We at Bondtech are really proud to be working with MirageC on perfecting filament 3D printing. No matter how small the required quality increments may be, at Bondtech we always strive to improve. Actions have been taken and more experimenting will be done. The reverse integrated drive gear is just the beginning. Changes in the moulds that make our plastic main gears were performed. Additional quality controls are in place to minimize the runouts. We are sketching new designs for the gripping teeth. The (r)evolution takes time but doesn't stop here. Thank you MirageC. Great job🙂

Bro wrote and validated an entire PhD thesis and thought we wouldn't notice. What an incredible work. Subscribed.

Ok, that is by far the best 3D printing video that I’ve seen.

Man!!! You made me laugh so hard when i saw that LSD acronym 😄 🤣 😂 Thanks for all research you have made. Incredible amount of work and frustration has gone into this. I was really happy to stand next to you in the process ...just holding your beer was an honor. 3D printing gets better because of guys like you that are passionate and refuse to abandon on your ideals. Im proud of you brother!!! You deserve a huge beer now!!! Love you!! Now rest a bit and regain your sleep that was left on the table in the garage. THANKS!!!!!

This is such a great breakdown of the entire subject. I can’t imagine how much time and effort went into making all of the amazing visuals for this video, but it was definitely worth it for this level of quality - thank you so much!!

The animations of this channel are jaw-dropping ! So much effort and talent put to ilustrate the subject...Everything done with such professionalism ! I'm truly impressed !

I've heard it was the backlash from the idler -- but this makes SO much more sense. Thanks for this!

After watching this video - I ran straight to patreon and signed up for the $7 tier - I loved the deep dive, attention to detail, possible solutions, and everything I saw. Thank you for your hard work!!

MihaiDesigns has done a couple of videos troubleshooting these sorts of patterns. If you print a tapering object, the horizontal bands create a wavey moire pattern that he uses to work out how often (i.e. how many degrees turned of motor/hobbed gear) the variation occurs. Like you he found that the geared idler caused problems, but also the hobbing itself creates a very fine pattern due to ever so slightly varying diameter from the highs and lows of the hobbing.

Mindblowing video, thank you very much 🤩🙏 As always, you manage to make a great balance between theory and practical show casing. A perfect balance for me personally 👍👍👍

excellent work on analyzing this! 👏😎

I cannot belive you are just putting this info out for free. What an incredible deep dive into a problem nobody knew existed. I can't even fathom the time and work that went into this. From the experiments to the CAD model sims this is just downright amazing.

I really hope this can be modded into the latest stealthburner too, and overall becomes a new extruder standard

I’m and Engineer out of the U.K. and this is really good concise work. Nice engineering! Hope to see improvement in the market after your work! 👍🏻

Easily the best 3D printing video ive ever seen with a very deep analysis and testable elimination to find the root cause, you earned my sub.

I started with 3d printing in february and have been hunting the same problem ever since. Thank you, I'm not crazy or too picky!

Glad to hear you are working with Martin and the team at Bondtech. He is a great guy, and always working towards continuous improvement. Between the two of you I am sure you will get an excellent solution figured out.

A nice engineering breakdown, well done. I don't have a background in 3D printing, but I work in the steel industry where we have very similar issues in cold rolling steel. Very small eccentricities in the rolls and thickness variation in the incoming strip translate into out-of-tolerance thickness variation in the rolled sheet steel (and wobbly car doors...). You can't engineer all of it out, so you have to have a dynamic control system to allow for it. Thinking about an analogy here, you would need to have a force or displacement transducer on the idler gear, to measure the effective filament thickness, and an independent measurement of filament speed, say a pulse encoder on another idler wheel. This would enable you to measure actual mass flow through the extruder - what you really want to keep constant. You would then need a controller to apply a correction to the stepper motor drive. This would effectively have two components, a cyclic one to correct for eccentricity and a slower feedback control to allow for fulfillment thickness variation. Sounds complicated, but several million tonnes of steel a year says this sort of system works. Hope this helps!

This is very interesting! I appreciate the research you have done

Brilliant determination and use of the scientific method to discover something overlooked by many, myself included.

C’est un travail de fou que tu as fait sur ce vidéo! WoW je crois que les compagnies qui conçoivent des extrudeurs ont beaucoup à apprendre de tes recherches. Merci j’ai été captivé!

I can't imagine how many hours it took you to make all these (tests-experiments-emails-reading-sketching-video editing and a lot more). Sometimes there are videos like yours that are mind-blowing. Honestly, thank you for your effort, i hope soon this will become available for ordering. Thank you !!!

Yeah this deserves at least $3 a month. Such a great in-depth explanation/breakdown of the problem that didn't go over my head. I also appreciate that I didn't have to wait months for a solutions/testing follow up video.

This is one of the best videos I've seen, technically well explained. You have given me the answer to one of my constant problems, I have a printer built by me, all well tuned, 3 times, and it always presents these artifacts, of course it is direct drive, I had never stopped to think that those tolerances in the extruder could be the cause. You are a genius, thanks for that research, there should be more content like this and not so many empty and unprofessional videos like the ones that abound on youtube. Thanks man..!!!

I recently tested the Microswiss NG. Haven't made a video on it yet, but first prints are looking very smooth. They have a weird thing about machining everything out of billet material, but considering the difference that even a small amount of runout can cause, I think it makes sense to be so meticulous.

Amazing Vid! Once I get my xy-motion system figured out, this will be a great guide on diagnosing a poor extruder.

Additionally, it’s hard work like yours that make the profession and hobby better for all of us. Your determination in solving your issue will make the lives of all of us much easier as a result, thank you.

Here in Brazil we aprecciate your work, brother. Thank you so much for this research, it will help us a lot. Keep it going! All 3D print makers in the world have to thank you.

Bondtech, Mitutoyo, Wera, what a feast for the discerning viewer!

been waiting for someone to finally put in the effort to narrow down exactly what in the extruder causes this issue. You've done a great service, and if we can improve tolerances, this is the next big upgrade in 3d printing. Maybe an easy way to fix the tolerances in bondtech style dual gears is to machine the gears with the 5mm shaft as part of the gear instead of a separate pin that gets inserted and set screwed in. if you're using a lathe to machine the majority of these gears (like you should), this will ensure it is fully concentric and honestly this wouldn't be hard to do at all. the only tolerances you'd be worried about at that point is how the shaft fits into the micro bearings and the 3d printed housing. lol just got into the part of the video where you talk to bondtech and came up with the same solution.

Dude! This is a documentary and free consultation for the whole industry! Thanks for this!

This was amazing! I wish more videos online would have this high of a quality research and info .

I am glad that i became a Patreon thank you for all what you bring to the 3d printing community❤

Absolutely SPECTACULAR work! The level of research and fault isolation is nothing short of professional. Thank you deeply for this!

Thank you for explaining this so well! A few months ago I tried explaining a similar theory to people on a Facebook group and they were too narrow minded to believe this was possible. When dealing with melted plastic you’re also dealing with fluid dynamics. There’s a good bit of pressure built up inside the nozzle and any variances in pressure can most certainly cause inconsistent layers. The long Bowden tube is almost like a surge tank on large hydraulic systems.

This was amazing! Your results really show how important it is to spend the time to isolate variables in research.

Nice video! There's a video on CNC kitchen where he discovered a similar problem after a long search. I think it was about 8 months ago.

This solved a big part of me constantly failing first layer prints. Gaps at intervals was thinking it had to be the fillament and down the rabbit hole i went. A year later i am excited to dust off the printer and re-approach my trouble shooting. Thank you Miragec and Bondtech for continuing to help us learn and improve!

Great video! I just put together a Prusa mk3s and have been endlessly trying to fix calibration issues and I think you just solved it for me

Wow, awesome vid. This is exactly the issue I was having with an OMG extruder. This video would have saved me days of chasing down the issue with mine. Even after finding my issue, I didn't fully understand what was going on until all of your hard work. Well done sir, well done.

Awesome information! I love it! Awesome work! Love those belt clips as well! Appreciate all that you do!

I listened to all the hype and tried to fix what wasn't broken with my modified ender 3, I thought direct drive was the perfect way to go but now I hate my printer more than I ever did before. Your explanation is precise and makes a ton of sense. I never had an issue with print quality before using Capricorn tubing, I am going back to a Bowden tube. I like printing and making, not constantly chasing the problems created,it's counter intuitive to my process. I am very appreciative of your time and efforts in making this video, you sir are a great man. Thank you

My goodness. What an adventure that was. Congratulations on your style, your methods, and your willingness to share this deep dive into things only previously whispered about in the dark recesses of 3D R&D labs. I can now understand far more about what has disappointed me about my new Sprite Extruder Pro Kit. It produces what looks like the very same artefacts. Thank you.

You did very good job on that research! Narrowed it down to just one element at a time and found a problem. Hats off! What comes to my mind is that @MihaiDesigns found out that idler gear makes difference in patterns and created more angled idler door ofr prusa i3. Could be found in this vid -> "What I've learned about your 3D printers (and mine)". And it was a year ago.

Thanks for pushing the 3D Printing limits even further. Great dedication, this is the content I'm rooting for.

Thank you, I am glad you are in conversation with manufacturers. I have heard so many bad things about direct drive extruders, like the diameter change when the two tooth wheels distance changes due to the pressure applied by the spring... I am glad I have a bowden which works just fine. I am very excited on what their solution will be, because only then I might consider changing to a direct drive. One toothwheel with an idler pulley is perfect, two "semi synchronized" are just another factor increasing issues.

I have had this issue for years. I will inspect my extruder's gears and bearings. Thank you so much for the troubleshooting!!!

Hah! I had exactly this problem with my Wade-based designs years ago. (Indeed, with a sufficiently open extruder design, you can see the runout error by eye.) It turns out that a tight fit is critical for both extruder drivegears and also axis pulleys. This exact same effect occurs with XY drive pulleys. Cheap pulleys have a much wider bore than genuine pulleys, which is the entire secret to genuine Gates being better. (And I have done extensive experiments with 2GT pulleys driving a very high resolution encoder to quantify the error...) I have also been working on an even better solution for this for extrusion, too :)

everything explained in this video is great. I'm not wondering why my LGX Lite seems to have this issue also. could it be drive gear and idle hears having lots runout? since there is no grub screw there is only one thing that can cause this. I hope by working with you they improve their own product standards as well. Maybe I can test the runout on these gear and see how much they might have. GREAT WORK! All of us are behind you cheering you on! Thanks for all the great work your doing for our community of plastic pushing gear heads!

This is the very best and most indepth research into an on going issue for all of us in 3d printing. I learned a lot. Thank you for all your hard work.

One element of surface quality that is often forgotten is PID tuning of the heated bed. A well-tuned heated bed PID is important to ensure the bed is not expanding and contracting periodically as the temperature oscillates, which can lead to irregular layers. This symptom is most obvious when "bang-bang" bed heating (more suitable for a bed with a lot of thermal mass) is used instead of PID.

Ender 3 v2s can never be properly tuned. It is fvcked up and the z bar is always slanted

So, what about the proper printing proper extruder, which uses belts to push the filament? That would eliminate this kind of variation

This was a fantastic breakdown. As someone who’s been down this rabbit hole before, my hat’s off to you for finding the actual cause of these defects.

Respect man! Big work! I noticed the same when my bowden gears were worn out a bit + I used 0.05 filament. I replaced the gears, switched to 0.02 filament and the quality is back!

People like you are the ones who build the future one small piece at a time, whenever you get discouraged just remember you are making a positive difference. Keep up the excellent work and you will get everything you deserve.

Congrats MirageC!!! This video is amazing! Super dense and informative...loved it.

Dude you are awesome. I haven't come across anyone who was addressing the issue this clearly.

Amazing analytical work in this video. It's a joy to watch a professional it work.

Well done. You might also look into how the filament is mounted. I don’t believe bowden tube is the only factor in its improvement. I’ve found a side spool mount improved consistency in the flow. Side mount puts the filament closer and directly in line with the bowden extruder. While direct drive has the spool well above the extruder and can cause lags or jumpsx in resistance pulling the filament. I’ve even found side spool holders with bearings improved flow consistency further. I did a video on that as well.

Amazing video! I have always had issues with the layer stacking of direct drive! Finally someone figured it out!

Amazing video!!! The difference between bowden and direct drive became apparent to me rather recently. I am glad someone else noticed the same issue! I have always liked Bondtech extruders, but I think there are still some issues that they need to work through. I have used the BMG on many direct drive setups and have also tried the LGX light extruder, and see the same artifacts that you referred to in this video with both extruders, even though the geometry between the two are drastically different. I have recently switched to the Orbiter 2.0 manufactured by LDO and the difference is surface quality is amazing!! Not perfect, but there is a drastic improvement when compared to both the BMG and the LGX.

I've designed a few 3D printers over the years.... And built other people's designs. This is the one part I could never get perfect - because of the time it would take to diagnose it! You did it, mate! This is without a doubt the best that happened to FDM 3D printing since Klipper. Epic video. Great work!

Man, this is one of the best-looking and detailed 3d printing videos ever created. SUBSCRIBED :)

I know I'm late to the party on this one, but thank you for all your work on this and also thank you to Bondtech for the IDGA/RIDGA sets. I didn't realise this is where they stemmed from I just thought it was a cool innovation, but I really love them for my extruders, since changing my gears sets to genuine Bondtech parts my prints are so much better, no more knock off copies for me!

brother, thanks for the explanation of what I've been observing while assembling my first CW2 SB, just last night !

Thank you so much. I just ordered my first printer, watching KZfaq while waiting on shipment 😊 this was very informative.

I really admire your dedication. I’ve been 3D printing for only about a year now and have run into several of my own struggles. The way you approach problem solving is truly inspiring.

You're one sharp dude! Excellent analysis and a great lesson for those of us trying to get the best surfaces we can. Have a Blessed day!

This opened my eyes to a very similar problem I have with my CR-10s!! Amazing experimentation and really smart thinking. Subbed. Thanks man!

Every time i watch one of your videos my brain starts to melt ,what in depth analysis and experimentations,hat’s off.

Best explanation on 3d printing ever seen in a while!

I have been pulling my teeth out trying to figure this out for ages! Thank you good sir!! I now have some tinkering to do 👍

Fantastic video man, kudos to your efforts, since I know how hard it is to film and edit a video this complex. We need more videos like this in the 3d printing community - no bs, no clowning around, just straight science and experimentation. Keep up the good work.

This is so great, I can't believe someone finally found out why those stupid lines on every single 3-D print is actually happening. Everyone always just assumes it's one thing or another, but I never would have expected that it was actually just that gear at an angle and not very precise gear teeth.

What an insanely well thought-out breakdown of a subject this complex. Keep up the amazing work!

AFAIK Mihai Design was the first to identify the surface problem with dual extrusion gears / direct drive and changed to use a single with a bearing to fix it

You Sir are a master at what you do. As a video creator I can fully understand the time and massive effort you put in to making this video, you have my subscription. I look forward to viewing more of your videos. I have done a good handful of vids on my 5 plus and still working on a few more. I also enjoy coding the ESP8266 and Arduino chip, I have so much to learn. Many thanks for this video

Wow, what an absolute tour de force of mechanical sleuthing, experimentation and analysis! Huge, huge props!!

Now This is some f'n science right here. Great work figuring out what no one has for so many years. The whole time press fit gears turned out not to be the enemy I guess.

I've spent more then year for resolve this problem and... don't resolve it yet... Thanks for your experiments! It's a huge and grate job!

This is the first video of you that I saw, and I'm must tell you that I impressed by the quality of your research and the video editing. and the thing I like the most is the logical order that you explained so good. Thank you for your video 🙏🏼

awesome video, damn rarely see something this quality popping randomly in my recommendations, subscribed for sure.

The LSD dig was very funny. Good stuff. Thanks for the deep analysis and great video also

Another video in the ctrl+v roster! Thank you for the deep dive! PS: That bro moment between you and vez was beautiful

This was a fun video to watch, I love how you took us for a ride the entire time showing us your thought process and theory’s. Amazing job!

How is this channel not bigger!? This content is top of the line! Amaizing prezention, huge amount of work and details put in. Thank you for sharing this@

The most informative 3DP video I’ve ever seen, hands-down. Being an engineer, it’s like a warm fuzzy blanket of numbers :)

Thank you very much for the extensive information shown in the video! 4 days ago i printed a test cube and had awful layer variation in it. Really didn't know why, in hindsight after watching your video probably i messed something up working on my sherpa micro extruder some time ago. Watching your video just now is really more than just perfect timing.

still finishing the video, but WOW! You have put so much time and delivered a clear and thought provoking video. Great Work!

When I built my clockwork extruder for my first Voron I discovered that the gears were slightly too far apart and that caused backlash and big extrusion inconsistency. By moving the gears to mesh tightly this helped hugely. But having the gears too tightly together also caused issues. Now I use lgx extruders which are pretty good out of the box. Over extrusion was the main issue for me. And getting it spot on helps achieve perfect layers. I calculate extrusion factor by watching for gaps between walls. Lowering it as far as possible until gaps appear between walls. Lowering it way lower than I ever thought you could. Like 0.84 for PLA. No measuring wall thicknesses with callipers anymore. I just haven’t looked back.

Thanks for making this video, I'm pretty sure I've finally narrowed down an issue I've been trying to fix for months.

It seems one variable being overlooked is we all assume the filament is homogeneous, uniform, and otherwise perfect in every way. We all assume it is perfectly consistent in color, density, melting at the hot-end at its ideal temperature. This is something we cannot control.

Best video about a 3d printing problem I have ever seen.

i am about to jump in to 3d printing this is amazing how the smallest of microns a print can vary keep us upto date with new extruder great video mate

You deserved my subscription after watching the intro!!

This is the quality content people need, you just earned yourself a sub

One of THE MOST informative videos I’ve seen! Thanks!

Thank You thats genius. I designed based on your HEVORT a new compact machine and i use a BMG WIND all metal Extruder from Aliexpress. For my surprise my prints a very good and maybe the redesign of HEVORT helped a little. Thank you for the great work and great machine and sharing the CAD Files.

Amazing video, never would I have thought something like that would make such a huge impact on the print quality.