I personally think before you settle on the heat, try disc mania essence, neo and especially the zen Nate Perkins signature essence. 8/6/-2/1

i got an Axiom Rhythm (7,5,-2,1) in a player pack this summer and absolutely loved it! out of the box it is very stable but as it broke in, it quickly became my favorite disc for backhand turnovers and hyzer flips. i highly recommend

Love the Heat! I bag a Cryztal Flx one personally. Definitely would recommend. The Cryztal Flx plastic is probably my favorite discraft plastic in terms of how it feels in the hand.

I love my Opto River. I made that triple mando at Winthrop with it. Went to Charlotte last January to get away from Minnesota but had to make the 45 minute drive to go play the USDGC course.

I LOVE the heat. It is such a money fairway! Super good for glidy slow turn hyzers. My favorite part about the heat is the lump, or "micro bead" it has on the bottom near the inner rim. It makes it feel really nice in the hand.

Totally agree with your thoughts in this vid! I use my ESP Heat exclusively for rollers or crazy hyzer flips, but I’ve never tried any Crystal varieties.

I found a pink Z money-stamped Heat with no ink on it in my local course, it's been in my bag since I couldn't find an owner. love it, replaced my Axiom Virus

As a lower arm speed player I love the heat, been bagging the cryztal one from 2021 which provides a nice bit of fade at the end. The esp ones are great for hyzer flips and big turnovers even for us noodle arms.

The Heat is a great disc. But after a year I finally found a replacement for my River slot -- the Axiom Crave. Essentially, a River that doesn't turn and burn. Both Plasma and Fission have the straightness I need for woods and can take the torque of a full forehand.

Esp heat is amazing for forehand hyzer shots in the woods when you’re up against something and can’t throw backhand but have to get around a corner. The disc will keep floating on that hyzer line around the corners without dumping. Definitely a good utility disc.

I've thrown several Heats over the years and still bag 2 in my Grip bags. I'd like to recommend that you throw the disc flat and hard and it should go dead straight. Z FLX for less stable shots and Metallic Z or Cryztal Sparkle for straight shots. You could possibly make a part II using this feedback . Great video, keep'em coming.

Innova Roadrunner is my choice for that slot. Or a flat top Gstar Leopard (changed my life in the woods) if I want to throw it softer and still flip. TSA Mantra is great too but was flippy for me.

I bag both an ESP Heat and a Z Line Heat. Love them both. If you like the Heat, consider also checking out the TSA Mantra in Aura plastic. Pretty similar numbers with slightly less turn. I feel like that one more closely resembles a River.

I love my Opto River. It's dead straight for me when thrown flat. Of course, a good drive for me is 275-280 feet, So I am not getting the torque into the disc like longer throwers do.

Your videos are great! What kind of camera do you use? The discs are really easy to see when you throw them. Great stuff!!

IMO lots of people call Rivers flippier than a -1 because they're throwing them at like 11 speed lol. The turn rating assumes you're throwing them at rated speed! It's a 7, of course it will flip if you throw it 60mph! I also thought it was weird you threw both River and Heat at such high hyzers, they're definitely designed to be thrown flat to maximize the glide, and they're both extremely stable and will just fly like lazer beams unless you put way too much speed on them (in which case just throw with a tiny hyzer angle so they flip up). Very easy to get 375ft out of River without going more than 6 feet off the ground, in a straight line. Also opto River is not dome-y at all, super flat (for 7 glide), super grippy. (opto River is my favorite disc of maybe 70 or so molds I've owned, and I always bag TWO of them in case I lose one)

z heats will fly similar to the other premium plastics, but most esp heats require a dial back in power and varied amounts of heavy hyzer to get the line you want. i would recommend a sting as another great flippy fairway, i use in esp for touchy woods shots

So now every time you throw a roller I feel obliged to comment! Loving that you're getting after it

I remember that old Heat you used to bag. That one bombed in Utah 💪

Try the Latitude 64 Maul! Mold is based of the River just a little more understable 7/7/-2/1

Discraft Crank is a pretty great forehand disc. Just picked up a Roach, Scorch, and Anax which I'll be trying tomorrow. Show Discraft some love.

Heat is became my favorite disc for farther woods shots that my Mako3 can't reach, that's the main 2 I used to pull my best round ever with (ace included) and the heat I used was a used disc I just got right before that round it's big Z plastic that is slightly more stable than my z plastic heat.

One of the many things I love about the Heat is the variance of flight between plastics. My 22 Ledgestone Cryztal Sparkle Heat is laser straight and noticeably more torque resistant. 9/5.5/-1/1 My new Z glo FLX is the perfect Heat. 9/6/-2/1 Swirly ESP Heats are glide kings but can sometimes be pretty flippy. Which I love! 9/7/-3.5/1

MY MAN! favorite disc of all time

I know I'm a week late here but I have a friend who considers the River a midrange - not a driver - because for him it's great for touchy short-to-mid range shots, and it gets around corners and skips well. So it's very useful for him more for approaches and modest power throws.

I totally understand what you meant with that "flip-point", had the same issues with that, I love throwing glidey hyzerflips, but it's quite difficult to commit with discs that are too flippy. The K1 Falk used to be my favorite for this shot, but when this disc is gone, it's gone. You have to be very disciplined throwing it. I beat up a champion Leopard3 to a point where it is perfect. Look up Drew Gibsons shot at Northwood Black Ledgestone hole 10 last year. When Leopard3s are seasoned like this, your throws can become works of art. (When they're brand new, they are actually quite/too neutral). The Essence lies somewhere in between, feels perfectly flippy from the start, and the rim is great.

I used to bag the ESP Heat (until I lost it comparing it to the Neutron Impulse, which flies exactly the same), it's a nice disc although even on a baby hyzer angle (15°), it would turn and burn (unless it had enough height). If you throw it on ~75° hyzer and enough power it can go decently far on a full flight (massive turn, then a fairly reliable fade).

*"tooling" under the rim? Do you mean the disc name, company, made in, embossed, with brail-like dots? I like that. When you grab the disc in those spots, they give you a place with more grip - less likely to slip out of your hand early. Although Discraft are a roll of the die when it comes to true to numbers, this is one feature that I really like about Discraft, and wish others would do it too.

Discmania Genius is very similar to the Heat for me, love em both, and I'm sure you're hip to the Diamond

I had to go check my retro river when you remarked about the dome of your river. My retro is super flat. I compared it to my DOMiest disc which is an Astronaut. You could live under the Astronaut like a biosphere. It is has insane dome. But, I digress. Retro River is super flat but a great straight shooter.

I bag both the River and the Heat. Both excellent for lower power arms. Prob even good for longer arms, with the right touch. I find the River super easy to turn over when I power it up. The Heat, for me, stays straighter, longer. I mean, it turns, but it's has enough stability to come back with fade. Same power on the River results in a long turnover shot. Def handy in certain situations. I gotta power the River down significantly to get that long straight line. Might just be the runs I have of each, but the River flies more like what the numbers claim on the Heat, and vice versa. Gotta get my River on a lot of Hyzer to flip up and glide straight. My Heat can be thrown flat and get the same result. Still love em both. Fun fact...today I hit a tree, full power, with the River, about 30' down the fairway. I thought it was gonna be gashes to hell. Had tree sap splattered all over it, but not even the slightest gash. Just very light rash on the rim. Opto plastic is freakin tits! I'm putting it up there with Neutron, and Z in terms of durability.

I think the River as more of a control driver - it plays really nice with dedicated lines but its not necessarily a disc that you would say hyzer flip to pan like a Virus as an example. River is one of those on a rope type discs - heat can be a bit more unpredictable.

I think we tend to choose the same discs I swear you reviewed almost everything in my bag now

I liked my ESP Heat when i started back up playing this year after a 5 year hiatus, but as I got arm speed up it turned over to much with torque for me. Still good for the wood courses I play but thinking a different plastic would make it better option for me. I also have a river I love to throw as it just glides with little effort but lacks fade for me vs the heat.

This convinces me, the two ESP Heats I bought to try out a while back were a weirdly stable run (maybe why they were on sale?). They flew like they were 9 5 0 2 😅🤣 (and no, it isn't my arm speed as I have other "less flippy" 9 speeds that fly quite understable for me).

I’ve been bagging a Mantis for flippy fairway and I absolutely love it. Would definitely like to see you throw one

I love my River, currently bag two of them, one a little older than the other. But my arm speed is slow enough I usually don't turn it over

Have you tried the RPM Pekapeka? My atomic one is slightly more stable than the numbers suggest but it's got a comfortable rim and lots of glide.

Another good comparison is the Legacy Discs Mongoose, same numbers as the heat with a similar hand feel, but without the tooling. In the icon plastic should compare pretty well to the ESP Heat, I have never thrown the pinnacle but it should be a touch more stable and should be comparable to the crystal one.

Have you checked out the TSA Mantra? It's a hair deeper and flatter than my heat but I think similar super glidey flight with (for my arm speed at least) controllable turn.

How about a learning to throw rollers video? I could use tips.

The Passion is what I throw in place of the River. You should give it a review

the River is not a 7glide. it's actually an 8speed disc with 4 glide. It has one of the poorest distances in it's speed category, and calling it a 7speed with more glide sells more discs. 8speed=18mm rim width (or 1.8cm if you prefer)

Get yourself a Lat64 Fury or Saint. KInda similar, but Saint comes back a little bit faster. Fury flipped to about 15 degrees anhyzer till hold it pretty much forever.

Man you should still have that ESP for rollers and you should really learn it more. I have ESP Heat as well and a really good Roller as you said

You can always try the Innova Sidewinder or Infinite Sphinx, both 9 speed with same turn & fade as the Discraft Heat. I know that Uli throws the Heat, it's one of his go-to hyzer flip & roller discs. He's said so in his vlogmas earlier this month 😀

I bag the heat and the River. I use the heat for hyzer flip shots and wanting bigger distance. I use the River for shots I need turn. The river when thrown flat doesn’t turn into a roller for me. For a 9 speed that flys like the river I like the Saint. I can throw it flat get turn, but it doesn’t turn into a roller

Some options: Kastaplast Falk, L64 Saint, Discmania Essence, Discraft Avenger SS, Axiom Virus, Prodigy H4v2, Westside's Stag, Westside's Underworld. Not all these fly the same. Heat, Avenger SS, Underword, Avenger SS, Essence are quite similar. Virus is probably next in stability and then the rest. Rivers that I have thrown many years ago were more stable than any of the ones on my list. And there are so many newer manufacturers that have similar discs so you probably have easily 20-30 discs to choose from. And pop-top is not a moderate dome like Rive or Grace. Grace is a stiff domey disc that makes a loud pop noise when you press the top down near the rim (from opposite sides). It's like a heart beat when you do that. if it is not stiff, it doesn't pop and if it isn't domey, it doesn't pop properly.

I love my DX thunderbirds for hyzer turnovers. Domey champion sidewinder for flip to flat and swirly rim Proton insanity flip little turn and come back. Big z vulture for throwing hard flat little turn stable finish.

Try axiom insanity. Super flat, little more stable than heat. Perfect for stable to understable backhand and the flatness/perfect depth is perfect for that stand still fh.

U should try out discraft’s Avenger SS … I have a glow plastic one and it flies exactly like my river but about 30 - 40 ft longer (it’s a 10 speed) it’s basically a 10 speed Heat

Get yourself a Lat 64 Opto X Glimmer Fury to try. For me it flies like a beat in River that's started going to the gym.

Try the Kastaplast Falk. Like heat but goes for miles. It’s 9 speed too and amazing disc

I have one of those Ledgestone Heats. Your not burning that one over on a normal controlled hyzer flip. The ESP reflects the flight numbers pretty accurately. The Z Heat is between the Crystal and the ESP as far as stability.

I like the Swirly ESP Heat up at 5000+ elevation

Discraft z stalker is this slot for me. Very underated disc recommend you give a try/ review

I think you give the mint disc freetail in eternal plastic a try for a flippy/roller disc

I love my Buzz it's super reliable I'm still getting to know my heat but I think we're going to be friends. Both of mine are Zs which I actually really like.

Definitely try out the Axiom Rhythm for a flippy fairway in the 7 slot

I prefer the Fission Crave. You should try a Fission Crave 6.5 5 -1 1 against the River. It will surprise you with the distance.

Stag for me, love the River tho, it's just the Stag is more controllable/not quite as flippy

I'm a BIG fan of the old school opto River (reaper stamp) because they tend to have way less dome than their modern counterparts. 172g is the sweet spot and they are money in the woods.

For me the heat throws like a 9/6/0/0.5 and what ever Lon I put it on it sticks to perfectly

If you like flat drivers check out more of mvp’s lineup. imo mvp defining characteristic is that every disc is board flat regardless of mold.

"Oh wow that's terrible" is something I say so many times during my rounds

Have you tried the Saint, and if so what are your thoughts on it? I was thinking about getting one for my friend for Christmas.

Should put the new axiom rhythym up against that slot next

I think the thought space mantra OR the mvp impulse could possibly fill this slot for you

Ooh an Essence would be a good comparison

Try out the Neutron Inertia for a flippy fairway driver.

Ppl gonna hate but a Barsby Roadrunner is THE disc for that slot.

What happens when you try to replace river? Well you suddenly notice having three extra discs in your bag. In my case underworld in vipX, stag in tournament and stag in vip plastic😄 And very much variables at your house.

Can you review the vulture from discraft?

Yo! Since you are back in CFL are you gonna play DeBary? I wanna snag a mini

need to try a z heat. its in the middle of those two.

I like discraft but I didn't get along with the heat! I like the essence in that slot

You should review the discmania md3. It's my go to mid.

Why not compare the sidewinder?

L64 MAUL is much better than the River at Hyzer flips. Heat replaced my Roadrunner because it flies further and is more predictable. My Gateway Hyper Diamond Hemp Spear is my favorite 9 speed hyzer flip BH disc.

Leopard 3 is awesome

Turkey lake is amazing in orlando

Witch bag did you use🙈

I find that new ESP plastic is too firm and slick compared to older ones. Crystal Z and Crystal FLX are best Discraft ever made but can be hard to find in sertain discs. In the woods Heat is amazing disc, you can shape your line as you like with it.

Essence is great or a Gateway HD Spear

8:42. Are we sure that isn't an alien instead? Might have got attracted to the flying ufo.

I've been golfing 22 years. Here's my story about 9 speeds vs. 7speed. I noticed while I was at the DGPT in Iowa. That my bag jumped from 7speed to basically 12. So I was figured I would try a bunch of different 9 speeds. Well after trying about 10 different 9 speeds. I noticed that 9 speed discs and 7 speed discs are aerodynamically too similar. So when you go to 10 speed. You actually gain some distance. I ended up with a PFN Orc. I also now bag a PD. I personally think the 10 speed disc is the best all around driver. Go to 11. Too Skippy. Go to 9 it doesn't get there. I hope this helps you on your disc golf endeavors! Maybe you should do a review about 10 sp vs. 9 sp. Keep up the great vids

MVP Relay you should try

Still want to see you. Throw a passion man like passions or dope. I really want to see how you what you think of the way that the wing is designed

Cmon chuck !!!

What do you mean 'Finally a good discraft disc'? The sting is one of the best discs ever. So difficult to get hold of now.

Try essence best disc

Infinite discs halo S blend Centurion. Trust me on this one

Gold Rivers are pretty flat relative to their Opto counterparts.

Good putts :)

Slow down....you talk so fast you give me anxiety! Hahaha! Awesome reviews!

Can we donate thru KZfaq and get you to do bag or bin?

Last hole, it appears your side arm is nose up. Forearm may be slightly rotated to the sky, similar to the forearm position for an "ultra star" Huck.

Avenger SS better than HEAT.

Dude. Falk.

Axiom Insanity