Hundreds?? Man he helped blow up a planet sized military based, assuming the planet was inhabited? He helped kill BILLIONS or MORE, assuming it was mostly desolate and it was just certain massive bases on the CONSERVATIVE end he killed 10s of millions At best he's Hitler+, at worst he's super ultra mega Hitler. Which would be pretty easy to disconnect and not think on too seriously if not for the fact Disney for SOME reason decided to make his entire origin story being the crippling guilt and pain of a single fellow trooper dying. And then go on to have him gleefully and pridefully slaughter MILLIONS???? WHAT???!?!?

Would have been better if he was cold from the start. All he knows is "by any means necessary." But he knows that what the First Order is doing is wrong. He turns, not because a buddy dies but because he discovered his moral code.

He Dosent shoot the civilians with the others so he separates himself from them at that point, I think the video failed to realize that

@@Raymal100 or he becomes super anti fighting because he relates too much to the other side tho that would have probably ended with a "everyone are friends love peace not war" kinda ending

@@Brothermanbillz then proceeds to kill civillians by blowing up a planet, just because it's a military base/planet does not mean there are no civillians inside.

You gotta be shitting me. Better than "I am your father"? "You were the chosen one"? "I am a Jedi, like my father before me"?

@@user-xx6vy9ri8p yes

@@user-xx6vy9ri8p yes it was a more brilliant and nuanced acting, what you're quoting are just classic lines

That was a damn Great scene! I really felt the tension build until finally he blew up and shot the officer!

Let’s be honest, Star Wars has never had good acting besides Alec Guinness and Williams/Ford. Everyone else was kinda flat (due to the wooden dialogue) But Bill Burr and the Mando crew are truly the saviors of the franchise. This by far was my favorite Mando episode.

Do you remember which podcast?

What podcast

@@inzanemonkey0510 Monday Morning Podcast episode from Monday 1/18/21. I misremembered the detail of how many got killed, but it still heavily affected the fan that wrote the email.

@@REYTRACER Monday Morning Podcast episode from Monday 1/18/21. I misremembered the detail of how many got killed, but it still heavily affected the fan that wrote the email.

Yeah then he went that’s fucking beyond me dood Jesus, I just thought of some fucked up shit that made me angry Gotta love bill burr

And the episode as a whole is packed with humanized troopers, them cheering over the succesful transport, an actual celebration and whatnot

Character development is, generally, shoddy in the sequel trilogy. Usually it is either inconsistent or barely present. Finn's development stars off promising and then he is relegated to comic relief. At least he is not tossed aside as unceremoniously as Phasma, or Snoke, or what's-her-name who had the hots for Finn for no reason.

@@chuckhoyle1211 I disagree. Character development was not shoddy, it was non-existent. All jokes aside, you are very correct.

In other words... fuk the sequels.

That's what separates Jon & Dave from Kathleen & her minions. That's the kind of writing you get when you hire writers who write a story full of real characters and not a bunch of crap to push "the message."

And actually wrote it with character development instead of "insert virtual signal here" or even took the time to follow established lore

What's funny is that there was a plan for the trilogy initially, albeit not a very good one. J.J. Abrams had an intended path for the movies to go but then Rian Johnson was like, "Nah, fuck that" and threw it all out of the window.

@@FalenDragmire Yeah, Abrams had a very loose idea of where things could go but I'm sure it was so vague that even if you tried to follow it it wouldn't end up good. That said, all Rian saw was his chance to "finally do his Star Wars fanfic" (paraphrased; he pretty much confirmed he knew nothing about the universe and was just excited to insert himself into something popular) and ruined any chance of recovering the sequel trilogy.

@@ForeverLaxx Oh I don't think it would have been good by any means. I was just pointing out that there at least was a loose outline for how things could go, but any hope of that was ruined by Rian Johnson wanting to be divisive for division's sake, by his own admission.

That's what the 1970's trilogy was, and then people liked it so more garbage was manufactured to make money from that nostalgia.

Well - and im not arguing with you - this just furthers your point. The entire sequel trilogy was that way. They were total complete utter horseshit. Poe just mysteriously disappears - conveniently the TIE they stole just magically gets sucked into the sand. Poe just magically reappears later with zero explanation. There is zero explanation for why anyone in any of those crapass movies did anything other than make loads of money for bad writers etc. Fin s character was the absolute worst - and that says a lot given the level of crap the movies sunk to - it was a bit weird for him to do everything! Because NONE of it made any sense. And it cant be a surprise because again the movies were total garbage. Trying to figure out any of the characters and why they did or did not do certain things - is a waste of time. Its all weird because the movies were garbage and the people that wrote and developed and directed them - were not interested in storytelling. Sold a lot of merch though. AND - I have no trouble with that. Nothing wrong with selling merch. If the movie or show is actually GOOD.

@@andrewa9895 well to be fair in storytelling it helps to have a PLAN/Rough-draft of what you want to do.

@@andrewa9895 Here’s my opinion is that the Sequels were mid if they were a standalone trilogy, but because it’s all canon and has to fit into the lore and just.. doesn’t it makes no sense in the universe that’s been established..

His defection from the order didn't make sense at all. Indoctrination doesn't work that way. He lived his whole life in that world. Trained every day with these people. It was his life. And yet the first sign of combat he freaks out and defects? And then is okay with killing his friends? You'd think he would be trying to contact his old friends and try to convince them to leave as well but that never happens. Poorly written character and a poorly written movie.

I mean, I also wouldve expected Anakin to not slice off count dookus head and go rougue, because anakin was a Jedi for his litteral entire life

And when you think this was probably the best scene of TFA and that TR-8R is better remembered than Phasma, that's saying something.

@@davidlacoste Ngl lie, I had totally forgot that Pasma character till u mentioned her

@@mariobarbosick How dare you! After all, "she gets to wear a chrome armor".

@@davidlacoste They even made him playable in Lego Star Wars.

irk like when you open up with Finn the concept that behind the mask these are just people, it makes it really disturbing how easily they kill storm troopers the rest of the movies.

We may not, he "died" in an accident. Remember? I don't.

We don’t need more of him. The scarcity is directly proportional to the value.

His story is complete, no need to bring him back.

Same 👍

😢😅😅😅😅😮😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊8😮09😅😢😢😮

I don't know if the policy of disney is that games aren't canon, but if they aren't, this scene canonized maybe not just operation cinder, but maybe all the events of the game

@@Praxus42 as far as I know, SWBF2 (2017) is canon and I'm certain Fallen Order is also canon.

What's the easter egg? Is Operation Cinder something that happens in a star wars game?

@@CurryFeatures battlefront 2 campaign. Basically AI palps tells the empire to burn planets with a bunch of lasers shooting from a satellite dish things from space. Kinda like a deathstar, same idea. Also similar to whatever the hell the first order tried in ep9

@@paveldatsyuk8268 nice one thank you :)

Still a one-sided characterisation. Stormtroopers laugh and chummy up, but when the orders come in, it's time to shut your trap and light some civilians on fire. Mayfeld being traumatised for losing his comrades is a good story to tell, but the military and police force of an autocratic state not being traumatised by what they had to do as stormtroopers still leaves a lot of unexplored areas that could use some attention, and add a lot of nuance to the story. People do need to be reminded that the Empire was more like nazi Germany, by the way.

@@moscanaveia i'd say it's much more like the Soviet Union than Nazi Germany. But then i don't take propaganda at face value.

@@Zathaghil The Empire was literally inspired by nazi ideology and aesthetics.

True to that, we always see the rebels pulling off something against impossible odds and them celebrating, but this time we see it on the other side and it makes them feel so human

@@moscanaveia they just brain washed lab kids who designed yo batle. i believe they have almost no knowledge about family and stuffs. from their prespective, civilians are all just simple asset to run their goverment.

Doesn’t help that his character went through exactly the same arc in two movies. Then the third movie he was kind of tossed aside as a side character.

NO. Omg how old are you? Dustin Hoffman is a good actor. Ben Kingsley is a good actor. This guy? Really? Dude what do you eat for breakfast… your thoughts come from the sewage

I feel like an effective summation of the sequel Trilogy characters is "exceptional potential ruined by direction and executive mandate" except Kylo Ren, who had radically different problems.

@@Jbs6187 do you actually perform any sort of critical thought, or do you just regurgitate what bags of shit you've been spoon-fed by people pretending to be angry for views?

@@nickmalachai2227 The potential for an ex-stormtrooper character is high. But that's precisely where it ended for Finn. The video hit the nail on the head when it said the escape scene was when his character ended. Rey might have been really interesting if they hadn't gone to such excruciating lengths to show us how strong and independent she was. What if... When she was in danger, she could run just a little bit faster. Jump a little bit higher and further. The junk salesman is really mean to EVERYONE, but with her... he's a little bit nicer. This isn't a world where ANY human child can survive. But she did. Because she's been using the force all along, and that's why she's so good with it. She developed it innately, out of necessity of survival. Perhaps it's getting too strong for her to control, and she doesn't understand what's happening, and that's why she needs to find a teacher. But no, can't have any depth, it was just sheer girl power or something. Oh look, let's just leave in the Millennium Falcon.

That would’ve made Finn too much of a main character, which is not what Darth Mouse wished for

@@dylannix4289 Darth Rattus

Damn that would have been 1000 times better.

I've said it before, but Finn is the most wasted character in the entire trilogy

Trevorrow's script was not quite finished, but where it took the story and the characters made sense. There is a great comics version of it on the net. Okay, the drawings are not stellar, but they do the job, and the story that came out of Trevorrow's script is so much better that what we got.

Bill Burr is just a good actor. You could’ve had that scene with any actor and had them recite the same script but nobody can play a sarcastic smartass like Bill Burr.

I did not know Burr did this and now I'm gonna watch the show

If you want scenes like that watch Daredevil on Netflix. The scenes where its just 2 people who hate each other sitting at a desk are the best scenes from that show.

The real spinoff we actually need. anything with Mayfeld!!

I know this could sound like anybody making the claim but my Dad's a vet, scarred... And yet this scene is what I could realistically see happening if he was in this situation. I've always liked Bill Burr as a comedian, and I've seen him in enough to find him a good actor, but this scene... Holy shit. I've seen these expressions on my Dad's face before.. And he... Got it..

Luckily JJ came back for ep9 to show us what defecting storm troopers do, they ride space horses

@@more-reasons6655 Truly riveting writing, definitely makes sense

@@more-reasons6655 That’s just sad. And worst off, it’s a moment that has no weight behind it.

Let's be honest aside from nostalgia all of the disney trilogy has very little weight behind it. The moments that seem to have weight have it because of the ot not because the movies the moments are in.

that's because Finn was first *put there to suit the poster* and then *given a background story* while Mayfield was first *given the backstory* and then *cast* Mayfield could have still failed if they had cast a different actor... his scenes wouldn't have had the same "punch" Finn would have still failed even with a different actor, because the character has nothing for the actor to interpret.

I disagree. We get way too much exposition lately. A beginners exercise in screenwriting is writing a scene, then striking out a line of dialogue one at a time from the beginning up to the point where you can't follow the scene anymore. You can hint at the past, explain little bits as they get important. Remember George Lucas had the idea of starting like it was an episode of an established series. Which allowed him to drop lines like "I fought with your father in the clone wars" without any explanation what that means. Same here. Answering all questions is not always better.

@@cl8733 I literally explained a scenario with no exposition at all wdym

@@honilock577 sure you know what "literally" means? Because "literally" you said "longer introduction" and "scenes with his squad".

@@Robert-ms2xs I totally agree. Which is why it is bad writing. But there is no longer introduction needed to fix that, just write him consistently and honour that backstory later. Which is what they never did.

Ddddffggggjkklllltu try y r dr Edit: I think my 2 year old typed this while I wasn’t looking but ima leave it cuz it’s funny

did you not listen to the video or watch the show? he shot the officer for his flippant attitude about a traumatic battle where a lot of his comrades died, not to cripple the base. It was an action based in emotion not logic

@@alexkamrow7901 the shot I was referring to was the one to the ore transports as they were flying away. Please re read. My point was that after he kills the old CO, they were fighting continuously, until they got on slave 1 and Mayfeld made it a point to cripple the base as a final FU. That was when Din finally had a sec to recalibrate his opinion.

@@alexkamrow7901 You might want to read the comment you're criticising, especially if you're going to use language like "did you not listen to the video or watch the show?"

@@alexkamrow7901 Hey! I'm almost certain you've seen the replies to your comment. How about, instead of hiding, you give some closure to your blunder and apologize. Few things boil my blood more than someone who makes a mistake and just vanishes when they're called out without at least a "my bad".

Partially... TV has more time to develop characters than movies and the tv show was for adults, not kids like the films.

@@nathanstender1124 bad argument. Entertainment shouldn’t be looked at that way, age locked and dumbed down. Shouldn’t we want our children to experience good story telling rather than bad storytelling anyways? Their minds are sponges. Let them absorb good things rather than just mush. Also, 2 episodes compared to 3 movies. The movies had more time in this context. Just a bad stance to have, a poor excuse all the way around.

@@shaneyy__ I am not saying it should be, I am saying that is how they were made. I agree with you. The worst parts in all of star wars is the kid-centric. I disagree about the movies had more time than the episodes. IF Finn was a main charact and his development was integral to the overarching trilogy (no matter how poorly it was constructed), yes they would have had more time to do it but he was a secondary character at best and didn't matter to the plots of any of the movies. This is Rey's story and Ben Solo to a lesser extent, and he has little to do with it. They really don't have time in movies to get into non-primary character archs. Mayfield is arguably the main character for 40 minutes (or however long the episode is) and has the time to give depth to the character. That is why tv has better writing in general.

@@nathanstender1124 1.) Finn objectively has more screen time. 2.) That’s the critique. Finn wasn’t made the centerpiece, he was made a centerpiece. That doesn’t suddenly excuse poor writing. 3.) By your logic of Mayfield being the main character for “40 minutes”, Finn and Poe are the main characters in the opening hour of TFA… so… again… more main character time. This is a poor argument to have and has no bearing to stand on. Abandon it.

@@shaneyy__ Finn is literally the viewpoint character for a majority of TFA, and far from being a 'side' character is essentially the co-protaganist and is in fact the driving force for a great deal of TFAs "plot". In comparison he has more screen time and dialog than Leia in the original Star Wars. And no one would argue she wasn't a main character.

Mayfield performed exactly how he was suppose to. Excellently written character.

@@LordHollow A shame that characters like Cara Dune, Fennec Shand, Greef Karga, and especially Moff Gideon couldn't do the same, because S2 was more concerned with Grogu cuteness than actual character development, like S1 was. I kid you not, IG-11, Kuill, and (to an extent) Peli Motto were the only other side characters I cared about.

I feel bad for him they really did him dirty playing the stereotypical funny black guy character. Then Disney turns around and touts themselves as being progressive or whatever would rather of watched a movie about him and Poes relationship those 2 on screen had great chemistry.

Rick Famuyiwa wrote that episode, it's Favreau and Filoni who keep writing Grogu-bait and Ahsoka-bait

I’ve always said Agent Kallus was the right was to do a disaffected Empire soldier

100% agreed.

Personnally The sequel have f-ckd up so damn BAD . That it is one case where I would not give a second chance . Burn it down and that's it .

Too bad Boyega won't get Disney Plus'd

Ummmm. Finns already fucked up 3 movies. Fourth chance?

No more chances for Finn. He had a whole trilogy. Damage done.

Think about it: during Republic, Anakin and his mother were slaves. During Empire, Luke was a free man and he considered going to the Imperial pilot academy to make a career, so even a farmboy from a backwards ass end of nowhere had some perspectives in life under Empire. So... was the Empire that evil, and was the Republic that good?

@@kamchatmonk there was still slavery under the empire. look at the wookiees

@@STONKS0897 No one's saying the Empire was all good. Just that the Republic wasn't much better. It was thoroughly corrupt, unfair, and falling apart.

Yeah, that guy was phenomenal.

The Empire improves every system it touches.

And Pascal too. That dude was essentially just sitting there during that scene but his emotions helped us feel it.

Yep, it gives perspective on the kind of people who are part of that system, and why they might persist even after the collapse of it. This was something that was sometimes explored in the Legends books too.

Richard Brake does a quality bad guy 😄

I liked the hard southern drawl he had in the episode instead of the typicial British/Core accent most Imperials had even though it wouldn't be difficult for have him be British as Richard Brake (you may know him better as Joe Chill in Batman Begins or The Night King in seasons 3 and 5 of Game of Thrones) is Welsh.

"villainous but never over the top or camp" - which you can't say to Hux.

@@Sekir80 Hux had that terrifying nazi vibe in TFA and then they turned him into a joke. And then they had the guy who committed massive genocide on an entire system change sides and become a “hero” for five minutes before being unceremoniously killed by who Hux should’ve been.

I hope they bring back Bill Burr in season 3. He has a pretty good arc.

Small things like that would have made too much sense for disney. Can't have that, now can we?

stuff like that blurs the line between 'good guy' and 'bad guy'. and we cant have that kind of nuance in star wars. The good guys must ALWAYS be good and righteous with no corruption or inequality whilst the bad guys must be over the top bad guys so that killing them in any and all circumstances is a celebratory action. dont want the smooth brains thinking too much

@@VergilArcanis apparently.

@@Roamingeast we can’t have that in Disney Star Wars*

Like Rex and Ahsoka at the end of clone wars. They explicitly fought their way free of the ship stunning everybody, knowing they were being shot at to kill.

Disney obviously wanted to play it suuuper safe and they sacrificed a potentially amazing character moment for a gag

you expect disney to write a capable story that's not unicorn and rainbows? Only the folks in dreamworks has the magic nowadays, the rest are just corporate slave pumping out the next big thing.

@@HungPham-qq6me not to justify Disney, but I think it's a problem of the big and popular movie franchises overall. They usually start as a bold, but well done ideas, the audience gets hooked and wants more, and then it goes only downhill from there, as the fear of losing audience makes the studio/the corporation to repeat what has already been done in order to play it safe. The writing becomes repetitive, the plot holes become more obvious, etc. And honestly IDK how this can be averted, except by not being all about money.

@@GalaxyGal- yeah, and that's kind of a shame, because the characters themselves have a lot of potential to be much more interesting. Rey fighting against her darker urges and bonding with Luke because of being an offspring of a powerful Sith Lord, learning how Vader chose redemption and applying this knowledge to her relationship with Kylo, Finn re-evaluating his life experience and having the empathy for stormtroopers, seeing people behind the armor and helmets, maybe helping more of them to defect, etc. It could be awesome, but we've got what we've got, with BB8 and Porg's design being the only good and memorable things in the trilogy.

Yeah! If it was taken seriously and said in a more angry or even sad way, it would've worked!

This is the exact reason tropes exist. It allows writers to convey much through use of established concepts, and then either chose to deviate from that, or double down. Tropes are important to writing, but some people conflate tropes and cliches

It makes me happy to see people referencing schnee in other videos, an extremely underrated channel for sure!

Yes, it’s violations of the believable that are half of what’s broken about the so-called sequel trilogy, and “strong female characters”, in the incessant subterfuge Darth KK meddled in these films.

I'd say that's more why Mayfield asked Din if theres a difference Always wear your helmet or never show your face Stormtroopers are identified by their helmet and should always wear it. While Mando shouldn't be identified so he doesnt show his face Thanks for your point because its helped me realise the difference that Mayfield was talking about

Funny that, even though Lucas was always flamed by most film critics back in the day for making Star Wars movies that were just fast-paced action with no redeeming qualities, we somehow knew all his characters very well even after the first movie, while the characters in the Disney movies are still a mystery even after an entire trilogy.

It's because they didn't care. They flat out just didn't give a damn

Man, that is so true... and so sad! They had a red carpet in front of them, the whole fanbase just waiting, and they managed to shit all over our expectations and their own franchise. The Disneylogy was such a clusturfuck of clumsiness...

Not even overnight. Literally, the next scene after his breakdown, he's doing a prison break and shooting at his fellow stormtroopers.

Yep, this makes no sense. He should be a pacifistic type of character who rejects violence because he knows both sides of the conflict, so he doesn´t see just the faceless, nameless cannon fodder.

you people are missing the point. He has so much hate and distrust towards the first order that he renounced them and had to kill them for his survival and the Resistance's survival.

@@ARandomInternetUser08 That's some cope

@@Walamonga1313 and what's that supposed to mean?

“Black main cast character. Check. Interesting story? Doesn’t matter as long we check the black main off the list. Shoehorn in a gay kiss in the background. Check. Care about being called out for hypocrisy? Doesn’t matter.” Disney boardroom, probably.

I’ve always said Agent Kallus was the right way to do a disaffected Empire soldier

To be fair, they had to do that or the Racists in China wouldn't watch the movies.

​@@shadowofhawk55 though the people who are completely against other races in china are way lesser than the americans who are completely against the chinese

@@upisntdownsilly The Chinese as an ethnic group or the Communist Party that is genociding the Uyghurs and has a fire wall up to control internet traffic in and out of the nation?

I agree the writing is bad (Except TR8R, he was the best character in the ST) But I really gotta say Stormtroopers in TLJ look so good! (And yes, if you didn't notice...their helmets changed a bit in TLJ) My favourite Trooper designs Sadly the First Order was done dirty. It had potential 😔

Leia ignoring Chewie for a stranger fucked me right off lol

Stormtroopers are immedeatly promoted to sharpshooter when they manage to hit an enemy

@@joseocasio3740 I genuinely cannot tell if that's a joke, or if that is a totally believable situation for the Empire. God knows they valued quantity over quality.

Hear me out, a series or movie with Cobb Vanth and Mayfeld.

@@DragonmanX90 Just like TIE Fighters don't have shields or decent maneuverability because the laser spitting pilots are expendable, I suppose Stormtroopers are just a show of force in large numbers who are easily replaceable too. Maybe the Empire should've tried training them a bit better then the Rebellion wouldn't have succeeded. Luke was right, Palpatine's overconfidence was his weakness.

I feel like they will do something more with him.

He didn't die, though? He did the thing and Cara Dune "never saw him again afterwards wink wink."

@@apollolux r/whoosh

@@callmedaddy225 Don’t be that guy lol

@@apollolux It's a shame, really, that he died in that explosion. =]

If memory serves, they just left Mayfield on the planet and reported that he died so he could have a fresh start with no "Imperial Entanglements"...

Instead what we got from Finn was a strange three step plan 1. Dont kill innocents 2. Leave the first order because all stormtroopers were kidnapped as kids and forced into this life 3. Kill stormtroopers

@@more-reasons6655 💀

The stories of not the good guys or the Jedi but the outcast and forgotten..

The problem of keeping it light for kids. If it was darker and written as a man trying to survive by any means necessary then those actions are earned.

@@nathanstender1124 I get your point, but the other trilogies WERE for kids but didn't have all these problems.. The problems here were far deeper than just kiddifying it imho. There was no consistent plan for the story at all.. let alone the characters.

​@@aetoski8724 That is a common misconception. Revenge of the Sith was rated PG-13 unlike all the others for a reason and the original trilogy was PG but by the standards of the 70's/early 80's. I have some scenes for you to look up on youtube if you disagree at least on the original trilogy being targeted at older teenagers and young adults instead of kids. 1. The interrogation of Leia 2. The cave scene on Dagobah 3. Jabba's Rancor scene 4. Leia, Jabba's concubine 5. Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru burned.

@@joshbull623 I don't disagree with anything you're saying there, but the big problem wasn't it being not as dark.. it was no consistent story. They still could have made a good trilogy that was less dark but compelling. They didn't do that. It was always gonna be more child oriented with Disney... all their stuff is. But they've told tons of good stories within that limitation that adults like too. And GL has said many times the movies were for kids.

​@@aetoski8724 George Lucas has indeed many many times insisted the movies were made for kids and you can dig up interviews from the 70's where he says this too, but the reality is two things 1. Actions speak louder than words 2. Artists control much about their work, their audience and reception isn't among them. Dig up the rough drafts of the original trilogy and they are even darker and slightly more mature than what we ended up with. The man can say it all he wants but it doesn't really matter what he says or his intent when his actions and creative process clearly went the opposite way. The prequels are a different story, I do believe he tried very hard with those to appeal to kids and not just older teens and young adults regardless of how crazy the last one ended up(killing children, choking out a pregnant woman, decapitating a helpless and defeated foe ect ect). I agree with what you are saying about the sequel, the issue wasn't that it wasn't as dark or gritty but as you said was inconsistent and an incoherent version of a story we already got. Rebels and Bad Batch are a perfect example of what could have been, both are lighter animations by comparison to the movies, targeting primarily kids and yet they are phenomenally well received and rated even by adults and critics. Instead of retelling what we know with a different coat of paint, they tell new and interesting stories and to Disneys surprise, it is what people want.

so many letdowns in the sequels. Finn was def one of the biggest. one of the cringiest for me was when lando took a week/ a few days (cant remember) time and showed up at Exegol with a rebel fleet the same size as the imperial fleet that had over 1000 Xyston class star destroyers crewed by sith cultists and somehow, that imperial fleet didnt even bother fighting back too hard, probably because they were in awe of the sheer organizational and logistical masterpiece that is Lando Calrisian convincing the entire galaxy to fight at exegol within just a week

They did our boy dirty.

If you ever served you would know how leadership, with rhe power they have, make or break the team beneath them. Even seeing a b*ttkissing pos get promoted before you despite failing in every other way erodes your trust and makes you feel callous. Let alone seeing good men die under the leadership of such pieces of.

Karen Traviss' Clone Commando series was fantastic for that. The series humanized the clones to a phenomenal degree, as well as being just darn good military fiction (as well as superb Star Wars fiction). Sadly, it never got finished because Disney bought out Star Wars and threw the entire EU into the trash.

What kind of medical waiver did you get, because you can join the military with autism

@@Maria_Erias This. I loved that series

Even throw in the line "I don't want to hurt/kill you"as he's swinging the lightsaber. Something.

Or imagine Finn and the black girl in TROS infiltrating in the Star Destroyer and convincing Stormtroopers to riot against the First Order. After all, those were child soldiers.

@@fm_0523 Yep, something more than the most basic backstory that's dropped the moment he leaves the First Order. I don't think they will ever do it but if Disney ever retconns the squeal trilogy I wont object one bit.

Hahaha x-wing cannon go pewpew

That scene was already epic, but that that would have made it even more so.

I know right? From the get go the movie left a bad taste. Honestly I don't even mind Jar Jar, he's just supposed to be dumb and mostly useless. Whereas Finn looked like he could've been an interesting character, but he was relegated to being dumb and mostly useless.

This could still work if he was bullied by everyone. Not only the high ranking officers like Phasma but also by the regular troopers. But there is no explanation why he has a mental block against killing the villagers but has no problem to kill people he served with.

you people are missing the point. Those aren't his fellow troopers anymore. They are evil people trying to kill them and operating on starkiller base. What would he do? Say "no, I feel bad for them, let's not kill them and let starkiller base destroy countless worlds?...🙄

@@ARandomInternetUser08 I think you are actually the one missing the point. You're trying to say that the point is that the First Order are the bad guys now so Finn has to kill them without remorse, which is boringly simplistic and entirely ignores the video we just watched above. The actual point is that those were people that he used to work with who are brainwashed into following orders, so why is he so happy to mow them down? People don't magically lose empathy for who they used to work with even if they become the enemy, that's not how human emotion works. He can still do what needs to be done by blowing up Starkiller Base, but he also needs to feel conflicted, otherwise, yes, he does in fact come off as a sociopath.

@@RayramAureanBlue I'm not missing the point

​@@ARandomInternetUser08 If you didn't miss the point, then you should understand that no one is saying he shouldn't help his own survival and the resistance, just that Finn needs to feel inner conflict for doing so when his former comrades lives are being taken.

Wait Jan is asian? I never even realised…

@@themanwhowouldbebrick It's hard to notice on 90's and early 2000's video game graphics but she was played by an Asian woman in the Dark Forces 2 live-action cutscenes.

@@vetarlittorf1807 oh I see, I never noticed that since I only played outcast and academy.

Well, to be fair, Rose was likely supposed to do more, but they had to cut her off in TRoS due to some toxic people hating on her for no reason.

@@eeveeofalltrades4780 The character wasnt very good in my opinion. She was poorly written and came off really bad. The actress however didnt deserve the hate she got. If she got any at all. There are people that say she did but i havent see any evidence of that. Her closing her Instagram account doesnt count in my opinion. Rose just didnt come off as a likeable character to me. If you liked her cool

That's a great way to put it! You could feel the weight of a lot of stuff that went down without even having to see any of it.

@@brandonmshrock Why, thanks man! I appreciate it. It's just such good writing on display.

I'm pretty sure Burr said he was just reading the script, a lot of veterans wrote into his podcast telling him he nailed the part and the attitude a lot of vets hold towards their time in service and in combat zones, but he bassically just passed the praise to the writers saying something like "I didn't do shit, I just read the script" I think he's just naturally of that opinion though, like that part talking about those events in the way he did is Bill Burr but with more combat induced trauma.

@@sirspamalot4014 Even if it was just reading the script, it's a testament to both the writing of the show, and Bill Burr's ability to act that they were able to convey that scene. He nailed the delivery and behavior needed to make his lines feel real.

@@sirspamalot4014 "I didn't do shit, I just read the script" Okay, that is totally a Burr response. That is so what he would say. Still, he acted the shit out of it.

Yeah man, the scene where they drive over the bridge with all the troopers coming out to cover them and then when they're congratulated and saluted gave me chills for some reason, i always hated how movies treat the opposition as if they're mindless goons.

And then they proceed to likely kill all those troopers by blowing up the transports.

Stormtrooper turned jedi would've been so good. The scene on Jakku literally was the force awakening in him.

Ikr?? Imagine him going through that journey, defecting from the Empi- sorry i mean the First Order. Finding out hes force sensitive, seeking out Luke for training , a threat/enemy to Kylo Ren, a storm trooper turned Jedi that would have been fucking amazing. If only we could’ve gotten that. My man was done so dirty. :( John deserved better

If you think Mayfield was done "so well" you are tripping. He literally complain that stormtroopers weren't treated as more than a resource, with no value as human life. Next act, he scape and kill thousand of stormtroopers with his sniper with no need to do that at all, just to send a message to the empire. What a joke of an arc.

@@lefraunhofer8869 he wasn't perfect, but Finn never even had the regret scene.

@@TheHegetzu Yes, they are both shit.

It's controversial, but some scholars who study war assert that most soldiers in most wars intentionally miss when shooting at the enemy. The US Army revamped their training methods to specifically address this tendency.

But then Rogue One doesn't make sense. That was the first time that I really took storm troopers seriously and was even a little scared of them.

@Elisabeth Tommasi In A New Hope, Princess Leia said the Empire let her and her friends escape the Death Star in order to track them to the Rebel Base on Yavin 4. So, the stormtroopers were likely missing on purpose.

@@TheVeritas1 Hard to agree on this. Foot soldier storm troopers wouldn't have known about the plan/trap. Higher ups would have known and could have made moves and decisions to fulfill this. Few foot soldiers would put their lives on the line knowing it was a feint. Higher ups wouldn't tell foot soldiers a dangerous plan like that, one to telegraph that it is a feint, and soldiers don't like to be cannon fodder. Few foot soldiers would put their lives on the line knowing it was a feint. Unless there was mental manipulation and they are otherwise just robots following orders.

@@nathanstender1124 Rewatch ANH for Leia's line.

Didn't Ahsoka order him to stun? I'll have to rewatch it.

I think Rex would be able to kill a fellow clone trooper. If they were enemies of the Republic, he would do what he had to.

@@woerkntwerk5245 its been carefully reinforced that he would not, his loyalty was only to the republic, and although the empire is technically the republic, hes not loyal to the empire, whereas the clones who didnt have their chips removed were loyal to the empire, he still never kills his brothers who were fighting against the idea of the republic he was loyal to

@@revan0890 The only time he does is to stop them from opening the door and save Ahsoka. After that she insists on stunning and force pushing them because she can't bring herself to kill them. And even though Rex is ready to kill them to save their lives, the very thought of it (and the fact that there's nothing he could do to save them from the chip) brings him to tears. It's painful for him to know that one way or another, his brothers were going to die. So even though he knew he had to kill them in order to survive, he didn't want to at all.

Only on Ashoka's orders. Rex killed the first troopers to come through the doors.

Boy do I have some bad news about cobb vanth

@@MrDylanm842 Boy do I have good news about cobb vanth

@@gabehorn1007 HES ALIVE?

@@MrDylanm842 There's a post credit scene at the end of BoBF where is in a bacta tank about to get surgery

@@gabehorn1007 I didnt see it, bobf let me down so much that I didn't even bother waiting for post credits

True, but the alternative is dying

I feel like Mayfeld's characterization as "not a good guy" from earlier in the season helps to characterize him easily killing others. Unlike Finn, Mayfeld is a proper soldier. His scene highlighted a personal antagonism that contributed to his current "in it for himself attitude", but it also effectively generates some sympathy for him, without making it unbelieveable that he'd kill anyone who'd get in his way. Its simple but works.

@@awesomedavid2012 To piggy-back off of Jazz's post, there's also a stark difference in who those people are. Being in the empire doesn't automatically make you buddy-buddy. Finn killed the troopers on HIS ship, he killed troopers assigned to his group, he killed troopers he DIRECTLY served beside. All of Mayfield's friends are dead and gone, all of his comrades are gone, all of the men he served alongside were gone. So while yes, they were all part of the empire, the troopers in this base are no different than the rando new republic trooper on the prison ship, or any other rando person he's killed. They all had families and lives too. So it's clear that Mayfield cares about those he cares about, and is far more ruthless to those he doesn't. And a galaxy-spanning blanket of "the empire" doesn't suddenly make you a friend of Mayfield.

@@War450 also, the empire is gone, these are the remnants. if that guy is still in a storm trooper uniform, he's probably a dick.

"Lunch Trooper"... it seems an interesting specialization 🤔

Wiseass

No no no. You have it all wrong. Finn was never a brave guy. His "doing what was right" and helping to desttoy Starkiller Base was incidental to him just wanting to save Rey. He was a coward. (Source: The Rise of Skywalker Visual Dictionary). Yes, they retconned Finn's character arc to remove any redeeming qualities.

Mayfield sucks too. He is angry that Empire doesn't care about the lives of its soldiers...and then murders a hundred of them himself.

@@user-xx6vy9ri8p To be real, anyone still sticking with the Empire when they don't have to anymore made their choice. He got out and they could have too.

@@InfernosReaper Oh yeah, so much for talking about families and everyone just being a survivor to just "YOU CHOSE THE WRONG SIDE, DIE!" Lol...And...can they get out? Moff Gideon kills for less. By the way, in season 1 Bill Burr wanted to kill Grogu. He isn't really misunderstood good guy.

@@user-xx6vy9ri8p They obviously don't give too much of a damn about their families if they're staying with *the side that lost* living with outlaws. As for "Moff Gideon kills for less" yeah, sure if he can find them? Mayfield got out no problem. They could too, but *choose* to stay and do genuinely seem into what they're doing.

It's likely that during the writing process Finn was supposed to be the main character but Kennedy wanted a female lead, so Rey was given a more prominent position in the story. I could imagine Rey as more of a Han Solo type tough uncaring rogue that finds meaning in her life through helping Finn.

Mayfield sucks too. He is angry that Empire doesn't care about the lives of its soldiers...and then murders a hundred of them himself.

mayfield is only good because of this one scene after that they kind of forgot about everything

@@user-xx6vy9ri8p shooting others to survive is a thing, sacrificing your own troopers is another. Mayfield was in a life-or-death situation.

@@user-xx6vy9ri8p He came to hate what the Empire stands for, he doesn't consider himself a part of it anymore. It still isn't necessarily a reason to kill dozens (hundreds?) of troopers that way, but he wasn't in a right state of mind when he took these decisions.

@@Azerty72200 You can make same excuse for Finn - not right state of mind.

He should have acted more lite the Romulans from Star Trek.

Finn is more a young child soldier, who has never been in battlefield outside of training and panic when the battle starts.

@@zigurdur92 That still doesn’t explain why he doesn’t give a shit about the fellow stormtroopers he kills left and right.

@@austinjohnsen4430survival is a powerful feeling to kill people. Another interesting thing about him killing troopers in plane in Force Awakens’s escape scene, Finn probably felt he like was playing video game or Like drone soldier shooting people with drones. It becomes easier.

@@zigurdur92 It kinda just reinforces how Stormtroopers are still just faceless cannon fodder.

I know right?! I feel the same way. He's one of the only side characters in the show that's actually gotten some good character development.

Same here. I didnt like his wise ass at first but ended up liking him and more once he had a deep conversation with the Officer about stormtrooper life meaning nothing to the empire

Ahsoka Tano fans: “First time?”

I think that scene further humanized the actual troopers themselves and further demonized the officers. How many of those stormtroopers were just like Mayfeld? How many of them were suffering but not yet disillusioned? Probably a lot of them realistically. The officers have always been shown as absolute slimeballs

@@tubbyduck5317 Yo! Must be one of the reasons why they chose Dark Troopers to be slaughtered like that on the season ender. Also can you imagine if they were Human Troopers facing him like that? Yikes! All the dismemberments, bodies thrown like ragdolls, and the screaming in horror and agony will echo from the monitor they were watching from. Would have been a Horror Show.

@@SaladinVadik it really is just the Vader scene from Rogue One but with Luke

@@tubbyduck5317 The force Ghost of Anakin watching his son do a Hallway saber fight be like: Anakin: WOO! That's my Son! That's my Son! Obi-Wan: Ah, I remember when we did the same together during the clone wars.

This. Finn went from an apparent mental breakdown at the sight of his first battle to a comic relief within the course of a movie, let alone across the trilogy. It was a waste, especially when the initial ad campaign made it clear that he was supposed to be one of the main characters. He got major hype in trailers for The Force Awakens, he was the _first_ major character revealed. Shot of the desert of Jakku, and voice-over of "There has been an Awakening. Have you felt it?" and up pops Finn into frame, helmet off but clearly in stormtrooper armor. Long shot there, dramatic sequence of a group of First Order stormtroopers on a drop-ship priming for battle, giving clear signs that this dude in the first shot might be important. What do we see of Rey in the first trailer? Her flipping switches on her speeder and zooming off. Poe? Brief shot of him in the cockpit of his X-wing, before the shot goes to an external of a squadron of them. _Finn_ is the one that reads like the most important of the three. And yet, after all that clear traumatic response in the opening of the movie, of realizing he can't do what the First Order wants him to do, of making the daring heroic escape from the First Order's flagship after setting Poe free, he's just there to look stupid and cowardly. His willingness to fire on other troopers at least makes sense in that scene: they're trying to escape, they get caught they'll be lucky if they're killed, so it's do-or-die time. After that? The only time we see a fight that makes sense is him taking on Kylo Ren with the lightsaber. He has every reason to hate and fear Ren, and every reason to need this fight. That works. Unfortunately, it's a couple of scenes that make sense in a stew of bad writing I can only attribute to the fact that it's clear that a bait-and-switch was pulled somewhere along the line (post ad campaign, clearly) to position Rey as principle protagonist, which I felt was the much weaker choice...but it's entirely likely due to Disney's massive history of marketing solely to please their Chinese market, thus removing/minimizing things (including characters) that won't meet approval. So, write the black stormtrooper who becomes a hero down into the Jar-Jar Binks comedy sidekick role, elevate the incredibly generic-as-hell "strong female protagonist" archetype to main protagonist role. Stick her in creepy-ass gaslighting "romance" plot with the villain. Pit your directors against one another so that your second and third films are so full of each of them trying to crap all over what came before that there's no room for real plot. Profit?

@@Mokiefraggle You summed up how I feel. You explained it way better than I ever could. I couldn't organize my thoughts to save my life, but that's another story for another time.

Finn didn't need to be black... Poe could have just as easily. Their characters would have been just as weak due to the writing.

@@waltciii3 Poe or Finn, it didn't matter to them. They just wanted a black face on the covers.

@@LordHollow It shouldn't have been hard. There've been us blacks in sci fi for decades. Maybe Trek was better at that.

@@waltciii3 Trek was way better at that. Star Wars had never headlined a black man visually before.

@@LordHollow Lando was my man tho.