Here we go - Pre Ceramic Wars of the Submariners.

As a 14060 owner myself, I could not agree more with your point of view. After you own a 14060, it's almost like a curse, because its beauty, perfect symmetry and wearability outshines all modern watches. It is the "platonic ideal" of what a wrist watch should be.

Safe to say that preceramic subs are your signature in my view! I associate the look with you. It suits you perfectly: It has a classy vintage vibe to it but it is still a solid modern piece. I find it strange that the LBQTGAI+ division within the watch community keep talking about bracelet quality and rattle.. These bracelets will obviously outlive you if you handle the watches normally. Great video! Meat.

I've had a date complication on the majority of watches I've owned in the past fifty years. These days I sport the pre-ceramic 14060m no-date and never think twice about not having a date, but then again I'm retired and rarely need to know. That doesn't mean I don't find the Sub-date fetching. Thanks for the video, well done.

Dear Michael, first of all thanks a lot for your superb content. I changed almost one year ago my ceramic Sub (114060) to a pre-ceramic SD (16600T). I think the SD offers all I have missed on my no date sub. It’s really a master piece of the good old Rolex tool watch era.

Nice review of two icons!!! Everyone needs a date… one more reason to stop looking at our phones!👍

Love your videos and journey over the years. Recently I've picked up an Exp 1 114270 and had a similar epiphany after trying it on. Where I thought the modern revisitation to the 36mm Exp 1 felt all wrong in proportions (due to smaller lug width, more taper, yet bulkier clasp), the 114270 had it all correct and is the best version of the explorer 1. I've also come to appreciate the comfort (and jangle) of the older version's bracelet. I might take your advice on not trying the 14060m, however. If it's like my Exp 1 experience it might prompt a big sell off of my collection.

I haven't had an aluminum one on the wrist yet, but I am now awakening to see it as more harmonious. As of now, I don't understand the aversion to the ceramic bezel. Anti scratch is a huge plus. The shine I suppose is the issue. Perhaps they could mute the finish of the ceramic?

Over the last few months I have tried on modern ceramic Submariners (no date) in a number of ADs but after much research, reading reviews and KZfaq vids I have purchased a pre-ceramic Rolex Submariner 14060m 4 liner. Found a good condition unpolished Submariner locally and when it was on my wrist I couldn’t leave without it. Sometimes I wear it on an Omega nato black strap with white border and also an Artem NTTD nato too. Both look amazing. Prefer it to the Sub date. Switch between this and my JLC Deepsea Chronograph. Thanks for all the videos….

Glad you’re back big Mike. I know exactly what you mean about getting busy and not worrying about watches because it just happened to me this past week. I threw my Speedy back on the bracelet and just wore it without thinking about strap changes every week and couldn’t be happier. Love the pre-ceramic sub, it definitely suits you.

They nailed this movie. Awesome. Good review.

Hi Mike I was waiting for your new video finally 😊, it’s been awhile

Nice vid, I’ve got a 11610 and it was the sub i longed for and IMHO the classiest version. Don’t hate me for it, but i managed to source a 2020 glide lock bracelet for it and now keep that on it, its changed the watch for me and the OG bracelet is enjoying the safe and avoiding my desk diving. If you find someone with a glidelock (the 20mm version) pop it on and give it a go its fun!

Keep Sub, sell the Sub-Date, and get a 16710 GMT II - Sub for the weekends and GMT for the week. Plus, with the old 16710, you can create 6 different looks with the oyster, jubilee, and 3 bezel inserts

I'm considering getting a 116600 ceramic Sea-Dweller, and a two line 14060m pre-ceramic Submariner. I'm not a fan of the cyclops, and I love the engineering of the SD4K. As tool watch, I think the SD4K is perfect. But I'm also a fan of the classic look of the two line 14060m. I also love the fact that it's a 12 hour watch. If you need to set the watch, you don't need to worry about the date, and you don't need to worry about the date turnover. You just set the watch up to 6 hours either way and you're done. It's great for the occasional use, next to your daily diver. I might even put it on a NATO strap.

I could not agree more: the 14060M makes the newer Submariners look clunky and shiny. It's just a great model. My father used to wear an IWC Portuguese for years, but bought a 14060M in 2008 in Singapore where I was living at the time. It's hardly left his wrist since then. It's a phenomenal all rounder that's extremely comfortable on the wrist. If I were you, I'd keep it over the 16610, great watch as it might be. The proportions and comfort of the 14060M are superior in my eyes.

Keep the No date it’s just a complete iconic and true Rolex watch. I don’t think you need a date you know when it’s your birthday 😂

Great channel and love your honest reviews + thoughts. Would love to see your take on Pepsi.

Enjoy your video and how you seen things based on hands on experience, I'm going thru something similar with two recent ceramic version submariner, 124060 and 126610LV lasted version no date and Starbucks. I'm leaning on no date sub but dammit the Starbucks is gosh gorgeous.

What a refreshing surprise, Michael nice to see you back . I admire your views on watches and good luck with your decision in a few weeks.

I totally agree with this sentiment. Rolex went clear the other way far away to what made them great in my opinion. Despite the better bracelet it does not fit as well or as comfortable.

Great to see your journey unfolding, and I agree with 100%. The no-date is aesthetically perfect and it is the archetype of a dive watch. My 14060M is my weekend and vacation watch full stop, because I don’t need to know the date in those circumstances. But I wear a date watches during the week because I constantly need to sign and date documents and it’s just so inconvenient to have to check my mobile phone! Maybe keep the no date for weekends and vacation days? Thanks for the video.

Keep the 14060M and get yourself a 16610LV Kermit if you want a pre-ceramic Sub Date. No overlap.

Hey Michael, I love your musings. I love my Subs too, My journey is all modern Subs. I started with 114060 in 2017 after wearing a Tag Heuer for 22 years. I then bought and sold a Hulk, then owned a 126610LN, I sold that and now own a 126610LV, which I think is my forever watch, but unfortunately I'm never happy and always looking for the next watch. Keep up the good work!

What about the SD4K? Where it stands ?

Still one for sale and how much ?

I have the bb 54 as my only watch. It’s the reincarnation of what the sub was originally meant to be

Thoughts on the black bay 54? Not a bad pick for a modern sub with the 5 digit feel

I kinda wish they made a submariner date, but without the cyclops....

My pick is the 16610. It’s to this day the best looking modern submariner reference in my opinion, especially with a maxi dial. I’ve seen nut jobs turn their Kermit black to preserve the original insert, and TBH it looks epic

I do still believe the SD4K is the best of both worlds ( Pre- ceramic and post) but still nice lugs - ceramic

Thanks for sharing Michael! Would you consider getting back the SD 16600 and homogenizing the sub date and no date into that SD? Or did you want to have a different/slimmer experience by going submariner while you still have your SD4k?

Try a Davosa Temos Professional. It has domed shaffire crystal date-no cyclops and side case and pressure relief valve,great bracelet and price point. Real comfort and most reliable accuracy remains way back with your quartz pieces with the same features date,no-date, cyclops or not. Lightweight and bracelet jingle included. Easy on, easy off and unbeatable economics. Best buy for those who don't wear a wet suit to work!

Have you ever compared an Everest band next to a RubberB? Do they differ somehow?

Hi Michael, I've seen a few of your videos and have enjoyed your honest content. I decided to subscribe today and look forward to future content. After years, I finally bought the 14060M about 2 weeks ago and it hasn't left my wrist. I'm feeling a bit guilty for not rotating my watches as you mentioned but I'm content with the Submariner for now. Have a great day! John

A sub with a date is like a sportscar with a backseat. Just doesn’t make sense to me imho. Also love just seeing the time and be liberated drom knowing the date and how fast my life goes by :-)

I agree But the seadweller 2008 is the king One and down Michael ?

I’ve got to echo everything you say in this video about the 14060. The best sub of all time in terms of aesthetics and comfort, it just oozes class. One thing I will say is that another iconic watch amongst “watch aficionados” is the 5 digit era Explorer 1 (14270 and 114270). It also has bags of charm and would be equally if not slightly more comfortable than any other Rolex full stop. Have you ever tried one, if so I’d be interested in your thoughts.

Tricep game is strong. 🔥

My honest advice to you in order to make these preceramics really fantastic is please try to buy a the bracelet of 116610 LN and put it on the 16610. The watch will be extremely flawless (beautiful slim case and substantial adjustable bracelet). I have done that myself and it is amazing. I only wear this watch ever since (Having several other Rolexes). I bought this bracelet brand new from the AD here in Abu Dhabi but you need to have 116610 for them to sell you the bracelet. They won’t install it by the way on the preceramic because of their policies at Rolex. I replaced it at a good watchmaker.

Honestly Michael, I think you should keep both. Let the Bluesy go. Seems like that’s the watch that you trust the least. I have a sub no date 114060 and love it, and am tempted to pick up a sub date from the preceramic era.

Damn this made me need to try on the rolex 14060m. This is the goal now

Wait until you try the Tudor BB54. It will blow you away!

So you need a Kermit, mate😉 Best of the lot. Or maybe equal with 2 liner.

Great review. Thanks so much. I personally prefer no date. To me sub with date looks funny.

Keep the 14060 for the weekends and wear the SD when you need a date?

My friend I thought we solved the Rolex Diver crisis with the SD 4K… what went wrong??😢

I didnt know that pre ceramics no dates didnt exist with solid endlink, why?

Good Video, Sounds to me like you are trying to talk yourself into the sub date. You already repurchased the No date twice, if you get rid of it again I feel you will regret it and end up purchasing it again. My vote is keep the No Date, best wishes keep up the videos.

Michael, what about the SD 16600 vs the Sub 14060. You don't have the cyclops on the SD but still the date? is the 16600 not the grale watch for you? Cheers

yessir!

I think Sub Dates outnumber no date Subs probably 8:1. My vote is for you to keep the 14060M and just get a wall calendar, lol!

Hard keeping up with your wristwatch gymnastics lol.. so why aren’t you wearing the bluesy now?

I prefer the pre ceramic subbies.The newer super cases are way too big.

LOL! You are not getting rid of the M after all that talk. Keep both, or better yet, give one to a deserving relative that appreciates timepieces like us. You and him/her will never forget it. After all, we never really own (I have the sub 41mm) them anyway, we are curators for the next generation, ya?

I keep saying the same but nobody believes me. Rolex best engineering ergonomics designs were at the pre-ceramic era. Date or no date you can’t go wrong.

Brother, where does the 16600 sit among these? I would keep the no-date as it is more refined and evocative of the original submariner. Wear your SD for the date!

I always enjoy your vids. They’re more ‘real life’ than the usual on YT. Refreshing. I’m wondering - is the 16600 out of your collection? If not, it would be interesting if that were part of the pre-ceramic comparison too.

I've watched many many videos on pre-ceramic subs (admittedly my grail) and I honestly think the 16800 is the best looking in my opinion. However the purest in me does agree the 14060m is the ultimate pre-ceramic sub, I'm considering trading my 16600 for the 14060m, any advice would be appreciated please because I'm struggling with the fact I've had the 16600 for almost 20 yrs so sentiment is holding me back... I would go for a 16800 but I know I wont be happy with such an old watch, and most likely not a complete set so here I go again... 14060m for life !?

Same with me... i bought 14060m 2008 and i sell my14060m to buy 16610 2019, But 14060m much2 better then 16610,the most comfy rolex watch ever in my opinion, luckly i can buy back my 14060m again 😊 14060m will forever in my collection, 16610 might go

Just another thing, the other night I was watching a movie called Couples Retreat. Jason Bateman wears a Submariner pre ceramic in that movie and it shines like a beacon. Easily the greatest watch ever made. Nothing like a Pre ceramic Sub. 20mm lugs, no AR coating. No clasp like a small car. Just utter perfection and the knurling of the bezel is what makes the watch. That's what you are seeing when it "catches the light."

The subdate's crystal has less reflection. the 14060 is like a mirror...unusable in some lighting.

Great video Michael! I’ve been through your dilemma. But I “settled” on the 14060M. I love the ability to know the date from your watch without having to check your phone, however, I’m not a fan of the cyclops. I don’t like the way it stands out in the crowd from a mile away. The 14060M blends in the crowd a lot more, much more subtle and simple. And like you said, it’s a purists watch. Which is why I considered the pre ceramic SD (date with no cyclops). I feel the cyclops is for people who want to tell the world he’s wearing a Rolex. So for me the difference came down to my personality rather than practicality. 14060M all the way! And it looks great on a black Zealande strap. Keep it up. Can’t wait to see what you decide!

Any opinions on the bb54 ?

Where are you ?? Ocean behind you and even waves

5512 king of kings

Michael, Happy Easter, Brother. I''l take one of those Subs off your hands because I trust you and know they are real. You have to be careful these days. Let me know when the time arrives.

thanks Michael, I appreciate everything about your videos, the format, the quality, the fact that you're showing how the watch looks on your wrist, moreover I really enjoy your sense of humor, not being biased or hyped by the latest trend. keep it real :) myself I got a 14060 2 liner, the only option I am considering to swap it for 14060m upon checking the conditions. if you can share your instagram contact would be great to follow you there. best!