Fine Art’s Expulsion of Craft and Sensuality: Reading Larry Shiner’s "The Invention of Art"

Fine Art’s Expulsion of Craft and Sensuality: Reading Larry Shiner’s "The Invention of Art" | Part 1

Рет қаралды 3,698

Күн бұрын

Bork Nerdrum and Jan-Ove Tuv take a deep-dive into Larry Shiner's book The Invention of Art (2001), commenting on the contents from the perspective of classical painting and culture.
Part two: • The Genius, Museum and...
👍✨ Support our show and get access to more than 200 exclusive posts:
/ caveofapelles
Chapter markers:
00:00 "A European invention barely 200 years old"
05:58 The Great Division
10:02 Disinterested contemplation and the new religion
14:06 "The Greeks had no word for it"
17:50 A broader idea of imitation
21:45 Finding "Art" in the ancient Greeks
23:43 No "aesthetics": The Knidian Aphropdite & Daidalos
25:37 The Middle Ages: "artifici" vs. "artist"
28:32 Rubens the factory owner & Alexander Dumas’ ghost writers
31:30 The Middle Ages and the workshop tradition
37:29 Beauty and categorization in the middle ages
44:47 The status of the painter in the Renaissance
52:45 "Renaissance Rivals" and the categorization of music
55:53 Leonardo’s Madonna and the idea of progress
1:06:07 Projecting "modern" values into the past
1:17:00 "A Proto-Aesthetic"
1:24:20 Charles Batteux and the invention of "fine" arts
1:31:31 The Enlightenment Encyclopedia: fine arts versus reason
1:34:54 From "fine" art to "Art"
1:44:01 Signs of the modern art vs. craft polarity
1:47:49 Value: from painting to painter
This episode featured Bork Nerdrum & Jan-Ove Tuv and was filmed by Myndin Nerdrum & Eduardo Nogueira and was edited by Bork Nerdrum.
The centerpiece was a 19th century reproduction of G. F. Watts' Hope.
SHOUTOUT to our TOP SPONSORS!
Fergus Ryan
Matthias Proy
Børge Moe
Diego
Subscribe to our newsletter. It is the only way to make sure that you receive content from us on a regular basis:
bit.ly/2L8qCNn
Check out our other channels:
/ schoolofapelles
/ culturewarsnow
Podcast available on SoundCloud, iTunes, and Spotify:
/ caveofapelles
spoti.fi/2AVDkcT
apple.co/2QAcXD6
Website:
caveofapelles.com
Facebook page:
/ caveofapelles
TikTok:
/ caveofapelles
Instagram:
caveofapelles
For inquiries - talk@caveofapelles.com

Пікірлер: 12

@stephenrose1343 9 ай бұрын

Rubens and his clients did value those paintings "painted by my own hand" higher than studio production that, in turn, were valued lower according to his direct involvement. He got in trouble with some clients, Duke of Buckingham, for allegedly passing off studio works as by his own hand. Rubens' letters are a fascinating insight into his relationships.

@brightondelossantos4618 9 ай бұрын

I started reading this book in high school, I will have to borrow it from my mother and finish reading it… brilliant discussion, thank you.

@sevenlocks5238 9 ай бұрын

👏👏👏👏👏👏looking forward to pt2

@gordmacdonald9711 8 ай бұрын

There was a show in Toledo Ohio in 1993 with a 12 lb catalog. It was the circle of Rubens. I've heard he had as many as 150 people employed in his factory but that probably include the studios of Jan Fyt, Jacob Jordan's,.... My understanding was that there were secondary and tertiary painters that would work from a Rubens modello. If it need animals, Fyt would get the painting delivered to his studio, flowers to someone else. The secondary painters would do the secondary figures. When almost done, Rubens would do the main faces and figures. The Toledo show was spectacular. There were 2 paintings however that looked like they were painted 2 years prior. Bright colours, no cracks, deep rich as the day they were painted. Looking down at the tag, both were done on copper and were 300 years old. He was the Steven Spielberg of the 17th century.

@1k5uv13 5 ай бұрын

46:14 not strange at all in my modern ears hehe, frames is what makes my work «so expensive», they charge alot if you want proper glass and good wood

@Dino_Medici 5 ай бұрын

If you guys did a vid sharing some thoughts on meta modernism that would be sweet

@73elephants 8 ай бұрын

Sculptors and painters were highly esteemed and titled as recently as the late 19th century. Academicians who won medals often also went on to receive knighthoods, or even the title of Lord. Very rare today.

@sevenlocks5238 8 ай бұрын

awsome guys!

@jazw4649 6 ай бұрын

The Invention of Art: A Cultural History - Larry Shiner 20:00 min Renaissance Through the Arts Collected Essays - Paul Kristeller Larry Shiner seems like an interesting guy. His Art philosophy career has now shifted towards Olfactory Arts. The art of Smelling without Smelling... the art of fighting without fighting 😘 Smell Art.. you cant really youtube-ify that one!

@dantrianon4248 9 ай бұрын

Where can I find this book to read?

@transientimages 8 ай бұрын

What Jan-Ove Tuv mentioned at 1:50:15, it seems like picture making was safe for the moment -- though this discourse is **exactly** what's going on with AI. History does rhyme.