ExpressLRS Vs TBS Tracer - Penetration Testing

Рет қаралды 17,162

2 жыл бұрын

So I managed to get out and put my new ELRS setup to the test and compare it to my current TBS Tango 2 and Tracer setup. I'm honestly quite surprised that the results went this way given the fact the Tracer has 2 dipoles and the ELRS only had 1 ceramic antenna that was just stuck to the side of the camera plate. Also given the fact I ran ELRS at twice the speed of Tracer it's a surprise it out performed it so clearly.
Hopefully these tests will show you how well both systems would perform at your flying locations, and depending on what sort of flying you do and where you do it, what system would be best for you.
With the RX's cost literally 1/3 of Tracer's, and the fact I build all the time testing frames, it makes sense for me to just switch. After flying my trusty old Taranis again I also realise how shit the Tango 2 feels in comparison and wish I wasn't locked into that combo all year.
Get yourself a HiYounget ELRS TX Module and 3 RX's for just £65!!!!! On Sale at Banggood.
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If the sale is over I have a discount code available until 31st December.
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SP RX Cermaic ELRS - www.banggood.com/0_5g-JHEMCU-...
-----------------------------------------
Frame - HaloRC Archon V3 730g AUW
halorc.com/products/frames/ar...
DJI Action 2
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Motors
T Motor Pacer V2 2207 1950kv
QUINAS 7% OFF (maybe?)
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LED Racewire on the arms
www.banggood.com/4-PCS-CLRACI...
ESC
Tekko32 Metal
www.banggood.com/Holybro-Tekk...
Capacitor
FM Series Panasonic 35v 1000uf
uk.rs-online.com/web/p/alumin...
FC
KISS Ultra FCFC
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VTX and Camera
DJI Caddx Vista
BGENVISTA 12% OFF
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Extra stuff I use
Goggles
DJI HD FPV
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Battery
QUINAS 7% OFF (maybe?)
R-Line V3 1400mah 6s
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Props
HQ PB&J P3
TBS Crossfire
TBS Tracer
TBS Tango 2

Пікірлер: 120

@changeagent228 2 жыл бұрын

Trappy threw a tantrum like a child after Varty did his tests and I asked him about it on his livestream. I already knew LoRa was mainly responsible and low and behold TBS announced LoRa coming to Tracer a few days ago.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

I for one won't be testing it for them that's for sure. Been there, done that... for the whole time Tango 2 has been out.

@changeagent228 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz Spot on mate. It's been sub par since release with ludicrous mode little better. A slap in the face to loyal early adopters really. Even the DJIFPV 5.8Ghz control link failsafes less. You are not biased like other channels. 👍🏻

@pav2k 2 жыл бұрын

LoRa is coming to tracer? Who said that?

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

@@pav2k Trappy

@pav2k 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz when where? I watched all the tbs lounges, never heard him say that

@sganzerlag 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for publishing this test! Great real-world scenario. Gonna go look for your tests with Ghost, hopefully they're up already. Best regards from Brasilia, Brazil.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Hey. Sorry I haven't managed to do anymore testing yet, working on a big project. Glad this one was helpful though.

@martinmfuchs 2 жыл бұрын

Very helpful, especially the parts where you flew into the woods, flying beneath trees with a bunch of leaves in between me and the quad is what I do mostly and this kind of penetration test is hard to find. Thanks for doing this! I just ordered my ELRS setup, can't wait to try! I would love to see a comparison with ELRS and a non ceramic antenna and with Crossfire. :)

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment Martin, it's great to hear that my tests have been helpful to you. I'm hoping to get out and do some more testing soon, I'm just busy working on a different project at the mo :)

@martinrcflyer4089 2 жыл бұрын

Hard core review dude. Nice work 👏👏👏

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it :)

@FlyZoneFpv 2 жыл бұрын

Great test mate🤘🔥🔥

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks 👍

@leadslinger5130 2 жыл бұрын

Very cool. I have been useing ELRS for a few months now I love it. I'm new to the hobby and found it easy to setup and use. My happymodle tx only goes to 250mw but usually only fly on 50mw since I just fly around the house. My namimno tx module just cleaned customs so hopefully I will have it soon! Hopefully it's as good as it looks.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Great to hear!

@serang 2 жыл бұрын

4km +++ on 100mW is easy for ELRS

@shadofpv 2 жыл бұрын

Cool to see this sort of testing :) nice vid mate, be interesting to see what behaviour elrs exhibits over water

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks man, I figured it might be a good idea to just compare them myself. Flying over water has little effect on the reception, not much different to a soaking wet grass field. it's only refected waves off the water that would be effected.

@shadofpv 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah why not! At least you know first hand the results that can be expected of that hardware i.e. tracer compared to another, one thing i do notice flying long range on my 900mhz namimno module is that the link quality does drop down a fair bit at first but is very good at keeping a stable link when the packets received by the rx are getting rather low, considerably more stable at edge of tx range compared to 2.4ghz, now that all these high refresh rate 900 mhz modules are popping up on the market and rxs getting better im considering just to stay with 900mhz gear on all my builds

@Fang2555 2 жыл бұрын

I feel like it would be important to note that in your open field test, while ELRS was less consistent in terms of LQ, it's actually still performing better than Tracer. Since LQ is a percentage of packets recieved, Tracer at 99LQ is recieving about 247.5 packets/sec, while ELRS at it's worst 94LQ is recieving 470 packets/sec. I think you need to actually do an apples to apples comparison (250hz vs 250hz at same power level) to actually get usable data since we can't tell if losing 6% of packets in open air is because of ELRS or as a result of sending double the packets.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Hi Julian, I totally agree. In fact I did say exactly this in my conclusion but then I cut the part out about how many packets were being sent because I wasn't 100% sure that was correct. I was doubting myself because I couldn't find any tyesting showing that 500hz is actually sending packets twice as fast than 250hz. I sounded right to me, but I didn't want to put out bad info.

@Fang2555 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz perfectly fair, I also double checked to make sure I wasnt making a mistake, these things are complicated and it's nerve wracking to make claims you aren't 1000% sure of

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

@@Fang2555 I'm glad you commented regarding this point man. I will have to run 250hz next time I get out. Also borrowed a Ghost module and RX to test alongside my Crossfire too.

@theagileaardvark 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz Also, ELRS was at a disadvantage because of the ceramic antenna AND it being right beside the (in comparison to the antenna large) CF plate which due to being a dense conductive weave shields/reflects RF signals to a good percentage so you basically blocked a quite large sector of its rx/tx environment.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

@@theagileaardvark Valid points dude and I did say this in the video too.

@noisy_boi_fpv_3920 2 жыл бұрын

Good simple test. Spot on

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

@JohnRiggers 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome video!

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks man :)

@slicksix8892 2 жыл бұрын

I'm still more than happy with tbs crossfire never had a failsafe and I have pushed it many times, I just don't think you can go wrong with good antenna placement with crossfire .✌

@jcfpv3454 2 жыл бұрын

Wow seeing the price difference in tbs vs elrs makes me want to switch being a drone builder and tinkerer just have to save up when I left frsky I put all new crossfire receivers in and have run those since without issues- Worst mistake ever was to update the firmware had to reset everything back to original version

@KPV_UK 2 жыл бұрын

Interesting results, even with the 'ceramic' antenna being at quite a significant disadvantage. I have a mixture of EP1's and EP2's across 5 quads and the ceramics have a noticebly lower LQ than the external antennas. I prefer to use the Ghost antennas on my EP1's as they have a flat side which makes mounting them easier, you just have to snap off the locking part of the UFL.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tips dude. I found mounting the 'ceramic' SP2's inside the frame made the LQ be quite unstable even in open field it fluctuated a lot. Might be harder for you on a racer but sticking outside the quad made a huge difference. I'm going to make a TPU mount for my racers (maybe like people mount GPS off back standoffs), but the RX is so small it's easy to just zip tie it to an arm or maybe the top plate. I just use dipoles and zip ties for my tracer, thew mini T's are so shit and expensive, good call on the Ghost ones.

@KPV_UK 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz yeah I've mounted all my racer RX's inside the quad on a little tpu mount that also holds the VTX so the antennas are right beneath the top plate, it's not ideal but not eactly buried in the quad. It mgiht not be comparable to the LQ of say a Ghost system with its two external antennas, but the LQ is usually 98-99 occasionally dipping to the high 80's which I feel is plenty good enough and worth the trade off for ease of building and protecting the antenna. Also I'm racing on 250hz as OpenTX only polls the sticks at 250hz anyway so anything more is just losing potential range/LQ.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Ah right, that makes sense then if using OpenTX. I've seen a lot of people say how much more consistant the LQ is at 250hz. I'll have to give that a try too. Totally agree with the ease of building and the benefit to protecting the antenna with the frame.

@Super_Mario_Fpv 2 жыл бұрын

I have found similar results. But also my expectations for the ep2 were lower. It surprised me on how well it performed.

@jcfpv3454 2 жыл бұрын

Hey guys I greatly appreciate innovation and believe a competition between a few companies is great for us but its hard for me to put a $10 receiver on a $600 drone and have a sense of safety. But very impressed

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

I don't mind testing this on my £600 drones, but I need to do a lot more testing before I put it on my cinelifter that's for sure.

@neilfpv 2 жыл бұрын

I was quite impressed with the dji and the expresslrs in the deep woods. OMG! That was really scary! I can't believe the video wasn't freezing. What was your dji settings? Was it set to low latency? Also is your elr at 2.4? I just bought elrs 2.4ghz. I haven't installed it yet.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

It's very impressive when I was using stock antenae. 1200mw, focus mode and low latency mode, I only ever change the output power the other settings are a must for me or latency is too high. 2.4 ELRS 500hz mode :)

@jamesmason7124 3 ай бұрын

Damm you can fly , you got my sub and like

@Bludz 3 ай бұрын

Thanks man, appreciated :)

@BaldybynatureFpv 2 жыл бұрын

Just a heads up man TBS agent lite works with the new version ,I just updated my Happy Model tx and was ready to start fighting with the Lua script ,I remembered somewhere hearing it would work with Tbs agent lite .it's working on my Jumper T12 .

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks dude, that's actually what I went to use when I couldn't get the V2 Lua to work, and then just running Agent Lite made ELRS V2 work :)

@sketchpv3080 2 жыл бұрын

Great vid! I’ve been getting my butt kicked by ExpressLRS hardware from HappyModel and BetaFPV but other than the garbage hardware I’m enjoying the range and feel of ExpressLRS 500hz.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks man. Sorry to hear you haven't had much luck on the hardware side. It does look like is going to be the drawback of using ELRS. That will all change when one of the good manufacturers step up. Would love to see a Matek TX for example, to go with the RX's they have released.

@sketchpv3080 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it work itself out eventually. Most of my issues have been using those company’s Nano “Lite” modules with an X-Lite. That and only 3 of 6 HappyModel EP2 receivers have worked. The other 3 bricked during the WiFi update.

@deltageek7177 2 жыл бұрын

@@sketchpv3080 Come to the discord server and ask for help, you recover those bricked ones easily.

@DimmyV 2 жыл бұрын

Nice video. New to FPV, I learned in sim and have a TinyHawk 3 which I’ve already outgrown so just looking into what direction to go with gear. I like digital and DJI so waiting on their next mini fpv (hopefully its sub 250g) otherwise I like the CineLog25. As for a radio not sure… I saw the TBS Ethix Mambo which I like their size of (as its smaller than the TX16) but would I be able to use an Express LRS module with it?

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Hey man. Sounds like you are on the right track with starting with simulator and tinyhawk. What radio do you use with those? Honestly wouldn't bother with the TBS radios, just get the new V2 Radiomaster TX16S because it has ELRS built in and a module bay. TBS stuff doesn't work properly, and even worse if you run ELRS on it from what I have seen. You are in a good position to not buy the right radio first.

@DimmyV 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz hey. I got the TinyHawk kit so it came with a radio and goggles. Could easily get more bind and flys but won’t be able to fly further. What about the tango 2 with crossfire. A lot of the pre built drones have option for crossfire. The TX16S just looks too big. Preferably would like something travel worthy. Also waiting to see DJI next radio as their current one on most sites is no longer available.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you man, super busy. I don't think DJI will announce a new system for a few months and if you can't wait I would just go for DJI controller along with gogles and vistas, you will have an easier time just running that. The controller isn't as big as radiomaster. The mambo is a big radio too.

@DimmyV 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz It’s all good. I think maybe next month they will announce it. In mean time want to make some money. After reviewing a lot on KZfaq if DJI doesn’t have a good bundle will go for the BetaFPV lite pro with ELRS and add crossfire. Even though most sties are all sold out currently. Will see what happens. In mean time im stuck with Tinyhawk flying in my garden.

@jumpstartfpv 2 жыл бұрын

Looks like ELRS gives better indication of deteorating link. Tracer just gives you a rosy picture and then just dips.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Yea, totally. Almost pointless having LQ on OSD when it drops so fast and failsafes.

@ivannicolas1246 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks...i got the answer..nice spot

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome, glad my video helped :)

@jcfpv3454 2 жыл бұрын

Thankfully I didn't get into the tracer and 5 other rc links i just like to keep it if it works.

@christhorney Жыл бұрын

i just got an elrs controller and one of these little receivers, one thing i heard in another video i cant remember who said it, but apparently with telemetry off if you do failsafe you have to physically power cycle the quad to get it to reconnect, im not sure if thats true or not

@Bludz Жыл бұрын

Couldn't say for sure but mine reconnect after failsafe without power cycle. Pretty easy to test on the bench ifd that's important to you. I only failsafed because I had no antenna connected, lol. ELRS is very good connection.

@SeeFPv-qm6ie 2 жыл бұрын

I might switch since tbs is making it harder to bind your receivers because of there new firmware update on their nano receivers

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Yea, this was my thinking too. However, I did hook up a crossfire RX the other day and it updated and bound without an issue like it always used to.

@SeeFPv-qm6ie 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz I decided to stick to crossfire

@thiagobruciere3364 2 жыл бұрын

Could you make a comparison with the IRC Ghost?

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Totally man. A freind of mine has kindly lent me his so I can do the same test with that, also goint to test Crossfire 900hz for shits and giggles.

@ThomasShue 2 жыл бұрын

The ceramic antenna are good good for 600 meters?

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

They go way further than that mate :) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mqidh7WZzLzHqY0.html

@sylvanlight120 2 жыл бұрын

Good news that 100mw ELRS does as well as it did... My Nirvana might be able to power it on 100mw.... Is there a 350mw setting?

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

I can try in my Nirvana for you, mine also can't power most modules so if mine works yours should too. There's no 350, but there is 250mw.

@stefffpv 2 жыл бұрын

very interesting video :) can you link the elrs reciver pleace ? this is one with no antenna ?

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Cheers mate, I've added my parts to the description :)

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Ceramic antenna version is what I used.

@stefffpv 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz Thanks alot for fast answer very good video and work you did put into it thaks alot and cheers (Skål) from Norway :)

@narendhraarjun7041 Жыл бұрын

Love from India❤❤❤❤ gud test all thoo

@Bludz Жыл бұрын

Thanks dude :)

@haka8702 2 жыл бұрын

The main feature is actually that it is open source and open hardware. ExpressLRS is clearly the future, it might get replaced by a fork but unlikely by licensed products. Now what I want to see is a uart data channel alongside the control channel.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Yes I think you are right, ELRS could easily become the new goto control link. Why would you need another uart connected? The one it uses now passes data back and forth and is in no way maxed out.

@haka8702 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz What I would like to see: express-LRS modules have WIFI, let's also add WIFI to the transmitter that enables a low bandwidth data connection to the drone that is emulated as tcp/ip. Right now we just have telemetry as back channel and I don't think we've an easy method to send data. ExpressLRS could become a standard not just for drones but also for scientific drone and non-drone projects.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Why would you need wifi from ELRS module to the TX when they are already connected. LUA scripts send and receive data through the RX's over uart, so I'm not sure what you are missing. You can control your VTX through the transmitter lua script for example.

@haka8702 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz Because I'd like to hook up a raspi or laptop to the drone. That's not possible, I guess some remotes do have some proprietary connections but nothing elegant. So you say the LUA scripts already give UART control ? That you could without much hassle transmit additional data both way ? Only the receiver would need to actually network it in that case.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Yes, lua scripts can send and receive over the air data. I think some firmwares use it to update autonomous flight points and stuff like that. I could probably help more if you had an actual example of what you want to send to or from the drone.

@sharpeye32 2 жыл бұрын

Great control... how can you do that in the woods?

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dexter. Just practice I guess mate, when you fly these as long as I have you end up being able to put them anywhere really. Being able to hover and fly super slow is harder than people think, I'm glad someone noticed :)

@loukasdrones3038 2 жыл бұрын

just think how much better ELRS would have been using the EP1 receiver with the external antenna

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Doesn't really need to be any better than not failsafing when my video gets that bad :)

@ChainsawFPV 2 жыл бұрын

Any new info on long range for Tracer? I cant find anything anywhere else :(

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Nah man, nothing in the release notes of latest updates. Trappy said on hjis livestream to use Crossfire for range, I don't think Tracer will ever have good range and penetration.

@ChainsawFPV 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz Thank you for answering. Was really hoping for the best of both worlds on 1 module. O well. ELRS it is!

@PaSu_FPV 2 жыл бұрын

Which power were your DJI googles running?

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

1200mw :)

@nerdCopter 2 жыл бұрын

+1👍 💪

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

@Dosclic98FPV 2 жыл бұрын

Is it normal that it flipped when failsafing using tracer?

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

My drone is top heavy because th ebattery and gopro are above the prop line. So yea, it's normal to fall upside down whe failsafing.

@Dosclic98FPV 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz Mine flips on the right while failsafing like the receiver continues transmitting the signals of the channels locking even if the signal from the transmitter is not received anymore. That is strange

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Hhhhmmm, that is strange. Guessing you haven't touched the failsafe settings in Betaflight? Also set failsafe mode to 'No Pulses' in the RX (this could be outdated I remember it from ages ago and haven't had to change it since).

@Dosclic98FPV 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bludz Will try it. Was also thinking to install ELRS and see if it solves it. Maybe that is a bug with the FrSky XM+ even because it doesn't happen always.

@jcfpv3454 2 жыл бұрын

I have to say it though since lrs became famous now everyone's bashing crossfire but before it everyone was running tbs and it destroyed everything so now tbs will probably release a lot of features that they have in there card hand and only time will tell

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Well the way my journey went was at first only available thing to use was FrSky, then people started putting crossfire on drones and it was better but the system was always designed for long range fixed wing, so always had issues running on drones. Thankfully ELRS was made more for drones than fixed wing. Trappy is more interested in his MavLink crap than anything for drones, especially with crossfire. Maybe Tracer is better for drones but it's like TBS are just learning how to make it work and are not really doing a good job in my opinion. I still run mostly Tracer though, so it's not like I threw it all away and switched.

@NOIZYB 2 жыл бұрын

I like telemetry

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Yea, it's each to there own really. I tried to point out the things that didn't bother me and explained why. You would be well suited to the RX that has that extra chip I mention that extends the telemetry range. It cost about $2 more :)

@MaxSMoke777 2 жыл бұрын

He doesn't see it because of the angle, but I can clearly see he's low on the sides of that field. This means his signal has to penetrate a hill, with hundreds of cubic feet of earth absorbing that signal. It's not the trees, man. You are literally passing your signal through a mountain of dirt. If he would just rise up 10 feet, the image would clear in most of those shots.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

I think you've missed the point mate....I was trying to lose video in order to test RC link. No doubt when I was 1 for of the ground there was a lot of earth directly between me an the drone, radio waves are not straight through.

@pav2k 2 жыл бұрын

haha try normal antennas on ELRS, or even mateks diversity receiver, you'll be surprised :)

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Yea, totally going to pick up a Matek selection soon, always trust their hardware.

@MrSabram07 2 жыл бұрын

There's no ceramic in a ceramic antenna what the hell's going on?

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Hahahahah, I know it's a bit weird.

@bobmahbob 2 жыл бұрын

Wait.. they said tbs is the best link in the world. Elrs full of bug.

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

I know right, hahahahha

@NOIZYB 2 жыл бұрын

it depends on the application i not like ERLS i would go ghost 👻

@NOIZYB 2 жыл бұрын

bro one test on one model in one settings is not a real test one module one of everything you need 10 of each of everything

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

lol, take what you will from my test.

@NOIZYB 2 жыл бұрын

they make a higher Dbi antenna for tracer actual you can just buy a higher gain antenna .. but i’ve never had a issue on tracer running in ludicrous mode i’ve been building for 6 years now and same can be said about express just cause you had this experience does not mean everyone else is it’s a big world out there

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the advice

@bongarcon8806 2 жыл бұрын

My RC car TBS lite, vidéo 1.3 GHz ... 8 km ground 😎 mfd rlink 200 m lol is shit 😂 Aliexpress scam me shit mfd datasheet 100 mw not 400 mw-800 mw 😂 StudioSport TBS lite is best 😎

@Bludz 2 жыл бұрын

Not heard of MFD.