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IF the timeline were represented in the movies, at Bilbo’s party, Pippin wouldn’t have been messing around with fireworks, he would have been one of those little tots hearing Bilbo tell his troll story!

When I read the books years ago, I remember thinking that it was very relevant that Frodo was older than the other Hobbits. It meant he had a more mature and experienced understanding of the world. At 50 I guess he was the equivalent of a a human in his early 30s - educated, fully grown, world-wise for a Hobbit. The other hobbits are “young men in their late teens, very early 20s” in human terms. In the WW1 context, none of them are experienced in war. But Frodo is the landed class, serving older officer (a major, or a captain) to Merry and Pippin’s newly-made, young upper class lieutenants - and Sam is Frodo’s working class “batman.” These are types Tolkien was very familiar with.

Honestly, Im most saddened we didnt get Gandalf basically yelling in Frodo's window "I swear to god of you don't open this damn door..."

In my head canon, when Gandalf is reading out loud, and says 3434, he's just beginning. He kind of mumbles a bit as he reads on, sort of skipping ahead, until he gets to the point seven years later, and reads the account of Isildur cutting the One Ring from Sauron's hand. In other words, while he doesn't voice the year 3441, he skims over the account of the siege, and picks up reading more carefully again when he finds the account he's looking for. As I've said, that's just head canon, but it's the impression the scene gave me.

I feel you left out something from when Gandalf told Frodo about the ring. In the book, It is decided that Frodo will travel with the ring, but there is no immediate urgency. Frodo wanted to leave in a manner that wouldn't draw attention and also later in the Fall. He doesn't just pack up and flee out of the Shire, like in the movie. He takes his time, plans his trip, and even sells Bag End to the Sackville-Bagginses. Then moves to Crickhollow and buys a house in Buckland.

That bit about Farmer Maggot telling the Nazgûl off is something I never thought about but agree that it should have been shown. I always thought it was so cool that a hobbit essentially scared a Nazgûl away by simply threatening him with his dogs. Sure, the Nazgûl knew full well he could take the dogs; and Farmer Maggot probably had an inkling of this too; but it’s cool nonetheless. Edit: I wasn’t planning on doing this, but it’s getting kinda annoying having everyone and their mother tell me, “Farmer Maggot didn’t scare off the Nazgûl!” I know that. I’m well aware that the Nazgûl wasn’t scared in the least. I worded the comment badly. I’m sorry if this upsets you.

Watching along and you had my interest until "and we only watch the extended edition here, as that is the only way to watch the trilogy" ... and now you have my attention. And my thumbs up.

When I first read the books, I looked all over for a series like this, and it was criminally underdeveloped. I love your series and look forward to each episode.

“The wide world is all about you; you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out” LOTR p.82

I like the “coward hobbit scene.” It quickly communicates great danger; otherwise, all they would need against a black rider is a dog.

It's ironic though that despite the length of the 3 books, the total journey from the time that Frodo left Hobbiton on September 22, to Sauron's destruction on Mar 25, was a mere 6 months. And Frodo spent approximately 90ish days resting, 10/21st-12/25, and then some unknown period in Lothlorien roughly a month's time, and then the time that he spent in Henneth Anun 1-2+ days.

An important note about the last battle of men and elves- in the movie version Sauron was displaced or disembodied after the ring was cut from his hand, but the novel version explains that Sauron was somehow beat down or incapacitated in some way, and then Isildur cut the ring from his hand. The novel version also explains that Gilgalad was literally incinerated when grasped by Sauron.

Peter Jackson actually kept the 17 year gap. He talked about it in an interview that the gap reflects on making bilbo look much older when they get to Rivendell. Peter Jackson kept it very open for his future projects which never happened. It might happen now since Peter Jackson and Andy cerkis are working on “the hunt for gollum”. (Which was during those 17 years)

Farmer Maggot threatened Frodo with his dogs, when Frodo was young, because he was stealing mushrooms. Bearing in mind that Frodo was the same age as Bilbo when he set off on his own adventure - 50 years old - Farmer Maggot, one would assume, would have to be significantly older. If the Hobbit who directed the black rider to Hobbiton is supposed to be Farmer Maggot, he is too young and too frightened. Farmer Maggot kicked bottoms!

Still the best book to film adaptation of any kind ever.

"Underhill, my name is Underhill" 17 years summed up in a single line.

The timeline in Tolkiens writing is MUCH longer than you’d guess. Like in certain parts there will be 1000s of years that pass in pages. Then he’ll spend 100 pages on the span of a day. Admittedly once the fellowship gets moving time passes fairly plainly.

I’m rereading the books before my 18th since the last time I read them was when I was eleven, I really like these videos and I look forward to them every week.

Jackson was really trying to raise the tension and sell the Black Riders as scary, menacing slasher villains. If, in their first encounter, they get chased off a farm by an NPC, it really undercuts their menace. All for the sake of a character that has no bearing on the story? Doesn’t seem worth it to me.

I remember a few months back I watched the trilogy and my brother recommended I watch the regular editions first, but knowing I might never watch it again, I went with extended editions. What a great weekend

I always had some thought over the whole “searched everywhere for the creature…” thing and like “WHEN THOUGH!?”. Seemed like it had been a weekend trip.

I enjoy the books I love movies. I hate amazon's rings of power. It is painfully obvious.They don't care one bit for JRR Tolkien's legacy

I actually liked the change to the farmer scene. It makes Nazgul much more threatening. First part of the book is much more "fairy-taily", less serious, and the scene works as a joke like "this old man is scarier then the Devil himself!", but in the movie it doesn't work that well. Remember, it's the first time we see Nazgul "up close". And the first time we see him he's afraid of the old grumpy hobbit and his dog. Most of the viewers will say "Huh! This guy is not a threat!". But with this scene we see that something REALLY bad and dangerous is comming, and it's already here.

Perfect time for this type of analysis. I’m starting my summer reading by rereading the fellowship and this is an awesome compliment.

Just discovered your channel. I like this idea and it's done well. You have got some good early traction too. Well done. One more thing re. the conversation at bag-end about the ring; in the movie Gandalf is afraid to even touch the ring but in the book, he holds it up and looks at it before throwing it in the fire. A small, but I feel important difference.

I’m glad to hear someone give Farmer Maggot his props. I choose to believe that the hobbit we saw in the movie was his neighbor

I knew and remembered all that, but well done. It's nice to see a proper analysis of the differences. I assume you'll be talking about that later (or maybe already have, it's been a week after all), but I did like how, in the book, Gandalf and Frodo plan this entire thing of Frodo moving from Bagend to another part of the Shire, and coordinating with Merry who lives there (and Pippin who's just helping), and I *think* Maggot... or was it someone else? Maggot also was acquainted with Tom Bombadil, so he's really an awesome stand-up guy. The archetypal sturdy honest farmer, really.

Yes I did know that there was a 17 year gap, and I would have liked that to be shown in the movies.

I watched the films first, and I was genuinely surprised how long it took for Frodo to go on his journey. It explained very well why it took Gandalf so long, but still surprised.

When I was watching this movie as a child I thought Gandalf leaving and coming back happened in less than 24 hours. The shot of the Hobbits returning home after a night out looks like it could be the end of Bilbo's birthday celebration. There is no proper indication of time passing or the distance travelled by Gandalf other than the sun being in the sky when Gandalf arrives in the city. So in my mind it went like this: Gandalf leaves during Bilbo's celebration -> he travells for the whole night -> arrives in the morning in some city -> returns the next night when the Hobbits finally finish the birthday celebration.

00:07 Yes. Because I've read the books but have yet to see the movies.

I believe the reason that Sam and Frodo were presented as friends in the movie is primarily because there is no good American equivalent to the relationship that they had. If an American audience was presented with the idea that Frodo and Sam were master and servant, they would probably assume that the inequality made it impossible for any deep bond to form. However, I believe that in England at the time Tolkien was writing, it wasn't too uncommon for people to develop close deep bonds with people who were actually butlers or other types of servants. So Frodo and Sam's relationship doesn't really have a good parallel in American society. A good example of the type of relationship that I mean would be Lord Peter Wimsey and his butler Bunter in Dorothy Sayers' detective series. Although they have a master and servant relationship, each of them has risked their life for the other at least once over the course of the series.

I have read the books countless of times, but only seen the films once, and there was so much missing from the films I was trying to cope with that I didn´t even realize Frodo left Shire only about a year after Bilbo. It doesn´t make much sense, because one of the important themes in the book is Frodo´s longing for Bilbo and his doubt about whether he will see him ever again and the great joy and surprise when he meets him again in RIvendel after 17 years.

One interesting change is Frodo’s reaction to Gandalf throwing the ring into the fire. In the film, he appears to be more puzzled by Gandalf’s seemingly erratic behavior, whereas the book makes it clear that Frodo is horrified by the ring being potentially damaged and immediately tries to retrieve it, thus showing how much the ring already has ensnared him. I wish that had stayed.

Thank you for this video series! I recently started rereading the books and I'm really enjoying your analysis! Something that struck me when I reread this chapter was that Frodo kept the ring on a chain in his pocket for those 17 years. I was surprised that it didn't have a greater influence on him since he was carrying it around all that time, compared to the movie where he puts it in an envelope in a chest. Please keep these excellent videos coming!

Farmer Maggot is indeed a boss, and has an interesting relationship with Tom Bombadil, as revealed in the Tolkien Reader.

Gaffer is the younger one next to Frodo - with the pipe. When frodo says cheers "Gaffer" he responds "aye"

I rewatched the extended edition yesterday and Sandyman and Gaffer talk about Dwarves and unsavory folk being around the Shire and I always thought he was referring to the Dwarf Company Bilbo departed with all those years ago. I had forgotten about the Dwarves Frodo encountered.

The removal of the 17 year gap also ties into the character assassination of Merry and Pippin. I'll admit that the characters work very well in the movies and I understand that the backstory for their involvement had to be changed, but I still think it is a pity.

Frodo / Bilbo share the same birthday, so he continued throwing a party for the both of them every year after the big party to celebrate not just Bilbo's birthday, but both of them.

Funny story: the first time I saw the movies (before I read the books, I was a kid still lol) I remember when Gandalf told Sam that he was going with Frodo. And Sam begged not to be turned into an anything. We see a shot of Frodo leaving with his donkey or mule or whatever and for a second I honestly thought Gandalf had turned Sam into an animal to “help him on his travels” lol. I truly believe this shot was intentional and the director was toying with us as we see Sam run up behind them a few seconds later.

That’s why I’m so glad there’s a great fan-film about the Hunt for Gollum. It sort of fills a gap there, but yeah..

Love this channel. I also really like the music, it goes very well with what you show.

They showed the Hobbit being intimidated by the Black Rider because they wanted to communicate that the primary weapon of the Nazgul is fear. In the books they have a lot more time to build up the aura of the Nazgul - for instance, Frodo is described as being creeped out by the voice he hears coming from around the bend, talking to Gaffer Gamgee.

I like it how you say Sandyman like people say Spiderman with the hard emphasis on the Man part of the name.

Yeah i did, ive read the book many times. One of the problems with the films is that they portray the relationship as a bromance rather than that of master and devoted servant. Which is also the reason why they werent gay.

I never associated the hobbit scared of the Nazgûl in the movie as being Farmer Maggot. Comparing to a few scenes later when the hobbits are in Farmer Maggots crops and he is chasing them, the voices sound completely different.

Thank you so much , keep the amazing work !

One big (or smear) change is that Gandalf actually handles the ring with his hand - mostly before being absolutely sure about what ring it is. Just a small fan fact

As well as Frodo's maturity (advanced age) over the other 3 hobbits, there is also little to no attention in the films given to the fact that Frodo, Merry and Pippin are all upperclass (landed gentry in Frodo's case) gentry while Sam is working class. Sam is actually Frodo's employee, not his friend at the beginning of the film. He follows Frodo on his adventures out of social classes inherent loyalty to their masters. And their friendship only blossoms during their adventures. I suspect that the social nuances of this would go largely unnoticed by international audiences.

I dont mind the farmer Maggot change because I interpret it as PJ trying to establish the intimidation factor of the Wraiths beforehand. Same reason Tom Bombadil isnt included. Establish the fear of Sauron's power early.

Peter Jackson proofs he is the best adaptation Director of all time.

As much as I love the Peter Jackson movies, Frodo really was done dirty in these adaptations.

Granted, you wouldn’t be reading every line of dialogue omitted from the movie, but I seriously regretted the lack of Gandalf’s full response to Frodo saying “it is a pity [Bilbo] didn’t kill [Gollum]”

The actual reason Frodo and Sam weren't "Friends" in the American sense is a class difference not an age difference. Sam is not of the same class as the other three who were all from a richer class of Hobbit while he just lived in a little house with his gaffer. He was an employee. Doesn't mean that there isn't affection both ways.

remembering the book, indeed a lot was not shown in the film. But the film works, even if 20 pages are condensed into a single scene or even completeley left untold. The movie creates a sense of urgency and conveys it for the movie goer. Also, Ian McKellen is superb as Gandalf.

I loved the movies, and I'm glad they happened because I tried to read the books a couple times but I could never make it past the birthday party. It was too damn long and slow for me. And I love to read.

Well I learned something new today. About Farmer Maggot 😁

Watching the movies without paying close attention, I thought he left the day after Bilbo's birthday

Farmer Maggot is a very underrated character. Even Tom Bombadil has respect for him.

I would argue that the gap in the film between Bilbo's birthday party and the departure of Frodo & Sam is almost exactly one year. Otherwise, we have to imagine that everything that happens between the party and the Council of Elrond takes place in just over a month, which doesn't seem credible (unless Gandalf can teleport!).

The scene with the presumably killed elderly hobbit in the top hat can be compared to a scene in Chapter 11 "A Knife in the Dark". After the nazguls discover that the ring is not still in Crickhollow, Buckland, they ride off as fast as they can towards Bree. One line shows their unprovoked and unnecessary brutality: "They rode down the guards at the gate and vanished from the Shire." As bad as it feels that they've changed farmer Maggot, from a cinematic perspective it's completely legit. The film is in this moment building the image of the Nazguls as very unpleasant and terrifying invaders. Then there is neither space nor consistency to portray the hobbits as anything other than defenseless victims. Their sturdiness may be expressed later and in other ways. Otherwise, the film just loses power, commitment and ability to build threats and antagonists.

The Nazgûl are far more threatening in the films. In the first book, they seem more ominous than creepy like they do in the movie. If Jackson had show Farmer Maggot telling them off and them just leaving, it would have diminished the sense of threat and of the fear of them. For the movie, I think it was the right call.

The black rider was not at all afraid of Farmer Maggot in the books and almost rode him down, and Mary commented that he seemed afraid. The point was that Farmer Maggot stood up to them in spite of his fear.

Love this, watch the trilogy Every year but never read the books so Im learning so so much from this series, commenting and liking every video to help out and hopefully going all the way through all movies/ books

Honestly. The exclusion of this changed some of the vibe but didn't change much else. (I unironically know a lot of book readers who didn't even notice it themselves on a first watch) It's borderline just an interesting tidbit you can tell someone at the beginning of the movie. I think the removal of the scouring of the shire was much more impactful on the movies. It determines the direction the movie takes from beginning to end imo. Since its exclusion means they are rewriting basically nearly every major characters ending's. I honestly think it's the best chapter in the book and it's a shame it never got an adaptation.

This is why I wish the movies were a drawn out HBO class miniseries instead of movies. I would definitely have loved to see the fights that were cut out, as well as the Richer characters. Watching Gandalf fight off the nine nazgul would have been awesome.

The line about the talking trees is more likely a reference to the Entwives than to the Ents. It's explicitly stated that the Shire is exactly the kind of place the Entwives would have liked to hang out.

In the movie yes things are condensed for run time and it does make the hobbits seem like the Goonies as they set out and meet Aragorn

Great video. VHS effect is a bit strong, almost hurt my eyes watching

In the book, Farmer Maggot lives in a house rather than a hobbit hole. Another reason to think the guy in the movie is Farmer Maggot

Looking back, it was nice of the Dark Rider to just ask where Bilbo lives instead of threatening him XD

Why is Gandalf always lurking in the shadows are we sure he is a good guy is he shire batman? Sam getting caught eavesdropping is the most Goonie thing in the movie Sean Astin did great

Movies based on a novel, comic book, etc, are a lot more challenging to make. It’s amazing what Peter Jackson was able to achieve!

Got this recommended, series seems really cool and I'm excited to follow it. Just the playlist has the videos backwards, which is a little awkward.

quality video. subscribed ) will u do Star Wars and Harry Potter stuff in the future?

Fun fact, the Nazgul that talks with Farmer Maggot is Khamul the Black Easterling, second in command of the Nine who took on the mantle of their lord when the Witch King was slain

I’d never read the books before the movies. I kind of became suspect when we see Gandalf going to all of these different places like Isengard and Minas Tirith in such a short time.

They certainly did this to cut a lot of "unnecessary" time for the movie. It would be pretty cool to see a more accurate, big budget version of LOTR as it was intended, but it's probably too unrealistic. Still, that does mean you have to suffer through Tom Bombadil, and that's a lot to take...

Well in the book there was a 17 year gap as Gandalf went away for that time to research about the ring. If the ringraith made it to Hobbiton shouldn't frodo or gandalf come across them. Frodo, Sam, pippin and merry do later on when there in the woods near farmer maggot and barely escape the raith. In the game the ringraith searched all night for frodo and frodo had to avade him. Also farmer maggot helped frodo and friends out of Hobbiton.

I’d argue that ‘Farmer Maggot’ NOT standing up to the Nazgûl was the necessary choice (at least if the scene was shown at all). Remember, the Nazgûl aren’t just bad guys but the biggest bads save Sauron (who we never really see). That makes it imperative to show them as being terrifying, powerful, and evil. Having some random hobbit bravely tell them off would only sabotage that necessity. Remember, the average viewer had no idea what the Nazgûl were and if some random bit player could so easily defy them that would inevitably leave a viewer wondering what the big deal is about Sauron’s right hand wraiths. In other words, doing the scene as originally written would have undercut the NECESSARY aim of making Sauron Inc seem sufficiently powerful and dangerous. Of course, that is the same reason for the one black rider to murder that other hobbit.

While I'd be happy to agree with you and give you right, all the expertise in the field seems to argue that the walking trees Sam mentions are not ents but huorns, ie the "real" trees that followed the ents and later killed all the fleeing uruk-hai after the battle of Helms Deep. One would have wanted Sam's testimony to confirm that the ent wifes lives somewhere. But that does not seem to be the case.

I thought it was a 50 year gap between the 111th birthday and Frodo leaving.

It's been so long since I read the first book. it's easy to forget some of the small details. My favorite part that wasn't included in the films were with Glorfindel. Arwen's role in the movies kind of steals his role from the books and fuses it into her story arc. He's the one and only Elf character I always wish they included in the films. He's basically an elven super hero in middle earth. The true Golden Chad so to speak. lol

Basically, I think I learned that I should read the books

This is covered in the Ralph Bakshi animated Lord of the Rings. 17 years passed sleepily in the shire.😊

I think the "17 year gap" still exists within the movies. The best example is Bilbo's rapid aging in Fellowship of the Ring because he still looked young from the moment he found the ring to his 111 birthday party. When he gave up the ring, Bilbo began to look older as we see when he reunites with Frodo in Rivendell. Then, Bilbo got extra older by the end of Return of the King when he and Frodo join Gandalf and the elves on a boat trip to the Grey Havens. Although, I find it wierd that Bilbo was aging while Gollum did not despite losing the ring to him.

Never judge a book by its movie!

notice the"hobbit"seated@theGreenDragon is clearly the orc that messes w/merry&pippin later on(theTwoTowers). reminiscing es kinda fun. G.Davis sr30June'24

I also feel that the random assault was out of character for the Nazgul.

My opinion of the Ring trilogy movies. It shouldn't be called J.R.R Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, it should be called Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings as Peter changed too much in the secondary characters. A small example, Faramir agreed that Frodo should continue his quest, in the book. He did NOT try to bring the ring back to daddy, and when Frodo shows the one ring to the Nazgul Lord in Osgiliath, its game over. He would've called his brothers to take the ring right there, I had to be restrained from walking out of the movie at that time. Totally F'd Theoden, he didn't want to kill Grima like the movie, he gave him the choice of loyalty to the king or exile, he took exile. It wasn't a spell. What he did with Saruman was criminal, because it didn't fit into HIS script, that's why it should be renamed to Peter Jacksons LotR. There is still a LOT of room for the actual story to be told. It would work best as a 9- or 12-part tv series, that way the whole story can be told as it was written. Don't get me wrong. They're good for what they are, but they're not Tolkien's vision from the books.

The sense of urgency is way better in the movies. The books are like “yeeeah it’s evil and everything but…”. We will get to it when we get to it!”

The timeline of The Hunt For Gollum is in that 17 year gap!

One thing I will note. I definitely think that the theatrical releases are totally valid to show someone on their first viewing of the movies.

Re: the Nazgûl killing a hobbit, I did hear there was a bit cut out of the original text (I think Unfinished or Lost Tales) where the Nazgûl do kill a hobbit or two in anger/vengeance after Freddie Bolger escapes and wakes the village. So the film is still a departure from the canon story (since that bit was removed) but maybe that cut bit was inspiration?

Wonderful series, the old tv effect gives me headache though

I literally just found this out the other day. Haven't read the books, maybe i should.

I recall in cinemas (it’s been 23 years! *back cracks*) witnessing the beheading of the hobbit, and feeling quite disappointed to the change made to the ringwraiths. Very against character.

Sam and Frodo were always friends, and their friendship was never in question despite the part in the movies where Frodo takes Gollum's side over Sam's and sends him home.. That never happens in the books