I will say that minesweeper has a *lot* fewer pegs to refresh so it wouldn't have been as bad there.

The leaf didn't make the build that good in my opinion, it was just carried by an already very good build that got way less good after adding the leaf

@@Nicolas-gt9qf Tyler nerfed himself with leaf to not only show that it could be good but to also show that in its current state it is really bad

@@CaTastrophy427 No, that makes it even worse. With leaf you have a reserve of pegs that will gradual run out. it will stabilize at some point, but having less pegs (but more importantly, more spread out pegs) is much much much worse for leaf.

If you refer to my comment where I used Leaf to win, if I recall, I was up against the Qaballistic Ruins in that playthrough. (Crucially 14?) To be honest, I have no idea how such a janky build managed to win.

yeah this, I think that maybe the numbers just need to be tweaked so it refreshes a few more pegs, maybe it could refresh a set portion instead of a static number, so regular refreshes refresh 100% whereas Tea leaf may refresh only 10%

Tyler does a poor job with the leaf, to be honest. I mean, this is the third time he took it, and every time he only had at most 2 other refresh synergies. That's like taking the relic that doesn't allow you to gain any gold after beating the first boss, while you still don't have a decent deck.

@@Schilani Maybe so, but it feels like it should is really cool design that people want to use locked behind having more then 2 synergies already. At least with the no gold one, you are locking yourself into what you already have, you make an informed decision based on something that you had a lot more opportunity fix before that, you get offered orbs after every fight. But with the leaf, you need other relics, and you can only get so many, and only a few of them have good refresh synergies. Overall, even if it works sometimes, it still feels slow. Like a lot of the boss relics, it just feels really niche. This becomes a problem when you can frequently get offered boss relics that just all kill you if you take them. Its so disappointing have to skip your first boss drop because they would all kill you if you take them. I had like 3-4 games in a row of that on cruciball 9-10

@@travischaikin1626 funny thing, I think the Peglin boss relics are still too forgiving. But that might just be, because I played a lot of roguelikes with boss relics that are truly make or break, like slay the spire. In Peglin most boss relics work for most builds. It doesn't really matter which build you have going on, you can always take meteorite, gift, magnet. Most builds allow the matryoshka shell. You can often take molten mantle with the second boss... you get what I mean.

@@Schilani There's a big difference in that taking Molten Mantle early makes your run boring, but it's still strong enough that you'll likely win regardless. Leaf is underwhelming even when you already have a build where it theoretically should be good.

This is really what it should be. Refreshes only refresh 10% of the orbs, but get 10 more Refreshes.

Exactly, a lot of your power in act 3 simply comes from the sheer quantity of pegs in the stages, which means act 3 itself is anti-synergy with the leaf

With the right builds, that would be beyond op, but then again, every other build dies to leaf

@@Brokenlordike max 7% or 7 refreshes (or both) - synergy with the crits also refresh + additional refreshes + refresh orb would be way too op otherwise, unless it scales down with cruciball level

@@glebglub no, I think having it be inversely proportional to the pegs is better. More refreshes = less pegs refreshed, but still hitting every single one is equivalent to a full refresh.

or defresh potion

Morbidorb might be good also Imagine that in the boss fight!

Idk I still lost to minesweeper bc I basically ran out of pegs with the leaf, I think there are builds that can carry it, it's definitely not boss relic worthy

A fun run I had with the leaf was leaf duplication potion reorbanizer and strange brew

they should buff the leaf from 4 refreshed pegs to 5, would help a bit with the "too low amount of pegs to hit" situation!@@SinisteaSado

It's unbeleafable

I cant beleaf you’ve done this

Now what?

​​@@walterhartwellwhite2988It's unbeleafable that you forgot a leaf pun, im leavesing

I knew Floran were popular but this is ridiculous!

What do the first two do - and I think the boss relic could be buffed to refresh 5/6 pegs at a time at least

it'd be interesting if you could start with a boss relic to build around, maybe with a penalty to compensate? Starting with a boss relic instead of a regular relic and an additional terriball might not be a bad idea

@@insertnamehere4775 Defresh potion makes orbs reactivate deactivated pegs like morbidorb at the cost of removing 1 refresh if that makes sense Bag of orange pegs multiplies your damage based on how many pegs are deactivated

So the only build where leaf is good is also a build where it's stronger the fewer pegs are active. Kinda funny, cause that means if they ever buff the leaf (say by having it refresh 4% to 10% of pegs instead of a flat 4 pegs), then it'd just get worse with this particular build

​@@awesomegamer-cv4zfslay the spire has a mechanic like this, where you can exchange your character's starting relic for a random boss relic

I had this with reorbinizer and the relic that detonates pegs around refreshes. ended up doing like 100k a shot or some shit. it was bloody insane.

Um, that's because refilibuster is better without. Without leaf, it's basically a delayed +1/+1. With leaf, it's negligible damage sometimes.

But consider, that's exactly how it works without Leaf. Just slower, and kind of worse. Refilibuster+Leaf: if 4 used pegs, deal 4 damage. Refilibuster w/o Leaf: deal damage equal to used pegs. There's no situation where Leaf makes it better, except that there's more refreshes so you're doing less damage more often. But never more than you would without Leaf

Wouldn’t work. Necorbmancer can’t hit Refreshes. That’s a strict downgrade, especially if you opt for self-damage.

@@greatsageclok-roo9013 necorbmancer can hit empty pegs, though

@@tsquitz That's all it can hit, though... Aside from Bombs. And people who use it will tell you that it is actually not really good at doing that job.

I’ve done this in a run, and that makes the leaf overpowered. When I saw him do this video that’s the synergy I expected him to come up with, but the one he did was significantly worse.

its one of those relics I'll never take, alongside such traps as the chip, and the cursed mask.

hey at least it doesn't singlehandedly kill you like the wand of skulltimate power does

69th like

i think it should refresh more pegs per extra refresh you have (like from the refresh bag or the other one(s))

Probably 6, actually, because 5 doesn't seem like enough at the moment.

If you're good you can get it pretty consistently with just the AoE bomb relic (enhanced gunpowder IIRC)

The issue is, every final boss but the dragon has scaling damage so you’d eventually get to the point where you’re just one shot

Hard to heal when you have 0 pegs left on the board

@@MrTVx99 But you will always have the Refresh Pegs. So unless you use Ohmygorb! that won’t happen.

I have a large playlist on dicey dungeons already.

I had refreshing punch (the relic you're talking about) along with leaf, cookie and orange pegs and overwhamer in one run. My first shot on the board one shotted all enemies on the field but subsequent shots were lackluster. I think the relic should be buffed.

If you need five relics to keep the leaf from being a net negative, the leaf isn't good.

​@@thermophile1695 Exactly. If you need some of the best relics in the game to be good, face it hon, it's not good.

You might want to look up what pegging means

​@@thelizard7609we've watched enough of tyler pegging to know what pegging means don't worry

@@thelizard7609we all know what pegging means man

@@thelizard7609 I think everyone who makes a "pegging" joke in the comments understands what's going on. Trust us.

@@thelizard7609 Wooooosh