You’re welcome

I’m glad you have been lucky not to have experienced anything bad.

Thanks.

Is it, though?

@@gracelynne3918 based on overall homicide rates for the last year available, 2023, yes, it is.

You’re welcome. I’m sure you’ll have a good time here, especially with someone local to show you around and keep you out of the dangerous areas.

I’ve seen a couple other KZfaqrs that have also started advising against coming to Ecuador right now. Those that are still downplaying the situation are mostly in that Cuenca or Vilcabamba bubble where they just aren’t seeing what’s happening. It’s only just recently that the official statistics for homicide rates for 2023 have been published, and I think as time passes and more people see exactly how bad it’s gotten you’ll see more KZfaqrs coming to terms with the reality. We’re now at 44.5 homicides per 100k people. For comparison’s sake, Venezuela is at 26.8 and the U.S. is at 5.5. So, about 8 times higher in Ecuador than the US.

@@FallofftheMap We too are invested and so is my father against our recommendations. I wanted to come in renting but my spouse wanted to buy. We love where we live but have noticed some of the closer cities around us have been hide-aways for some of the top people of the Cartel, which I suspected would happen, they also have their goons with them who have killed locals from what I am hearing. I do not want to run but also know the seriousness of what is happening within the country. Hopefully, Naboa will accept the assistance from other nations affected by the smuggling.

Do you think it will spread to vilca? I heard home invasions increasing

@@nickhowden686 I think it already has spread to Vilca. There was a research study done 2 years ago showing high rates of home invasions in Vilcabamba specifically, though the study indicated something entirely different from the cartel driven crime wave we’re currently experiencing. It suggested some of the causes were other expats that knew the victims would not report the crime because they had expired visas or were involved in other types of crime.

@@FallofftheMap thank you.

Thanks. Yes, knowing someone that has become a victim here definitely woke me up from the groupthink of the expats that still believe it’s safe here.

You’re welcome. I do my best to provide useful advice and information.

Thanks.

It has already gotten better.

I agree, in many ways Ecuador has already gotten better, but the improvements are uneven and as the police and military push into lawless zones on the coast violent crime gets pushed into the mountain towns. Yes, overall things feel like they have gotten better in 2024, but there is still a long way to go and it won’t be until about this time next year that we are able to evaluate this year’s crime statistics.

Quito resident here. Very interested in learning WHY they're reporting exaggerations & downright LIES about this country. Outside of Guayaquil & environs...Esmeralda, as well, - i.e., the coast - things are FINE here. No different from pre-pandemic. STOP spreading this media invention!!!

@@gracelynne3918 that’s blatantly untrue. The frequency and types of crime happening in Quito are very different from pre-pandemic.

Yeah, it’s a really unstable and unpredictable time right now.

We have lived in Ecuador for 12 years and never plan to leave. We do live rural and will not travel to the coast nor the larger cities. Have never had any issues with crime at all. We live in the Yunguilla Valley. Prices are also cheaper away from the cities

@@thistime4youI have lived in Cuenca for 11 years and never had a problem. Where is he getting this info?

Thanks.

You’re welcome

De nada. Gracias por tomarse el tiempo de comentar y mirar.

Yeah, my sense is that we’re going to have to wait several years for things to get significantly better and for those of us that invested to feel like it wasn’t a mistake.

There is a bad habit here of blaming everything on the Venezuelans, but the sad reality is that the majority of the active gang members are Ecuadorians. Yes, driving here is intense. I drive a lot, but i definitely avoid driving in some of the more difficult areas such as the centro histórico and Calderón.

I traveled Spain years ago while I was looking for a new country. I didn’t like it much, though I only travel the Catalonian areas and Mallorca. I know I’m in the minority here, but I did not like the food and found the people to be unfriendly. Mostly I couldn’t get down with how expensive it was. The quality of life didn’t justify the high cost of living from my perspective. Perhaps I would have had a different opinion if I saw other parts of Spain. The only place there I really enjoyed was Figueres and Cadaqués.

You’re welcome. It’s definitely not the sort of video I want to make. I’d rather be making videos about my farm or about going on road trips into the Amazon, but there were a couple of videos I saw recently from other expat KZfaqrs that bothered me. It felt like it would be irresponsible not to speak up.

I avoid going out at night, avoid certain neighborhoods and for the time being don’t go to the coastal provinces, and I am friendly with my neighbors so that we can all keep an eye out for each other. So far I’ve been lucky and avoided any real trouble, though I just noticed this morning that some of my tools were stolen from my farm last night.

I’m surprised you don’t see a difference in the centro histórico. In the 11 years I’ve been here I have seen the centro histórico become a lot sketchier, especially later in the day and evening with drunks harassing people and a lot more prostitutes on the streets. My wife used to have a business across the street from Plaza San Francisco. As the area got worse she chose to shut the business down. The main tourist areas are still ok, because they always have some police presence, but a lot of the smaller streets or busy transit areas have gotten significantly worse, in my opinion.

I think that is true of some of the gangs in some areas, but not all of them. Others tend to be more low profile, committing crimes out of a a sense of necessity driven by a lack of opportunities. Though particularly when the violence is between two rival gangs, yes, the violence does seem to be just for the sake of violence and spreading terror. I think the next elections will be a strong indicator of whether Ecuador will get past these problems or whether it will become a narco-state. At the moment the violence is so extreme here because the government is not accepting that it must live with the cartels and accept corruption. That old saying “plata o plomo?” This is what happens when the government chooses plomo (lead) and fights the cartels. If this government is reelected they will, in my opinion, eventually win and Ecuador will be safer for it. If a cartel sponsored government wins, of course the cartels will take over. The level of violence will reduce but only to the level of places like Mexico and Colombia, it won’t go back down to the level it was at before the cartels moved into Ecuador. In other words, either way, we’re probably in the worst moment, and it will either get a lot better but it will take a long time and be a hard struggle, or it will get a little better but it will happen relatively quickly.

@@FallofftheMap interesting overview on the situation. Thank you.

Thanks for your well thought out question. I just purchased a second farm on the Napo province in the middle of the oriente. Organized crime is much lower there. Homicides and violent crime are still relatively high there but mostly due to domestic violence and problems within indigenous communities.

@@FallofftheMap Thank you for your answer. Despite the crime, I think you are in a beautiful country. Just need to find a niche to keep your head down and be comfortable with isolation. A good life can be had and really, 45 murders per 100k people is still really really low. That’s less than a 0.1% percent chance! You have better odds of dying by other means than an intentional homicide.

Can you elaborate? What did she say? Did she have any idea there was trouble coming? Where there signs that the property had been targeted?

It was vague. She said she must be nice to her neighbors because she doesn't wanna be mu....d.

@FightFilms that’s actually pretty specific given the fact that she was then murdered.

In that sense, yes. The whole situation is very shady and doesn't seem like a typical home invasion.

Yeah, 11 years ago when I moved to Ecuador, it was a more stable and safe option compared to Colombia and Peru. At the moment, yes, Ecuador is dealing with serious safety and security issues. However, the incidents of violence against foreign tourists and expats is still higher in Colombia than Ecuador (in Ecuador the vast majority of the violence is between gangs competing for territory while in Colombia it’s common for men from North America to be victims while looking for local women). Also, the cost of driving in Ecuador is way lower than in Colombia or Peru. Gas and diesel are heavily subsidized. The price is creeping up as the government increases taxes and reduces subsidies in an attempt to get the population to accept the actual cost of fuel, but it’s still really cheap for those overlanding across South America.

Thanks. I am starting to look into Paraguay as a back up plan in case things continue to get worse here. There’s a few expats there putting out videos that seem reliable and give me the impression that Paraguay is a lot like Ecuador before the cartels moved in, and since it’s landlocked the narcos have no reason to move into Paraguay.

@FallofftheMap can you recommend any videos of the expats

@@blackbird2056 kzfaq.info/get/bejne/odGVm5qrvM3RhWQ.htmlsi=nUWClKhE1Awx8Blk

Here are 3 of many sources all putting Ecuador’s homicide rate between 44.5 and 45 per 100000 which is the highest in South America and the highest in the would outside of 4 small island nations in the Caribbean. www.statista.com/statistics/984868/homicide-rate-ecuador/#:~:text=In%202023%2C%20there%20were%20approximately,25.9%20reported%20the%20previous%20year. www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/ecuador www.economist.com/the-americas/2024/05/09/the-worlds-most-violent-region-needs-a-new-approach-to-crime

I would say that everything seemed fine then. Everything was not actually fine last year or the year before, but nobody was talking openly about it. The problem was hidden even though the crime rate had already shot up. There was a tendency for expat groups to try to gaslight crime victims insisting that they were unlucky or did something foolish to put themselves at risk and it had a chilling effect on any real information about how dangerous it had become reaching the broader tourist and expat communities. It’s something that affected me too until more and more people I knew personally became victims.

@@FallofftheMap I did just check the stats dude. The one I read Ecuador not most violent in SA and not 4 th in world. Quite a way down the list on 24 report I just read. Which publication was it?

@@nickhowden686 yes, there are several sites online using older statistics. Ecuador is 24th on all the places still publishing using 2022’s homicide statistics.

@@FallofftheMap ah that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying

Thanks for the information. I’m impressed that Peru has been able to maintain such a low homicide rate.

@@FallofftheMap Thanks for your kind words. We came from hell in the 80's and 90's and the lesson was learned. A generation of people who knew to fight adversity during tough times. Prepareness + Love for our country + be ready to die if necessary + respect for our people + economic resource is very important + Interaction and coordination among public and private Organization and Institutions. For example the Mayor of Lima gave to Police the first group of 400 powerful 300cc Honda motorcycle to Police. This will help to fight "raqueteros" who are stealing using motorcycles. Journalism is also making a good job, denouncing bad elements, places where are sold drugs, illegal place for prostitution, etc. "Serenazgo sin Fronteras" + real-time high-tech video surveillance center working together as a whole among several distritos ( cantones). We do have crimes , but at least we are trying to not letting it to spill out. I think Noboa should let people to organize themselves, better sooner than later. My guessing is that Ecuador will have to go through tough time for a while, until everything will be better. In the best case scenario will take 3 to 5 years. Noboa do respect "rights" of criminals and it is an important key factor that do not let having faster results as in El Salvador. At least we are doing our part when we locked up a gang trafficking guns into Ecuador. A shameful situation for us , indeed.

Thank you for asking the best question. Cuenca, Cotacachi, Tena, the Ruta Escondida, and Loja are, in my opinion, the safest areas in Ecuador.

@@FallofftheMap thank you so much sir

Where in Africa are you from? Ecuador has no African restaurants. I’m desperate for good Ethiopian food. I’d kill for some good beef tibs and injera

@@FallofftheMap Liberia 🇱🇷

@@FallofftheMapwish you visit my Country some days 😊

www.statista.com/statistics/262963/ranking-the-20-countries-with-the-most-murders-per-100-000-inhabitants/ And news.gallup.com/poll/468227/ecuador-dangerous-country-latin-america.aspx

What does crime look like in the Orient? Would appreciate a video on your channel discussing it Chris

@@davidkoziar1811 I would be happy to make a video on this topic because it’s very interesting and i think will help others evaluate the risks. For the most part crime rates are lower due both to lower rates of crime and lower trust in the government and reporting of crime. There is far less gang violence and organized crime but more domestic violence and violence involving public drunkenness.

@@FallofftheMap Thank you for the follow up and information. I think the numbers have to be looked at carefully because if most homicides are caused between gangs or are related to domestic issues, expats should be relatively safe. Are there detailed statistics that show who was murdered? If one can isolate the numbers and see how many of them are expats rather than locals, it’ll make a big difference in perceiving the actual risk. If most of those numbers are gang related I wouldn’t see Ecuador as unsafe. Geography is important as well. If murders are mostly along the coast and the Andes has 1 murder for that year, I wouldn’t be troubled by it. Hope you can do a deeper dive into those numbers. I wouldn’t feel safe living in St Louis because “America” only has 5.5 murders per 100k. I’d look at a place like rural Montana instead. Generalizing such a large area isn’t really an accurate accounting of how dangerous it actually is in certain areas.

@davidkoziar1811 I appreciate your nuanced understanding of the problem. Yes, ideally we would have comprehensive data about the victims and specific location data. However, that is a level of detail that is not currently available. I’ve looked. In general, rural U.S. and rural parts of the mountains in Ecuador have low homicide rates, with US homicide rates in places like Montana being about half the rate of rural provinces in the sierra. When looking at the highest homicide areas, like Guayas and Esmeraldas provinces, the comparable rates in Louisiana, the most dangerous sate in the US show U.S. rates vs Guayas and Esmeraldas that are about 5 times higher than Louisiana.

I understand what you’re saying and it’s exactly how I felt until recently. I think part of the problem is that most expats are oblivious to how much crime is happening around them until it directly impacts their friends or family. The area where my farm is sounds similar to your town. It had always felt totally safe… then there was a home invasion, then a couple burglaries, then several attacks on businesses, the. Several vehicles were stolen. There are still people in this community that believe it’s perfectly safe because that are happily unaware of how it’s changed in the past year or two. Yes, it’s true that the worst problems are in specific areas of the coast or neighborhoods in Quito, but a significant amount of crime that has crept into quiet little towns in the sierra is something most people are still refusing to acknowledge. It may be true that it hasn’t hit your town yet, and hopefully it won’t, but i didn’t expect it to spread into my town either… until it did.

@@FallofftheMap I agree, crime is spreading and most of the violent type is related to gangs and drugs. With that being said anyone could be a target. The more you have the more people notice you. An old tractor might not seem like much, unless you don't have an old tractor... Wealth is relative to area, and even though I don't have much by USA standards I am doing ok by Ecuadorian standards on my USA social security. My stepdaughter was offered a job she applied for answering the phone and filing papers at a local company M-F 9 to 5 and Saturdays as a half day, pay $280 a MONTH, she told him no and he countered with $300 and said they provide lunch. Also Saturdays could be a whole day, but no extra pay. I know this is below the minimum wage here, but how many work in these circumstances? So, crime will happen. Good luck to you, hopefully it is only material losses, keep safe, enjoy the content you produce. Fred

I do think these problems will pass, but it might take awhile. As I said in the video, I’m planning on riding this out rather than giving up on Ecuador, but that’s because I’ve already invested everything here. If the pendulum swings in the next election and Ecuador elects a far left president it might be enough to cause me to give up. If they reelect Naboa then I’ll have more confidence that things will slowly improve.

@@FallofftheMapIf they don’t improve in a sort of timely fashion what’s your next move?

@@FallofftheMap I'm with you and, hope he winn the election!! The saddest in all this is, it makes my entire person believe, it's. all done by design and, on purpose 😱 Take care and, enjoy the rest of your weekend.... 👍

​​@@FallofftheMap​. When you have admins and group members in the Expat Facebook groups constantly bashing the President and banning people of different opinions accusing them of saying things that are not true and refusing to show proof they are actually helping the cartel. Isn't that what happened in Mexico so they could get a stooge in their place. Someone who would so their bidding.

That is the bright side. I did just buy a 14 hectare farm this year.

@@FallofftheMap Nice one!

I don’t think you understood what I meant. Yes, Cuenca has much lower crime rates than other parts of Ecuador. That is exactly what causes the expats in Cuenca to have a tendency to be in their little bubble. They feel safe and that sense of safety causes them to tell people that Ecuador is safe. Unfortunately, when crime is as out of control as it is now it tends to move into the areas that were safe. I’ve seen this exact situation happening in the “safe” neighborhoods in Quito and in the towns along the Ruta Escondida. The police and military crack down on one area and the criminals just move into another area. Also, where are you getting crime statics for Cuenca? I’ve seen stats for each province but nothing recent published for specific cities. I understand that some of my opinions are likely to irritate people, especially folks that are very proud of their community and people that have invested here, whether it’s a financial investment or just the time and energy spent becoming a member of the community. I get it. These opinions upset me as well, but I’ve come to terms with this reality. Don’t shoot the messenger. In my opinion we all need to be realistic about what is happening in Ecuador and very careful to avoid giving those who are looking for real information bad advice. I have spent over a decade here. My wife and kids are Ecuadorian. I own 4 properties here. It definitely hurts to see what has happened and accept that investing in Ecuador may have been a mistake.

@@FallofftheMap There is a website that has the stats. Search for "OECO homicidios". Cuenca canton had 63 murders in 2023 (10.5 per 100,000) which would place it at around 70 in the USA just below Fort Lauderdale (11.3 per 100,000). Guayaquil had 886 murders (32 per 100,000) which is the same as Baton Rouge and around 6th most dangerous in the USA. Hope that helps

@@FallofftheMap There is a website that has the stats. Search for "OECO homicidios". Cuenca canton had 63 murders in 2023 (10.5 per 100,000) which would place it at around 70 in the USA just below Fort Lauderdale (11.3 per 100,000). Guayaquil had 886 murders (32 per 100,000) which is the same as Baton Rouge and around 6th most dangerous in the USA. Hope that helps

@@FallofftheMap There is a website that has the stats. Search for "OECO homicidios". Cuenca canton had 63 murders in 2023 (10.5 per 100,000) which would place it at around 70 in the USA just below Fort Lauderdale (11.3 per 100,000). Guayaquil had 886 murders (32 per 100,000) which is the same as Baton Rouge and around 6th most dangerous in the USA. Hope that helps

@@FallofftheMap There is a website that has the stats. Search for "OECO homicidios". Cuenca canton had 63 murders in 2023 (10.5 per 100,000) which would place it at around 70 in the USA just below Fort Lauderdale (11.3 per 100,000). Guayaquil had 886 murders (32 per 100,000) which is the same as Baton Rouge and around 6th most dangerous in the USA. Hope that helps

The La Carolina area is super upscale, but there has been a lot of crime in La Carolina park and the park is now a no go zone after dark. I’ve also heard about several robberies in that area due to criminals targeting wealthier areas.

@@FallofftheMap thanks . My family hears the rumours but cannot find any news channels on Facebook with information about Quito. They don't even go out at night. They are retired. Again thanks

Yeah, things are still mostly ok out at my farm on the Ruta Escondida (about the same distance outside Quito as Yunguilla is outside Cuenca), but even in this peaceful area there has been an increase in crime in the last 2 years. Ecuador is changing even in the campo. It’s not bad yet but i worry for the future.

🙂

Yeah, it’s a weird thing to experience, watching the country change so quickly.

Oops, this IS the same video. Sad. Be safe.

Thanks. Yeah, I watch Don, the grumpy old gringo too. He was recently talking about a shooting right outside his condo in Manta. Apparently someone trying to carjack some guy or something. It illustrated the point that it’s not just gang on gang violence and it’s not just bad neighborhoods as many expats here claim.

True

Yes, but the rules around gun ownership are a bit complicated.

If you do qualify to apply for ownership many things are required like a psychological test, training, and much more

True, there are many requirements to get approved to own a firearm, the costs are high, then, once you own it the restrictions on how you can carry it and what happens if you do use it are also big factors in why so few people are armed here.

@@FallofftheMap have you qualified?

No. I deal with some PTSD and depression issues so I feeling is that owning a firearm would not be the right choice for me.

Ugh, I tried one once just to understand why they are a delicacy here. I don’t get it. They taste gross and they make your fingers stink. Sometimes is not such a good idea to immerse yourself in all parts of the local culture.

Yeah, that never lend money thing is definitely real, and never pay for any service up front. If they can’t wait until the job is done to be paid then they probably don’t plan on actually doing the job. I’ve learned the hard way and lost a few good workers on my farm because I started to trust them and agreed to pay in advance to “help them out.” I guess the temptation to take the money and run was enough for them to lose out on a long term job.

I have no idea how to respond to that. Be aware, most resident visas will require a background check and clean criminal history. If you’ve fallen into the system and have a record you’re probably trapped and can’t escape the U.S. because other countries are not going to give you a chance.

@@FallofftheMap It was a joke, a very bad joke. The end was referencing the fine folks at abundant living Ecuador.

@@chiefenumclaw7960 ah, ok. Apparently I take things too literally.

It’s a shortened version of “Peace. I’m out.” It’s not suggesting that peace should get out.

You’re right, I probably should have included some statistics. Ecuador’s homicide rate in 2023 was 44.5 per 100000 people. There are other sources that put it at 46 per 100000. For comparison sake the US was at 5.5 so Ecuador’s overall homicide rate is about 8 times higher than the US. That said, just like anywhere, there are some areas that account for the majority of the problem. In the mountains where the homicide rates are the lowest the rates are comparable to the overall rates in the U.S. that was for 2023. Of course it will be about a year before 2024’s numbers start to come out but what I’m seeing in my community is a sharp increase in other types of crime, burglaries, vehicle thefts, and extortion. It’s anecdotal at this point because we will have to wait for official figures to verify these sort of anecdotal reports, but I believe in the sierra crime rates are increasing sharply this year.

@@leslie1536 yes, so far Cuenca continues to be one of the safer places in Ecuador. The “it’s never happened to me so it must be safe” argument is pretty ridiculous. I mean, I spent 5 years working in Afghanistan and didn’t get shot, kidnapped, or beheaded… so Afghanistan must be safe, right? Cuenca is relatively safe, with violent crime rates similar to the US as a whole and property crime rates that are slightly higher. Cuenca is only one little part of Ecuador.

Mostly true, though many of us don’t fit that narrative. Many folks still talking up Ecuador are doing so with the best intentions, they believe what they are saying and everything they are saying is true based on their limited experience. It’s not a lack of integrity, but rather a lack of knowledge and experience. Others simply fall into the “push the positive” social media trap. I don’t fault KZfaqrs that honestly share their experiences even if what they have to say is dangerous and ignorant, but I do try to point out the problems with their videos.

You’re statistics, based on my research, are way off. Chicago had a homicide rate per 100000 people of 23.2 while Ecuador’s overall rate was 44.5. Ecuador’s rate was almost double Chicago’s. I have so far been unable to find specific statistics for Quito, but I suspect you’re sense of safety in Quito is similarly inaccurate.

@@FallofftheMap Actually, I realize my stats were from 2021 and not 2023, so yes, it appears that per capita homicide in Ecuador presently may be worse than that of Chicago. At the very least, according to the data that you provide, Ecuador's homicide rate appears lower than other U.S. cities, such as New Orleans (52.2.), Baltimore (46), and Memphis (63). I've been based in Quito since 1998. Personally, I have never faced violent crime, or been robbed or held up. The last time I was in Philadelphia, I parked in a nice part of town and had my rear window broken and a jacket and pair of sunglasses stolen. Maybe it is just my luck, but I feel safer in Ecuadorian cities (except for Esmeraldas) than I do in many U.S. cities.

@Urkuwayku if you want to be es k it down to the city level the situation in Ecuador becomes even more sad.

@@FallofftheMap You can easily find the stats for any city or province of Ecuador by with a search for "OECO homicidios". Quito and Cuenca are no worse than many cities in the USA. Guayaquil, on the other hand, is on par with the most dangerous cities in the world

San Diego had 45 homicides in 2023. San Diego’s population is 1.3 million. Ecuador’s 2023 homicide rate was 44.5 per 100000 people so more than 10 times San Diego’s homicide rate.

From what I’m seeing, a lot of the crime in Quito is starting to move into middle and upper class areas. When the police started cracking down on the gangs a few houses got raided on my block in the el Inca sector. We ended up moving to a safer neighborhood after seeing that. Criminals have started targeting places like La Carolina and Cumbaya because they know there’s money there and the people are less likely to be careful because they just assume that it’s one of the “safe” areas.

I’m looking into getting a “traumatic” gun, something less than lethal. In Ecuador the self defense rules are not very practical. If someone attacks you but they’re using a machete, for example, you will get in legal trouble if you shoot them. The requirement is that you use equivalent force. By using a gun with rubber or plastic rounds, hopefully I can stop an attacker long enough to escape the situation and not risk ending up in an Ecuadorian prison.

@@gracelynne3918 please tell me exactly what you think is an exaggeration? This is based on verified statistics about homicide rates. It may conflict with how safe you feel, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

In my opinion, the ability to either avoid or negotiate yourself out of a conflict is far more important than knowing how to fight. While the police may not protect you, if you defend yourself and injure your attacker the police are very likely to take the side of a local that started the fight. Only once in my 11 years here have I come close to fighting and it was because I flipped off a car full of guys that were honking at my wife. They jumped out of the car and i realized they were drunk and I was outnumbered 4 to 1. Fortunately the guy that was most eager to fight got talked down by one of his buddies.