Failed Rolec breaker from Artisan Electrics

Рет қаралды 90,310

3 жыл бұрын

Jordan of Artisan Electrics recently featured this failed circuit breaker from an electric vehicle charger. You can see that video here:-
• Why I Don't Fit Rolec ...
The unit is a combined overcurrent and leakage detection breaker - or RCBO (Residual Current Breaker with Overcurrent protection), which means it provides protection against short circuits and overcurrent as well as detection of AC and pulsing DC leakage. A normal AC leakage unit can't be used for EVs, due to the risk of a faulty charger leaking rectified AC that may not trip an ordinary breaker.
The construction is quite neat, with overcurrent on one side and leakage detection on the other.
The test resistor was hidden down a channel next to a terminal, and is rated 5000 ohms to give a trip test current of a fairly generous 45mA.
The leakage current mechanism is a magnetic latching type that triggers at 15mA by creating an opposing magnetic field to the holding magnetism, that releases the catch and allows it to fly open, striking the trip pin.
The circuitry is effectively a sense coil with diode voltage clamping and the trigger coil tapped across a capacitive divider to allow an element of trip current tuning and probably some filtering too.
The failure looks like typical circuit breaker failure. Very different contact arrangement to the previous one, but still the same failure point as in most standard breakers. Aside from the potential for unusual current waveforms associated with electronic loads, I wonder if atmospheric conditions also play a part due to the higher ambient humidity associated with outdoor equipment.
If you deal with EV (Electric Vehicle) charging pillars and experience breaker failures, let me know in the comments down below what brands are involved. It'll be interesting to see if this is a common issue amongst brands. Let me know if you also think my theory about the power factor correction current pulses being a contributing factor to the failure.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
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Пікірлер: 334

@artisanelectrics 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Clive! One of your Patreon supporters sent me the link! Great video! Absolutely fascinating.

@bigclivedotcom 3 жыл бұрын

Good timing, I was just about to send you the link.

@mikeselectricstuff 3 жыл бұрын

Rolec breakers are notorious, but it's usually the top-left Neutral that burns - plenty of reports on car forums about this

@movax20h 3 жыл бұрын

Do you know what kind of tests and QA manufacturers do for their MCBs, and RCBOs? My guess, is that this issue should have been detected by measuring voltage drop at 40A.

@ecok 3 жыл бұрын

I had two (Home and Work) Rolec car chargers when we first got EV (5 years ago). Both burnt out, one distorted the outer case too and was no longer waterproof. Breakers changed under warranty but at considerable inconvenience/cost to the installer (and me somewhat until it was fixed).

@andywonline 3 жыл бұрын

The general concensus is to replace them with a Garo RCBO - RCBOGRB40 I did this with mine when mine blew & it's been fine ever since. Although it did take 4 years for my Rolec one to burn out.

@ChlorideCull 3 жыл бұрын

@@andywonline Not often I see Garo mentioned outside Scandinavia, but they dominate the market here for a reason :)

@absurdengineering 3 жыл бұрын

How much do these breakers cost? Can’t one install some better grade units from an industrial catalog? I’d expect a decent DIN rail branch circuit rated breaker (no RCD) like that to go for at least £100, although the best quality ones would be closer to £200 (I’m translating US prices and adding VAT). An RCD+breaker combo I would trust would be more like starting at £200. I’ve never had those fail, and have well over a thousand of them in the field.

@mikeselectricstuff 3 жыл бұрын

The main issue with EV charging is it's drawing a heavy load for an extended period of time. I doubt most (any?) EV onboard chargers have poor power factor as that would cause problems on the network so I'd be highly surprised if the applicable standards don't specify a pretty good PF. One OBC I took apart definitely had power factor correction.

@tommihommi1 3 жыл бұрын

yeah, the main problem with EV chargers is EMC, not overcurrent spikes.

@hugoboyce9648 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, any respectable design will have a small inductor between the PFC stage and the network to prevent the "spikyness" described in the video, and that results in a pretty darn good sine wave.

@tomsixsix 3 жыл бұрын

Some newer car chargers supply the main battery with pulsed DC to eliminate the need to do full PFC in the car charger - the Li-Ion battery doesn't mind if the charging current has a sine profile.

@effervescence5664 3 жыл бұрын

It seems odd that it would have an issue with a heavy load for extended periods given the loads of old GEC units was greater than current car points and I've never had issues with them. More often it appears to be the on board dc conversion throwing issues back upstream. From personal experience I've had more customers with Telsa's have issues with the Relec points than Nissan Leaf and Renault Zoe owners. Not had any issues with the Zappi units yet though.

@Basement-Science 3 жыл бұрын

@@hugoboyce9648 Actually you would want to add a low-value capcitor after the bridge rectifier and before the APFC boost stage. From the IR1155s APFC control ic app note: _The purpose of the high-frequency capacitor is to supply the high-frequency component of the inductor current (the ripple component) via the shortest possible loop. This has the advantage of acting like an EMI filter, since it minimizes the high-frequency current requirement from the AC line. Typically a high-frequency, film type capacitor with low ESL and high-voltage rating (630V) is used._ _High-frequency input capacitor design is essentially a trade-off between:_ _· sizing it big enough to minimize the noise injected back into the AC line_ _· sizing it small enough to avoid line current zero-crossing distortion (flattening)_

@danielm2142 3 жыл бұрын

12:50 You've instead drawn the very nice lady from Total Recall.

@RedwoodRhiadra 3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking Eccentrica Gallumbits myself...

@Mostly-Harmless4242 3 жыл бұрын

@9:22 you can see the bypass resistor (right from the screwdriver). And a thin red wire then will do to the test button at the other side.

@draketungsten74 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah. I saw it there when he was looking for it.

@BoB4jjjjs 3 жыл бұрын

The resistor is right in the corner of the unit in a tiny compartment on its own. Grey in colour, you can just see the end of it.

@westinthewest 3 жыл бұрын

17:11 Clive's right thumb is covering the resistor.

@roderickwhitehead 3 жыл бұрын

"You can always skip ahead..." You got a better chance of seeing God.

@frogz 3 жыл бұрын

WHAT CAN I SAY... It's just riveting content...

@ethanpoole3443 3 жыл бұрын

Well, that explains the odd visitor at 1am!

@jfbeam 3 жыл бұрын

While one _could_ it's more interesting to watch Clive use nippers as pliers. (That rarely works for me.)

@rimooreg 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Again BigClive. I believe you made this failure mode completely understandable to me. Pretty melty. Maybe not change contact itself but the flipping plastic capturing it. Another great Patron Video for us. Thank you Jordan also.

@phils4634 3 жыл бұрын

Never knew about the "magnet thing". Really interesting (as usual), those breakers are pretty packed with components, and "a bit charred inside" may be an understatement!

@thomasbonse 3 жыл бұрын

Just needs a good cleaning and it'll buff out. 😁

@johnnyreb3487 3 жыл бұрын

Just a bit charred is his way of saying incinderated.

@jfbeam 3 жыл бұрын

In an old data center (circa 1995), we had panels where overloading one circuit would trip the neighboring breakers as well. Such is the price of "fancy" magnetic breakers. I don't see many of those anymore.

@mikefochtman7164 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, like the 'magnet thing' design. So the current in the coil doesn't have to develop enough magnetic field to actually pull in a solenoid armature or anything. Just enough to oppose / weaken the field of the permanent magnet.

@Nono-hk3is 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Clive, and Jordan.

@macgybel7951 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Clive! You videos are always both entertaining and educational! Greetings from Sweden!

@tazz1669 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Clive, very interesting video. KZfaq is such a great resource, I always learn something from the videos.

@petehiggins33 3 жыл бұрын

Clive, as others have commented I think you have a few things wrong in this video. Power factor corrrection circuits do not draw large current spikes unless they are faulty. Their whole purpose in life is to draw a roughly sinusoidal current in phase with the mains voltage. The do this by using a high frequency switch mode boost converter to supply the main converter with a voltage high than the peak mains voltage and modulating the power they deliver to be proportiional to the mains voltage. The high frequency component of the input current is filtered out leaving a 50Hz sinusoidal current. Also the circuit at 15:50 couldn't possibly generate a dc voltage to drive the solenoid.

@arthurmann578 3 жыл бұрын

I ALWAYS learn something new with Clive! Thanks for all the cool videos , Clive!! 👍👍😄😄 PS: That is one hell of a complicated breaker!

@penfold7800 3 жыл бұрын

What I find incredibly interesting here is, all the incredibly thin wires, tiny sensing circuitry, low melting point plastics in the trip mechanism (all of these designed to be the weak point failure points) didn't fail. Nope, it was the beefy bigger current flow contacts that failed (from arc-ing because of uneven contact surfaces) and the heat resistant outer shell plastic that melted, causing more contact failure from plastic residue spitting on to the contacts, and eventually causing enough heat buildup to trip the bimetal strip microswitch. I wonder what would have happened if the melted plastic had glued the main switch contacts together more firmly instead?

@Caluma122 3 жыл бұрын

Great content Clive. Very interesting. I can't imagine how much time you spend making this content! It's great

@mcdon2401 3 жыл бұрын

Was waiting patiently for this one after I saw the other video.

@oldguy2800 3 жыл бұрын

Excellent forensic work! I believe that many engineers underestimate the effect of the high frequency pulsing current on the contacts.

@VorpalGun 3 жыл бұрын

3:47 How could I get bored by such riveting content?

@diederikvandedijk 3 жыл бұрын

6:14 There's a clever mechanism that makes the contact snap in place to avoid arcing when the breaker is reset slowly.

@millomweb 3 жыл бұрын

Any such arcking will be low current.

@diederikvandedijk 3 жыл бұрын

@@millomweb Still.

@AngDavies 3 жыл бұрын

@@millomweb not if the fault is still present

@millomweb 3 жыл бұрын

@@AngDavies The fault appears to be the contactor.

@AngDavies 3 жыл бұрын

@@millomweb the contactor was engineered to deal with many faults, not just this one

@kaysonntag74 Жыл бұрын

Hehe, I also subscribe to Artisan Electrics. I'm a trained electrician from Germany and find it very interesting how things are done in other countries.

@DennisLeeyeet 3 жыл бұрын

17:00 18:14 resistor at the corner says hi

@mica4153 3 жыл бұрын

I kept wanting to point "its there- no.. you're touching it right now! aah"

@simontillson482 3 жыл бұрын

@@mica4153 yep. It is a grey resistor surrounded by grey plastic, but still... he even kept saying it should be connected to the red wire, but didnt trace where it went, lol.

@dantheman6961 3 жыл бұрын

I did my EV course recently. On it was a bloke who worked for rolec in the past. According to him: 'They buy a container load of the cheapest Chinese breakers/RCDs they can and print a Rolec logo on them."

@EricSchoville 3 жыл бұрын

I enjoy your videos so much!

@dashcamandy2242 3 жыл бұрын

15:11 - Reminds me of a gadget I got for Christmas as a child: Crdl (quote from the box: "It Rhymes with Fiddle.") It was a black plastic base with internal magnet, and a small pile of diamond-shaped metal bits you could, theoretically, make sculptures with.

@chrisw1462 3 жыл бұрын

@6:19 "It's almost like it... before popping in." That's exactly what it does. It snaps closed fast at the last bit to minimize arcing. You should see high current, high voltage breakers doing it - it's... deafening!

@johndododoe1411 3 жыл бұрын

He probably did, in his first job as a young apprentice electrician servicing steelworks.

@imark7777777 3 жыл бұрын

Finally the follow up or any follow up. Watching drain addict I'm always disappointed when there's something that needs to be followed up and it just ends

@muzikman2008 3 жыл бұрын

Yay, was waiting for this one 😁👍 charred safety devices always stir my curiosity..

@dougaltolan3017 3 жыл бұрын

Clive, I am not sure you apply power factor issues appropriately here. Even with the blocky simple circuit the power factor will be pretty much perfect . The current is in phase with the voltage, all be it with a different waveform. The problem with switched mode power supplies is that they reduce the size of the capacitor (to save space). This mean that to deliver constant power, they draw more current at low voltages (P=IV) and *only* smooth out between pulses, not half cycles of the supply. A power factor corrected charger (as you mentioned) will correct for this.

@carlubambi5541 3 жыл бұрын

We have so many bad breakers in Canada from Bulldog/ITE, Federal Pioneer, and Sylvania. So many prone to blistering and failing closed and just no longer closing. Some burning the buss bars in the panels

@richardkaz2336 3 жыл бұрын

The contact tips used to be high quality silver and had a wiping action when they opened and closed to ensure a clean surface and in the case of DC rated contactors and breaker used a permanent magnet to help draw away and extinguish the arc over the arc shields and reduce spatter and grud forming on the contact surface. The newer devices seem to be moving down the path of cheap and nasty with material that tend to end up giving way to high resistance connections and failure, engineered obsolescent to promote further sales of more land fill. While recycling is the mantra way too much just become wasted resources ending up in landfill.

@benanderson89 2 жыл бұрын

I was thinking of getting a Rolec charger installed on my Garage since my new electric car is due in a few months. Everyone on the EV forums basically said "no" and then I was linked this video (plus many, many pictures of exploded Rolecs). I don't exactly feel secure connecting a giant lithium bomb to one of these now...

@poellot 3 жыл бұрын

How about a line or load reactor typically used in line with 3 phase variable frequency drives. Would one help to smooth out the current at the breaker?

@mikedjames 3 жыл бұрын

High frequencies, perhaps start getting skin effects where the core of the conductor carries less of the current than the surface. Not so much a problem with small wires at kilohertz but as things go faster ... Also the magnetic fields from the current pulses may be creating forces which make the contacts resonate and start bouncing...

@rogerbeck3018 3 жыл бұрын

thanks to clive, jordan and mike - my tiny brain has been fed a bit. I wonder if Rolec have an opinion or pay clive a consult fee.

@anthonyginn7506 3 жыл бұрын

My two favourite channels do a colab! This is like Christmas!

@Mr.Unacceptable 3 жыл бұрын

I wonder if the plastic can fail in such a way that it locks the contacts closed? I wonder what the stats on this is.

@lostjohnny9000 3 жыл бұрын

9:00 That little coil with magnetic core is very similar to one I discovered in a professional magic coin trick.

@AngDavies 3 жыл бұрын

Of note: there are two types of power factor: the usual kind, where current is out of sync with the voltage, and harmonic power factor, where they may be in sync, but the current has higher frequency components in it. The power factor from the capacitive droppers is the second kind- that "pulsy" current wave can be represented as a sum of sine waves at multiples of 50Hz, but only the 50hz provides useful power, the rest just add extra current into the system causing various issues depending on the remainder upon division by 150

@GadgetBoy 3 жыл бұрын

Where did you get that big rod magnet? I've been wanting to demonstrate what happens when you drop one of those through a copper pipe.

@bigclivedotcom 3 жыл бұрын

eBay. They have a wide selection.

@dcallan812 3 жыл бұрын

that was toasty `interesting to see the insides. 👍👍

@AndrewEbling 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the explanation about the spikey current load - this explains why my microwave (which has a switch-mode PSU) makes a strange noise when my EV is charging. Ps. Apparently the Renault Zoe uses the motor coil as the inductor in the charging circuit to save weight. 🤓

@IanSlothieRolfe 3 жыл бұрын

This video was riveting.

@SodAlmighty Жыл бұрын

"They're a bit sloppy so they can just......mate" - Big Clive 2020

@mjp0815 3 жыл бұрын

The same happened to my Rolec. They should recall these!

@ZombieFartDev 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah because of that research I now look at magnets like they are electricity since you are such an educated electrician I figured just telling you this would be enough to give you the Revelation you need

@seanman6541 3 жыл бұрын

A few years ago I built a small device that I would use to annoy my parents (I am only 18) by remotely tripping the master circuit breaker. It consisted of a battery, electromagnet, MOSFET, and ESP8266. The ESP8266 (WiFi enabled microcontroller) would drive the MOSFET via a BJT. The MOSFET controlled power to the electromagnet, which when powered would cause the breaker to trip. I hid the device behind the panel where it could not be seen and would activate it remotely.

@ZombieFartDev 3 жыл бұрын

Clive I like your videos and I was a research scientist working on a brand new electric motor I can tell you exactly how it functions and let me tell you there is no need for rectifier

@amarcy5369 3 жыл бұрын

Hi sir I watched Jordan’s video and noted he intended to send you the device for your perusal . So I’m fascinated by your results . We as electricians fit these units day in day out . Taking little though as to how complex they are , and as you say in reality relatively cheap. Which begs the question, should they be more robust and more expensive? . And from your perspective would manufactures be better designing a device purely for this purpose, and not relying on the existing technology that is used in other parts of the industry. Thanks from an old retired electrician 😃👍

@bigclivedotcom 3 жыл бұрын

I wish they would make them better quality even at greater expense.

@tomthetinker99 3 жыл бұрын

Intersting, we have two Rolec wall chargers, one has failed within 3 years, I replaced the breaker with a different make.

@tiredoldmechanic1791 3 жыл бұрын

Are the breakers being used as a disconnect instead of a switch designed for disconnecting under load? One of our buildings had the lights only connected to a breaker instead of light switches and the breakers would fail often until proper switches were installed.

@martinwinlow 3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking along similar lines: has the EV-user/owner been using the RCBO to interupt charging and therefore the contacts are breaking 7kW once or twice (maybe more) every day - NOT what they are designed for...

@johnschneede 3 жыл бұрын

In my opinion, this fuse was burnt due to long time over current Condition. Most people don't expect what ther actual current draw really is. If this would only have used with a car charger - in Germany the Current Limit for that is about 10 to 16A @ 230V. I think this kind of load should not result in a picture like we see here. Most of the time, the fuse for the garage is also used for the cellar. So if there is a washing machine (10A), electric heater(16A), some hobby or garden related objects (8A) and finally the car at 16A we get a total current of 50A. In this unlucky situation, the OverCurrentProtection might not trip, even after hours. But the electrical overload will lead to early failures like this. Of course it makes sense to buy a reliable Circuit Breaker, but if you use it wrong, only luck can tell how long this works properly.

@alexmarshall4331 3 жыл бұрын

BOOTIFUL 💯%

@andrewedis9907 3 жыл бұрын

I missed what the capacitors are for? Ah got it now, thanks Clive

@ronankelly4471 3 жыл бұрын

I can't skip forward: It's Riveting!

@WineScrounger 3 жыл бұрын

There’s a good case for making circuit breakers that fail out if the contacts overheat, and cannot be reset. Low melting point alloy perhaps? If the contact came away the actuator could swing past its usual position and disengage from the reset lever.

@millomweb 3 жыл бұрын

Had a look at the AE video. One of the things he did was fit a piece of plastic pipe to a close by water tap so the tap was isolated from the house earthing system. As a sparky, he forgot to connect the tap to a supply of plastic water too. Had he done an insulation test on the tap, he'd have realised the other error.

@planker 3 жыл бұрын

good show. what would that thing look like in the fifties?

@Espakho 3 жыл бұрын

That pause and rapid closing before making connection when you try to close the breaker is intentional, it reduces arc when closing breaker on a short circuit. It is called fast close I think.

@clynesnowtail1257 3 жыл бұрын

I wonder about my fridge if thats what caused my circuit breaker problems I discovered a few months ago. Its a fancy "inverter" unit against my wishes, so Im sure its doing PFC. In my case the contact inside the circuit breaker didnt burn as much as the contact where the breaker mates to the ?backplane? of the panel itself. Gouged it out pretty good. What dosent help is they installed too small of a panel so the panel is filled to the brim with tandem or quad breakers. I think the Oven, A/C Compressor and Electric heat are the only ones that escaped with standard size breakers. So theres two circuits worth of load on one contact.

@jackharper24 3 жыл бұрын

They are just the tiniest rube goldberg machines

@johng.1703 3 жыл бұрын

on many EV cars you can set the current draw, but like with most things people tend not to RTFM, as it is the vehicle that does the conversion to DC and charging of the battery, the box on the wall tends to just turn the power on and off from a signal from the vehicle. from the looks of it, the load limit on the vehicle is set just to a whisker of the overload limit.

@MrNickGascoigne 3 жыл бұрын

You mentioned that a bit of plastic which had melted had made resetting difficult, I wonder if a combination of poor connectivity of high current creating heat deforms the plastic making the connection worse compounding the problem until failure..

@nophead 3 жыл бұрын

PFC uses a boost regulator which draws current continuously, not in pulses. When the transistor is on current flows from the mains into the inductor and ramps up a little. When it switches off it flows from the mains to the HV rail via the diode and falls a little. So it has some triangular ripple but is not discrete pulses. It should be a lot kinder to breaker contacts than a non-PFC supply.

@Sixta16 10 ай бұрын

PFC does not have to use a boost configuration. Plenty other PFC-aware topologies do exist and are being used.

@FrontSideBus 3 жыл бұрын

I bet you'd love to teardown one of the new AFDD's, some of which have fully fledged microprocessors in them that would shame the first IBM compatible PC that I had!

@tommihommi1 3 жыл бұрын

the input of a high power device like a car charger should not look as spiky as you depict it, without those crazy 60 amp spikes. It should basically just be a fair bit of ripple, while the current curve largely follows what you'd expect of a purely resistive load.

@arcadeuk 3 жыл бұрын

These videos keep reminding me I desperately need to do a tear down on one of the shitty MK RCBO's that go short circuit, I really need to know why they do it. I am going to have to set myself a time limit, that if I don't do a video I am going to have to send it to Clive

@bigclivedotcom 3 жыл бұрын

The RCD circuitry often latches, if it can't trip the breaker it may be causing catastrophic circuitry failure.

@arcadeuk 3 жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom All 3 I have had go short circuit do so on the output side (so they trip themselves) then when you try to reset them, you are resetting into a hard short and you take out the house fuse. No faults were present on the downstream side each time this has happened. I'm surpised that I've never heard anyone else talk about this fault with MK RCBO's as it can't be just me

@movax20h 3 жыл бұрын

This is a really compact device actually. Nice engineering. It is a single pole breaker tho, so be aware of that. I think the issue was poor manufacturing of the brass part. They are probably cast, and then roughly machined. If there was a burr on the edge, and not smooth, the burr would prevent making the full contact of the two parts. Good QA with passing 40A and checking the voltage drop, to measure resistance, would detect this. But I guess, they are skimping on that.

@FrankHeinelt 3 жыл бұрын

Well, I bet, Clive, you meanwhile saw the test resistor by yourself, but if not, look at the bottom of the device, right in the corner with the sense transformer. Just under the screw terminal is a quite big resistor standing "vertically" :-)

@hburke7799 3 жыл бұрын

Almost any EV will have Power Factor Correction for the simple reason that bad power factor causes current to effectively double for the same amount of power. It costs more to build in a heavier connector and internal wiring than just using a PFC module.

@michaeloki7409 3 жыл бұрын

I've got some ancient zinsco breakers that you can compare to these modern failed breakers.

@maxleadleybrown 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks Clive, now I am worried about installing a car charger!

@bigclivedotcom 3 жыл бұрын

They're generally safe.

@florind.5711 10 ай бұрын

Hello, Clive, here in Romania there is a trend for installing fuse separators(fuse holders for 38x10mm fuses, or 14x51mm) as a general "breaker"... Schneider does not require " backup fuse" as other mcb or rcbo does...

@shootthemoon6072 3 жыл бұрын

I fully expected, "I'm not an expert at opening circuit breakers, but I play one on KZfaq". 😂🤣😂

@jlucasound 3 жыл бұрын

@12:53 Apparently you haven't seen "Total Recall". ;-)

@draketungsten74 3 жыл бұрын

LOL

@RedwoodRhiadra 3 жыл бұрын

I bet he *has* read Hitchhiker's Guide, though...

@draketungsten74 3 жыл бұрын

@@RedwoodRhiadra Heh

@cbcdesign001 3 жыл бұрын

LOL! That was exactly what I thought as he was drawing and commenting.

@leebromley1411 3 жыл бұрын

Watched the Video with Jordan removing this a few weeks back. Alway steered clear of Rolec because of reliability issues. Hence why I have a Zappi with the PEN fault detection.

@whatsonchannelB 3 жыл бұрын

"You can always skip ahead if you don't want to see me remove the rivets" -- nah, the action is riveting, clive!

@animefreak5757 3 жыл бұрын

so if i glue a magnet to the door that presumably covers this, the breaker will trip every time someone closes the door? and even changing the breaker won't help?

@kokodin5895 3 жыл бұрын

wow , this was an incredibly simple circuit breaker you could say "all analog"" one i have the feeling than some of chinese ones you took apart in the past were much more complicated on the rcd side

@jayare1933 3 жыл бұрын

"that is pen" Why this is funny to me!

@EricWillis77 3 жыл бұрын

In the USA we have to use arc fault breaker’s in bedroom circuits. Are they similar to anything you guys use? My understanding is that they are different from GFCI breakers.

@ENKI_IIIIIII 3 жыл бұрын

such small pieces, and the insulated/coated copper wire

@konsul2006 3 жыл бұрын

What's the best contactor? I'm thinking a blade style one.

@chrishartley1210 3 жыл бұрын

Is there any relationship between your idea about overload caused by PFC and the derating of dimmer switches when using LED bulbs?

@johndododoe1411 3 жыл бұрын

LED lamps rarely contain PFC.

@dougaltolan3017 3 жыл бұрын

@@johndododoe1411 True, I think there is confusion between PFC and switched mode power supplies, which LED bulbs certainly have.

@chrishartley1210 3 жыл бұрын

I'm well aware of this, I'm trying to find out why dimmer switches are derated for LED bulbs and I wondered if there was any common reason. I didn't suggest that LED bulbs have PFC circuits.

@dougaltolan3017 3 жыл бұрын

@@chrishartley1210 Sorry. LED fixtures do have switched mode power supplies which do, as Clive stated draw what power they do use as spikes. Dimmer switches are even more susceptible to damage from spikes since the dimming component is a semiconductor.

@bigclivedotcom 3 жыл бұрын

The inrush current to capacitors and terrible power factor of capacitive dropper based lamps is probably the main issue.

@BersekViking 3 жыл бұрын

Try adding a small drop of thin super gule to the rivet on the other side.

@G8YTZ 3 жыл бұрын

100% agree, third harmonic. Some EVs with high power chargers, but only running at 7.4kW or less are particularly bad in this respect. Some Renault Zoe’s with 43kW chargers exhibit this issue. Same reason you need very high current diodes in a linear DC power supply.

@Sixta16 10 ай бұрын

This is a single phase charger. You are mix and matching stuff together.

@G8YTZ 10 ай бұрын

@@Sixta16 no, I’m not is the charger but has a high third harmonic load that causes the problem. It only affects the high power Zoe chargers where the slicing angle is very small.

@DoryGoldberger 3 жыл бұрын

There is a resistor in the corner next to one of the mains lugs.

@bigclivedotcom 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, I spotted that afterwards. It's a 5K resistor.

@chrisreynolds6331 3 жыл бұрын

I understand the pulsed current draw causing a problem. Many years ago in the UK there was a Philips TV called the G8. It had a half-wave thyristor power supply. Quoted 300 Watts so you would think just over 1 amp. Wrong. It was short duration spikes of 12.5A! I encountered several melted plugs, and 5 amp fuses didn't last long! 😃

@rowanNClangley 3 жыл бұрын

Then there was itssuccessor, the G11 which would pick up Radio Norway International(6MHz in the Short Waveband via the not so well screened 6 MHz sound IF)

@chrisreynolds6331 3 жыл бұрын

@@rowanNClangley oh yes the G11. Full-wave thyristor power supply. Lovely until the reservoir capacitor's rivets started arcing and falsely triggering the thyristors. HT up to over 300 volts, sending the EHT into orbit and cracking the neck of the CRT! Saw it many times

@chrisreynolds6331 3 жыл бұрын

@@rowanNClangley one of those G11's blew up that way in a shop I was working in once. I was standing next to it. Tremendous bang Corona discharge from my hair and fingertips. Heaven only knows what the EHT went up to. At that point a lady came into the shop. "Ooh it smells like the beach in here it's lovely. What was that terrible bang just now?"! All I could wearily reply was (still shaking), don't ask! 😂😂

@markclark787 3 жыл бұрын

Will a Joule Thief work for 3 batteries LEDs?

@Scrogan 3 жыл бұрын

AC will come out of the sense coil for the RCD, so the two diodes and two capacitors are going to be turning it into DC. Probably with one of those centre-tap full wave rectifiers. The tripping mechanism with the finely balanced magnetic field requires DC of the right polarity to trigger, and feeding it the wrong polarity would cause it to remain latched. Those are polarised capacitors after all. So I’m sceptical whether your reverse engineering is correct.

@bigclivedotcom 3 жыл бұрын

The diodes only cap the voltage. The coil will have AC coupled to it, but can potentially release on the desired half wave.

@154electrician 3 жыл бұрын

Had loads of these rolec rcbos burning up

@securi-t 3 жыл бұрын

When anyone sneezes in 2020, I shout *2319!*

@FireballXL55 3 жыл бұрын

Sorry Clive I believe your understanding of the current drawn on a PF corrected supply is not correct, the current spikes on the old style supply are huge to charge the capacitor when the mains is above the capacitor voltage. The whole point of the PFC types is to spread the current pulses across the whole period. I would personally guess that that breaker was running at or near it's rating.

@aBoogivogi 3 жыл бұрын

Would a C or D grade breaker work better with EV chargers? I assume they may have bigger contacts due to the higher loads they can withstand

@briangriffiths114 2 жыл бұрын

I am having a tethered 7.2KW Rolec installed but I will be dialling down my EV's internal charge rate controller to receive a maximum of 12 amps. The charge rate I choose will broadly match production from my solar PV system on the day. Would such a light load over a maximum 6 hours (two or three times a week) extend the life of the circuit-breaker, in your experience?

@bigclivedotcom 2 жыл бұрын

A lower current does take a lot of strain off components like this.

@PaulSteMarie 3 жыл бұрын

Is your thought that pulsing is causing contact arcing?

@bigclivedotcom 3 жыл бұрын

My thought is that any contact resistance results in much greater risk of arcing.

@muzikman2008 3 жыл бұрын

@@bigclivedotcom I suppose any contacting materials will always have some resistance be it high or low, a more arc resistant material may be what's required over a larger surface area? Or would that have the opposite effect? 🤔 When you look at a relay contact it is a specific metal attached to a copper strip, usually riveted on, and it is usually domed to reduce the arc? I'm assuming? When new they are almost polished in finish to what I would think creates a narrower, colder arc? Fascinating subject in its own right. It looked like this RCD didn't have any of those characteristics.

@mr_b_hhc 3 жыл бұрын

Big up the 4 Rolec employees xD

@dalriada842 3 жыл бұрын

12:52 For some reason I'm reminded of that mutant chick in the original Total Recall.

@electricmotorburnouts3557 3 жыл бұрын

Yea you did miss the resistor was in one of the corners where the screw connections where

@TheWinstn60 3 жыл бұрын

With an inductive load and high current you can get plasma arcing which still carries current and causes more damage. They have a spark quencher built in but it doesn’t look like the hot gasses can readily escape poor design

@robroysyd 3 жыл бұрын

I think the cause of the failure is simply that charging an EV draws large current for an extended period of time. Other loads of similar current e.g. heating are intermittent so things have time to cool down.