I knew the flight engineer on the B-17, his name was Curt. He flew me on a Cessna years back and was part of the reason I became so interested in aviation. When we were flying I asked him, “So why do you do this?”, he responded, “Because flying is the most relaxing thing I do!” RIP Curt and everyone else who lost their lives that day. I’m now studying aerospace engineering due partly to what Curt said to me that day.

Correction, the “air boss” is not an air traffic controller. He is a choreographer who works for the show. That’s the problem. They used to use controllers for these show at airports but they want the control of the show. Controllers don’t do crap like you hear on this tape.

The Airboss allowed the aircraft to all fly at the same height, he also kept the bombers further out from the crowd at the 1000' line while letting the fighters on the closer line. As the bombers were making larger turns in the circuit this put the fighters on the inside of the turns so they had to cross the bombers paths to get to that closer crowd line. This also increased their speed as they had to overtake and worse bank sharper which lowered their visibility. There's no reason they couldn't have flown two separate circuits with the fighters on the outside at all times as their higher speed would allow them to fly the larger circuit quicker to get the over the flighline timings correct and keep everything together. This also affords the fighters the best view possible of the bombers at all times in turns as they appear above in the canopy and aren't obstructed by the engine, wing or sometimes thicker portion of the canopy hoop frame. Or you have them separated by half a circuit at all times regardless. . . Huge fuck up from the Airboss in planning.

Firstly I support warbirds and air shows. Secondly it’s senseless to have it this complicated and thus increasing risk. There is no reason they couldn’t be separated by altitude, or sequenced through air show center. I’m a pilot in in low level busy airspace operations- however no air show experience, so from the outside looking in it just seems ridiculous to organize what could be a simple and safe fly past for the audience to see and hear the aircraft. Why turn it into a complex, busy airspace without positive separation as a back up safety measure. I mean my god all you’re there to do is display the aircraft. The fact that the air boss is that busy on the radio giving , or having to give that much instruction is the first indicator this is too risky for the type of operation. Dumb down the complex traffic in the display and keep it simple! you’re not hero’s out there saving lives, why make it so hard on yourself. Sorry , been bugging me since it happened- RIP to those who lost their lives

This loss absolutely infuriated me. Easily could’ve been avoided.

Yep, that Air Boss is in deep shit because he told the pilots what to do and when to do it, and coordinating a Pyrotechnics show for the spectators. When the Air Boss changed the flying pattern for the bombers and fighters, he started a chain of events that resulted in a deadly mid air collision.

The worst part is the loss of life but those planes are also a huge loss, so much history.

imho, The air boss was running his mouth like an auctioneer. Not communicating any valuable information to the pilots. He added to the confusion

The fact that this doesn't happen more often at airshows is amazing. It takes so much hard work, coordination, and communication to set up. As a pilot, flying your line to precision while keeping aware of other aircraft is a whole other thing.

Air boss never should have let them fly at the same level that close to each other

This is criminal-level negligence on the air boss’ part.

My youngest daughter's first flight, of any kind, was on this very aircraft, Texas Raiders. I have the crew picture with some of the gentleman that perished in Dallas. She has flown in numerous WWII era aircraft at various shows and this pursuit has shaped her education and career path. Our whole family has had unique experiences in these vintage birds and it's done a lot to contribute to my children's appreciation and knowledge of history. I'm profoundly sorry for the lives lost. I hope protocols are created to protect the people who dedicate themselves to this invaluable gift to future generations.

That guy is NOT an Air Traffic Controller. He’s an Air Show Controller, but I very much doubt he’s got an ATC ticket.

I'm sorry Looks like the Air Boss didn't have enough experience.. you NEVER, turn to the inside of another aircraft when flying in close proximity to another Aircraft...Never! He made it sound that all was clear. RIP Guy's.

My dad works for the faa and this story gets a lot sadder then you could ever imagine

My Dad and I flew in this exact plane years before at a small air show in Sabinal, TX…He rode back in one of the waste gunner positions…I was fortunate enough to ride in the nose in bombardier seat. When I found out it was Texas Raiders that went down, I got the most nauseating stomach ache…My heart sank…God be with the families of these men.

SO many experienced people involved, yet SO much (unchallenged) stupidity. RIP my fellow pilots, Mike x

So sad. God Bless all who are/were affected!

For anyone wondering “knock it off” means it ain’t a drill and something serious has happened or something dangerous could happen and everything must stop immediately

What I learned from 3 years as an Air Boss. The Air Boss is not even supposed to talk to the pilots. I don't care whether he is a trained air traffic controller, pilot, or a circus clown. That is NOT his job. The job of the Air Boss is to sequence all aircraft events, oversee all safety procedures, oversee all event briefings, and MANAGE the events, NOT control airspace, arrivals departures and aircraft movements. The job of the air traffic controller is to control aircraft movement through controlled airspace, provide arrival and departure sequences and clearances, provide separation in the air and on the ground, and direct aircraft movement on the ground. There are Tower controllers, approach and departure controllers, ground controllers, ramp controllers. They clear aircraft for engine start, taxi, takeoff, climb, descent, approach and landings. Controllers do NOT control airshow maneuvers. Airshow pilots are responsible for safe operations of their aircraft, ensuring separation, and complying with and conforming to pre-determined, pre-briefed formation and individual maneuvers designed and developed for the airshow. The expectation is that every maneuver has been designed for both safety and audience impact, taking into consideration the aircraft capabilities and pilots' proficiencies, and that all pilots have rehearsed are at least briefed themselves or each other in every maneuver. THE ONLY PERSON WHO SHOULD BE TALKING on the radio during the actual AIRSHOW MANEUVERS is the flight lead. The lead pilot calls out pre-determined, pre-briefed, and previously rehearsed maneuvers, giving short, unmistakable instructions to commence, continue, break off or terminate each maneuver. All other pilots reply with short words like "Two," "Three," for their flight positions or "Copy," "Commencing," etc. Every maneuver must have a pre-briefed emergency "break away" or "knock it off" maneuver, designed to separate all participants in the fastest possible time, either laterally or vertically. That's how airshows are run. The Air Boss is the Coach, the air traffic controllers are the referees and umpires, and the lead pilot is the Quarterback. He calls the plays. The referees keep everyone in line. Every play is memorized from the playbook. There may be options for each play, but the Coach doesn't run around screaming at players on the field to run left or right or stop or go. That's what happened at Dallas. The Air Boss turned himself into a controller, lead pilot and cheerleader all in one. He wasn't even supposed to be talking on the radio.

WTF was that? "I want you to"? "Roll for me"? It's not a place for improvised manouvers. And literally the sound of his pants filling when he hysterically screamed for the trucks...

In the UK, most air display teams (certainly the military ones, and I think the civillian ones as well) plan their displays before the start of the season and have to perform the display safely in front of either a senior RAF officer or someone from the Civil Aviation Authority to confirm them as safe before they are permitted to display. From then on, they will perform the same display routine throughout the season (although the Red Arrows have three displays that they perform depending on cloud height). There are occasionally special combination flypasts such as the Red Arrows in V-formation with an other aircraft, or a mass Spitfire flypast, but these are usually single-pass flypasts with no changes of formation. The most complicated flypast is the Birthday Flypast over central London, but that is again carefully planned. There is no "making it up on the fly" as appears to be happening here.

I cringed after listening to the full 36 minutes of audio that was released. Too jovial, too many thank you's, and you're doing a good job.

With everyone talking about the loss of the aircrew and the B-17, nobody seems to mention the other aircraft involved, a P-63 Kingcobra. The P-63 was the world's last 'F' model and one of five left airworthy at the time.

There’s a professional that does a breakdown of the full audio on a YT channel. Once you hear it, the airboss is likely looking at manslaughter charges it seems. Very sad

Their supposed to have the flight worked out before flying not changing it on the fly

This is absolutely heartbreaking. That fast and those aircrew were already dead. The only thing that comes to mind is please God we hope you made their crossover faster than fast and with zero pain for them.

The big question remains… Why was there no Altitude separation between the fighters and the bombers which is pretty much standard at airshows to improve safety.

I live in Conroe where it was kept and its so quiet without hearing it fly over my house anymore it was such a beautiful thing to hear and always made my day

'Texas Raiders' was based in Conroe, but regularly flew into Ellington Field near my house. Many days I would hear it approach and step out into the back yard to watch it fly over. Guess I took it for granted, a bit. Lately it has seemed awfully quiet in my neighborhood, with the only air traffic I seem to take notice of is helicopters buzzing by. Sad to think she's gone, especially sad for those families. RIP.

All I heard was one guy (air boss) keying the mic and walking all over the pilots.

This is so tragic in not just its loss of life, but the loss of one of the precious few airworthy B17s left anywhere in the world. my heart goes out to the families of the aviators lost, as well as the crews responsible for restoring and maintaining these amazing aircraft, because I know they felt the loss the the machine just as strongly as the loss of life.

When I learned of the pattern they were flying it was clear to me that there are two pinch points where the aircraft of different sizes and speeds would be very close to each other. Sad. My thoughts to out to the families affected...

Heartbreaking!!!! Prayers to all involved!!!!

Guess who's never going to be an air boss again...

Condolences to those affected by this tragedy

Airboss is Not a Air Traffic Controller!!

It must be very difficult to organise so many aircraft in such a small area.Alot of B17's and 24's were lost in mid air collisions from airfields in the Uk during the war.The formation aircraft was typically very brightly coloured( polker dots) etc so it was highly visible formating several bomber groups from different airfields.But still aircraft collided.

The difficulty came by the figure 8 flown by all the participants. Simple rule would be all aircrafts overtaking others aircrafts do it by passing them outside the curve beeing flown, which is the rule in Reno for example. This simple rule make sure that overtaking aircrafts always have visuals on other slower aircrafts while in the turn. But Reno is always a constant (left) turn so this simple rule is easy to implement and put to practice. Now this is where the issue of figure 8 comes into play becuase you have half the figure flown with right truns the other half with left turns. That means that for this same rule to apply (always overtake on the exterior of the turn) you have to cross the pattern at some point. I think this is how it should have been done instead of trying to seperate constantly the bomber tracks with the fighters tracks like it was done in Dallas. If you put the faster aircrafts on separate tracks they will be overtaking the slower ones inside the curve during the figure 8 figure and this is the most dangerous.

Honestly having that much air traffic flying so close to one another is doomed to happen with all these risks. They shouldnt have been flown that close to each other. RIP to the pilots and crew onboard!

Whatever you do, don’t remain calm and give incident information to responding units, just repeat one phrase over and over.

He knew it was his fault you can hear it in his voice when he yelled ROLL THE TRUCKS a fifth time.

My grandfather, who devoted the latter half of his life to researching, visiting, and recovering wreckage from American World War II plane wrecks such as all of these from across Florida had seen stuff like this several times throughout his childhood in the 40s. One that I will always recall until the end of my days was the story he told me of watching the first Blue Angels air show disaster happen in Jacksonville back in 1947. It's sad to say that things like this are still happening, and people are still dying trying to pilot these beautiful pieces of machinery that are also dying. Reply to this if you would like to hear the story.

It was the air boss who caused that to happen. I hope he goes to jail for a very long time.

chilling.... I have flown 2x on a17, (909 which crashed), 2x on a 24 and 1x on a 25.... I was planning on attending the next day... had attended all the previous CAF Dallas shows the last few years. being up in aWWII bomber is one of the highlights of my life (73 yo)... told my sons, if anything happens to me up there, I would have been doing something I love.....again, chilling, but I'm ready to go up anytime....

Sadly, this incident is the air bosses blame

I never flew in an air show but I cannot see being reliant on a person on the ground to coordinate so many aircraft in close proximity with his mark IV eyeball alone.

Takes my breath away! I worked with these Ladies and Gentlemen, pre-show, for their formation training, for 19 years. I am grateful for their dedication. Blind. Break out level and rejoin later. Sorrow.

Heartbreaking to hear this as it happened!

Those fighters should have been 100’ higher from the bombers. Making that left turn would put the bombers out of view into a potential fatal blind spot from the fighters flying at the same altitude. There is absolutely no way a pilot can see below the engine mount. Who ever was in charge…Air Boss…should be liable for this accident. There were other airshows that use different altitudes for this very reason. Perhaps this airport was stuck in one or two airports with congested airspaces. RIP to the pilots, crew and their families.

Not only was he inept at trying to control that many aircraft by himself, then he's telling the fighter planes that are supposed to be to the left of the bombers to pull up and to the right, which means they're going to go into the bombers? Whiskey Tango Foxtrot did this man think he was doing?

i remember several months prior seeing the same B-17 with the same regristration number fly over my house and get lit up with joy when i saw it. now im devastated that it crashed. thoughts and prayers to those involved

Such a sad day my heart goes out to all the families and the people that were attending😢

Sad for the loss of life and the loss of irreplaceable historical aircraft.

The ‘air boss’ over complicated everything.

An orchestra conductor that doesn’t follow the musical score is a failure, but his failure won’t lead to death and destruction. A symphony’s performance or an air show is no place for improvising. The air master failed to follow the choreography.

Toured this airplane in Bowling Green KY when it visited the Airport there just a few months before this crash. Heartbreaking loss!!!

Absolutely heartbreaking 😢😢😢

I’m so sad that these people died this way taking all their passion and knowledge for these treasured aircraft with them. And I can’t believe we lost a beloved B17.

Things were not going as they should beforehand. The way they should be going is that everyone has already come up with a routine beforehand that is well choreographed and practiced. Is clear that this routine was all made up by the air boss on the fly, to a large extent at least, so mistakes were bound to happen. He also broke several other rules. blancolirio does a really good job explaining why that's such a bad idea.

If your father was a great athlete, it doesn't necessarily make you an athlete.

I would've got the craft to separate by altitude first then one craft type at a time, change formation before trying the close proximity again. I'm not a controller I'm just picturing it in my head. This just sucked I've been somewhat following it from here in Australia. RIP Gentlemen.

Wow looks like two factors contributed to the accident. One huge mistake and another contributing to the accident. The huge error was the Pilot failed to maintain altitude separation during an maneuver in close proximity to another aircraft and maintain visual contact with the bomber, a know aircraft in the immediate vicinity. The contributing factor is the Air Boss instructed the P-39 to get in front of the bomber knowing the P-39 was almost perpendicular above and in front of the bomber prior to the request. That would require the P-39 to eventually fly in front and then cross the bombers path to get to the right side of the bomber. It appears to me the Air Boss's request is not prudent and should have requested the P-39 pilot to keep the bomber in sight and fly behind the bomber to keep the bomber in full view the whole time while transitioning to the bombers right, next to the "Outside edge of the runway". In addition at no point did I hear the Air Boss tell the fighters to drop altitude. The responsibility maintain visual contact does rest with the pilot during changes in position. That's just my unprofessional opinion. So sad to see this happen to such talented pilots and aircraft. Best Wishes & Blessings to all involved co-workers, crew, family and friends. Keith Noneya

I never knew until now how disorganized these airshows really are! An "air boss" calling the shots with his eyes as these planes close in on one another only a few hundred yards off the ground. These events need to be planned out well in advance or discontinued all together.

Air boss guilty of causing death by criminal negligence, pilots guilty of failing to question the un rehearsed sequence and failing to maintain vertical separation either of which would have prevented the incident . This was not an accident, an accident is an unforeseen event .

The fighters NEVER should have been on the inside line and at the same altitude. This accident could have been and SHOULD have been prevented.

Craig Hutain obviously made a huge mistake and fly straight into the B17.

If you let Amateurs run wild you get this.

poor airboss must of been the worst day of his life just the way he says "lets go" you hear the emotion kick in.

very confusing overload of instructions from controller/choreographer, a distraction rather than help,

The Air Boss screwed this up. The P-63 should have merged on the B-17 through a turn that put the B-17 on the inside of their turn and with altitude de-confliction. As it went, the P-63 couldn't see the B-17 because of his bank angle and the B-17 pilots couldn't see the Aircobra because it was out of their field of view. They were on a collision course, and all the pilots were blind to each other.

He was out of his depth by a long shot. You think you know until you learn the hard way that you don't

Heartbreaking. This is an inherently dangerous thing. Everyone involved knows this. Try not to judge, folks. We all make errors... every day... no matter who you are or what you do.

"It _sounds_ as though all is going as it should." Top notch reporting there. The guy would have been a great addition to the writer's room on Game of Thrones Season 8.

We're done flying B-17. Out of tens of thousands built only 50-ish exist and only 4 can still fly. Its just not worth it anymore.

100% the air boss is responsible. It was his first time and will be his last.

I had no idea that was how this happened I thought the pilots were just being dangerous I was thinking how irresponsible of them but now i realize they were just following directions how tragic for all involved I hope next time I can learn to reserve judgement until I learn more Rest In Peace all involved

There's no reason to rely on one guy's very difficult-to-understand instructions to keep these planes separated. The airboss sounded too cool for school. Too much yapping, not enough clear instructions.

"Knock it off". Is that standard ATC phrasing? I don't know anything about the subject, but these directions seemed incomplete and far too general for such congested air space.

Blancolirio on KZfaq is a decorated pilot and did an in-depth dive on this. He sorts out how and why this happened..

I feel awful for the ATC, I hope he doesn't blame himself for the accident. Such a misfortune. The loss of the irreplaceable WW2 B-17 pales in comparison to the loss of life, it's just a chunk of metal but those lives are gone forever and a lot of families are broken because of it.😔

What a tragic loss of human life.

This amounts to briefing in the air as opposed to a preflight briefing with everything orchestrated before the mission began, thus setting the stage for a catastrophe.

I knew this was the fault of the air boss from the first second I saw the video. It is their responsibility to keep separation and this never happened. So many mistakes lead to a sad end.

Amateur hour at every level. The FAA needs to put this group out of business for good. This was not their first fatal accident.

Why is everyone blaming the air boss?

Absolutely devastating

Like many folks, and as as I pilot myself, who has been involved in several air shows, I too have come to my own conclusion that the Air Boss may have stacked his house-of-cards a bit too high. Nevertheless, the honest reality is that until the full inspection and investigation is released……nobody as yet has enough info to cast blame on anyone or any process/procedure. Still, as the P63 pilot, I would have been nervous as hell to point the floor of my airplane toward a B17 that I know is very nearby in that same direction….but that is just me. My guts are sick to the point of hurling my last meal every time I think of all those who died in this tragic situation. 🥺 God bless all those who were involved in any way + their families!

Reporter is ignorant. Air Boss is NOT a Air Traffic Controller!

Rest in peace sirs

Was that guy sitting in that bubble compartment when it crashed? 😢

Why do they have to do crazy stuff like this? It would be nice just to see one of those old bombers cruise by on its own. I dont need to see rolls and all that fancy stuff. Just seeing these old war planes is enough.

I met the pilots once . So Sorry 😢

Heart breaking :(

I'm a little confused as to why they didn't have an actual ATC person controlling this....

Air boss caused it. Needs prison time.

The air boss is not an air traffic controller. It’s just some guy trying to make a show look good. Obviously he didn’t help.

No reason to have air shows at all.

That B17 and its crew flew to my hometown once a year... it was an honor to see you fly.

The salient issues associated with the faults of this air show are presented in this video by Juan Browne on the Blancolirio Channel: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eZlkZceXs7anqZs.html