Grow up. NOTHING made by man is foolproof

Lol everything can be counterfeited from money,gold,cars,clothes etc.

@illuminaticomics2253 the punch bowl is tainted.

Absolutely! It seems like CGC itself was the scam. Lol

That's pretty much exactly what I was going to do with my full ASM run. I'm going the same as you. Head duty cases. I think they are called lizards skins but ill most likely just fabricate my own

i trust CGC to deliver terrible Q.C and get worse every year. They always do both. LOVE using CBCS

Protip: your heirs won't care. Just look at what is going on with Hummels and stuff. Next generation doesn't care.

My particular boys are very much into comic book collecting and reading. It warms my heart. ❤️

im copyrighting your idea 👏

I propose we go one step further. The company, along with all employees, are slabbed. Books are entered into a mail slot at the front of the building and once graded, the book owner is informed of the grade but the book never again leaves the plastic encased warehouse. It will be like Biodome but for comic books.

any slabbed blue label hulk 181 is probably missing the mvs 🤣💀

Nope. Cracked mine out completely and got it regraded with a bump. Lol. Mine’s legit

the fact you can crack it out at all is a bad look live with the grade you get period @@davidcox6601

@@davidcox6601🍪

I appreciate that! Thank you so much!

Thank you. It’s very sad and I hope CGC fixes this problem quickly if they haven’t already!

Thanks for sharing your experience. I am not sure how the dust will settle on this one but I wonder what the "guarantee" part of the CGC moniker means in this case???

there isnt one which makes anything CGC touched suspect which in turn affects the market @@ImmaculateComics

RAW is not the best for everything. And the canard that people who have slabs don't appreciate the comics is really tired. That's what reprints or low-grade copies are for. If you don't have slabs everything will desiccate in collector boxes, like so many comics already have. Look at it this way - if you have an excellent condition silver Morgan dollar, are you going to keep it "raw?" Or are you going to encase it and preserve its beauty and value.

lol

Thanks! I’ve received some comments that lead me to believe they do watch and I only wish them the best. If I can help them In any way I’ll happily do so for free. No one wants this scandal to occur and even though they were not directly defrauded, CGC is still affected greatly. They should have put more effort into slab security and that’s something I’m sure they’ll put more attention on now. I hope they succeed!

@@ImmaculateComics The sharing of your knowledge is appreciated Rick. I’ve watched most of your uploads and I’ve learnt so much. Thank you!

gosh thanks or the kind words!

I'm sure they got their eyeballs all over this video. Great job!!

I suspect you are right about the reholdering, but I also think you don’t actually have to have the book reholdered to make the swap nearly undetectable. Thanks for the kind words!

You are likely right that someone could have already figured out the method you've outlined and used that for some book swaps. However, the situation that has spawned the current awareness and discussions is that the books and labels are different while the certification numbers are the same. The newer labels, usually a custom label, are typically being updated with new information such as noting "newsstand" and/or "mark jeweler", with the census information being updated to match, which has to be done by CGC. A new label can only be obtained through a re-grade or a re-holder request. It was the updated label that caught the attention of "The 9.9 Newsstand" and he noticed the books were different but shared the same certification number. But, what you showed was incredibly informative and, quite frankly, fun to watch! Don't try this at home kids! LOL@@ImmaculateComics

That's. A good idea. Ill see if I have one!

@@ImmaculateComics if you don't I have one I can donate for science!

What a guy!

@consumetheliving I appreciate that! I'll look when I get home later today

Thanks!

I've seen similar things and we all Just sort of shrugged and called it a gift. In fact I've seen two ASM 9.0s side by side by side one was so obviously a much lower grade that the seller was unable to sell it because no one wanted it at that price. It makes me wonder now if it was a “slip n slide” book.

Putting the serial number on the inner bag

@@backroom12 Thats a good idea !

Lazer etch the serial number on every individual part: the label, the inner sleeve, and the outer shell.

All they need to do is put RFID tags inside the books. It's cheap and simple. Problem solved.

​@@YurrNextthey do that with casino chips and playing cards, cant see why they couldnt easily implement it in a slabbed book

"not excepting anymore re-holders without that etching." This solution would cause every single book without laser etching on the inner well (every grading book in existence currently) to either be thought of as fraudulent or needing to be regraded entirely. They can't come up with a solution that would alienate every person who has submitted books to them up to this point.

go one step further and have an accreditation process to certify graders so people dont have to crack slabs at all

It would help. But you could still abused Mechanical errors. Submit a legimate 9.8 book. As soon as you get it, swap the book out with a book in lesser condition. Send it back as a Mechanical error for cracked case, debris, etc. Cgc is going to be forced to redesign their cases and scrutinize submissions, MEs, and reholders. Unfortunately, what this means for everyone is, cgc is going to raise their prices and books will take much longer to come back.

they need to do so to make sure market is stable otherwise every book they touch is going to be questioned and devalued now whether or not people want to pay for those higher prices and wait longer? market will say over time but CGC reputation is shit for the time being this is what happens when companies dont invest into their business and make it better cuz of the greed monster@@eblanco7605

What about collectors who submit their books to CGC for their own collections, and not to sell? Those folks have invested thousands of dollars in having their collections graded. Now they have to resubmit to CGC and HOPE they get the same grade? How is that fair?

@Jdice03 I think the best course of Action for those people Is to reslab for free or at a steep Discount

Thanks!

That's what I was wondering. It seems the older cases were targeted for this scam.

Thanks!

That is such a great idea. I'll look when I am at my shop next!

Tha ks those are good tips. Nolan jist got a new DJI OSMO pocket 3 for Christmas and he needs tips like these!

@@ImmaculateComics We all do.

There is actually no glue involved. The solvent dissolves the case case plastic and it is then welded together. So for that reason you must actually break the plastic to separate the twonhslves. If it were glue it would separate at the glue point. In this case the weld point is very strong.

It's funny you say that because I discovered something similar in 2021 and was able to reseal the cases as well. I didn't make a video at that time for the same reason you didn't. However since apparently there are so many of us that stumbled across the same thing it's certain that this problem is much mode widespread than just the books that have been reholdered by CGC. You are a good man and did the right thing at the time. I wouldnt have shown anything now either if it wasn't already evident that the cat was already out of the bag!

You did the right thing. Personally, I think blasting it out on the the internet would open you up to cgc's team of attorney's and lawsuits you don't need,

Like a tamper foil sticker that they can fake now

I hope CGC addresses this debacle soon, the amount of more expensive books being sent in for grading must be dropping drastically.

And I want to add one more thing… they need to fix this crap for free and not end up making a profit off their massive mistake

@@offkilter9364 the victims in this debacle are any holders of high priced books graded by CGC. It looks like CGC has reviewed their order forms and disclaimers and will play hard ball, they will wait for the law suits and hold up their disclaimers. I really doubt they will take responsibility for their slab being easy to break into, the community is waiting for something to occur that won’t. It will come down to law suits.

This is a simple fix. You just put RFID tags inside the sealed books. It is easy and cost almost nothing.

You can put iodine crystals in the plastic that turn dark if it is heated!

@ImmaculateComics If it would prevent fraud, it would be worth looking into. Whenever they got a case to re-holder that showed heating occurred, they'd know it would require a full re-grade. Thanks!

If someone just swaps a book and resells it I don't blame CGC for that. However, if someone swaps a book, a HIGH VALUE book no less, and sends it to CGC to be re-holdered and they do it no questions asked, then yes, I do blame CGC for that.

@@300baud I find it stunningly difficult to believe that CGC or CBCS have no review protocols for reholdering books. There's way too much financial liability in that scenario. In fact, part of the reholdering involves, of I'm not mistaken, a re-evaluation of the submission before they'll re-encapsulate. I believe that's the norm for all books, regardless of value. So, yeah, of it was on CGC then there'd be a problem but it's not so there isn't.

@@coolworldpopculture The books being uncovered are lower graded and qualified books ending up in blue label cases with custom labels, so yes, these fraud books were getting re-holdered by CGC.

You're welcome!

Thanks for watching!

Thank you! Cheers!

I'm not sure but id love to find out if I can get a trading card holder

@illuminaticomics2253 I imagine something will be added to the inner plastic sleave and probably a tamper proof sticker of some kind

Thats the scam. Now they can send in the higher graded book that was removed. More than likely get the same grade. And sell both.

I suspect many people feel similarly!

Then what happens when a book goes up in value and was below the amount initially? You would still have high dollar books in the lower end case. All books need to be in the same case. A secure one that's tamper proof

I've always thought it was strange we had the same labels for $1 million books as $20, just from how we present them.

​@@dta151that's bound to happen, but if you sent in a book knowing it's worth 10k why would CGC encapsulate it in the same manner as a $50 dollar book. There should be some extra security.

It almost forced the lowest price of any graded book to be above the cost of grading and shipping. There's a “plastic tax” on every graded book

which is why ive always said grading is a scam youre asking a third party to SUBJECTIVELY rate your book (there is a finite amount of books that will grade high the rest is junk grading its whats going on in pokemon right now and starting to in sports/non sports cards is the grading of junk for repacks do you think the grading card companies are gonna turn down easy money? nope but it sets a artificial market for crap) i have 2 eyes and a brain i dont need someone else to tell me what it looks like @@ImmaculateComics

Wow that would be great if you and others can validate my experiments! Together we can learn and improve. The best disinfectant is daylight and CGC has been keeping everyone in the dark about their methods and practices. This issue may force some much-needed security improvements.

The black hat hacker should be exposed too so that they can receive community ridicule and so it will make it harder for them to do business, I’m sure they will open under a new name but the community should stay vigilant and expose them each time they do reappear.

I suspect that if someone were to get comfortable and experienced with this "slip n slide" method, they would naturally gravitate towards the meg keys. Same risk but a much higher reward.

Thank you kindly

thats actually a really good point. I think they are only accepting books on their list now and I suspect strongly they won't be adding any more books to that list. probably ever.

I will check and let you know!

Particularly in the high value books!

It's actually a solvent that completely evaporates and leaves no residue of itself behind at all. It just dissolves the plastic so it welds itself together.

Isn’t xylene a paint thinner?

Thanks 👍

Tha ks for the kind words. I sincerely hope you can get a cheaper FF1 now without having to pay the “CGC tax”. And really wouldn't you prefer to be able to read the book anyway!? I know I would!

I was just thinking about that. I had a book I bought on ebay about six years ago that was cracked during shipping and I never sent it in. Now it will cost me even more to get it replaced.

Well that can certainly be done. I think it's just a matter of cost. Clearly cgc should address this in some way. But in the past they have not been very transparent about their inner practices .

Excellent video. When I saw you had looked into this I knew you had figured it out. Perhaps a second hologram that has the label number on it that goes on the internal holder the comic is sealed in. This way if the numbers don’t match you immediately know that you have an issue.

many people have had similar suspicions but I always thought it was just an error at CGC. I once sent in two copies of ASM #41 (first Rhino), and they were swapped in the slabs. One was a 7.5, and the other was a 4.0, and they got them reversed. I called CGC, and the customer service agent expected me to just have the higher grade book in the lower grade case regraded and to leave the 4.0 in the 7.5 case. Their familiarity with this situation led me to suspect that this happens sometimes and that it's just accepted that there are books out in the wild in the wrong case and nobody does anything about it. I don't know that for a fact, but that is my suspicion and its just one more thing to be concerned with.

@@ImmaculateComics that’s ridiculous, it’s not a cheap service you expect certain level of professionalism.

That is a sobering amount of money on slabs!

@@ImmaculateComics based on the list so far, I’m good. I buy a lot on Heritage and comic link. What a hassle… thank you again for the hard work on this

Are you sure this person doesn't work inside CGC?

@skypatrol716 not sure at all

@@ImmaculateComics maybe we get a MCU docudrama movie out of this along with a comic book release key issue and we start all over 😂

It probably at least work a documentary of our own on KZfaq once the dust settles. Someone should be downloading any videos available now in case they get deleted later. There's a chance I get a cease and desist order. I got one years ago when I was exposed that a certain brand of gold balls was selling their $20 per dozen balls for $55 per dozen by just putting a different label on them. The balls are no different at all.@@skypatrol716

New cases can be bought online by anyone.

@DocReasonable then this should be the obvious method, just move the label and lower grade book to a new case rather than attempting to reseal the old case, which could leave a trace of tampering

The scam is more complicated than that. It's about resubmitting qualified green label books for a higher grade... I'm not going to try explaining it here, check out one of the recent videos that goes into. @@grobi614

well this and the fact that you can actually red a raw book, lol

Thanks for the visit

I don't know what the solution will be but I feel higher prices will be part of it!

people will eventually not use the service since it feels like they are getting gouged by them doing so @@ImmaculateComics

Thanks, and really it is worrisome. CGC brought a degree of comfort to online trading that the world really needed. Now, I wonder if that comfort is fully merited.

good idea. I think this is what makes these videos useful. honest people investigating and defeating the bad actors.

I suspect they’ll do something quickly. But if their existing slabs cannot be universally trusted I’m not sure how they recover from that. It’s a tough situation that CGC didn’t cause directly but through negligence they are still at fault.

@@ImmaculateComics absolutely. I wonder how many people will be cracking big slabs and making sure they’re complete?

@@gregparks1785 I have an AF15 that is missing a coupon from an interior page that they didn’t catch.

What the heck?? Oh no! @@ImmaculateComics

if it isnt it certainly could be

@@ImmaculateComicsgreat video I just don’t understand how xylene can glue something. I fancy myself a handyman not a good one though lol. Keep the good work!!’

Hi Michel, it's not obvious, but solvents such as Xylene, toluene, etc, are used as welding agents for acrylic and polycarbonate materials . The solvent dissolves a small amount of the plastic material from moth pieces, which merge together at that interface to form one solid piece. Then the solvent evaporates, and it becomes a sturdy joint!@@Mike_oliver1313

@@ImmaculateComics sir, you’ve just taught me something today thank you

Agreed! They'll go broke, but rightly so.

Really that's true but I can't see that happening.

Same here, that'll do for me!

way lower risk!

I hope you are wrong but I suspect you are right!

There aren't, you're misunderstanding the scam. Different books, same cert #'s

Really it's just silly how easy it is, once you know how

I suspect strongly that this scandal will temper the eagerness of some people to send their books in.

100% agree with you. What’s the point of a comic you can’t read. I just use top loaders to protect them.

@jayhays8267 I agree with you too. I believe that CGC's intentions were good when they first started grading books although the ultimate goal of any business is to make profit. They did restoration checks and that gave a lot of collectors peace of mind. But now that they have their own in-house pressing and restoration services they have bastardized the grading industry. Before CGC, amateur restoration was looked down upon and professional restoration by people like Susan Ciccone was generally praised for restoring structural integrity and appearance of important vintage comic books. Once CGC started grading books restoration became a huge issue and was looked down on. Then CGC did a 180° turn in their position on restoration because they decided to offer it as an in-house service. They have reclassified what used to be termed "apparent grade" as actual grade. How can a book be pressed or altered in any way and not considered to have had restoration work done just because CGC did it?! I know A LOT of people are okay with this because they are making money from it. I feel like there are so many less collectors who just buy comics for the love of them now. I don't have a lot of vintage comics but what I do have are raw F/VF to VF/NM condition Silver and Bronze Age books. They are structurally sound with very good eye-appeal. I can afford to purchase one once in a while and I can actually hold a vintage book in my hands and read it. If I create a little defect by reading it then so be it. They are still in much nicer shape than the ones I manhandled when I read them as a child and teenager.

In their hubris, laziness, and greed, they lowered their standards until the system broke. all they sold was trust protected by 58 cents worth of plastic. It ends up neither is worth much.

@@ImmaculateComics every word. 👏