Separate, Adam and Chris make incredibly informative and insightful podcast. But together… you two being such a power of discerning inquiry, philosophical reflection and open humility, and consistently offer as many new gems of knowledge as new questions to pursue. For someone that is a student of life and conceptualization beyond the firmament, this is a golden ticket scenario for me. Thank you both. I always appreciate your offerings.

To see both of my teachers together makes me so proud to study this art 😭🦚💜

Both of you over the last 6 years have accelerated my learning more than any other astrologers out there. Also Austin and a few others, but you guys are my main sources of astrological knowledge and I thank you.

The quiet love and deep respect with which Chris talks about astrology is truly inspiring ❤ ❤❤

For anyone interested in this question I highly recommend the work of Donald Hoffman. Listen to the Lex Friedman podcast where he talks about the scientific possibilities of consciousness being the foundation of existence. It doesn't matter how far the stars are when there's good scientific evidence that the framework of time and space is not the end all be all of physics.

Yeass! Two astrology Jedis finally come together! So excited to see this.

Two of the most skilled and intelligent astrologers together in a conversation. That is a mitigating factor in the face of the Saturn Sun conjunction. Thanks to you both.

Great discussion. Too bad I didn’t know about the poll, I would’ve asked if the birth chart could be a sort of representation of our soul contracts.

You guys both are my favorite astrologers and I love to see you talking, especially on such a topic like Fate. 👏

To me, the causal element of astrology feels most evident in the relationship between the Moon and Earth ie. the tides.

Wow! This is awesome! The 2 🐐🙌🏽 what a treat! Please collaborate more often!!!

Looove Chris. Such a brilliant mind

Woo!!! Been looking forward to this video for a while :)

Yes! Love you both. Chris, I have your book and love your podcast. Adam, took your class and have followed you for years. So grateful for you both and for the time and work you’ve each dedicated to astrology.

The Leo King just talked about this on his Astro Channel. Fate and Destiny seem to be coming up a lot as Pluto enters Aquairus.

Super, marvellous episode, I will listen this again

Both my guys I follow and check in every day for my astro forecast! Love you guys ❤ Thank you both for sharing your knowledge ☺

My two favorite astrologers together again!! ❤️

Love you guys🥰. Astro brains!!!

can't wait for this...❤

Brennan mic drops in his closing statements!

I'm so happy for this conversation🥰... but I did think it was a live 😔 maybe next one?😉

I can share that I was not served by astrologers who downplayed a very challenging Pluto transit through my 4th. No one came even close to capturing the experience. I recently learned I was living on my Pluto line during the transit. Just glad I am almost done!

💜Thank you Adam and Chris💜

Thank you for this conversation! Many blessings!🙌🌟🕊

Looking forward to your conversation!

Awesome!!! Thank you Adam and Chris!!

Yes! Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! 💃

I have a friend whose mother was literally eaten by dogs... Just goes to say that there are reasons why the ancients cite very specific extremes. 💫

Brilliant chat! I love seeing you both work together, and the depth to which you are able to go is enlightening in itself. This is why you are both my chosen teachers. Together, you give me astrological yin yang vibes ☯️ pt2 please!!

Tha nk you both very much

It was fate and free will that brought me to these two teachers. What they've taught me and the reverence these two hold for the art and science of astrology will forever be in my heart. Thank you both for helping this night chart make sense of Saturn ✨💜

Simply…thank you, thank you, thankyou! A brilliant talk and I love you both. I am so grateful and blessed to have stumbled upon both of you over the last year, just as I started my astrology learning journey?

I love these topics. It’s also interesting to see that KZfaq is probably making a killing off this channel. 😂 Yes, Chris’s podcast has kept me so occupied that I’ve basically ignored nightlight for roughly a year. Diving further into astrology, there was a specific system I didn’t want to touch with a 12 foot pole, I’ve reached a point where I’m not only breaking the western variant down to use but also removing the zodiac signs (intentionally hyperbolic) finding it more descriptive. I had a wonderful misfortune of someone making calculation errors on my natal where astrology didn’t quite strike an interest until the early 2000’s, but even in a psychological perspective, the “deterministic” view was impossible to avoid. 12th house Leo sun in my natal is almost literal in how it manifested which immediately brought up the topic on if everything is predetermined for a personal purpose. Even then, related, the quality of wanting to study something on my own terms appears by placement which is why I’m so grateful for various channels, podcasts, and books. This topic has come up (personally) with transits through Aquarius, Chris had some episodes that took me back to the debate in physics on this same topic on various levels. Example: I’m with Penrose that collapse is likely from the physics of gravity, not a result of how positive or negative your thought process is. Aka, consciousness determining the outcome was simply an absurdist metaphor for an incomplete physics model. If a tree falls in a forest, it feel even if a conscious individual didn’t see it. Traditional adds more richness and depth, I actually wonder if many clients would seek out an astrologer to indirectly delineate the lot of exaltation. Does what a person enjoys going relate strongly with their goals or “destiny”? Chris’s deep dive into Aquarius brought up (for me) William S. Burroughs that made me rewatch a documentary about his personal life and broad influence, it also helped seal using terms/bounds because it’s extremely easy to identify how they were working in his natal in a static sense. Even his infamous drug use, rahu in pisces in mercury terms with mercury on his ascendant.. he had a Hunter S. Thomson approach to writing non fiction fictionally almost like a “martyr” being in a very piscean beatnik culture of psychedelics and even addictive pharmaceutical drugs (opioids). He heavily documented companies and doctors behaviors which foreshadowed the current opioid crisis. Eventually, everything leads to a philosophical viewpoint and I’ll say I did make a paraphrased note of Schopenhauer: “to understand a benefic, just observe an animal rejoicing in devouring its prey”. (This may get entertaining) Right now, I’m starting to break down zodiac signs. I’m focused on libra (they’re interesting). Seasons can be flipped, it’s just easier to use winter. Libra is the initiation of summer to fall, the start of a decline where resources become scarce so there’s this Saturn vibe, but delegating resources requires a Venusian approach in terms of fairness. Plus, if people resort to cannibalism, you don’t want on that list. It’s noticeable in the terms that the sign goes from constructive to destructive gradually. Saturn, constructive. Mercury, the more merchant side but also relates to different Merc significations. Jupiter, it starts its beginning of decline in some sense, may fall into the degrees that the sign is most known for. Sect would definitely need factored it, it could start destructive in an incline, not decline. Reversal of seasons is still similar, just reversed. Anyways, to me, there’s a pattens with more emphasis on planets where signs are a description of a formula. The further you go down that rabbit hole, it’s almost like free will gets debunked, yet, you know there’s a conscious person functioning in some way that is acting on will on some level. Sometimes a concept in astrology comes up where it’s described interestingly like in spear bearing; seems very linked to length of life techniques. A fun case in point: it appears South Park just ripped on one of the modern manifestations of libra placements. Yes, leaving a royal family to become social media influencers is likely a common libra manifestation and.. definitely look at South Parks birth chart. Even with that, it comes out with Saturn in aries in the shows ascendant (high quality animation?) with some 7th libra, like mars.. jupiter in the 11th, but also Venus in virgo. I have a lot in mercury terms and it rules my asc and mc, so I take no responsibility for the duration of this comment. I have a useful rule, if a person is into something and they start to dream about the topic.. back up a little, your mind is problem solving on its own and piling on more information isn’t exactly helping. I watched this instead after having a “rulership” dream. Chris is doing a great job over-saturating the market lately. 😁🙃

Love you both and appreciate this

Thank you.

It's so good to see the two people that helped me be a better astrologer together. Thank you, Adam and Chris!

Wooooooow excited 🥰🤗

Uuuuuh i remember the discussion between Chris and Austin on the topic 💥💯

As I’m listening to the final minutes of this episode, and I’m hearing you both really reiterate how subscribing to extreme narratives in polarities when it comes to astrology can be problematic. And moreso, hearing Chris especially, hone in on and consistently emphasize the greater need for a standard of “do no harm” with astrologers and clients. It brings me back to the ongoing reflections of formal education with all its overt rigors, limitations and costs vs. all the available (and muddled) information and educational materials (often skewed), yet affordable that is available with modern internet. And as I consider my own education, I recognize the extensive training, emphasis and accountability held for practitioners to not just “do no harm”, but how and in what variables of presentation, can a practitioner both recognize that a patient will likely or potentially go too far in interpretation and efforts with a recommendation and/or prescribed treatment protocol. A simple example, For instance: recognizing certain behavioral indicators of a patient before offer acupressure ear balls post acupuncture, because they have the potential to press and press an ear ball so rigorously that it drives the head into the skin creating a whole host of problems. And how, as a practitioner that still follows every precautionary measure and evaluative presentation, to be protected from subsequent litigation of people that didn’t take responsibility within their own limitations and misinterpretations. The point I’m trying to illustrate is in support of Chris’ point that astrologers can do harm if they aren’t working with clients in a balanced and informed manner. And that, for both better and worse, I anticipate a more formalized approach will likely be eventually called to task in working with others in a guidance manner. Because there is most definitely a stronger wave of astrologers that do harm with “dooms day-your child will die and your marriage will fail” or “it’s all good-just be happy and everything will work out” polarity predictions with people. As is what comes with the territory of astrology popularizing. As you both keep saying, “there has to be a balance”. And I would add, it might be found in the same kind of balance that will be developed between costly and regimented formal education vs. “I googled it and took a random, unaccredited workshop education”. That mediating of a new paradigm in astrology is something I can see and outline the details coming together.

This is so good✨❤️

I am so ready for this!

Sooo looking forward to this!

Great podcast. Thank you for sharing. Adam, when you were discussing the question of astrology as a personal instruction manual, and mentioned how constant access to astrology can leave one disappointed, it reminded me very much of people I have met in work with Sacred Plants. Some people become so obsessed with "the work" that their entire life (sometimes for years) revolves around a seemingly endless string of ceremonies, and focus on the Medicine. So much so that they never pause to integrate the gifts of the Medicine into their life until they fall apart from the constant reboots, and are forced to take a break. I'd imagine astrology can be the same way

i loved this topic! thank you both.

Great talk, thank you!

Great discussion! I really enjoyed it!

thank you to both

I am Definitely looking forward to this!!!

This was such a great video! Thanks guys :)

Great talk !!

You both play off each other extremely well.

I cannot wait to listen to this 🤯😁

Wow, this episode was so enlightening and confirming. Thank you both for your knowledge, perspectives and willingness to share. Blessings to you both. I am truly grateful!

Man. That was good. Really good! Thank you.

OMG can't wait

Is fate not a manifestation of the aspects in our birth chart, free Will is the choices we make in life when dealing with those challenges.

Great convo gentleman.

❤❤❤ ohhh wow! Two super stars ⭐️ together!! THANK YOU!

Wowwwwwww! What a treat

What I’ve learned so far from astrology and I’m love with it now I can’t get enough divine deep to my core being, that it feels to me whatever you do or experience or even just think of is accepted and understood, there’s answer and explanation, well that’s how I see it I’m sure my beliefs and ideas will change but from someone who grow up in extremely religious family, guilt runs in my blood for even having a thought that maybe there’s no hell or heaven well, astrology to me is liberating and exciting to explore. I appreciate this episode thank you Adam and his guest.

Two of my favorite informative and authentic teachers! I love this! Deep and profound. So grateful !

Thank you to both Adam & Chris! I’ve learned so much from you two over the last 6 years. Great topic & conversation. I hope you’ll do another episode together in the near future.

What a treat! Two very wise spirit guides and anointed teachers we get to enjoy together, awesome! Thank you for sharing your minds with us and thank you for your service to the ALL! We love you!

Very insightful and inspiring. I loved "not to negative and not too positive" take life events in moderation. Thank you ❤😊🌞

Thanks!

Great stuff! Man, what a treat! What a wonderful pleasure to get to enjoy casual wise, thoughtful musings between two of the giants of this beautiful thing called Astrology! I'm so happy to know enough about Astrology to be able to enjoy and benefit from something like this! Thank you and many blessings.

111 comments on the video when I tuned in. Great topic. I learn so much from both channels

I haven’t watched yet, but I will already say: What a power duo!

Thank you 🙏

Thank you

Loved this episode Two wonderful astrologers.

Both my teachers on one stream how exciting!

I like Chris voice

Wow, this is so much brain and soul food to chew on, thank you! When you all were making the clock metaphor I couldn't help but think on that for a bit. As in, the clock both simultaneously is a sign representing time and something that experiences it as well (whether it's the gears moving or rusting, or the batteries wearing out) and I can't help but wonder how this is for the planets too. It's like the archetypes are a thread moving through both us and them. Then I was reminded by looking at the news from around the time I was born, and kind of astonished because I was born two days before the Venus retrograde in October of 1994, and to my surprise the exact day she went retrograde we lost contact to the Magellan space probe in her atmosphere the day it started on October 12th, Mercury was also retrograde at this time fwiw. And a few days further it was confirmed that the probe crashed onto Venus. For me that just opened up doors of thought in wondering how the planets themselves might be experiencing archetypes in ways perhaps that we don't even see and that in divining we're picking up on something that the planets and us are simultaneously experiencing. Then there's the added factor of how the archetypes were moving through humans and acting on Venus, in a strange sense. Could the reverse then be true? I have no concrete answers of course but that door in my mind is definitely open and it's really fun to think about. So thanks again for just discussing this so well and eloquently! And simultaneously leaving room for openness and future discussion and imagination!

✅Legends🎧💯🎧😎✌🏾

Great combination

1:26:13 - when Chris mentions subreddits of people giving their life experiences with different astrological archetypes - can Chris share which subreddits he was referring to?? I wanna check them out!! Thank you Adam and Chris for doing this!! 🙏🏼

Many different moves to choose from yet the pieces mating in to one final integration in the end ;)

This is so cool. It's like watching spock and capt. Kirk talk on star trek.

@14:55 Yep, accepting this. Listened as I was reading about Chiron in the 10th house. Could my relationship with my father been any different...I don't think so. 🙏🏼

Wonderful🙏✨✨✨

Bring it.

Chris and you!!😄🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉yeah!!

Elements, Modality, Polarity

In Chinese metaphysics there's the cosmic trinity: heaven (time), earth (space) and man (consciousness). Heaven is the timeliness or luck of things (you can't control it and you can't change it) and astrology studies this. Earth is the environment and how the time manifests or flows (you can't influence it, but you can change it by moving to a different place) different schools of feng shui study this. Man is our "free will" our "pro-choice" part (we can influence and we can change it) medicine and self-development practices like meditation study this. In the west, we only have astrology so it's a debate of "either this or that", while in the east they clearly follow a different line of thought because that metaphysical practice has different subjects to study different things: astrology is just the quality of time, that quality is manifested in accordance with the environment and we choose what to do about it. It's like the rain (time) and you being in the Sahara or in the pacific northwest experiencing that rain (space) and then you choose if you want to stay home to not get wet or to build a water collector (consciousness). So, they kinda believe in partial determinism, but it's more complex. We could say that millions of people have the same chart as Beyonce. But, the timelessness of that birth or that quality of time manifested in different ways in accordance to the different environments where people lived and then people made they're own choices. So, there's only one Beyonce. Maybe people with that same chart had similar experiences at the same time, but they had completely different lives and contexts because of the other 2 components in addition to time (space and man). Some subjects in Chinese metaphysics study a 4th realm which is the spiritual realm (divine connection) divination practices like the yi jing study this by creating a communication channel with the divine. This also matches the 4 elements: fire (spiritual/divination), air (time/astrology), water (man/self-development), earth (space/feng shui). So, in the east, they believe that astrology just measures the quality of time or the luck or "timeliness" of things, nothing more, because the whole picture is more complex. Because of this philosophy, any Chinese metaphysics master (again, the vast majority aren't just astrologers, they study various subjects) will talk about the cosmic trinity and even say that "only 1/3 of things is pre-determined, another 1/3 is partially determined and another 1/3 is up to you".

This is a legendary collab

oh how coooool😄🌞🌈

Acccording to Google Translate the Arabic word for destiny and fate are the same. I looked it up cos Arabic is an ancient language and I'm learning it. There is no word for Karma. A woman in Britain recently got mauled to death by a pack of 8 dogs, she was a dog walker and they turned on her, we don't know why. Really enjoyed the talk and Chris's summing up on fatesold me. If they are honest, despite free will, I don't think anyone wants to believe their lives are completely random.

This was a wonderful discussion! In retrospect I am so grateful for that turn of millennium spiritual rebellion that upset the apple cart in favor of free will and determinism. Though that spirit was radically crushed when the Romans adopted it and stripped it down to a state religion (they literally had been killing their own salves and conquered for centuries who were empowered by it) the nerve or impression remained. That energy was a primary influence on the US constitution as it informed all the founders thinking to some degree or another.. The same nerve also informed the NE Native American tribes of 12 who helped influence the constitution via their own example which the founders were aware of and had lasted centuries ending warfare between the 12 tribes. Both constitutions were clearly delineated firsts of its sorts in known history exceeding even the Magna Carta; which was radical for its time. The carta helped make the US rebellion and constitution a concept worth pursuing leading to the constitution and bill of rights declaring inalienable fundamental human rights bestowed not by man, nor a king or a ruler (or government), but by God or perhaps fate. ♥️ And it turns out it was written in the stars. Both the Magna Carta and US Constitution set the stage to both later upset the apple cart further by making the worldwide, all known human history long practice of slavery intolerable. There is an astrologer whose name escapes me at the moment, whose book I am reading that really flows alongside this conversation taking that niche or perhaps guidelines/limits of fate and transforming it into destiny; through awareness of it and positive direction and action aka free will. I myself, within the limits of fate and ancestral generational trauma patterns and fated 'curse' of our line, through self development and free will transformed our generational line from one of alcoholism, drug addiction, child abuse and neglect, poverty, self destruction into one of blessing, love, healing, determination, discipline and discovery breaking generational patterns that has freed my son from my intial fate and that of his at least immediate forebearers. The outcome is in the objective results... My son is 22 and has never been molested, beaten, left hungry, or homeless. He had all of his basic needs met. He had his higher needs met and stimulated including empowerment, inspiration, support, and creativity mixed with stoic reserve for the things truly out of his control other than his perception of. He is the most grounded, thoughtful young adult I have ever known. Sadly many of my friends who later had kids, even when improving upon the parenting legacy they were given, they didn't quite make it to the finish line well enough to spare their kids from repeating the same toxic and chaos patterns. It has resulted in awful outcomes that their kids are having to live with... as a result of unconscious impulse driven choices they made, both the parents and the kids as teenagers and young adults. My generation of friends were mostly utterly neglected by their parents. This was across all class and racial lines. It encompassed many ethnic lines too, with the exception of my many friends who were from ancestrally or recently immigrated Mexican families. Their parents were very involved! However the kids I knew from a strongly bonded family had the same disastrous outcome ***if*** they chose the neighborhood ethnic gangs over their parents and families. All to say we were a pack of wild heyennas and out of control through to our mid twenties. Some even longer. And a third did not make it past their twenties and another quarter not past their forties. So here is to transforming your fate into the destiny you want by working within the parameters given but upsetting the apple cart through free will and self empowerment. 💙💙💙

A+++

🔥🔥🔥

Adam, i really think its better the other camara take you had. I dont know why, its just a feeling it created of being with you, like chilling with you. Isntead of being "lectured". Which is funny, becouse i love your lectures. Maybe i just prefere that feeling of being lectured in a not so frontal way. Its a very very personal opinion. But theres is something in the other camara take, which i love very much and i guess i can not explain why. Best whishes, D.

❤❤❤

In future, time stamps would be helpful for the different segments covered

💜💛

M job

I had to Google what stoicism was when you guys were talking about fate and destiny. I Had always ever heard stoic used in reference before.. But thought Wikipedia did had a great explanation as well! Sooo…I had to share. Lol sto·i·cism /ˈstōəˌsizəm/ 1. the endurance of pain or hardship without the display of feelings and without complaint. Similar: 2. an ancient Greek school of philosophy founded at Athens by Zeno of Citium. The school taught that virtue, the highest good, is based on knowledge; the wise live in harmony with the divine Reason (also identified with Fate and Providence) that governs nature, and are indifferent to the vicissitudes of fortune and to pleasure and pain.

💜💜