 6510 & VIC both see a unique view of the memory (internal RAM & external RAM/ROM located on the cart), while on c64 there are many views depending on the state of $01 and the expansion port pins GAME and EXROM. No bank switching via $01 for the MAX.

@huntercoleman1347 Жыл бұрын

The bowler sitting down made my day. Also the fact that the bowling ball is huge compared to his body.

@xaGe__ Жыл бұрын

This was another great video! Thanks for sharing your insight, information, and overview of this thing and a few of its games.

@MichaelDoornbos Жыл бұрын

1:20 Now THAT is a keyboard worth challenging yourself for National Novel Writing Month with. We could do typing speed tests against my Atari 400! Deductions in speed scores for the number of groans per sentence. 6:25 not that I need another project, but a modern version of spiders of mars may have to happen 19:50 the VIC 6560 in he VIC-20 happens to have 65 cycles on the NTSC version and 71 on the PAL. Facts for nerds ;) Been interesting to try to do the Composite with the two standards in FPGA 23:50 The best explanation of how the tape protocol works is the the Toolkit KERNAL book by Compute! 25:00 Also from the VIC-20 26:00 It's a gate array and acts as the PLA for the MAX. They are very rare, hope that one keeps working 27:25 phew, good thing you corrected. Now we can get back to arguing about why VI is WAAAY better than Emacs

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

A C64 (or Max) Spiders of Mars would be awesome. I only just searched now: I was unaware that it was actually made for the VIC-20, released by Umi? Woah, it was programmed by Peter Fokos - I've met him! So maybe that was an actual 3rd party Max game that was planned. I'll see if I can find out more.

@Lemon_Inspector Жыл бұрын

Bonus points if you can make Spiders of Mars look as fake as the mock-up.

@dbingamon Жыл бұрын

I have a very low serial number 64, it had the orangish function keys like the VIC-20. I used to work at Wards Computers in Cincinnati.

@bytraper Жыл бұрын

Bob Russell was the one that decoded Chucks tape routine. Chuck had left by the 64 release and there was no documentation,, so Bob nutted it all out.

@merman1974 Жыл бұрын

I remember reading about the Ultimax settings in the Programmer's Reference Guide back in 1985/6 and not knowing what it referred to. Fascinating to see the synchronicity between the production date of the chips between your Max and silver label C64, and the differences on the motherboard. I do like Mole Attack as a game, but I had not tried Bowling before. Think I will have a play of those Max exclusives myself. Of course, Kick Man and Wizard of Wor were officially licensed from Bally, after Commodore's unlicensed clones on the VIC-20 (Jelly Monsters and what became Radar Rat Race).

@Charleshawn66 Жыл бұрын

Another GREAT video! TY for all your content! Talk about your video being timely to me! I just got my MAX-04 rev. A on Friday! I was very lucky to get it from an auction site in Japan. If you saw the photo, I tweeted of it you would have seen it is MINT with no scratches or marks whatsoever. When I opened it yesterday to see what rev. board I had so I could plan the composite mod, I was amazed at how it has to be the cleanest board I've ever seen when opening a retro computer! Not one spec of dust. All the chips are from 1982 and I loved seeing an VIC-II 6566 for the 1st time in person.

@300BaudStudios Жыл бұрын

Two very nice machines in your collection. Love the channel, keep up the good work!

@eugenetswong Жыл бұрын

Hello, from British Columbia, Robin! Thanks for sharing. You mentioned Burnaby, which is where I grew up. I'm surprised at the amount of 8-bit stuff that went on in the region. There was an 8-bit magazine created in a city within this region in those days. I'd have to look up the magazine name, though.

@lanceromance6856 Жыл бұрын

My first computer! 300bps cassette drive. Connected to compuserve and my scanmans pi-80 BBS my first p/h/a bbs!

@GeorgesChannel Жыл бұрын

Great video! And thank you for sharing your insides :)

@AppliedCryogenics Жыл бұрын

Nice towel shout-out. You definitely nailed what I was thinking at that time. :)

@raoullangner-macmillan7655 Жыл бұрын

Happy Birthday C64 🤗🥳 what a great Video. To the German VC20: Yes, the price was in Deutsche Mark, DM, the currency of western Germany. Without Inflation this was EUR 255 (CAD 328), with Inflation EUR 536 (CAD 689). My first C64 was 600 DM at 1985 😍😇.

@bluehatguy4279 Жыл бұрын

The Jupiter Lander that I grew up with was the one on the Vic20. I guess I'm used to it, because somehow other versions just don't look right to me.

@NuntiusLegis Жыл бұрын

Landing on a gas planet, what were they thinking.

@JeanB-br9nw Жыл бұрын

Great video!

@ScrapKing73 Жыл бұрын

That symbol isn’t a zero, it’s an empty-set. Though in fairness, it was common in early microcomputers to represent zero with the empty-set symbol to more clearly differentiate it from “O”.

@freeculture Жыл бұрын

The Apple II family did as well, the docs said they did it to differentiate it better from the letter O. I thought this would catch on like * is used in computers instead of X for multiplication, but it didn't.

@ScrapKing73 Жыл бұрын

@@freeculture Huh... I didn't realize it hadn't caught on. I still use it sometimes. But I'm old. :P

@dave4shmups Жыл бұрын

Excellent video on this retro computer! I’ve read that book on the history of Commodore that you mentioned on my iPad. I’m glad I did, because Amazon lists it for sale new for $117.00 US!

@gleng6812 Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the education and showing something I did not know existed 👍

@strange67x Жыл бұрын

thanks for the video ! 🙂

@8BitRetroReFix Жыл бұрын

Great video .. Very informative .. The Max is the one missing from my collection :) ..

@RyanSmith-pf7ci 11 ай бұрын

"This is a bowler that is OBSESSED with sitting down!"

@MartinFarrell1972 Жыл бұрын

I've heard of the machine and it's the first time I've seen a working one. I can't wait to see the video for basic.

@andymanaus1077 Жыл бұрын

Back in the day, I remember retailers making a big deal of membrane keyboards being "spill resistant" although I doubt their claims since there were plenty of places around the edges for liquids to get inside.

@GadgetUK164 Жыл бұрын

Very interesting!

@mojoblues66 Жыл бұрын

Even though the failures in computer history aren't perhaps as interesting as the successes, this machine is still 100x more interesting than any PC!

@setSCEtoAUX Жыл бұрын

45:27 That hood looks a lot like the hood of the 79-86 Mercury Capri. Whoever made that game had good taste. ;)

@stevethepocket Жыл бұрын

I might have mentioned before that Commodore's eventual efforts to compete with the likes of the Sinclairs would have been better served by just making a cost-reduced VIC-20. This case and keyboard design seem like they would have been perfect for that. I also noticed that the second and third rows of the keyboard are offset by a half key width rather than the usual quarter. I've never seen another keyboard that did that.

@elphive42 Жыл бұрын

Road Race is a rather brazen clone of the Atari arcade game Night Driver. The car is actually pretty close to a paper cutout that sat in the middle of the display on the original arcade game.

@robertlock5501 Жыл бұрын

The bowler is just going back to his ciggy and beer XD

@fabiano8888 Жыл бұрын

I could watch these videos for hours.

@bbartky Жыл бұрын

Fantastic video! Thanks for the reminders of all the hours I spent playing Jupiter Lander, Wizard of Wor, and Kick-Man on my C64. 😃 And I’ve just subscribed. 👍 I’ve queued up several of your videos and I’m especially looking forward to your videos about Mapping the Commodore 64 (my “Bible” in the ‘80s 😂) and the Jim Butterfield tribute. (One of my heroes, who I finally got to meet in the early ‘90s.) And speaking of Jim Butterfield, have you thought about making a video about TPUG and its influence? Shortly after I got my C64 I joined the local Commodore club. (We met at a pizza place in San Dimas, CA.) As a new member I got two disks full of TPUG software. They had lots of cool utilities and some simple text-based games. To this day I think they played a big part in the success of the C64 in the USA and Canada.

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

Doing justice to TPUG would be a pretty huge undertaking, but I would like to see a video about it, and maybe I'm the one to do it.

@zidane2k1 Жыл бұрын

Interesting machine! Re: Mole Attack, I had that game on my VIC-20, and it supported joystick. I remember our first joystick was the terrible Commodore one, and I wrecked it playing this game, because I usually just held down the button and continuously thrashed the joystick around without regard to where I actually needed to hit. Needless to say, I didn’t score very well due to all the negative points I got. I was around 3 or 4 years old at that time.

@Drekkag 6 ай бұрын

0:01 Thanks for putting up the video with all that great information. Never knew anything about the max until now. Now for the big question, when are you going to release a video about the mini basic and basic cartridges for the max? Went through your whole channel and your second channel and never saw one. If I missed it, please link it for me. Otherwise, please do one for the heck of it. Thank you for all that you do in the commodore community and would love to see more 128 videos. That's the one my interest is in now

@fnjesusfreak Жыл бұрын

Surprised to hear the Moon Cresta music coming out of Jupiter Lander. HAL... I wonder if Satoru Iwata had a hand in any of those games considering he did those ports on the VIC-20.

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

Thanks, yes, I said Terra Cresta but it's Moon Cresta. As far as I know Satoru Iwata was only involved in the VIC-20 games, but maybe we'll find evidence of his involvement in the C64 too; I still haven't looked through all those C64 HAL games closely yet.

@makinjica Жыл бұрын

o , how i miss my c64 , thats only material thing i miss so much more and more as i watch this videos..

@Sakamoto196 Жыл бұрын

Almost all the games you showed made by HAL Laboratory and possibly programmed by Satoru Iwata since he knew perfectly the architecture of Commodore computers since he bought his own Commodore PET in the 70s And he spent his time debugging software in the offices of Commodore Japan.

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

Yes, HAL Laboratory was responsible for many of the launch titles for Commodore's VIC-20, Max, and Commodore 64 systems. The only commercial Commodore game that we know Satoru Iwata made for sure is Star Battle for the VIC-20, which is based on Galaxian. I made an in-depth video about finding his hidden easter egg here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/h7Bzqtaam7WZqIk.html

@spartonberry Жыл бұрын

31:27 Had to check that, yes, that music is Moon Cresta. (Terra Cresta was the sequel which didn't exist yet.)

@lordevyl8317 Жыл бұрын

The music in Jupiter Lander is from Moon Cresta, not Terra Cresta. Terra Cresta was not released until 1985.

@VulpisFoxfire Жыл бұрын

I'm amused in the one document you displayed saying that 'Ultimax sounds too much like a feminine hygiene product' as the reason for the name change. :-)

@jamesg872 Жыл бұрын

I was always a bit curious about this font used in what apparently are MAX games like LeMans. I'm guessing it's something they standardized on but it's not part of ROM on the MAX. I am looking forward to the followup to this.

@FadkinsDiet Жыл бұрын

Looks like a direct port of the single pixel width font from the vic 20 or pet.

@Switcher1972 Жыл бұрын

Interesting discovery.

@erkl797 Жыл бұрын

Ha.. just rode on Cameron in Burnanby last week! It's all different now... Max is cool, Im a Commodore guy, But this vid made me love my Atari 400 more!!

@csbruce Жыл бұрын

9:07 Huh? Why does the Max have a cassette port? It has too little RAM to load any decent games that way. To save game progress? 38:20 I guess they are actually able to do a little bit graphically with only 2K of RAM. Is the memory mapped in such a way that the VIC can access character glyphs and sprite frames directly from ROM? 1K is instantly gone to the screen, and .5K to zero-page and the stack, leaving only .5K for any RAM grahics. 43:44 Wow, a use for the cassette port! But there's not much RAM available for songs.

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

I will cover most of this in the next Max video, but yes, the cassette port is an oddity and seems to be there just to support their claim of it being a "real computer". Even the Mini BASIC cartridge doesn't support the cassette, but the MAX BASIC cartridge does allow you to load and save, and includes an extra 2K of RAM so you actually have a little to work with. The cartridge ROM at $Fxxx is mirrored (shadowed? mapped?) to $3xxx so the VIC-II can access it while also having a little bit of RAM to use for graphics as well.

@csbruce Жыл бұрын

@@8_Bit: Oh yeah, if the main ROM didn't go at $E000-$FFFF, there'd be nothing there for the startup vector. Is this ROM remapping for the VIC only, or does this create a hard limit of contiguous RAM for the BASIC cartridge?

@CrassSpektakel Жыл бұрын

In theory it was possible to add RAM to the cadrigdes so you had more memory. Though I never saw that in the wild.

@eugenetswong Жыл бұрын

I'm replying just to see if there is any response to the "for the VIC only" question. I thought that there was a way to subscribe to comment threads without interrupting the conversation. Does anybody know?

@stephenfoster341 Жыл бұрын

The music for jupiter lander which you stated sounds like terra cresta also sounds like astro wars which is an electronic game from grandstand. People from Britain will hopefully know what I'm talking about!

@JohnnyWednesday Жыл бұрын

So cool :D what a beautiful example too! would love to see what you're able to do in terms of snippets of C64 code running on this system :D

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

Thanks. I do plan on doing some coding in another video about the Max soon.

@JohnnyWednesday Жыл бұрын

@@8_Bit - Stab in the dark - perhaps some modern C64 cartridge and some code relocating might offer a door into the machine? - perhaps from max basic you can do some pokes that'd allow another cart to work via your funky multi-cart adapter? perhaps even address an REU?

@JohnnyWednesday Жыл бұрын

@@8_Bit - From Wiki "The MAX compatibility mode in C-64 was later frequently used for "freezer" cartridges (such as the Action Replay), as a convenient way to take control of the currently running program." Doesn't that suggest that some freezer carts run in that mode and might work in some capacity?

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

@@JohnnyWednesday I don't think I could get Super Snapshot or any other utility cart working with the Max, but the REU might. I'm a bit nervous to try anything weird though as some of the Max chips are extremely rare and there's no substitutes available.

@JohnnyWednesday Жыл бұрын

@@8_Bit - ah of course - best not to risk anything :) although the snippet about some freezer carts using the MAX compatibility mode is interesting!

@martinwillms5876 Жыл бұрын

Deutsch Marks inside the german advertisement for the Commodore MAX was correct! Good old times without this doomed Euro we have today. 😉

@jfk272 Жыл бұрын

Your research is unreal! Way to go! Btw, I’m looking for C64 Below the Root from Wyndham Classics. Any idea where I can track one down? Thx!

@lactobacillusprime Жыл бұрын

The Atari 400 of the Commodore 8-bit brand, although quite a bit more anemic compared to the Atari 800/XL range in comparison to the MAX in relation to the C64. Thanks for sharing this!

@weedmanwestvancouverbc9266 7 ай бұрын

The 400 though could at least be upgraded to 48 k. And I can't think of a single game from the Atari 8-bit line that wouldn't play on it. The keyboard was hot garbage but you could get a replacement one for about $40 back then

@georgef551 Жыл бұрын

Jupiter Lander......can't imagine what that game is supposed to be. :) Road Race seems familiar too. (Must've loved Atari.)

@lordevyl8317 Жыл бұрын

It's basically Lunar lander but with a much larger player sprite. LOL

@georgef551 Жыл бұрын

@@lordevyl8317 ....and far easier to reach targets.

@jacquesmertens3369 Жыл бұрын

Can't remember having seen a Commodore Max in Europe. 1982 was the breakthrough year for home computing, but perhaps I should say 1983 because that's the year sales really started picking up. The BBC Micro, ZX Spectrum and C64 were all released in 1982, but most people bought them in 1983 or 1984.

@boogieknee3781 10 ай бұрын

Oooooh?!Nice story. I only saw Pet,Vic20,Vc20,c64,+4,c16,and the amiga.

@desertfoxatgmxdotde Жыл бұрын

I noticed that on the Max the PETSCII diagonal character above the letter "B" is mirrored compared to that on the C64C. Wonder what comes on the screen when you use that character with BASIC on the Max?

@kurtwinter4422 Жыл бұрын

I'll never stop being amazed by how many resources Commodore wasted on developing completely bottom barrel systems on unrealistic timelines. Given enough development time, the C128 could have shipped with a different VDC, like Tandy or PCjr compatible, an 8086 instead of a Z80 for CPM-86, and doubling the SIDs and a clock chip for proper stereo 8 bit DAC. Instead we got rushed and half baked. The system I suggest could have competed with Tandy for the low end of PC compatibles. Eventually, they developed most of these ideas into the C65, minus PC compatibility - but it competed with the A500 so no good. That deterred existing customers from upgrading, because of the incompatible peripherals - modems, printers, mass storage devices - all were useless and barely the monitor could be used in place.

@vwestlife Жыл бұрын

According to Bil Herd, the C128 was really just a stopgap, so that Commodore would have something to show at CES after Jack Tramiel left but before the Amiga was ready. And it wasn't originally meant to have the Z80 CPU -- that was just the result of discovering that the C64's CP/M cartridge wouldn't work with it, so they fixed the problem by integrating the equivalent of its circuitry into the C128.

@adrianbye830 Жыл бұрын

Running lots of experiments yields many failures but some positive results. Thats how we got the C64.

@SuperHammaren Жыл бұрын

What about MS-DOS instead of CP/M with a 8086 processor? Or 8088.

@freeculture Жыл бұрын

Going against the likes of Sinclair with a product as limited but twice expensive, not very smart. Tramiel as usual i guess...

@freeculture Жыл бұрын

@@SuperHammaren In those days that particular CPU was very expensive, its a 16bit part after all (while using an 8 bit bus). There was a big division from 8bit and 16bit, with 16bit being for the "serious" business. The "non serious" business would use the cheaper 8bit machines like the Apple II with Visicalc (a spreadsheet program) rather than the one figure more expensive PC with Lotus 123.

@IDPhotoMan Жыл бұрын

ok, i searched and searched for "On the Edge" and finally found a copy for $40, so i have it on the way. Look forward to reading it. 🙂

@ElfinaAshfield Жыл бұрын

28:29 OMG It's Heiankyo Alien. Somebody call Jeremy Parish.

@lordevyl8317 Жыл бұрын

It was also released for the VIC-20. I had it when I was a kid

@DIYTAO Жыл бұрын

Looks like Max's Wizard of War uses multicolor sprites for players and monsters. C64 sprites are monochome and thus sharper looking (warlock may be multicolor). C64 version most likely has larger rom, thus better musics and speech support.

@lordevyl8317 Жыл бұрын

Mole Attack might not have been released on the C64, but there is an official version for the VIC-20, same for Super Alien

@lordevyl8317 Жыл бұрын

Someone in the scene should develop a game like Spiders of Mars for the C64 and make the game a reality

@axemanracing6222 5 ай бұрын

Hey Robin, may I ask for the next part of the MAX Machine video series?

@SelfIndulgentGamer Жыл бұрын

My favourite voice on KZfaq :)

@FadkinsDiet Жыл бұрын

42:44 there was actually a "Music Machine" tie in cartridge for the atari 2600. The music included parts of the title song and "Love, love, love" but gameplay was a bad clone of Mad Bomber.

@orignal29 Жыл бұрын

I'm wondering how much more C64 compability can be achieved through clever use of the cartridge port. Missing Roms, extra Ram? Even the disk drive port? (If I understand the pinout correctly, not very likely for the diskette port...)

@diymicha2 Жыл бұрын

Lel, as a German I never thought of that "VIC" would be spoken like "fi...k" in German, and thus meaning the f-word. Unbeleavable. Haha, thanks for clarification.

@SalivatingSteve Жыл бұрын

35:30 Mole Attack & Bowling title screens say copyright 1982 HAL LABORATORY! The developer who makes Kirby and Super Smash Bros games. Since it predates the release of the Famicom, these are the few games of theirs I'm aware of that wasn't published by Nintendo.

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

Yes, they actually got their start making Commodore games on the PET, VIC-20 (VIC-1001 in Japan), Max Machine, and finally Commodore 64. They also made MSX games before the Famicom. They made a surprising number of games for these platforms before the Nintendo days.

@jensschroder8214 Жыл бұрын

In German "f*ck" is a sexual word. "VIC" is pronounced the same way. In Germany it was sold as a VC - Volks-Computer

@delboy3k1 Жыл бұрын

A friend of mine asked does shuft lock work by holding shift down then pressing shift lock or...do the same plus a letter once to start the process of continous shift lock adter the first letter is done ? It is weird indeed but we both dont own a max. Does a dissasembly of a chip give any clues ? Great vid

@JSRFFD2 Жыл бұрын

So, since there is no KERNAL ROM in the Max machine, did Music Maker have some subset of the Kernal (or perhaps an entire kernal) to access the cassette drive?

@laurent64 Жыл бұрын

yes it has to, same for the CHARACTER ROM, some PETSCII characters and others are in Music Maker's ROM and VIC directly access them...

@AndrewTSq Жыл бұрын

what? never heard of this machine before :D Imagine owning one of these back in the days, would be called liar to have such a machine. Heard of people owning +4 and other uncommon stuff here in the northern europe back in teh day, but this.. no

@kobe3576 Жыл бұрын

Some of the games that you show in this video were developed by a company called "HAL Laboratory". They were also creating games for Nintendo and for Japanese NEC PC-6001 and PC-8001 computers that were among the most popular computers of that same era. Commodore would have a very hard time in Japan competing against NEC, Fujitsu, Sharp etc. So I wonder why HAL Laboratory decided to invest their time and resources in such a minor platform like the MAX.

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

HAL Laboratory actually got their start, unofficially, making hobbyist games for the Commodore PET, mostly clones of existing arcade games around 1979-1980. Then as the VIC-20 needed launch games, Commodore went to HAL Labs to port their existing games to the platform in 1980-1981. So it was natural for HAL Labs to continue this process with the Max and Commodore 64 in 1982. Then as Commodore failed to take hold in Japan, HAL moved on to those other platforms. That's the way I understand it, anyway. If you search my channel I made a video about Satoru Iwata's VIC-20 game, Star Battle, and included some of this info in it, though I didn't know as much then.

@ThetaReactor Жыл бұрын

@@8_Bit Yash Terakura also worked at HAL. They were uniquely suited to making MAX games.

@chumbawumba1959 Жыл бұрын

The ULTI-MAX has the Timex-Sinclair design language all over it. The ultra flat non-tactile keys in particular (which sucked big time). C64 in 1982 was a milestone technology, atho quite short lived. The Mac announcement in 1984 basically set the standard for anything that was not DOS.

@laurent64 Жыл бұрын

The CIA behavior is interesting on the MAX. Without a cartridge, the CIA chip is actually "disconnected" from the system (its chip select pin is not connected to anything). On the other hand, the 6703 PLA has a CIA_PLA pin that is asserted when accessing memory $DC00-$DFFF which correspond to CIA1,CIA2,IO1,IO2 on a c64. Both CIA_PLA and the CIA chip select pins are exported to the MAX cartridge port. The MAX cartridge must connect these two pins otherwise the CIA can never be selected. If you look at a MAX cartridge you will see this hard connection on the PCB. Why did the designers did this ? we can speculate it's to allow potential addition of other chips on a MAX cartridge in the range $DC00-$DFFF via extra selection logic (the MAX CIA actually doesn't have to be at $DCxx but i assume it's preferable for compatibility with the c64). For example, the second c64 CIA could be easily added on a MAX cartridge @ $DDxx to support the disc drive and userport.

@8_Bit Жыл бұрын

Interesting info, is there a write-up about the MAX expansion port somewhere? I haven't found anything yet.

@coryengel Жыл бұрын

The zero key on the US version instantly calls the Ghostbusters.

@Legerine Жыл бұрын

that plaza in burnaby is still there..

@LeftoverBeefcake Жыл бұрын

I'm checking out Kickman on my 1084S monitor, and it looks like the lettering in the Kickman title seems a little bit thicker on the C64 cartridge, perhaps due to the RF output of the MAX I'm guessing? Otherwise the font styles are exactly the same.

@retrotronics1845 Жыл бұрын

Memory, memory, memory. For the Max it was understandable have such a small amount of RAM but it does show what the effects of insufficient RAM do on the potential of a chipset. They didn't learn and made 16kb the base spec for TED based line and they already knew from the 5kb VIC the effects of doing this were. The VCS had the full might of Warner behind it, it is Warner who started off the 'killer ap" with VCS Space Invaders, and they hit a home run with all the excellent modifications to the base game. The Max was still better than the SG-1000, not quite a rival to Famicom's Popeye and Donkey Kong offerings for 1983-1984 era. Ultimately the import taxes killed off any chance the VCS, Max and Colecovision had of selling well in Japan vs SG-1000 and Famicom. They were also-rans given the low low price of the Japanese offerings priced at 66-75% less than the Western imports, they had no chance.

@shaunbebbington6411 Жыл бұрын

I wonder if the Commodore Max 2Kb memory was in response to the Timex TS-1000 having 2Kb built in? This was double the built-in memory of the European Sinclair ZX81 and was the absolute cheapest starter personal computer you could purchase in 1982, at least in the UK.