Finding Mistakes in my AWD donor axle: GM 8.25 IFS Re-gear Attempt Pt.1

Рет қаралды 40,228

Күн бұрын

Whenever you buy a used drivetrain component, you usually assume that its been functioning properly in the vehicle that it came from, but in the case of the GM 8.25 IFS axle that was sourced from an AWD all wheel drive denali, there were some critical parts inside that were missing that could've spelt disaster when a lot of power was applied. The AWD front diff is intended to be installed in my GMT800 stepside silverado, and i needed to regear it to a 4.30 ratio to match the rear axle. installing new ring and pinion gears is not terribly difficult, but when I disassembled the axle, one side came apart way too easily, which made me realise something was missing inside, and had been for some time.
Check out my merch site to support the channel
tolmanperformance.com
For business inquiries, email tolmanperformance@gmail.com
Amazon Associates links for parts and gear I use to make these videos...
Main Vlogging Camera I use every day, Sony ZV1. Has excellent image quality and is easy to use for a non-camera person
amzn.to/3oeFGvi
External Shotgun Mic for outside shots
amzn.to/2Th8h4Q
GoPro Hero 7 Black for B-roll and POV
amzn.to/37sXhJP
Chapters
0:00 Re Gearing a GM 8.25 IFS
4:42 Tear Down Begins
6:57 Something Important is Missing
12:18 New Bearings in the Housing
13:41 4x4 vs AWD differences in the axle
16:31 Setup Bearings and Pinion Installed
17:52 Pump the Brakes
#awd #silverado #gmt800

Пікірлер: 153

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

The good news is we should have all the parts needed to wrap this up on Monday! Can't wait to try an AWD donut lol

@forgottenchild7935 2 жыл бұрын

What was that kit you used to press in the needle bearings around the 13:40 mark?

@ricopico1010 2 жыл бұрын

Hey LT, I was watching some of your past videos of ugly truck doing a quarter mile and I was thinking… will we see a video of ugly truck time now with the current mods? I’m curious what the new quarter mile time is now with the new stall converter.

@LittleOldBoat 2 жыл бұрын

Heat that case up to 180° drop that bearing race in ice water and you won’t need any type of pressing. Great info LT!

@Miguelperez-gi8lq 2 жыл бұрын

Your information is worth its weight in GOLD! Thank you and keep the Videos rolling please

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, will do!

@crw3673 2 жыл бұрын

Don't be discouraged! Another classic case of live and learn!

@LSandL31 2 жыл бұрын

Sometimes it’s the delays that make for better videos! So we can all see that nothing is ever perfect.

@rkirkley20 2 жыл бұрын

This is a perfectly timed video. I’m about to dig into my 8.25 to regear. It’ll be my first time, so it’s great to watch you tackle it before I attempt it. Thanks!

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

@leelawrence4056 2 жыл бұрын

I've watched you for years! Glad you are doing your own thing!

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

much appreciated!

@jeffboyer8214 2 жыл бұрын

You could have placed the race in the freezer for a while or even over night & they may have just dropped in. It amazing how gm parts are interchangeable on some lines even from other countries. Thank you for all your videos.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

I need to try the freezer trick at some point

@glenclifton4563 2 жыл бұрын

When I worked at Komatsu building excavators we had a deep freezer on the end of the line for the big pins we used to pin the tracks together. The pins were about 8-12 inches long and 1.5 in diameter. Worked great but still needed a big press. Much easier frozen!!

@ValarAmstaffs 2 жыл бұрын

Looking good LT! Making great progress!!

@jimmycokeanhour5196 2 жыл бұрын

Pretty cool to see the differences between the 4wd and awd front diffs never knew they differed so much

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

never knew myself until I got into one

@patrickmoran8790 2 жыл бұрын

About the rounded snap ring on the end of the axle shaft to the axle gear, there is a known problem for the ‘88 and newer IFS front GM trucks. The same problem would prevail in the next generation too. That snap ring sometimes fails due to CV axle failures to the wheel, and the damaged snap ring doesn’t show until later when the passenger half shaft starts to walk out. On my ‘96 half ton, the passenger half shaft of the housing started to walk out to cause a gear oil leak, and the CV axle failure due to geometry changes, plus noise. Thankfully, the shaft didn’t walk out enough to cause other damage. My truck is running stock height. I would think that having the torsion bars cranked for another inch or so would cause other signs and problems.

@ashtonmariefranklin725 2 жыл бұрын

I put an olds bravada front differential in my s10 with the awd tcase. On my passenger side the cv joint retaining clip failed causing the sold passenger side axle shaft to walk out and it pushed out a pressed in tin cap inside the inner cv joint causing gear lube to leak into the cv boot. To which the boot then exploded and flung tons of gear oil everywhere. Stunk like 90wt. New retaining clip and cv axle and fixed until i do a solid axle swap.

@teaguegearhart9851 2 жыл бұрын

Wow so many pieces and steps. After the transmission rebuild I bet this seemed easy. I don’t think I am this brave.

@vincentknight5358 2 жыл бұрын

Just takes patience and following directions with a little thinking mixed in.

@dannyflood3291 2 жыл бұрын

Great video man, keep on hammering away at this one, it's gonna be badass!!

@SWTWHITEGSR Жыл бұрын

Excellent video only thing that left me puzzled was the grinding inner pinion bearing.I’ve done mine and it was extremely easy but your video is very detailed and excellent.

@davestewart9146 2 жыл бұрын

I’ve never seen someone work on one of these front diffs, interesting to watch, thanks 👍😁

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoyed it

@1960Murf 2 жыл бұрын

Your builds are my favorite on KZfaq..

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

thanks! its appreciated

@terryjohnson8978 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for showing how you make the setup bearings. Good info there.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

You bet

@rolyLSX 2 жыл бұрын

Great work bro. I hope you make a video when you get the 100k subscription form you tube. Just make it exciting.

@rayrussell6064 2 жыл бұрын

I've done plenty of differentials at home before my accident and all I did was put all the races in the deep freeze and went to work and when I got home if they didn't just fall in I would use a propane torch and give it a little heat on the housing very rarely would I ever use a special tool on any race. That's my advice just saying. As always be safe 👍

@erichildreth7562 2 жыл бұрын

This looks like it would be fun and with the other tools that you have do make jobs like this a lot easier! Really enjoy your channel and looking forward to the next video! :)

@melissamalone1530 2 жыл бұрын

Your right Lt the CV shaft should have some travel or movement but not the stub shaft even my four wheeler has clips or rings on the stub shafts to hold them in

@Techangler65 2 жыл бұрын

Boy I am glad I had a performance shop do the gear change in my 2014 Silverado lol I went with the 3/73 with the 6.2 l86 I wish you were closer to me lol needling more done

@frankstavalo5788 2 жыл бұрын

I don’t understand why they would use a circlip only on the all-wheel-drive and not the four-wheel-drive because if that was the case the axle would move back-and-forth and tear the seal on the four-wheel-drive. All of those axles that we’ve ever had apart at work have always had circlips on both sides it’s almost like it’s a defect on the spider gear. Or it could’ve been an early design and that’s why they changed it to the circlips.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

I figured a 4wd would not need one because the inner stub axle just floats between the spider gear and the outer axle shaft. I assumed on a 4wd axle, the outer stub axle on the passenger side had some sort of way to retain the axle in place

@BBradford1825 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! I think you solved an issue with my Yukon. 🤔👍🏾

@sfv41901 2 жыл бұрын

Your parts delay just means another video for us 😀

@tomp3981 2 жыл бұрын

Every Sunday when you upload a video is the same time power nation comes on. Don't know witch one to watch first.

@teaguegearhart9851 2 жыл бұрын

That’s easy. LT. Lol

@tomp3981 2 жыл бұрын

@@teaguegearhart9851 yea easy answer just being sarcastic😏👌✌

@tomp3981 2 жыл бұрын

@@teaguegearhart9851 yea easy answer just being sarcastic😏👌✌

@RJ-nq5pd 2 жыл бұрын

It would be nice if you do a tool tour and what tools you like the most

@brianmallcom260 2 жыл бұрын

Good stuff LT

@MrShenron89 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome content man.

@johnmacdonald8234 2 жыл бұрын

what tools do you got for this? Would love to have links for these, Thanks

@CarTechTexas 2 жыл бұрын

You need a setup pinion nut as well. Makes it a lot easier...

@Funtimes670 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome content! I’ve considered changing my truck over to AWD ever since the red sled. Are the GM AWD set ups very sensitive to variations in tire size like if you blow out a tire and have to replace it, you have to replace them all? I have heard this about car AWD set ups like in Subaru.

@MoDawdy 2 жыл бұрын

ahhh! full size baking sheets for parts trays. I use those too. ordered a stack of 5 from eBay. great for even bigger projects too like trans rebuilds....

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

they make it easy working on dirty oily parts, it keeps the bench much cleaner

@ZackNakazora1 2 жыл бұрын

It's gonna be awesome to get this thing out in he snow with awd

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

I just hope we actually get more snow this winter. Utah's kinda been in a bad drought for the last several years

@AthensAtWork 2 жыл бұрын

Great video once again. Something to watch for with your new fuel pump. It may be too big for the stock fuel pressure regulator. My buddy blew up an engine because of this problem, the volume was over powering the injectors because it couldn't return enough fuel. That wased out the cylinders and contaminated the oil, then ate up all the bearings. I don't think there is a way to bypass the stock regulator, but there are inexpensive fuel rails that replace the factory fuel rails and allow a remote regulator. Just FYI, keep up the great work

@kiltedsaint 2 жыл бұрын

You can always do the c5 corvette filter/regulator. A lot of us lower boost guys do it. At least when I was low boost.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

I was worried about that on my other truck, but the stock regulator and lines was able to return adequate fuel volume, so I'm hoping the same thing is true with this one as well

@remodelwithashleys 2 жыл бұрын

I'm glad I found this video. I'm about to rebuild the front differential from a 07 denali. I pulled it apart yesterday, and the pinion feels really good and has no leaks. I've got to replace all the bearings. Do you have a video showing the tools and procedures to replace the bearings?

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

I believe the video after this one showed the procedure of installing the bearings

@turboboy-oq6xe 2 жыл бұрын

As for the bearing races I make sure there no burrs in housing, I put races in freezer and heat it up housing with mapp gas torch around the race bore then they fall into place by hand.

@Broadpaw_Fox 2 жыл бұрын

Using thermal expansion to your advantage is fun and makes you feel awesome. 🙂 Excellent tip.

@alexsayle6554 2 жыл бұрын

Did my rear bearings like this yesterday. Slid all the way in by hand! (Doubled checked with hammer o/c)

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

I'll have to try this at some point

@franciscovasquez4555 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, but what's your power level, and how will the gearing in the diff's work with rhe Trans gearing ratio help your set up

@robertminato2706 2 жыл бұрын

nice job L T!

@copacarbana 5 ай бұрын

@LawrenceTolman Great video, who makes the press adapter set by mm that you are using at 13:17?

@ratherbeboating10 2 жыл бұрын

I got that front race in with a hammer very carefully... and hated life doing it. Your solution is much more elegant. I thought to use a small bottle jack I had but that was a little too big to fit in the case as a press... But my god I hate those adjusters. Granted this was at 2 am but I just couldn't seem to get a feel for how to turn it in getting it right. Shims, would've got the match right on the 3rd or fourth shot at least. But at 10k later, so far so good. I just did a reseal and bearing job hoping it would check out in spec without adjustments but no, why would I get lucky and not have to re adjust everything... I will order a reman unit next time because apparently 6.0s never die lol. But that is hopefully another 300k down the line.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

hopefully the backlash adjustment goes a little easier on mine lol...

@ratherbeboating10 2 жыл бұрын

@@LawrenceTolman Honestly, I blame using a well used set too. Always seems much harder to get a decent pattern. You'll be fine I'm sure simply because the adjuster tabs will actually work lol.

@scottfenner4051 2 жыл бұрын

If there is a problem LT will solve it Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it Truck tech baby

@timdontwannasay5889 2 жыл бұрын

Good stuff!

@rolandlluis3153 Жыл бұрын

How does the driver side stub axle needle bearing go in ? Flat side , of needle bearing faces outward ( driver side ) or inward ( passenger side ) ? Thanks. ✌

@leonhidalgo9121 2 жыл бұрын

Great video I’ve always wanted to see ifs broken down. Do you know what the difference in rpm with 430 gear I’m assuming that you are removing a 410 gear

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

going from 3.73 to 4.30, at 75mph the truck turns 2,500 RPM

@rolandlluis3153 Жыл бұрын

What kind of problems would running the diff , with a broken locking adjustment tab on the driver side create ?

@notallthere9058 2 жыл бұрын

I hope your wife knows you are using her cookie pans.

@mitchoconnell6944 2 жыл бұрын

Rust converter on the frame is that an option?

@redrider11rc 2 жыл бұрын

What is the width of the front axle? From axle flange to axle flange?

@jonallen1985 2 жыл бұрын

I remember project red tie

@ronniecardy 2 жыл бұрын

I will never attempt to doing anything like this. I can't remember where things came went

@atheplummer 2 жыл бұрын

You won't like the All wheel drive over the selectable because once one tire breaks loose you'll lose power to the other wheels. Stapleton42 Has a 8 second Escalade and he had to take the All wheel drive unit out....

@Broadpaw_Fox 2 жыл бұрын

That's not true unless the viscous coupler is bad. With an lsd in the rear you'll only ever get one front to spin without some stupid abuse. BUT, if you do abuse it a lot that viscous coypler isn't the best at handling it and will die an early death. Keep from abusing the thing though (burnouts are ridiculous anyway) and they do fine.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

I'm familiar with Stapelton's setup, and the primary difference is his AWD setup used a Borg Warner transfer case which actually uses an open center differential, and relies on the ABS system to control which wheels are spinning or not, which isn't great from a high performance standpoint as he mentioned in his videos. The transfer case I am using operates a bit differently. The NV149 uses a viscous coupler to split torque 36% front 64% rear, but the system can operate without the intervention of the ABS system. Now if the viscous coupler has failed, it can cause problems, but that's another story.

@joshfeller4683 2 жыл бұрын

Nice

@JeepXJ99 2 жыл бұрын

Im honestly surprised you didnt go a detroit tru trac for the front as well

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

the trouble is nobody makes any sort of limited slip for the 8.25 IFS

@JeepXJ99 2 жыл бұрын

Oh really? Well thats not very cash money of them, hopefully you shouldnt end up needing the extra grip anyway.

@refugio9539 Жыл бұрын

🔥🔥🔥

@Mr.Cadillac94 2 жыл бұрын

Hey LT. are you going to C notch the frame on this one also

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

no immediate plans to, but we'll see how it drives

@Watchingyou-daily 2 жыл бұрын

That 4 auto in the yukon Denali is not AWD it's primarily 2wd till you have a percentage of slippage in the rear.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

Well there are two transfer cases you may be confusing that GM used which operate very differently from one another. The NV149 transfer case (which I have) is a full time viscous coupled AWD transfer case with a 36/64 torque split. GM did also use an "Autotrac" transfer case in several pickups and SUVs that operated like you described (a NP246). It used a wet clutch that would send power to the front wheels whenever wheel slip was detected. In addition, GM also used a borg warner all wheel drive transfer case in some Escalades and Denali's which used an open differential, but relied on the ABS system to control wheel slip...

@T0tenkampf 2 жыл бұрын

What are those two race / bearing driver kits that you are using, the ones in the blue and red cases? US General maybe? Cant quite read it.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

The red one is US General/Harbor Freight. The blue box is from Amazon, it’s like a 50 piece kit

@T0tenkampf 2 жыл бұрын

@@LawrenceTolman Is that what they are called? Bearing driver kit?

@chadwynia5021 2 жыл бұрын

Is there a reason for no limited slip in the front to match the back?

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

they don't make em

@digitalblasphemy1100 2 жыл бұрын

Hey LT, What exactly was the issue in the bow tie build that led to failure? I was so excited for that build but left feeling like there was a design problem. Are you doing something different with this build that will solve that potential issue?

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

I think the problem was that we made the front end too low, the CV angles were too high, and when you went over a larger bump, the axle over extended and pulled out of the CV cup. On this truck, I'm trying to be somewhat conservative with the CV angles so hopefully this doesn't happen again

@brucewrandol 9 ай бұрын

If you used 4:87 in your rear end why wouldn’t you look for an axle with the same gear as the rear end?

@200shotramhemi4 2 жыл бұрын

What broke on project red tide? Was it the front axle shaft or the axle with boots?

@dalehall2993 2 жыл бұрын

Cv axle on the passenger side..rcv makes heavy duty ones for around 2500 a set..

@godofmaine 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Lawrence LT Tolman can u put a truetrac in a ifs diff or do you need a solid front axle

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

sadly there is no limited slip of any kind available for this axle

@godofmaine 2 жыл бұрын

@@LawrenceTolman running into the same problem with my 16 ram :(

@aurktman1106 2 жыл бұрын

What cleaner do you use in your parts washer?

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

I use the tractor supply solvent, works great

@rustybeatty6567 2 жыл бұрын

Never use a grinder on any kind of bearing the best way is the Hot and Cold method and the use of a hydraulic press.

@ms01885 2 жыл бұрын

The bearing he was gringding on was a set up bearing. The bearing for final assy will be pressed on.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

the bearings I ground out were for easy pinion adjustments, and when I do the final installation the setup bearing will come off and the permanent new bearing will get pressed into place.

@burtlandcastor8359 2 жыл бұрын

Don't hammer a steel scraper or blade between two aluminum(or other) mating surfaces. You'll just cause damage and leaks.

@jamesgreen2364 2 жыл бұрын

Can a Tru Trac be used In the front diff or will it bind up?

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

they don't actually make a truetrac or any limited slip diff for the 8.25 IFS

@jamesgreen2364 2 жыл бұрын

Okay thanks for the information

@Haze8923 2 жыл бұрын

How hard of a job is that? Want to swap my single cab to awd with the same ratio

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

its not necessarily hard, but does require you to be a but methodical to get the pattern set up properly

@johnnymack8442 2 жыл бұрын

When you said 4.30 I thought that's a odd size. 4.10 4.56 but 4.30?

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

yup, they're not as common as the others you mentioned, but 4.30s do indeed exist

@bobqzzi 2 жыл бұрын

Wait, you're putting the open diff back in? sounds way less than optimal especially if you are autocrossing

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

True, but there are no limited slips available for this particular axle

@bobqzzi 2 жыл бұрын

@@LawrenceTolman Oh, no kidding? I would have thought you could get ne for anything these days.

@earlcopeland7397 2 жыл бұрын

How hard would it be to put a 3/4 ton front diff in its place. Several companies make lockers for the 9.25.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

@@earlcopeland7397 I am considering looking into this for another project. I know some guys have done it, but said it was a huge pain in the butt...

@erscustoms911 2 жыл бұрын

Hello I am your FRAME….. Paint me please 😝

@moejr14 2 жыл бұрын

So how did you run the 4.30 in the rear without changing the front? Won’t that ruin the t-case?

@dm-zx7xb 2 жыл бұрын

Because he has a four wheel drive t case and left it in two wheel drive

@moejr14 2 жыл бұрын

@@dm-zx7xb ok but doesn’t the front driveline still spin?

@dm-zx7xb 2 жыл бұрын

@@moejr14 if it is in two wheel drive the front drive shaft MAY spin but only due to friction - it is not spinning because it is being driven from being locked in place by anything. It wouldn't even be spinning at the same speed as the rear even if the front and rear diffs are geared the same. Kind of like having your rear axle on jack stands, vehicle in two wheel drive, transmission in neutral, engine running, and you can watch the rear wheels spin - they are only spinning due to friction in the transmission's unapplied clutch packs not because anything is locked in place.

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

Other comments have hit the nail on the head, but basically by running in 2wd nothing will get hurt. Even if the front driveshaft is spinning (which is does on the NP246 autotrac case due to drag of the clutch packs) the passenger side front axle is disconnected via the coupler in the diff, so any difference in speed is allowed by the disconnected axle shaft, and no strain is introduced into the transfer case.

@moejr14 2 жыл бұрын

@@LawrenceTolman awesome so I can install My JY rear axle with 4.10s and ignore the front for a while awesome thanls

@b.s.adventures9421 2 жыл бұрын

Do they use that same 8.25 in the 2500 ‘s ?

@ronfrance4041 2 жыл бұрын

9.25” for the 2500

@b.s.adventures9421 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks

@Drunken_Hamster 2 жыл бұрын

Spider gears? Aren't you gonna trutrac the front, too???

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

if they made one I might

@Drunken_Hamster 2 жыл бұрын

@@LawrenceTolman Heard you mention that in the new video. Big sadge. Maybe call up Eaton and ask them how much a 1 of 1 8.25 high ratio trutrac would cost just for shiggles. Tell them you'll send them a used core/carrier for testing and measurement, if you have to, too.

@jonny63912 2 жыл бұрын

Haha I like your o ring seal remover never though about using that

@randyrichardson4364 2 жыл бұрын

just using an open diff?

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

yes, that's all that is available for the 8.25" IFS

@namssab98 2 жыл бұрын

is it possible to make a truck have selectable 4wd for the street if you keep the original transfer case and swap out the front diff for an AWD diff?

@TanCalHan 2 жыл бұрын

The diffs are the same essentially. What makes it AWD is the tcase. AWD t case for those use a viscous type coupling I believe.

@namssab98 2 жыл бұрын

@@TanCalHan Yes, I know the transfer case makes it AWD vs 4WD. I'm wondering if there's a way to make it selectable with the 4WD transfer case instead of full time AWD. Doesn't the front diff lock when engaged in the 4x4 where the AWD doesn't?

@dm-zx7xb 2 жыл бұрын

@@namssab98 you are correct. I can't imagine a reason why that couldn't work. Then you have a better lock between front and rear drive shafts not going through the viscous coupling

@LawrenceTolman 2 жыл бұрын

I suppose you could if you wanted to, but it would really work the same way, only getting power to the front wheels when 4x4 is engaged, and both the AWD and 4wd front axle have an open differential anyhow, so there's no traction advantage between the two.

@ThomasTT496Vega 2 жыл бұрын

One could run the AWD front diff and the part time t-case. Down sides would be the front drive shaft always being actively driven by the front diff. (No axle disconnect) It would not be happy in 4wd in any type of turn or street driving. The upside would be straight line. You could do your burn out in 2wd then flip a switch for a full power 4wd launch. I'm going the AWD route. Want the grip alway there.