Fake Pronation | Why it Doesn’t Improve Your Serve!

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4 жыл бұрын

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Fake pronation takes place every time we consciously try to pronate on the serve. Pronation into the contact and continuing pronation are a direct result of sound fundamentals and acceleration. The time span in which these technical elements occur is so short that it makes it impossible to make conscious mechanical adjustments to the serve when the racquet is traveling that fast. Any attempt to force these movements will lead to a slowing down of the action or worse a mistiming. That is what I call fake pronation. If a player tries to continue to pronate after contact, the conscious movement will occur late, well after the ball has been struck, and will have no effect on the serve whatsoever. Furthermore, it usually leads to abrupt stopping of the motion which can cause additional problems on the serve.
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Пікірлер: 85

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

Go more in depth on “fake pronation” 👉 bit.ly/360rITs

@Armando_Lara Ай бұрын

This is gold, for a lot of time I made a fake pronation. Thank you!

@IntuitiveTennis Ай бұрын

🙏

@pats300zx 4 жыл бұрын

Another reason why I love this channel. Honest and factual information about fundamentals and not worrying about every nuance in strokes. Develop the basics and things will fall into line naturally. Keep up the great work Nick !!!

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you Patrick

@mauriziodenapoli873 4 жыл бұрын

Great concept! I would say that the same concept could be applied to wirst lag in the forehand

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

I agree Maurizio

@georgetheyokel 4 жыл бұрын

As always, Nick is right on the point. I lost my service power as soon as I try to imitate Federer's pronation without knowing why. Only after viewing this video did I realized I was actually doing "faked pronation" instead of a real one.

@henrylove514 3 жыл бұрын

This is one of the best tennis channels, if not the best. I've learned so much from Nikola.

@sfbusinessfinancing 4 жыл бұрын

Always appreciate your practical, realistic and honest instruction. Others try to make learning the serve "easy". It is not. This complex movement requires having the fundamentals down, lots of practice, and perseverance.

@markplumb3968 Ай бұрын

Thank you, as a teacher, being honest, and pointing out you didn’t know exactly what was happening when you were a playing professional….. well done… In the production of many tennis strokes ( and golf strokes ) It’s about cause and effect, action and reaction … not about trying to do a particular movement…. Ps To the guy who disagreed, he didn’t say, they didn’t probate fully, he said they didn’t continue to probate after contact….. 🙏

@IntuitiveTennis Ай бұрын

Thank you Mark

@dr.e.r.blomgren 4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for a phenominally important video on this point of pronation! So clear and true.

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

My pleasure Dr B

@awaedin 4 жыл бұрын

Very interesting thanks, particularly the point about pros not always continuing the pronation after contact.

@terrydavidson4581 4 жыл бұрын

Excellent advice. At last a realistic timeframe for this critical process. Thanks, no illusions at last.

@yuyifu 4 жыл бұрын

Great video to clear the air about this overly discussed topic. I think continuous pronation motion in service and wrist lag in forehand are the outcomes of correct form, but not the necessary conditions of correct form.

@transklutz 4 жыл бұрын

Ok then, what is correct form?

@robertocfaguiar 2 жыл бұрын

Like a lot your videos. You are realistic about things, it is like a Zen approach ( intuitive). Learning a lot from them.

@saidtadros3422 4 жыл бұрын

All the respect to you, ... you are a true professional amongst all the noise created nowadays around us in the social media...👍

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you Said

@27blanx 5 ай бұрын

100% correct info!

@AlexanderMayorov 10 ай бұрын

Thanks a lot. Nice statistics. Examples from life, very supportive. A lot of interesting arguments. Good luck with your new videos

4 жыл бұрын

Great explanation. Unfortunately I'm suffering what yo are pointing out. I am trying to pronate and the result is a serve without acceleration.

@johnsmith-ls4rc 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your great coaching videos; I would say they are currently the best available - and I have watched lots of others ! However this is the first video of yours where I have been left partly confused, instead of fully enlightened. If we aren't thinking about pronation should we be thinking about the contact point of the ball on the face of the racquet, or the trajectory and target which we wish to achieve? If I want to do a flat , slice or kick serve I do consciously think about the direction of pronation/deviation of the racquet at the last minute. As all your other videos have proved accurate I accept what you say, but dont quite fully understand your alternative !

@tennisan 3 жыл бұрын

Nikola says very useful and deep things, I think!

@klaw03 4 жыл бұрын

Great video! I’ve measured my serve speeds and can regularly serve 1st serves over 100 mph. However, my coach told me I am not pronating enough. He says I’m not reaching full extension and my swing path was too much into the court instead of up. He said that there should be more arc on the ball trajectory, especially on my second serves but even on my first serves. I’ve been experimenting and I think I finally figured it out. On my 2nd serves, I just imagine throwing an axe straight up. I finally got net clearance, the second serve “thump” sound and the ball kicked to the right. However, the ball was so much slower. When I see people demonstrating a kick serve, it easily hits the side or back fence before the second bounce. I can achieve this easily on my flat/slice serves. But when I serve with this new experimental technique, the ball dies before it hits the fence. This reminded me of your previous video on the kick serve. Is my swing path wrong and causing me to lose too much pace?

@forever7058 4 жыл бұрын

great advice,thanks.

@vivy_xo 4 жыл бұрын

This is good to know Nick! Thank you!

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

My pleasure Natachi 😇

@jag3384 4 жыл бұрын

Really well articulated Nikola.

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you Joe

@boarini2003 4 жыл бұрын

Your channel is fantastic.

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

Thank you Jonathan

@kykwan49 Жыл бұрын

Great insight, coach. I hit my best serves when I stay away from all the micro-management you talked about. Thanks.

@vectorthurm 4 жыл бұрын

I caught this video just in time, was planning on practicing some serves after work and was going to focus on exactly what you say not too, LOL. My primary issue is getting my arm nice and loose, and when I practice sometimes it just gets worse and worse. I thought I should spend time loading and throwing balls and allowing my arm to relax all the way through my motion, but I confess I was going to check that I pronate at the end. Perhaps my focus should be to simply gauge and encourage my arm to be very loose during my follow through. Thanks Nikola!!

@GrgaKlara 4 жыл бұрын

champ!!!!! Svaki dan ucim sve i upijam kao da nema sutra a imam 130 kg zagrizo sam kao cu uzet atp bodove. Svaka cast

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

haha, samo tako dalje 💪💪

@dmitryprivate6558 4 жыл бұрын

Google Translate it to: Every day I study everything and absorb as if there is no tomorrow and I have 130 kg bite as I will take atp points. Congratulations. Close?

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

haha, not that close. He just said in a joking way that he’s absorbing my information so well he’s ready to take ATP points

@dmitryprivate6558 4 жыл бұрын

Intuitive Tennis can't trust Google :)

@rharrell1 4 жыл бұрын

Great video the serve is probably the most difficult skill to master in sports. I think there are about eight moving parts to get correct to have a dynamic stroke. Just curious do you consciously move your arm on the serve or does it move as a result of the momentum and force generated from the ground. I guess what I am asking is the racquet in the serve being pulled or pushed. Is it best to hold the racquet arm back for as long as possible and let the force generated from the ground move it naturally in that you are not consciously trying to move it.

@joelhammrac 4 жыл бұрын

Spot on.

@SportSkillWonder 4 жыл бұрын

CLASS !!

@kabirinaganti 4 жыл бұрын

When did you start playing tennis Nick? What inspired you to pick up a racquet?

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Kabir, I grew up next to a tennis club and my dad has been a tennis coach his whole life so it came natural to me to pick up a racquet at 5yo

@toddwhitbread6523 3 жыл бұрын

My coach had a radical way of serve progression. When we were very much juniors, he would have us use the western grip to serve. Because that way we would develop our swing path properly. So when it came time to using the correct grip, the only thing we had to learn was pronation at contact. If you try to learn with the correct grip straight away, you can end up with a bad swing path (large portion of your serve) to make sure you had flat contact. It was really effective. And I’d like to hear your thoughts.

@carlosgomez-hs8bw 4 жыл бұрын

sorry, but i disagree. idk if wta players dont fully pronate, but on atp most of the top 20 ranked players fully pronate, there re a few that pronate half way. i’ve tried it and as you say its hard to maximize power and speed, but doing full pronation well done makes the ball go faster with less effort... the problem is is not easy to do at max power or speed. it takes a lot of work to make it, a life time maybe

@aymankhatan6982 3 жыл бұрын

Greetings, you are sincere

@younesyakoubi8678 2 жыл бұрын

Love this channel

@IntuitiveTennis 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@RubinStJohn-rl4qx 4 жыл бұрын

Accelerate to the max!

@willkittwk 4 жыл бұрын

Interesting no paralysis by analysis. I try to hit a couple hundred serves every practice session. Not only helps getting rhythm and sync down but helps zero in on locating serve. Best to have a good returner on other side so you can see what really going on.

@umutkara739 3 жыл бұрын

I'll try it.

@roos3013 Жыл бұрын

Hi Nick! i don't believe you when you say i didn't know what the pronation was back in the days.

@olafsrensen9578 3 жыл бұрын

I see theres a little supernation before the racket is moving on edge and pronates a miliesecond before contact.. I think Sampras finish is /was much more visibel than other players (Federe forinstans). I think Federes serv is the bedst of all times and got him out of troubel constently.Thanks for this video about uncounsly pronation. I pronated uncouncesly i my youth like you and put a lot of effortless power into the serv, and it got me many free points.

@yourbedroompunk7601 3 жыл бұрын

Hey, what string is that?

@jonathanchen1026 4 жыл бұрын

I do this a lot

@dmitryprivate6558 4 жыл бұрын

Nikola, thank you for the video and the lesson. Great suggestions. However, I live in New England where it is cold I can't practice serving outside. The only thing I can do is shadow serving in my family room (tall ceiling). My question, when I shadow serve, should I swing as hard as possible? That is, as if I am actually serving. Or, better to do drills with slow shadow serves? Thanks in advance.

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

Hi Dmitry, I’m not a fan of shadow strokes for multiple reasons which I’ll get into in a future video. Try finding a indoor court or serve against the wall.

@dmitryprivate6558 4 жыл бұрын

@@IntuitiveTennis Thank you, Nikola. Strange that I no longer receive notifications of your new videos. And I didn't receive an email of this reply. I just happened to go back and saw it. KZfaq is not perfect.

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

I know what you mean Dmitry. I don’t always get emails as well. I upload every Friday morning 6am.

@willzsportscards 5 ай бұрын

IF, big if, you 1) have everything set up properly up to contact and 2) you have generated enough racket head speed,then pronation happens naturally.

@willkittwk 4 жыл бұрын

I know what your getting at. Some players think if you tell them some technical part it's gonna work just by mental assimilation. In reality you have to do it physically over and over till you get it down. Like you say thousands of times to even begin to tune in.

@FACTS_WORLD70 2 жыл бұрын

I thick when you coil for serve and make trophy pose then pronation is achieved automatically and naturally as you r at 45 body pose , internal shoulder rotation , head still at contact... Please guide me

@RamsesBM Жыл бұрын

Is it possible for someone to pronate early on the serve? Before making contact on the ball because I see that on my serve that it looks like pronation is too early.

@drbonesshow1 2 жыл бұрын

Pronation is not necessary for a powerful serve. However, if pronation is your goal, then supinate the wrist before you pronate. You will achieve what I call Power-Pronation. There are 6-actions to the wrist, which allow for various tennis serve mechanisms other than Power-Pronation. The 6-actions come in 3 pairs of opposites: (1) supination-pronation (2) radial-to-ulnar deviation and the third, which I use for the most powerful way to serve (3) dorsi-flexion to palmar-flexion. I call this the Inverted Golf Swing. That's right, I've turned the most powerful swing in sports - the golf swing - into a powerful tennis serve. I'm a physics professor involved with the Physics of Sports (aka The Nutty Professor of Sports).

@rickfernandez1395 4 жыл бұрын

Where did you play your college tennis ??

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

Murray State University

@king0vdarkness 3 жыл бұрын

i have this problem :(.... look at the server at @ in this video @ You can see he pronates (in slowmo) however he doesn't rotate his body, so it looks weird and is very slow.... This is the same problem I have. you can compare it to the other guy who's serve is much better How do I fix this, anyone know? I've tried shadow swings, changing stance etc nothing helps

@morten2808 3 ай бұрын

Thinking about pronation while serving is not the same as teaching your body that pronation is safe. I think the latter can speed up the learning process a lot

@gregoryphillips3969 3 жыл бұрын

If a player's fundamentals are good and the arm stays loose and relaxed it's just about the reps.

@juicetest Жыл бұрын

faking it till this video , now accelerate into contact with a relaxed arm .

@JJVee427 4 жыл бұрын

Great video! as a master of the service technique yourself, what do you think about the teachings of Jeff Salzenstein of Tennis Evolution who's also a great player/coach specializing in serves? Watching both your videos at the same time.

@IntuitiveTennis 4 жыл бұрын

Jeff is great

@theonebegotten 3 жыл бұрын

Jeff was a professional. This man never reached that level. But both are flawed in that they know tennis like they know their first language. They can't even remember the trials or will never understand what it's like to learn the game as an adult.

@JJVee427 3 жыл бұрын

@@theonebegotten Oooh why so bitter? The fact is that either are probably way way above your skill lvl, even if Nick himself didn't go pro. And maybe because he chose the teaching route earlier instead of going pro, he's better equipped to teach someone like yourself who's trying to learn as an adult. Adult beginners can learn from any coach in town dude. Both have coached ATP ranked players, that should be enough for you to be thankful for watching these types of videos for free.

@theonebegotten 3 жыл бұрын

@@JJVee427 coulda woulda shoulda. I'm not going to speculate why some people make it to the top level and others don't. But Salzenstein teaches to pronate and has the credentials so who do we learn from

@nuthinbutachump 4 ай бұрын

Great video but jeeeeezzzz pronation is such a mindfuck. After trying to pronate for so long now i'm learning even TRYING to pronate is the wrong thing to do 😂

@thai-hoale8835 Жыл бұрын

1) No such thing as “fake pronation”. By that logic, you could also have fake follow through or fake take back. Instead, I’d say it’s more “inaccurate pronation” or “imperfect pronation”. Help people figure it out instead of discrediting their effort by calling it “fake”. 2) I also disagree with the idea of being “unconscious” while trying to learn pronation. In the beginning, you have to be aware, or conscious, of what you’re doing. And when you get really good it becomes unconscious and you let muscle memory take over. 3) hitting the ball 500 times don’t mean squat if you’re doing it wrong.

@strongbrain3128 Жыл бұрын

These is no fake pronation. There is right or wrong pronation. You can manufacture a pronation if you hold the continenal grip. There is no mystery to pronation at all. You cannot always do the right moves just based on subconscious.

@FACTS_WORLD70 2 жыл бұрын

Dear sir... Try to speak slow.. as your words could be count easily