Legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin has covered Some of the most notorious figures in U.S. history. Now, in his book “Homegrown: Timothy McVeigh and the Rise of RIght-Wing Extremism,” Toobin takes on the man behind the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing. Toobin puts the incident into historical context by tracing the roots of McVeigh’s actions from the standoff at Ruby Ridge, to President Clinton’s ban on assault weapons, and all the way through the January 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. In this episode of Next Question, he tells Katie, “That's why I wrote Homegrown to show that [McVeigh] was not an aberration. And that his legacy lives on in both people and ideas that are persistent to this day.”
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00:00 Katie reflects on covering the Oklahoma City Bombing while anchoring the Today show
00:25 Why did every expert assume it was done by Middle Eastern terrorists?
03:15 Why Jeffrey Toobin chose this topic to write about for his latest book
05:48 Katie and Jeffrey talk about Jeffrey covering the Terry Nichols and OJ Simpson trials with Katie’s lay husband Jay
06:20 Jeffrey talks about the files donated by Timothy’s McVeigh’s lead attorney - why did he donate them and how helpful were they?
10:08 How has Jeffrey’s understanding of Timothy McVeigh changed since writing this book
13:30 On if there were right wing extremists organizing in the 1990s, and why Timothy McVeigh wasn’t able to connect with more likeminded people
15:09 Jeffrey describes Timothy McVeigh’s personality
18:14 What were McVeigh’s views and how did they align with mainstream republican doctrine at he time
20:05 Reflecting on part of Bill Clinton’s speech from the signing of the Assault Weapons ban
21:11 What would be the reaction from the extreme right if another assault weapons ban went into effect today?
23:00 What was Terry Nichols’ personality, and how did he McVeigh and Mike Fortier meet?
25:24 Mike Fortier’s personality, and McVeigh showing him where he planned to set off a bomb
27:02 Where is Terry Nichols now and how does he view his participation in the Oklahoma City Bombing?
28:08 What impact did McVeigh and Nichols’ trial have on the growing movement of right wing extremists in the U.S.
30:03 Does Jeffrey think anyone else was involved in the Oklahoma City Bombing?
31:21 Why President Clinton immediately thought the bombing was the work of homegrown terrorists
35:21 The story of how Timothy McVeigh was caught and arrested after the bombing
41:06 Why were President Clinton’s comments at the memorial service at the Oklahoma Fairgrounds one of the most consequential of his presidency?
42:23 Merrick Garland’s reaction and response to the Oklahoma City Bombing compared to his reaction and response to January 6th
45:37 Why in 2010 Rush Limbaugh tried to connect Bill Clinton and Janet Reno to the Oklahoma City Bombing and Waco
48:21 What has galvanized the right wing extremist movement?
49:47 What is the state of domestic terrorism today?
52:09 Why is there still a narrative that Waco is responsible for the Oklahoma City Bombing?
53:23 How the events of January 6 saw the “full flowering” of McVeigh’s legacy, and the connection between him and Alex Jones
55:25 Is Jeffrey frustrated by Merrick Garland’s caution with regards to the investigation and prosecution of those involved in the January 6th insurrection?
56:53 Katie and Jeffrey discuss Timothy McVeigh’s wishes to have his ashes spread over the Oklahoma City Bombing Memorial
58:34 Being so close to the 30 year anniversary of the OKC Bombing, reflecting on where we are now vs. where we were then