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I wish I had found this a year ago. I am a retired telephone company "Transmission Technical Support Engineer" and part of my many hatted job was to prove to power companies that they could, would, and were contributing to noise on my telephone cables with neutral/ground problems. Without getting pedantic, I took a power company field engineer on a field trip when we had been arguing about stray currents using my telephone cable as a better ground than his neutral, and hooked up all of my meters and showed him. Despite the demonstration, he still acted as though I was using some sort of slight of hand, and that's when I realized that he did not really understand the nature of ground and differences in ground potential, so I hooked up my Ground Potential Rise test set improperly ( slight of hand after all) and hooked one electrode to an 8 inch screw driver stuck in the ground about 50 feet away and the other lead to the ground wire from the pole pig transformer that we were near, and showed ~30Vac and about .6A. I told him that his system (delta) was doing this, and then drove another screwdriver into the ground 50 off in a different direction and showed .1A and a varying voltage less than 5Vac. Actually what we found, after much more wrangling, was that the rural road had had a recent "explosion" in population and businesses, including a machine shop with nice synchronous motors, and the power company, instead of re-engineering the power along the road and taken the cheap and easy way out. Starting from the three phase Wye fed distribution line, the local line was a couple of miles of single phase with a neutral. They converted the neutral to a phase wire and delta fed the road, just replacing the older transformers as needed. They also clean forgot to tell us that they were no longer a Multi-grounded neutral system out there any more so that we could correct our bonding and grounding. My telephone cable was providing a much better ground than the rocky soil up in the mountains and it was no wonder we were having noise. So, I might be late in suggesting this, but pull those ground rod connections and prove whether the power company is "borrowing" some neutral from you.

It could be the earth's magnetic field. Turn the house 90 degrees

I like the way you answered the question. Power is attempting to return back to its source through the lease resistant point. I do appreciate your videos keep up the great work.

Congrats bud on your success!! You're definitely learning and you're work speaks for itself. Presentation is 90% of the grade.

That was excellent troubleshooting! Very methodical. You have a good grasp of what you should see and then compare it to what's really there. Well done. Greetings from Arizona.

This is real troubleshooting! I'm used to tracking down strange issues like this doing the live audio work that I do. That much current on the ground could cause wacky issues with audio and lightning gear, especially with the newer digital equipment we use.

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="498">8:18</a> and now I am fully hooked to finish the video!! All off circuits and still current...

Ben, congrats for this great and educational video. I believe that you have excessive leakage current in the transformer. Usually acceptable leakage currents are in the order of a few mA where most leakage is due to the capacitive currents that are created from the difference in voltage across the insulating barrier in the transformer windings. As you are measuring hundreds of mA of leakage with everything disconnected, perhaps you should check your transformer specifications for leakage current and see where you are. Another thing to consider, this can also be caused by ground loops. Keeps us posted on your findings, and great content.

Benjamin, From the video you have two very possible sources. One is much more likely than the other. I'll start with the likely first. 1 The utility has current into the ground due to the pad transformer is single phase. You can read the tag on the transformer. If the primary is 5,000 Volts, the transformer is receiving 1 hot leg of a 3 phase system, and a neutral. The Neutral is bonded to ground. The neutral has a long... Long wire, so considerable resistance. Not all current of the transformer is returning on the neutral. Some is taking a shortcut back to the substation through the ground, which you can measure on your ground rods. This is common in rural areas where the distribution goes past the point they pull 4 wire 3 phase power. Read the tag on the transformer. Almost will bet my lunch the primary is 5KV. Most non rural areas have two hots from 3 phase. When this is the case the primary is 7200 volts phase to phase. 2 You are between someplace with an open neutral and there is a voltage gradient in the ground. If this is the case the current in the ground is finding a lower resistance shortcut in it's path by going onto the ground wire between the two places. How to test the difference yourself. 1 Monitor the current to your ground rods. Turn on the water heater after a shower, turn on the dryer, heat pump, and stove. This increases your power draw and the draw in the primary of the transformer. The higher HV draw will increase the current in the grounding system in the single phase application outlined above. A bi-phase 7200 volt primary with all return current on the other hot phase will not increase ground rod current with the increased load. Let us know what you find. Betcha it is number 1 above with a 5KV single hot transformer. Primary return currents are fed into the ground.

I applaud you for getting high quality sound in your videos. The Rode Wireless Go is a nice choice.

I live near one of the largest marina towns in Europe. Most people have unusual erosion on sacrificial anodes on outboard drives on their boats, moored by their back garden, as ground currents make their way back from canalside villas and apartment blocks through the water, passing in and out through underwater fittings on boat hulls, offering less resistance than the canal water - which differs in salinity according to the last rain shower. Fascinating subject, Ben, great videos. Keep it up ! OFSO

thanks for doing these videos, I had to install A brand new sub panel at my house, it only had three wires going to the main. My new box had two lugs, one for only the grounds and the other for only the neutrals, I first called an electrician, and the guy that came by and looked at it said he was afraid he would lose his license if he worked on it because it wasn't a 4 wire feed to the box. so I had to do it myself, while waiting on another electrician that was to busy for me. your videos helped me out so much. the new subpanel is a seimans, and the neutrals and grounds are all on a seperate lug strip, the bonding screw removed. I had to have the grounding lug connected to 6 g solid wire, and grounded to copper pipe, due to the location of the box this was the best way for me. and the big white wire coming from the main box, is for only neutrals on the subpanel. I subscribed to your channel out of appreciation for your videos, and discussions on subpanels, and how they should be wired up. Thanks so much.

I love the follow up video Ben!! You are fun to watch! Electrical videos are the way to go :) The comments you pulled up and referenced was a great touch! By the way, you may have forgotten to insert a card at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="25">0:25</a> or maybe it just didn't show up on my computer..

I love the fact that he knows exactly what each breaker feeds.

whoever wired that box up is a MASTER! it's a piece of ART :) beautiful work.

That was fun. I always like trying work problems like that. Thanks for inviting us.

Oh ya. Good call turning the power back on when the boss rolled in. Smart man

Great video again... Keep them coming... In the utility company, if we were doing readings with no ppe on, safety glasses, FR clothing and 240 insulated gloves.. Looking at a 20 day suspension.....

Ben, for the purists power is amperage x voltage. If there is amperage (current) then there has to be voltage. However minimal. I was not surprised when you found stray current from the utility. I believe that many utilities tie their neutral, or the “shield” of a buried high voltage cable to the neutral of the secondary. This distributed ground dissipates faults and lightning. That is why copper thieves some time get nasty surprises when cutting ground wiring that might be in a fault condition, allowing the voltage to soar up and shock or burn them. You did an excellent diagnosis. Good work.

Thank you everyone… especially you Ben… I am a self taught HVAC contractor who runs into stay voltage issues regularly… this has helped my thought process!

Great video! I'm no expert, but it looks to me that you have proved that your ground system is doing exactly what it was designed to do. There is always the chance of having some current potential (voltage) between a power system and ground, hence why we need to ground (bond) our house to the power station via the Earth.

Thx for these videos I have an hvac license with basic electrical and this shit really has helped me find issues and solve problems when I see them

I saw a similar problem on a farm in Illinois. Horses wouldn’t drink from their (heated) troughs because of shocking. I eliminated the possibility of induction from the long run of wires. I didn’t consider the neutral leg from the transformer, but that could have been the source. Good video!

I love your channel. I love to troubleshoot jobs like this, this was a head scratcher. Look forward watching more of your videos

Did you ever find the cause?? Long, but interesting. I have a similar issue here in Holiday, Florida. Bought the house in 09'. Moved in after a major remodel. Within the first few showers in out new to us master bathroom, my wife was complaining for feeling like she was being electrocuted in the shower. I had never felt it till I was in the shower adjusting the shower head with a cut on my finger. It was enough to wake me right the hell up!! Most outlets and switches had been changed in the house along with most appliances. My thought was, electric water tank. Oddly, I wasn't able to read any current draw anywhere and it was beginning to make me think it was something we did while remodeling. Now I have an automotive background with some home remodeling under my belt, but for sure, not an electrician. So while I was not getting any read with my digital meter, I DID with an old analog meter but only IN MY SHOWER!! Yes, I figured we had run a screw into the wiring. Since I was getting a read off the shower and frame of the shower door. So I pulled all the screws in the frame to wall, (the entire time saying, NO WAY I DID THAT!!) Well, screws out and still .45 volts. Checking other plumbing in the house shows zero. So I do what everyone else would do and shut off the main. Go back to the shower and .45 amps. Now I call the power company. Guy shows up and asks what is going on. I tell him and he looks at my like I am purple.. I tell him to grab his meter and follow me. Of course he grabs his digital meter and shows me there is nothing on the line.. I grab my old analog meter and show him and now it is 5.1 amps. I then ask him if we pull the can, will it break the neutral? He says he doesn't know.. I ask: HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN DOING THIS??? 12 years, he replies.. lol.. So while he is telling me it is in my house, I am telling him I have tried everything in the house and it is NOT. After he confirmed everything, he finally pulled the can. Now I can see that the neutral is ALWAYS hooked up all the way back to the transformer. Now I want him to check the transformer and her starts in on it being my neighbors house. Side note: After he left, my neighbor asked what was going on. I told her we were getting shocked in our shower. She says: ARE YOU KIDDING??? Turns out they had remodeled their bathroom a few years before we bought next door. After their expensive remodel, she was getting shocked!! Thinking it was something their remodeler had done, they ripped the shower walls back out digging for the issue. Never found it, but their new shower control handles were PLASTIC, so she never got zapped again!! So while the Power guy was here, I got him to go into the transformer and tighten up our wire clamps. He argued doing so, but I again proved to him it would make a difference. Sure enough, the voltage went UP!! Went from 5.1 to 5.9 and considering I didn't have a straight line of sight and yelled out the window exactly when he tightened up the clamp, he finally started to believe I knew what I was talking about. Then he said he had no idea and the engineers would have to look into it. A week later another truck pulls up out front. 2 guys this time. I answer the door and tell the first guy the story. He yells out to the other guy, WE HAVE ANOTHER POWERED GROUND ISSUE LIKE THE BEER PLANT!! Well, as the crow flier, the beer plant is about 1600 feet away. Turns out, after more than a year of investigating, it was a bad transformer on site and owned by the beer company. It literally would raise the hair on your arms if you walked too close to a steel building on their property. So now these two make some checks and tell me I will be hearing from Florida Power. Another few days go by and I get a call. 2 engineers come to the house and I tell them the entire story. Top guy wants to see my meter and where exactly the master bath is. I tell them I have seen as much as 9.6 volts. After months of more digging they found nothing. Still, we are getting blasted in the shower. It's worse on the wife than me, but she is still showering every day in that shower. She just sets the temp before getting in and gets out and stands on the bath rug to shut it off. So we've owned the house about 2 years at this next point when the neighbor across the street asks me if I would come over and shut off her shower.. WHAT!!!!!! I get over there and she tells me her ELECTRICIAN hubby is out of town working and she cannot leave the water running any longer.. Sure as the SUN, I shut off the water and come back with my meter. BANG!! She has 6.6 volts in her master shower. I checked other plumbing there just as I did here and next door and in all three homes it is only in the master showers. I call back the engineers and tell them this new discovery. He says: I will be there within the hour and I am pretty sure I know what is wrong! GREAT!!! He shows up and says: We had linesmen run tests in this area in every possible place and what we know today is that someone LIED!!! Turns out, from him knowing the neighbor across the street, (Different transformer), had the same issue that it had to be a capacitor bank about 1 mile away that was leaking into the neutral at our power transmission dump. Sure enough, he had it tested again and it failed. After being rewired correctly, I no longer had voltage in my shower... But over time, guess what came back!!!!!! Hope this helps..

The distribution system is likely a multi grounded system which means the neutral on the primary side of the system is bonded to ground in multiple locations. The primary neutral at the pad mount transformer is also bonded to the secondary neutral and tied to ground. Your house is likely between the substation and downstream load. You mentioned in your video that current will flow through all paths and this is what's going on here. Your house and ground system is a parallel path back to the source.

You my young friend are truly a pleasure! Thank you so much. I’m headed soon to a ‘cowboy’ friends ranch to track down some ‘stray current’ or ‘phantom voltage’ @ his horse watering trough. I’m gonna re-speak a lot of your words while out there. I will pay a ‘royalty’ in the form of food or beverage. You just need to come to Calgary Alberta Canada! THANK YOU!!!

Hello Ben, Great vidz u make. I spoke to a utility wrkr who told me, ," If a neighbor lost their neutral, current could flow to ground at neighbors house up to the neutral/ground bus and then return to pole via neighbors neutral."

There are hundreds of good write ups on field piece units when I was trying to decide what meter to get. I did however see several write ups on thos meters picking up "Ghost readings" on various settings where other meters did not. Just throwing it out there. You have great videos, thank you.

Friend of mine had a similar problem. He was measuring 30 V from the ground in the basement panel to a bonding ground on his water line. Initially, the utility company blamed it on faulty wiring somewhere inside the house and told him to call an electrician, He did so and nothing was found. Eventually, after several emails back and forth to the utility company, they determined it was a problem at their distribution transformer where the neutral wasn't grounded correctly.

Ben on the farm, on one of the livestock wells, we had current on the ground lead. The one line man said that it was not a problem. Two days before Christmas at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="270">4:30</a>, -10°f, L1 was 75 volts, L2 was 162 volts. The line men got to come out and change the transformer. The ground line went to 0.2 volts. Which is good. Good luck from north east Montana.

Thanks! My garage sub panel was installed by and old timer electrician friend who has since died. But, sure enough, the bonding screw was installed, so I removed it. Thanks again.

Great work Ben, it’s interesting to see how electrical systems differ in deferent countries. Many years ago I had a similar situation and found that if we bridged out and grounded the CT’s (current transform’s) that are installed in the main panel during the test the current to ground reading disappeared, also the consumption meter could be an influence. It could be a good idea to check that the centre point of the transformer has been grounded. You never know this could be helpful good look with with solving this problem.

Thanks for this fun video, Ben. I found this after debugging a similar issue at my rural home. The culprit in my case (and I suspect yours) is that rural distribution lines are liable to carry significant voltage on their neutrals. The way to check this is to measure the voltage between the incoming neutral and the literal ground (that is, stick a rod in the ground and measure voltage to it). Our (and I assume your) transformer center tap is bonded to the power company neutral and so our entire house ground is actually a little hot. Our grounding system is crap, so the current flowing is too small to measure, but the voltage is high enough to deliver a mild shock! Incidentally, I am having a hell of a time getting my power company to take it seriously so I'm working on my own little video to publicize the problem. Cheers!

Waiting to see how you resolve this. Im very curious. I know enough to realize how much I don't know. Keep them coming i really want to see the end of this one.

Had a buddy with similar issue. Ended up being city water pipes. Older homes was very common to ground to city pipes and someone else's house was causing the current.

I love your video's! I thought for sure a bad WH element...now I'm thinking with the fluctuation in current it's a back feed from the grid...(your neighbors).

I stated on the last video that you have a ground rod by the main panel. You also have a ground point with your plumbing coupling/gas coupling/ground wire. You have .44 amps at the neutral and you will see .22 amps on each parallel leg of the grounding. If you added a third ground point, you would see .15 amps on each leg. These are two parallel paths to ground from the transformer.

I was getting amped up with you as you went through the process. VERY exciting!! what I really wanted to mention tho, is that photo bombing fluffy lol awwww

Very informative. Nice work!

Ben, my thoughts in regards to this kind of scenario is that the 0V of the MV/HV Neutral/centre is finding its way for ANY/Better/Nearer Grounding at the(your) localities. Even though their Grounding Network of their Neutrals are of the Lowest Ground Resistance ie Zero Ohm, but at yr localities too are Interconnected into 'another network' of Grounding via yr own Rods, Bonding to Neutrals, direct/indirect bonding of gas/water pipes etc. There surely be some Ground Resistance BETWEEN 0V MV/HV Neutral aka Service Entrance Neutral AND yr Localised Grounding and/or Bonding(remember that yr Neutral are Ground Bonded in MainPanel). The difference between these two sets of 'grounding' which could be just few upto few hundreds of Ohms will result in the rise of Potential(both frm the Service Neutral Currents under comunity Load, and localised miniature/'hidden' currents). Generally the 0V of MV/HV Neutral aka Service Entrance Neutral albeit Lowest of Resistance and 'strongest', will DEGRADE under Load(community) made worst after running for many miles... So like it or not, some 'currents' present in the Service Neutral will try to 'creep' to the Nearest Ground available(yr Grounding & Bonding) rather than taking a long way back to its 'best network of Neutrals'. That is how you register some low amperage on the Service Neutral with yr localised Grounding/Bonding interconnected to it.

As an engineer, I have performed many tests and written several articles about stray voltage and ground current over the years. You have found ~200ma of stray ground current on the panel grounding conductor. Since current never flows into an open (except in RF, another topic), the same ~200ma you found will be also be found on one or more other grounded conductors within the very same panel. This includes grounds and neutrals. And since this is a ground current issue, it has nothing to do with breakers or loads, hence your lack of any change as you eliminated them. Use your ammeter and look at each and every ground and neutral, one at a time. Some will be zero and some will have a small amount of current. I can guarantee that they will add up to your ~200ma. You are also mixing primary with secondary grounding in your discussion toward the end of your video. These are usually two different grounding systems. Primary is distribution and secondary is subscriber. Primary and secondary are not directly intertwined.

I like how you zip tied the wires inside the panel. Didn’t know about the 2020 surge breaker req, I’ll have to add one.

Cool video! Remember safety first when measuring within a live panel . There’s a few good videos on arc flash / blast

Nice video! A couple of things... Don't get too wound up on the semantics. Ampmeter and ammeter are the same thing, other than the p, of course. Their purpose is to measure the amount of current moving through a conductor and display the value in units called amperes. Also, on current vs power, just remember the basics. Voltage will always equal current times resistance, and power will always equal voltage times current. So, when you say "it's not power, it's current", it's actually both. In this case, you don't know how much power because you didn't say what the voltage is. Is 1/4 amp a lot of power? Maybe, maybe not, depends on the voltage. Is that situation dangerous? Again, depends, 1/4 amp at 1 volt probably isn't , but 1/4 amp at a few thousand volts it probably is.

Point No. 1 This current simply the primary neutral current, all of your grounding electrodes are in parallel with the utility neutral. Watch this video so you understand - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l8WeqcKCnr3GlXk.html Point No. 2 Current/electricity is NOT going to ground. Watch this video so you understand - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o9aXdLl2mbvbdqs.html You were measuring utility primary neutral current and it's normal, since you had the EGC connected to a grounding electrode. If you had placed your current meter on any of the grounding electrode conductors you would have measured primary neutral current as well. Also you would measure current on the telephone line, as well as the CATV cable. That's just how our electrical system works.

Love your videos. I design and install solar. Just a heads up for what its worth - my lead solar electrician says that the appliance readings on Sense unfortunately are pretty inaccurate. He hopes that their algorithms that recognize specific appliances by their electrical consumption patterns will improve as more people use it, but he really loves e-gauge. It's more expensive, but each circuit has its own CT so you know exactly what each circuit is consuming. Lots of our solar customers love it.

Very informative video, and some very smart and informative comments

It may be improper grounding at the utility side. The neutral on the secondary of their transformer may be floating at a voltage higher than ground. This happens because the wire itself has some resistance and the current flowing through it will create a voltage of greater than 0 at any point that isn't properly grounded. So the current you are seeing may be from the current flowing from the neutral's increase potential to ground at your properly grounded panel.

After watching one of your other videos and then this one, I would like to see you place your meter on the transformer and the physical ground (looking to see if there is a gradient with that stray current). It is a regular occurrence that people are getting killed all of the time because of fault currents (Mike Holt explains this in his grounding video "Where's the Ground?"). Please let me know how it comes out.

The current could be originating in your electrical utility’s system where there are differences in ground potentials between their earth grounds and yours. Prove this by lifting their neutral conductors where it attaches to your house’s system. Otherwise, just one of life’s little mysteries. Also you seem to be one of the best informed producers of these videos, and further, you are quick to point out when you are not completely informed. For this you have to be commended.

Aaaaaawwwwww yeeeeaaaaaahh, im a budding engineer and love these videos, braj!!! Im all in!

@benjamin In CO we don't allow bonding on the gas line. The steel lines actually carry a small current because of electrolysis which is why they connect sacrificial anodes to the lines and bury them with the pipe. I'm curious if that uninsulated union is contributing to that stay current.

Master electrician friend if mine had similar and more dangerous situation then yours. It took much discussion with the utility company to get then to test and repair there insufficient grounding rod at the nearest pole / transformer to his home. They ended up pounding down a deeper rod to cure his problem.

Mike holt in one of his many great videos explain in detail how there is some type of current leakage coming from the main grid... I can't recall the name of the video but it is worth it to look for it...

Sir Thank you for every info you shared!

Once I had an older electrician tell me that the home's electrical wiring itself produces EMF, and that consumes stray voltage, and shows as stray current. The wiring web in a home consumes current unused, unload as EMF.

I think it would be helpful to measure the current at each ground rod, including the one at the transformer. Using that, you could visualize the voltage gradients between them in the earth driving those currents.

Great Video... looks like I have the same issue... I actually found this when plugging into an outlet tester and getting a closed ground, when I knew it wasn't bonded. The slight voltage on the ground was enough to light up my outlet testers closed ground. I also went to the neighbors house and found that they have the same thing going on.

That was very interesting. Love a good mystery,

Worked on a 277 lighting grid, 60 fixtures- turn off the breaker, and two fixtures would turn on instead of off!

Current flowing through ground wire (or neutral wire) is actually called primary neutral current as it comes from primary of distribution transformer.At the distribution transformer primary and secodary neutrals are both connected together as well as to ground.So the source of current is primary neutral current.

Great post my friend, this type of problem is what makes electricity so cool. Now we can factor in all kinds of theory, but my guess is some sort of inductance on the system.

Thank you. This is si helpful.

If you built that panel, I must say I wish all electricians were that meticulous.

It's static discharge from petting that cat. The dry winter air makes it more pronounced.

This is a great video!

I used to work as a journeyman water well pump mechanic. There would be many times an old well sets that were leaking power. This could be at the neighbors you're well and well casing is a fantastic ground. Power Boxes by Wells a lot rusted out from the weather neutrals compromised grounds compromised. Just another Avenue to check.

The utility company only charges you based on current moving through A and B phase in your situation, the giveaway is that they are the only conductors in your main panel that have CT's monitoring current flow.I would like to think that if you added another ground rod further(+-15 feet) from the main panel or even in the xformer itself( it should have one on primary and one on secondary) that you would get less saturation from that ground ring at that location thus allowing the leakage from the neutral(which is normal btw)to go to ground there rather than flowing back into the house. That all depends on the resistivity of the soil the ground rods are in(black dirt=good,sandy soil=bad).Now if the ground rods were not sunk in past the permafrost layer then that would cause the system to not be able to dissipate the leakage current as well. Its been a while since Ive read my grounding and bonding textbook from the apprenticeship so everything Ive said is probably wrong.

Nice job, very logical and sympathetic approach. I'd bet your correct its b/c of the transformer. Most utilities drive a ground rod to ground & bond the transformer. Likely your grounding system is the path with least resistance. Utility need to check connections or drive another rod

First off, I'm glad you went back to this for the video as I'm curious as well. I saw the original quite a while ago. Well, simple science says current cannot flow without a potential difference. My guess would be voltage from something acting like an anode and cathode (battery.) Unless you have an EMF being created, the battery makes the most sense. Wasn't that gas meter union corroding? I'd look there first, see if that's the sacrificial anode (oxidation.) Current has to flow back to the anode once the electrons go to the cathode (closed circuit) in order for current to be on the ground line. You could do a bunch more testing but throw in that dielectric union and see if it subsists entirely, you're going to install it no matter what so it doesn't hurt to test before and after. The neutral tap current is more interesting, unless there's a potential difference at the grounding rod there and the tap in order to create yet another closed circuit for current to flow on. I wish I was more knowledgeable. I do wish to see some solution to this puzzle. Edit: Shit, I didn't see Mike Holt reply to this video. The guy's a genius. I defer all to him lol Love his videos and more technical explanations.

Greek to me, but such a nice place to start when trying to learn about electrical grounds and how to measure them. Great Video! FR

Is it possible to run my porch light with free stray ground current? I am kind of kidding. I am learning so much from your videos. Love your logic for problem solving and you look like text book problem solving. Thank you so much! I am definitely starting to view all your videos.

How about a vedio on troubleshooting arcfalt circuit that trips

Benjamin, Watch Mike Holt's video explaining NEV (Neutral to Earth Voltage) You were correct in the video when you suspected the source was the utility pole. Mike Holt's video does a great job of explaining why there is always a voltage potential to ground and therefore some current flow on all metal parts of your system to ground via the GEC back to the primary of the utility transformer on the pole.

Have watched years worth of case studies in multiple trades. That was one of the best. Thx

Ohms law, need to know the voltage to know if it’s actually any real amount of wattage. I think you simply have a difference of potential between the locations of the two panels. Disconnect the wire and check voltage on each end with power off, and then measure the amperage with a shunt rather than the inductive pickup. Bottom line, there’s no real issue most likely, your meter is just too capable of showing currents at very low voltage which is tricking you.

As soon as you mentioned multiple earth rod locations I guessed it was unequal potentials between earths. I was recently researching substations and the first lessons were on earth grids to avoid step fault dangers where you have a potential gradients as you travel away from the nearest earth point. In substations these can be lethal over only the length of a stride. Don’t know what the soil resistivity is like where you are but it is a big factor. You could look at marine galvanic isolation but I am not sure if it is a problem if your bonding is robust. Would be interesting to see what the open circuit potential difference is between earths. Good video.

Electrickery can drive me nuts. Thanks for not making me feel so alone.

As I tried to explain in your former video, (It's hard for me to write, since I'm not english speaking native, I live in El Salvador, Central America), "your" ground resistance is "better" than before you entrance panel. You can measure both values with a ground resistance meter or earth meter. Actually, in the market there are two types, Vener method and clamp meter. I think that the right place for testing is the entrance panel. After disconnecting power switch, isolate your neutral of the distribution system. Then, perform measuring of both neutrals. Very probably the resistance of your neutral will be lower than that of the distribution company.

Important!!! What ever you do, DO NOT lift any of those grounds coming from the transformer!!! If your ground is the only ground for that transformer and you lift that ground you will have the same high voltage potential on the side of the ground that was connected to the transformer! Just like an open neutral will have full voltage on it. This can be up to 14kV depending on your distribution voltage. I highly doubt you are the only ground, but it has happened. Call the utility and tell them what you found, they should roll a truck to come and verify the connections. Now on to my original possible explanation...... Looks like you have a less resistive ground, or only the only ground for the distribution transformer and you are reading some of the magnetization current for it. Could also be sharing current with the transformer ground. There should be a ground for the transformer at the transformer pad. Also, something that can influence a higher ground current is if your ultilites power system is a SWER, (single wire, earth return). Not that common, but with that there is just the one high voltage wire feeding the distribution in your area and relies on the earth for the return. That type of system does not have separate neutral strung along with the distribution for the return. Normally your distribution transformer will be fed with one high voltage and the neutral, which is also bonded to ground at the pole and at all transformers too. Look at the pole that feeds your transformer. You'll see the riser cable and the cable center conductor comes off the fuse and there will be some bare copper wire or tape that will be connected to another bare wire on the pole. That's called a concentric neutral, that connects to the system neutral and if that is not there, you have a SWER. In either case, it just sounds like your house grounds has a less resistance to ground than the ground that the transformer has. The only problem I see with that is if there is a lighting strike or the transformer itself faults to ground it can impress high voltages on to your grounding system.

Very interesting! Was the source of the stray current ever discovered?

good eexplanation andinteresting

A good video for fault finding. But in Australia we can only have an earth stake at the main switch board or we get earth looping through the ground.

Differential Ground Potential at each grounded connection - That's my thought. At some point, you may want to remove each ground from the "group" and isolate which may have the highest VOLTAGE differential to the CT of the MAIN XFMR. We know the CT cannot be absolutely the perfect point in the center of the XFMR windings, but with output (secondary) power off and (primary) power on, there is still a potential set up there with respect to the ground rod at that point, however isn't that point tied to a ground of the XFMR? (I don't know) I know if you set metal in the ground even 4-10ft apart (with adequate moisture & not too much), you can measure a different DC potential between each. As a retired tech, I ran in to situations like this affecting sensitive systems. I also encountered harmonics at certain panels caused by electronics without isolation transformers, this was an interesting challenge for me. I respect you so much for not acting like a "know it all expert" as many YT channels do, but you engage the audience and really get everyone involved. That's how we all get to learn. Also you learned, and try to correctly use the technical terms of voltage, current, and power. That makes for optimum communication. I say "well done" to you, sir and please continue so we all get to learn something from your situation.

Sorry I don't have any back handed comments on your looks like good ole Coleman but I am a new subscriber and found your last video informative and look forward to watching the rest given time. Thank you for making videos.

Ben you are on a Underground Residential Distribution system. You have a high voltage pad mount, 240 delta system. The pad mount creates its own neutral. The high voltage windings are energized. You have the closest neutral return. Ground rods and water pipe ground. Last video you energized a ground rod. But you could not do that if it was connected to a water pipe ground.

You are correct, a residential FM2 240v 3w electric meter only uses the two conductor wires to measure current when there’s load (usage). <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="1193">19:53</a>

Does the neutral tap on the transformer have only reference to ground at the main panel? Or does the transformer have its own reference to ground???

Man, I think you gotta measure the current on all of the neutral and ground wires in the breaker box with the mains off to trace where this current is going. I'd be a little worried about making any new connections to the neutral until figuring out where it's going.

Hey I really enjoyed this troubleshoot. Just letting you know. Thanks for the video. Look forward to more videos. Aloha.

This felt like an episote of a Ghost Hunters show. Especially at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="775">12:55</a>.... "oh my word!..." with some spooky stuff happening. Entertaining.

As I commented to you previously: The current you are reading leaving the ground wire on your sub panel is most likely due to the difference in potential between the ground rod at the sub panel and the ground potential at the main panel (ground rod and neutral line from the power company). I would venture to say you will never find two ground rods that have the same potential on them unless the are very close to each other. To say it in a different way, your ground rods are providing a return path to the power grid for other houses in your area. Roy...

Sometimes this situation is caused by the "galvanic action" in the soil itself,which can act as a large battery. When you have acidic soil, wet soil, iron deposits, etc. they can all contribute to the ground actually creating a current on a building's distributed grounding system. Even a single building ground can be interacting with a utility ground on a pole somewhere nearby. You did an excellent job chasing down the source. I had the utility come and disconnect the power leads at the pole, turn off every circuit, pull out the meter and there was still 2 amps on my building grounds. In the end they left completely unable to resolve the issue.

It could be a loose or corroded neutral connection at the meter. I had one and traced the leaking ground current to an underground gasoline storage tank pump motor. The steel tank was a excellent ground which was sharing the neutral current back to the utility transformer neutral. Called the utility and they found a corroded aluminum crimp connection on the over head service triplex line.

Thanks for all your great videos, im sure they inspire alot of people, I have a sub panel with 12 50 amp breakers that run into separate apartments no electric stoves just gas and was wondering if there is a way to hook up the sense to each breaker to the individual apartments so there would be 12 connections

We need the help of ElectroBOOM!

Would like to see the current readings on the outside ground rods. And any other earthed source.

Well done.