Romance in fantasy!

Fantasy mounts (aka rideables aka transportation (living, unliving, and mechanical)...

Battles in fantasy books

King killer plot lines (because it bassicly became a short story book)

Sci-fi universes

The Way of Kings in a nutshell. (Also, I definitely agree and it's a great way of putting it!)

I agree. If you look at it that way. We follow these people because they survive not the other way around

That sound like ASOIAF to me.

@@Rik-B My first thought. Also, the difference between Books Jon Snow and Jon Shnow.

Thats how ive always viewed plot armor

How is Denethor being bad at tomatoes the most memorable part of his character? Like at least once or twice a year I think about how he couldn't just eat a cherry tomato without making a huge mess. I didn't even realize until this video that other people felt the same way.

@@Metadaxe because the internet,its random. They found something like a guy eating a tomato badly and the watchers felt uncomfortable by it. It's somewhat meme-able and it's funny because such a great written villain and character is being remembered as a tomato moron. Short answer, it's the internet, don't question it.

@@Metadaxe memes

I WILL NOT BOW TO THIS BASIC TABLE ETIQUETTE FROM THE NORTH

The utter disgust and horror has been burned into out memory.

Totally agree

Isn’t that also a military movie thing? And sci-fi? Though you may count that as fantasy too

@@doxazo5512 I believe that is from the idea that cavalry are the strongest force in the battlefield

Is that really a trope? Should cavalry never be allowed to go anywhere. I guess it’s a trope if it always only comes “just in the nick of time” .

It's a good one!

Same

I’m a sucker for romances 😂

I love me a good romance, but give me some man and woman just being bros; there's nothing wrong with that!

@@DrDolan2000 Exactly! I love seeing relationships like that especially when written well

Thing is it doesn't really matter whether you do romances or friendships, as long as you do them correctly. If you drop a book because someone did romance with someone instead of friendships, you're kinda going about it the wrong way.

Agreed

Villains are hit or miss though... Lord Shen is awesome Tai Lung is just a vengeful prick who only lost to Po because of plot armor and cartoon logic Kai is a regular boring dark lord type

The comedy is amazing too, especially given it's a kids' movie

you forgot the excellent music.

​@@artaum5635 I liked Tai Lung the most out of the villains. He's smart and resourceful, and his character makes sense given that he was a kid getting a singular goal driven into him by Shifu.

Same

Totally! The Kung Fu Panda movies are highly underrated

@@naughtyniffler404 1st movie is one of best 2nd and 3rd are good too.

I recently rewatched that as well a few days ago even, and asp remembered how great It was If only i had an audience to share those thoughts with :p

@@IamnotfromUSA 1st had the best action and humor, 2nd had the best story and 3rd was just all around good except for the main villain Kai

0-20 year old Aragorn was secret royalty. 87 year old Aragorn knows what he is and he wants to get sh*t done

So... Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth? not sure if satire, tho

You mean like The Princess Bride?

Do you watch Terrible Writing Advice? I have a feeling you'll enjoy their videos

Me right now writing a story with only tropes

@@rayraffiki1856 or overly sarcastic productions trope talk

four different fighters (two even picked the same subclass), one wizard, and four rouges that were starting at level one while the other five started at level ten. A horribly balanced party

Frodo: we are going to the land of evil, ruled by a dark lord and occupied by armies of orcs, all while hunted by high level undead. Shouldnt we take a cleric? Gandalf: nah, we will be fine Boromir:

@@terrible209 wouldnt it be 3 fighters wizzard 4 rogues (or 3 if Sam is more of lvl1 warrior) and a hunter/marksman ie. Legolas?

Actually Aragorn is kinda of a ranger/cleric.

It is certainly better than the party of the hobbit: a rogue, a part time wizard, and 13 identical dwarf fighters

He would put it in the E tier xD

I prefer a good rhombus of terror.

D. Draber *S

I can't help but think about him either when I here love triangle, no matter where I hear it.

LOL! That was the FIRST thing that popped in my head as well.

I would've put it in D honestly. I hate love triangles. It would have to be done so fucking perfectly for me to like it that it's not even fair to the author. I think it's a terrible trope

@@THEPELADOMASTER This video actually made me want to write a story with a love triangle as the main focus. The skeleton of it would be some Chosen One hero, raised basically in isolation to maintain some prophetic "purity" requirement by a cult, eventually being released to go fight the Dark Lord. Normal Act One fellowship-gathering ensues, but notably the first woman he ever sees is one of the other points of the triangle. Action-girl type - in fact, let's throw in that "I'm not like other girls" self-hatred in there as well. Make her an abrasive character. Like she's been transported here from the Wheel of Time world. Just constantly needling and talking down to the naive protagonist. Except he, being an stereotypical young man raised in isolation, can't see past his surging hormones and falls head over heels for her (bam! We got instant "love" in there as well). She doesn't take to his instant affection very well. Maybe we learn that this is because she was betrayed in the past. She doesn't want to get close to people. Maybe give her some external flaw that makes her think no one will "truly" love her, they just want to use her. All classic stuff. Act two rolls around, and another female character joins the party, maybe a magic user of some kind (you can even make her a prodigy, but that's not necessary). And this one isn't a flaming asshole. Treats people with respect, including the hero. Maybe the party splits up for a while, and she spends time alone with him. He realizes that hey, here's a person that doesn't treat me like dogshit. Wow, I like her just as much - in fact, I like her more! Except he feels really guilty about that. He thought he loved Action Girl, now he thinks the same way about Mage Girl. So here there's this massive source of inner conflict. And what's more, he's been raised to believe he needs to be morally perfect to accomplish this prophecy. The idea that he would "betray" his "love" starts eating him up inside. When the party regroups, Action Girl notices the new warmth between Mage Girl and Hero. And to her surprise, gets jealous. She had been warming up to the Hero before the split, and was missing his puppy love. And now, in front of her eyes, she's being betrayed again. Rejected again. She's angry and hurt, and starts to take it out on the Hero even more, acting like an even more colossal jackass. But we can see where it's coming from. The low point of her arc comes when she's commiserating with one of the other, uninvolved party members, about how she's being rejected because she's "not a pretty doll hanging off the Hero's arm" and gets told point blank, no, it's because you're an asshole. So, three characters, with two interesting arcs between them. The question is, what to do with the third. The obvious choice is to make her a traitor, an agent of the Dark Lord intent on betraying the party. I'm hesitant to do that, since it makes the whole Hero-Action Girl pair seem inevitable. Then again, having the Hero come around could be a nice capstone to Action Girl's arc, a nice redemption/maturation moment for her. You could twist it for comedy, by revealing she was actually married the entire time, or really an 800-year-old elf or something that was completely uninterested in the Hero but just had a friendly personality. The supposed "love triangle" was just the Hero and Action Girl being super self-conscious and jealous, respectively. Not sure how interesting that would be in practice though. The Hero could, of course, just not end up with anyone, but that seems really dickish to the people that get invested in the romance aspect of the novel, and it seems like that would have to be a large part of this novel to do this particular subplot justice. Would need some more development. Too bad I have too many books I want to write already.

It’s not even a triangle. It’s a love segmented line.

@@Aredel THANK YOU. what most people call love triangles is just a love *angle* because damn near never are the two (often male) love interests also interested in each other! the romantic prospects have to be connected to each other to imply the third line completing the triangle!!!!

They also became true tropes largely due to tolkien

Let's go niners

@@Liam-ve1ir TreyDay

@@dannygld23 Trey Area lfg

Darrei Deamos Everything is evil in a SoulsBorne game! 😂

Dark souls forest or swamps are straight up out to get you

Fuck farron keep

Fuck blight-town all my homies hate blight-town

"Leaked: fromsoft's new game has a swamp in it!" "We know."

Yes! This!

Logen 9 fingers is my fav take on that trope

@@GhostBusters-wb4un I feel like Doomguy is more " done with this shit" than "tired of this shit" since he never gets exhausted by it, he is boundlessly passionate. But he's definitely a standout on the spectrum.

Also realised I omitted possibly my favourite example, Raziel from the Legacy of Kain series!

I want to see a good third or half of a book develop a student/old master relationship only to kill off the student and have the grumpy old master save the world by themself instead

The tricky part is that they are only clichés if used poorly. These tropes define the genre. That's the tricky part of hating on some tropes and not others. Some ARE overused. It's probably a good idea to steer clear... until they been off the scene for a while. Then you circle back around. A lot of the most popular books don't follow popular opinion--they shape it.

It's because there's only so many ways a story can go to make it interesting. When you break down the fundamental strokes of every plot, a lot of them share a lot of things. Most stories have been written already. You just have to find a way to make it interesting

Trope =\= cliché

Pretty much impossible.

Its kinda impossible to write anything without cliché. Clichés are pretty inherently in writing because they basically just translate to the assumptions we all make on a daily basis to get through the day. Our brains are literally wired for pattern recognition and it’s because we recognize patterns that we can get through the day. For example, I wake up and feel a rumbling in my stomach. I know because of pattern recognition (and basic survival instinct) that the next step is to make or buy food to eat (or if you’re me ignore it until it goes away which I also know kinda works). Clichés are just common patterns we recognize. They aren’t inherently good or bad (as stated), but it depends on how they’re used. Take plot armor for example with the broader definition including plot convenience and etc you can’t not have it. Some things NEED to happen to advance the plot or story or character growth. You CAN affect how much of those things feel overly forced vs organic/natural plot, but that’s it. Let’s say the big bad kills the chosen one asap, okay how did they know they were the chosen one? Did no one else know? Why wasn’t the chosen one being protected or hidden if it’s something you can know? How are they the chosen one if they’re defenseless this early in their life? Why wouldn’t the chosen one be made or chosen AFTER they’ve passed X trials or trained enough? And it goes on and on. Eventually we all know the answer is just gonna be “because the author/story needed it to happen” and that’s fine. The problem is when that’s the answer far too often and its far too glaringly obvious.

Old mentor is actually the villain: S+ teir

Old Mentor vs Fallen Apprentice: S+ Tier

Old Mentor is Actually the villain, but his apprentice change his heart, but after that the Apprentice become the real villain: SS+ Tier

@@Jamdoe That legit sounds really nice, but I wonder if its been done before, because I have not seen it in anything I read lol. Any suggestions?

@@Jamdoe but then apprentice villain reveals that all along it was actually the old mentor that was the true villain all along SSS+

I feel like this is so easy to write badly, especially if this character is the protagonist or a protagonist-sided side character.

@@MagizardInternet the prodigy in this scenario is one of the antagonists

@@PedroGarcia-jj2xs That's fine loads easier then. The idea lends itself well to a prick, so antagonist is the way to go.

I have anti prodigy idea where Ch is super powerfull but he do not have talent so he strugle to handle that power

@@volttur3711 I think that's Carry On by Rainbow Rowell. S-tier power, E-tier skill, main character at magic school.

Yep the Dark lord drove him mad. And seen what he could do to Saruman it's a great sign for Denathors morals that he only became that bad instead of getting fully corrupted.

Riakm Especially the way he was portrayed in the movies. Very reminiscent of King Lear, Othello and Macbeth.

Agreed, Denethor wasn't evil. Comes out better in the books.

Yes, he's tragic...Until he tries to burn you alive and runs RIGHT PAST the WATER FOUNTAIN and throws himself over the edge and falls....while BURNING. (Movie Denethor)

@@Juhani139 crazy human fireball in the movies...

You step into a large room with a small crevasse in the middle. You jump across the crevasse. *Roll... 1* The room collapses on you.

I’d say the story that most closely replicated the tension of D&D is Goblin Slayer. Like, for a show with basically no character death I am never not on edge.

It's also free of the chosen one, since... The chosen one can't die and will stop the bad guy. And in D&D anyone can die at any time and anyone can finish off the bad guy. Now that I think about it, I guess instead of chosen one you could have chosen *ones* but still, the risk of death is still there.

@@THEPELADOMASTER There can only be one Chosen One. It's in the name.

@@Former_Halo_Fan that's why I said instead of one the chosen could be the whole party and have chosen *ones* since in dnd you don't have a single protagonist

I was thinking the same thing, I'm surprised he didnt even mentioned it

You referring to the TV show Jon Snow right? Cause we honestly don't know how GRRM will use Jon in the upcoming books. If GRRM utilizes Jon's plotline well then I daresay it'll be fricking fantastic and raise the series even higher.

well, he’s not in the books (yet, at least).

@@annie-il9dj Jon is one of my favorite characters, but i'd rather he stays dead than having the same fate he had in the series

I got a Question. What are some really good examples of a High Fantasy series that has these qualities?: -A fantasy world that is its own mythology -Epic fight scenes and wars -Intense magic battles -A hugely expanded magic system -The archetypical hero’s journey -Dragons, Unicorns, Griffins, Sea Monsters, Phoenixes, and other known mythical beasts -Stunningly beautiful and smart female characters and love interests -Romantic story arcs that involve love and sex -Conflicts involving politics -Themes and elements and faith and religion -Spiritual and psychological themes -Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Ghouls, Vampires, Merfolk, Fairies, Centaurs, and other non-human races -Different languages that are spoken by non-human languages -A feared and all-powerful dark lord who is after the main hero -the archetypal wise wizard -a community of wizards and sorceresses -Dark themes of tragedy, corruption, betrayal, and genocide -A tone that turns into being dark and gritty while always being mature from the start -Characters that are realistic and relatable in personality -Light and positive themes of faith, love, friendship, loyalty, honor, sacrifice and optimism

He already did one for his books, but i'd love a tier ranking of Sanderson characters!!

The stick js S tier hands down

Dude a character tier list would need about 100 episodes

Dew it

There better be a Dalinar-tier above S.

hold the door

I was totally coming to leave this comment bahahaha. My mind was like where is he going with this?

what does it mean then?

Feminine products are period products. Tampons and the like.

The problem with saying that is some people think that, but I've only heard of tampons, pads, etc. referred to as 'feminine *hygiene* products,' so feminine products is completely fine. I hear that and think more of nail polish and makeup stuff among other things that are associated with femininity.

@@changelingreader14 Except that those products are not marketed that way and people who use them do not refer to them that way. Nor are nail polish and makeup used exclusively by people who use tampons etc.

I rewatched that movie recently and oh boy, its fucking knee-breakingly hilarious when that happens

It is, tbh, entirely accurate knowing there are animals scarier than us but we can be even more scary

I honestly hate it at this point

subversion done right indeed. Alos the fact that this difference came from life and not a pure choice of the character made out of contempt.

And it’s only in THoA that she actually acknowledges that she CAN be both a fierce warrior AND a noble woman who enjoys makeup, gowns and jewelry. I just love this trope in the series!

“Vin isn't...like other women." Tindwyl raised an eyebrow, her voice softening slightly. "I think that the more women you come to know, Your Majesty, the more you'll find that statement applies to all of them.”

Vin and Mistborn are amazing

And sometimes there are those Karen types, where all of them are more or less the same.

Age of fire is a good one

You want monsters? SCP has monsters. Like 'SCP 939: With many voices'.

Personally, Dragons, Wendigo and Genies all the way.

Man so much of what makes Witcher interesting is all the subversions/plays/twists on established ideas of fantasy monsters and the deep cuts to European myths and lore.

I always wanted to write a story in which the so called "Demons" are actually the nice guys and the real bad ones are the gods and humans. Any ideas?

AND 3!

The 3 was very disapointing to me, but 2 is great indeed

I hated the third movie, but the other two are borderline perfect

Daniel Greene Three was not good. It was dulled down for kids. Like, the first 2 were dark but kiddish. You could enjoy the stupid moments but also liked the serious dark moments. The third just lost that an went full childish mode.

I actually enjoy the third movie but I can agree that it is far from 1 and 2. 2 is my favorite because the villain is made for Po, whereas 1 is Shifu's villain and 3 is Oogway's villain.

Enemies to lovers always feels cheap to me because it seems to be one of the most popular tropes among fandoms, such as Zuko - Katara or... Well, actually that's the biggest one I can think of. I see it with like Harry Potter and Draco, too, though. I'm sure it can be done well, but it just screams Fanon OTP™ to me. Friends to lovers has been done very well, though. My first thought was the Percy Jackson series, where I think Riordan did a good job taking his time to build the relationship. Somewhere in between friends to lovers and InstaLove™ is the relationship where the characters obviously feel some attraction pretty early on, but their relationship still takes time to develop into something truly romantic.

@@OrionSeas did you forget Yggrite and Jon snow? It was done beautifully

@@OrionSeas Zuko and Katara don't fit that tho. I do think that it can be written properly tho if you just have time in a story to do so. The only problem is that typically, stories don't have enough time to show the villainous be evil and then not only change for the better but also be in a relatiomship with someone on the enemy side.

Not quite enemies, more like antagonistic. Midna and link from twilight princess. At the start she clearly thinks of link as nothing but a servant but by the end it can easily be interpreted that she fell in love with the mute lug.

Enimies to lovers is for bad fanfic writers imo. Doesn’t make much sense. The farthest enemy becoming close trope id go is enemies to friends.

If an author's going to play the Useless Sacrifice card, they really have to let the sacrifice mean something first, even for an instant. When it's revealed to be ultimately useless in the large scale, make it affect the surviving characters. It can be done well, but so many people have a needless sacrifice just because a pre-written plot calls for it without understanding the reason it happened or the effect it had on everyone. Even when Jorge-052's sacrifice was undercut within a minute of a single cutscene, you still felt like he was justified in giving himself up to detonate the slipspace drive. Carter even says, "He died thinking he just saved the planet. We should all be so lucky." Please, PLEASE, can authors stop including stuff without making it mean something?

I'd love to have an inversion of that, honestly. A member of royalty finding out their heritage is a lie, and their life comes crashing down.

The Once and Future Jake I think that could work on a lot of different levels but it would be a huge development with little payoff if we simply invert the trope. I think hidden lineage works better doesn’t have to be royal lineage but where the character and reader know it but the author moves to a place where the other characters experience the reveal and if done well you include the reader in on the surprise party.

@@thefinderskeep1680 Well, I was more thinking about the journey you could take with that kind of inversion. It isn't supposed to be set up for big payoff, but more the surprise catalyst to a downward spiral. I definitely don't think that using a trope like that would end happily. So maybe some kind of character study of a person losing everything and how that journey shapes them in unexpected ways.

@@TheOnceandFutureJake The decoy princess by dawn cook. You're welcome. (its about a girl finding out she was only a decoy for assassins bought off a beggar while the real princes was swaped with her in childhood and send away to a save place. Neither of them knew - until an political marriage and a war need the truth to come out. Welp) Edit: as a bonus, the magic system of this world was really cool too. Like its kinda based on poisoning yourself as far as my memory recalls (its been a lot of years since i read this, but i stll remember a lot bc it has a lot of very original ideas!)

The Once and Future Jake yeah we saw that with Loki finding out he wasn’t a Prince of Asgard but born a frost giant. I like the character study portion and yeah it would be totally a world crashing down moment for sure

Korrasami was nice, but you’d have to make both the characters show their gay/bi/pan side every now and then so it makes sense when they end up together.

Tbh, if I was the leader of the army that is getting raped by the enemy and my allies finally comes in the last second. I would be hella pissed and relieved

I used to do that when I was younger in elementary school writing simple short stories that usually went like "When he (main character) thought all was done, suddenly (army from someone he helped earlier) shows up and they kill all of the bad guys and they live happily ever after-" you get it

No! Wrong! Liar reveal can NEVER be done right- no matter who is doing it. There are several tropes that suck so bad no one can ever do them right as far as I am concern ed and should never be used again.

@@MrParkerman6 Whats liar reveal?

@@MrParkerman6 people lie all the time in real life tho...

I feel like Daniel's ranking by likeliness to be good for a story. The Dark Lord isn't low B because Daniel doesn't have particular fondness for it, he's a huge fan of LotR and WoT, it's because he thinks it doesn't have as high of a success rate as the Mentor or even the Dark Forest. I think he's going for exactly what you're talking about. Sure, any trope can be executed well, but some need more work on the author's part than others. As he says, the Fifth Sorceress is garbage, but even there the mentor was able to elevate it a few millimetres.

@@silverhawk1045 i dunno if u still want this answer but imma say it anyway. Liar reveal is when usually the lies told by protagonist are revealed. It can be any type of lies. In How to train your dragon, Hiccup kinda puts up a facade that he's a good dragon hunter when really he's the opposite. In Alladin, he lies that he's a prince when he's not. Gulliver tells the little men that he's a savior in his county. When these lies are all revealed, everyone is, in most cases, disappointed. And drama unfolds. This is lie reveal. Nd it can be annoying sometimes.

I’d argue Secret Royalty is more fulfilled by A New Hope, with Like finding out he has the Force, like his father before him. Finding out his father is Darth Vader probably is more of a Villainous Lineage.

Carrot Ironfoundersson! One of my favs!

First law handles royality trope well imo

Warhammer Fantasy Battle has dope Dark Forests.

yeah I‘m really intimidated now because I am going for a secret royalty trope in the first book of my series but it‘s hinted at

Question. What is a good High Fantasy series that has these qualities?: -A fantasy world that is its own mythology -Epic fight scenes and wars -Intense magic battles -A hugely expanded magic system -The archetypical hero’s journey -Dragons, Unicorns, Griffins, Sea Monsters, Phoenixes, and other known mythical beasts -Stunningly beautiful and smart female characters and love interests -Romantic story arcs that involve love and sex -Conflicts involving politics -Themes and elements and faith and religion -Spiritual and psychological themes -Elves, Dwarves, Goblins, Ghouls, Vampires, Merfolk, Fairies, Centaurs, and other non-human races -Different languages that are spoken by non-human languages -A feared and all-powerful dark lord who is after the main hero -the archetypal wise wizard -a community of wizards and sorceresses -Dark themes of tragedy, corruption, betrayal, and genocide -A tone that turns into being dark and gritty while always being mature from the start -Characters that are realistic and relatable in personality -Light and positive themes of faith, love, friendship, loyalty, honor, sacrifice and optimism

I guess you could write an novel of Urban Fantasy without an epic world, but even there it would be a bit difficult, since a lot of UF has portal type elements, from Dresden Files on down. 🤔

Well, there are a lot of non-epic fantasies that are still amazing. But yes, it is a a lot more difficult, and I get what you’re trying to say.

Depends on a very built up world like Tolkien’s or a small world like in The Last Apprentice series where the world is kinda small and everything outside of the areas where the story is going on, doesn’t matter. Small worlds work well when used well.

There's a DND campaign that takes place entirely within a city

Because "trope" is another old word that's coming back into fashion despite the fact that everyone is apparently too busy to look up what it means in this context.

I mean it’s questionable if it’s even real so idk if that counts strictly

True mcguffins are such a useful trope too. It provides a clear direction/motivation without needing to justify the 'why'. The criminals want the pearl/cat statue/ left glove because it grants power/wealth, great now let's move on to seeing how the charecters act and react. It gives momentum but allows us to really focus on the 'who' and 'how' of the charecters. It's one of the reason Hitchcock films are so good. We don't really care about what exactly the charecters are trying to do (run off with lots of money) it's much more about their emotions, ways of handling stress, interaction with obstacles, dreams etc.

Yeah, the One Ring wasn't a Mcguffin in Lord of the Rings. We have been told, "Power corupts, absolute power curupts absulutely." This was the central theme of Lord of the Rings. We see all kinds of characters in Tolkien's work. There might kings, and the lowest of the low. Power corupted them all. I've alway argued that Gollem was the hero of Lord of the Rings. Yes he was corupted, but he always controled the ring, they ring never controled him. You could say, Lord of the Ring was a story about an Evil ring was held captive, but escaped. The ring tried to be free, but in the end, it was captured, and destroyed by the weakest, and lowest of people.

A better example of a mcguffin would be the army of the dead, though it's more of a mcguffin in the movies than the books.

Still a McGuffin. That’s not a bad title I mean the ring was one of the first so who cares.

Just cuz something has a use doesn't make it any less of a MacGuffin, dumbass.

Say our main character is a really good swordsman who manages to fight his way out of

i don't see the difference between the two, honestly. In order for plot armor to work, the character must have a minimum amount of skills, wits and preparation to escape death in the situation he encounters (also people ready to protect him/her for satisfying reasons).

@@benjaminthibieroz4155 There is a big difference. Let's say we are in a war. Not 100% of the people die in a war., Someone lives through it, sometimes through sheer luck, not even skills necessary. Say there is a plane crash, 150 people die, 3 live, just because they sat in the right seat. Want to write a book about survivors guilt? Would you tell a story from the perspective of the 150 dead people? This is NOT plot armor, we just follow the story of the survivors. It can become plot armor, if there are obstacles no one would live through, but they do(3 plane crashes in a row? ;)). In the end it just comes down to how this is done. If you can make the reader forget that we all know the protagonist will live through it, you've done it right.

@@BoredMarcus Exactly, a stories written about someone who went through interesting things, and who saw them play out. No one else is the MC because they're boring.

@@BoredMarcus You're right about luck, it's an essential factor. Problem is: it's not a factor the reader will easily accept. Sheer luck is realistic but can look like cheating. Also, though i understand what you mean with the second case, it doesn't classify as plot armor to me. Plot armor apply to obstacles over the course of the story. In your example, survival is the mandatory premise of the story.

I can't even get started with the first book. All my respects to Daniel, but it's way too wordy.

I waded through the first... ten books was it? Robert Jordan definitely could have used a stricter editor.

Oh Same! Also has a side of “Not like other girls”. “Instalove” And “Undercooked Fellowship” And “perfect Prodigy.” Erg.

Really?! One of my absolute favorite parts of The Wheel of Time is the depth, variety, and familiarity of the relationships. They all seem natural and real and they grow and develop in believable ways throughout the series. There are great friendships, romances, casual acquaintances, reluctant allies, and more. Yes, some of those dozens upon dozens of relationships feel less original, but for every "I've seen this before" there are several "They should do this more often"s.

Ooh yeah, this is a good one

Interesting. Could we have an example? :)

Samuel Leask Game of Thrones Seasons 7-8

@@samuelleask1132 a subtle instance of plot armor would be a character managing to escape through luck or something like that, while the more annoying kind of plot armor is when a character is being shot at by a trillion archers/snipers and MAYBE they only get hit on the shoulder at worst, which is annoying because it's like there's a switch that turns the enemy forces into incompetent idiots whenever the MC is around. but even more annoying than plot armor is plot de-armor, which is pretty much when a character gets stabbed THROUGH THEIR FUCKING ARMOR, with normal weapons.

@@samuelleask1132 The single worst plot armour i have ever seen is June/Offred not being killed ever in the handmaids tale. People get hung drawn and quartered all over the place for the most minor infraction and she is just strutting around cause mayhem and literally nothing bad happening. How my girlfriend managed to get me to watch 4 seasons of the utter garbage is beyond me.

I mean it takes the character from part of their worries being about the feelings of others and not hurting someone they care about, to worrying about their own potential feelings of disappointment at choosing the wrong relationship.

Okay, but I've seen it done (and done well) ONCE but unfortunately it was in a very late installment of the Cassandra Claire books and I wouldn't wanna force those books on anyone who isn't interested anyways. But I liked it alright in there :)

I have a similar triangle in a story I'm working on where one is pansexual but the other two who like eachother are hetero. So rather than a triangle its a mutual romance between two parties with the third struggling to move on. I was a bit nervous including it and the character wasn't pansexual until I began getting further in the outline and I suddenly realized that she had good chemistry with the girl as well. I kinda like the "unrequited and complicated love" trope and I don't see it happen too often where a character has to really let go of those feelings and move on. (And yes the character is planned to have an arc where she moves on)

oh you mean an *actual* triangle?? refreshing to see lol

Can it be an amulet or an armband?

I agree. True MacGuffins are supposed to be meaningless. The Ring is full of character and meaning and relevance to theme

@D S You literally described a Macguffin, dumbass. The rings are Macguffins, dumbass. Get over it.

@@MrParkerman6 that's not the definition of a macguffin

@@zachhecita A Mgguffin can be a person. Princess Peach in Mario Bros is a Mgguffin.

It isn't really a mcguffins in the 3 book because it doesn't really do anything other than forfill the prophecy

@@nicthebull That's what makes it a Mcguffin in the 3rd book. It's only purpose at that point was that people wanted it and wanted to fulfill a prophecy

@@andrewdiaz3529 I've misunderstood the meaning of the term then 😅

Yes, thank you... the one ring is definitely not a McGuffin

@@hckytwn3192 Yeah the ring is basically a character all of its own. Hello Future Me did a video about it, I didn't remember it all as I'm not a big Lord of the Rings fan but I feel it's good.

yes i was just thinking this!!

The 300 movie : this sign can't stop me cause I can't read

i mean the alternative is "evil = pretty" and that itself is also sort of overused in my opinion, but in another way? people know that one is more predisposed to judge someone negatively if they are unkempt, unclean, disheveled, unsightly. often, the trope is subverted for a twist villain being "* gasp * the attractive one ?? but the old hag and her glass eye and her creepy leering totally had us convinced!" im tempted to say that this subversion is more common than the trope you mentioned, at least due to modern example, but maybe thats just because of the ham-fisted moral lesson of "beauty is skin deep" that's always tacked onto this subversion? it kinda makes it stick out like a sore thumb anytime i witness it lol

Agreed! I especially would like to see more main characters being mentors/teachers. Often protagonists are the ones being tought things, so I find it interesting to see them in different roles - in particular if the main character starts off as a student and turns into a teacher as the story unfolds.

Isekai is usually so bad yet so good that every time i read anything with an actual publisher i feel like I'm reading LotR.

I love everything on your list

I love myself some isekais. I generally like escapist fantasy and now that it jumped into the Western sphere of writing I see more interesting uses, like a doctor just being isekaid into a fantasy realm and turning into a prophet.

- mc's love interest also being the mentor and the two of them fighting side by side as equal badasses

I mean it’s kind of an A or S Tier trope because it can be done very well. Especially Ankh-Morpork.

Germ-X Agreed, I like them a lot, they’re usually very entertaining settings

gross, crime ridden cities AKA cities. That's like saying glass, transparent windows

New York

Ketterdam? (Six of Crows)

Don't know if you read Well of Ascension, but Vin should definitely should have died in that book

Even then there is plot armor

True. It was done in a way it felt like as if Joe Abercrombie was mocking the secret royalty trope.

Man, what tropes didn't he subvert in First Law? *****SPOILERS***** He subverts fighting tournaments, wizard mentors, quests, evil torturers, instant love, Helm's Deep style last stands, and probably many more I can't remember.

@@calebmauer1751 He didn't really subvert fighting tournaments as almost all fighting tournaments have a twist to them.

@@alexquin4001 It could be that they're just all subverted these days. I don't know cause now I can't remember any except from that Brent Weeks book where the main character wins one by cheating.

Or from blade runner 2048 he was the clone

It's most probable that your idea won't be original and unique. Don't fret on it. The execution is what nails the trope.

@@thesaintzor625 Yeah that's very much true. Here's to hoping my editing phase will boost that sequence up

@@e443productions9 Best wishes. I have finally started writing the actual story for a world I have been building for 2 years and hope to execute some tropes well and subvert some.

@@thesaintzor625 Good luck to you too!

Ok

Definitely S-Tier

D-tier for me. I am so goddamn sick of dragons

Biodiversity appreciation

Just like all tropes, can be amazing as well as annoying...but, hey, dragons are cool. Aren't they the embodiment of all of what makes fantasy great? Epicness and grace, horror and wonder, beauty and fear,... A-tier for me.

Another Shadiversity fan! Come, join the fight against nunchucks!

magic city for life

I just came here after watching your video 😂

Instead of going with classical fantasy tropes, Sanderson has his own list of tropes that he tends to use: dead parents, arranged marriages, super hard magic systems, interactions of different magic systems, morally gray mentors, deific ascension/descension, easter egg characters doing things behind the scenes. They're mostly pretty great tropes, part of that Branderson/Cosmere flavor, and he's usually good at subverting them (esp. in Warbreaker), but they are there. P.S. 17th Shard has a great video up on Brandon tropes - it's really hilarious.

take just the final empire and count how many of these tropes are in that book. sandarson isn't anti-trope. he just does it better.

Yeah, tropes are pretty much unavoidable because they're basically a categorical description of common plot devices. If you don't have tropes you probably don't have a story. The trick, and the thing Sanderson has said repeatedly that he works really hard to do, is to find creative ways to take a trope and twist it, turn it on its head, or otherwise do it in a new way.

Nice read. Reminds me of ash's treecko..

@@simohayha6031 thank you. But what is ash treecko??

Not really this, but I really enjoyed the way Altan Trengsin from The Poppy War was done as a prodigy. He starts out as a character at the academy that the main characters see from a distance and look up to and envy, but becomes someone you see up close in the second half and you see that his being a prodigy was almost forced on him and he is actually quite messed up. Edit: And the thing that makes him a prodigy is also taking a toll on his life in a way.

@@drlc6051 that is also a really good way to change that trope

@@kutstupid5480 from Pokemon. Ash is the character, Treecko is a Pokemon that Ash has.