Jaffar on my first attempt on hector hard mode: "You seem to be doing well, imma ruin this attempt by dying."

My 1st playthrough, this was one of my favorite maps. It was so unique, and it’s where FE7’s story peaked. On my 2nd playthrough, Jaffar died turn 2 to a crit, and then Zephiel died by the time I was only halfway there. This map is fantastic when you get the right rng, and unfair when you don’t

This map is so reliant on RNG not screwing you over it's not even funny. Not to mention, Fog of War + siege tomes are a very cruel combo which shouldn't have been approved.

As a kid this map no joke gave me nightmares, not because it’s scary but I was 5 and thought this was the final boss it was that hard for me lmao

Another double-edged note about fog of war: Even if you have looked up a map or are on another playthrough, odds are you won't remember everything down to the tile. Good because it maintains fun, bad because on this map one misplaced unit and you're eating one Bolting too many or getting Maxime on your ass.

It's just a cherry on top but if you don't save a door key then the left rout takes an extra turn, and is basically unusable if you also lost Matthew

Battle Before Dawn is the number one reason why I would be hesitant to try an ironman run of HHM before I've cleared it for the first time. (The furthest I've gotten in HHM was ch 15. I want to try again to give it a serious playthrough sometime in the near future.)

I'm a bit late to this video, but I really love in depth map dissections like this. And this is probably one of the best ones, so I'd love to see more videos like this!

Why is maxime right tf there, and why does Ursula have bolting? Why does Ursula have bolting?

Easy fixes for BBD -- replace the swordslayers on the fighters with steel axes, and give Jaffar a second Killing Edge. That would remove an _enormous_ amount of RNG reliance. If the fighters have to get lucky to even hit Jaffar once, and he has a spare sword so him failing to get crits doesn't make him break it early, then you actually could rely on the green units. Not to mention, Zephiel would have a much better chance of dodging steel axe fighters as well, so that would delay the pressure put on him. That would allow the difficulty to be ramped up later in a way that's much less RNG dependent. Maybe some swordslayer fighters show up later as reinforcements, say, starting turn 4-5. Now you actually have a chance to do something about it, but it's still early enough that you really have to be moving to do it.

Until Dawn is painful for me because it's so close to being incredible. Story wise it's fantastic and the objectives in the map tie into the story wonderfully. Saving Jaffar and Nino is exciting as the player has probably grown attached to them by now. It encourages much more aggresive and exciting play than usual if the player wants to get all the chests and save Nino and Jaffar, let alone protect Zephiel. Like you said, the fact whether or not you win this map is completely rng dependent just completely ruins this map. It's so close to being amazing but falls flat on its face. It feels like it wasn't thorougly tested on higher difficulties.

The worst part is? This isn't even the first instance of the game potentially screwing over the player with an essential green unit dying without player control. In the desert chapter with Pent, they wyverns who attack him on turn 1 have ~30 hit on him, and if all 3 of them hit (slightly more than a 1/200 chance) Pent WILL die and you'll get a game over turn 1

This map COULD have been good, but my biggest problem is the fog. In his Plinkett Emblem series Mekkah made a good point that story wise, there is no reason for it to be FoW. Ursula turns off all the lights, even though that would be much more beneficial for the smaller group of Nino, Jaffar and Zephiel. But then gameplay wise, it shouln't be there either because Ursula's Bolting in particular is so cruel that a new player is all but guaranteed to die to it because of the Fog. Remember, on Eliwood mode she is in a different spot, you have an unpromoted Eliwood running around and Urusula decides to move at an arbitrary turn. All of that is besides tge fact that you can just die to RNG. Worth noting also that Nino has to talk to Jaffar for you to unlock Night of Farewells and Jaffar, but on my first playthrough, I had to reset after that Talk convo. Since getting that convo did nothing, I didn't do it again the second time around (or maybe it was the seventh or so time). I missed Jaffar as a result, and it also meant Sonya as a villain was unceremoniously disposed off in a cutscene. Frankly, I can't really think of a good implementation of FoW in Fire Emblem. It works in Advance Wars, because that game is built around multiplayer where both players have to deal with it, and there are mechanics like Recon units, Infantry on mountains having a lot of vision, hiding units in forests and captured cities also having their own vision. In short, it's an actual mechanic in AW, whereas Fire Emblem just kinda thoughtlessly slaps it in there.

Personally I love this map, the randonnes and chaos give you a sense or ungency that I enjoy a lot. I think this is one of the best and worse map ever.

I was looking at the staves at available before this map. It appears the player can get the Sleep Staff, the Silence Staff, and the Physic Staff, before BBD. Of these 3, I feel like the Physic Staff is the most important. Assuming you can use the Physic Staff on Green Units, you could use it on them to help keep them alive. The only other idea is to use Bolting against enemies that get close to the Green Units (Accuracy is only 60%, so that seems unlikely).

While this map is very much That One Level.... I actually do find this map to be kind of fun. It's a defence mission where you don't start near the point and thus have to rush there. You have a sense of urgency. That said though? I think the RNG is what really turns it into that one level - especially in Hector Hard Mode.

If I can give this map one thing, at least you can't auto lose on turn 1 like the desert map in this game, and it's not the worst FoW map in FE. (Spoilers for another game below) Being better than Thracia's 24x is the lowest of a low bar though.

They should've made Zephiel more durable by just copy pasting his FE6 stats. I don't care if it makes no sense, it would be very funny.

Ah yes I remember playing this map for the first time a few months ago. I was like "wait so Zephiel just dies? i wasnt even closeby" and getting a "ye that happens" was an experience. I cannot imagine beating this map without savestates, but all in all, I rate it a I HATE BOLTING/10

I generally enjoy a bit of unavoidable RNG cuz it means that even the most optimal plans will have a chance of running into issues that you must account for, giving repeated playthroughs fun variations. RNG level ups can make the same unit different, RNG hit chances and crit rates can make the same fights different, etc. However, these unavoidable RNG moments should be within player control. Players are incentivized to judge how to play in order to minimize these risks. When a vital objective can be RNG screwed, that's like your Lord having a 25% chance of dying randomly to a heart attack at the end of the turn. Actually, I liked your clever idea of desperately bolting enemies from afar to keep Zephiel alive because you can't reach him in time, but since that likely wasn't the intended way to keep him safe (not to mention I'm not sure how accurate your bolting is), that's not a point in this chapter's favor. If perhaps Nino were closer and had a bolting tome, then that'd be a pretty cool setup to give you that option, but as it stands now, nope.

This is my favorite chapter in FE7, despite all the issues it has. Like you said, it's actually challenging, and I really enjoy that aspect of it. I'm a little more forgiving of this because I'm biased though - Jafar and Nino are some of my favorite characters in ALL of fire emblem.

The most ironic thing about all of this? We went throught all this crap to defend.... the eventual villain of this story...

One of my favorite maps in the series. It has a LOT of issues, but for me it's always been so much fun to play. A few little changes could definitely improve it massively

Hero of the West is the time sensitive rush Battle Before Dawn wishes it was

Even on Eliwood Normal mode, this map still has many of these issues. Fog of war combined with a boss that can one-shot units from behind a wall make for a miserable experience playing through it the first time. Overall, I agree with you that this is an F tier map that should’ve been S tier.

Somehow i love the map, but it can be one of the most difficult or longest ones for me I remeber Jaffar retreating up and getting killed by Maxime multiple times. And Nino sometimes does get smacked around by the monk, and then she can run south and die to Ursula. Ursula sniping with bolting was also not great, because i did not know her range and position, i did put an recruited Nino in range sometimes oops. Going left on the map had me having trouble with the promoted enemies and Maxime, and Nino dying. Going right i did have trouble with the sudden hero first, and if you open the door and wait there (because of fighting the enemies as example) the armor knight will block you with the bishop behind him with can really slow you down if the door opener cannot really hurt the knight, or has bad res and gets smacked by the bishop. Going right you need to get to Zephiel before the merc, and you can bait the first merc, often just in time. But had instanses Zephiel getting hit and retreating down and getting in range of the enemies sooner, and they will go for Zephiel when Zephiel is in range

Maybe I got lucky. I never struggled with this map that much in terms of everyone surviving. Getting the items on the other hand was very hit or miss. Then again haven't played this game since 2010 and I don't really follow this game. So until last I didn't this map so infamous.

this is very interesting! i haven’t gotten to this chapter in fe7 yet. (i keep starting new playthroughs lol)

Oh yeah coming back to this, I had a few things going through my head regarding your ending questions I don't dislike Fog of War on its own. But it feels like Enemies don't really get affected by it the way Players do. I heard that was a problem AW1&2 had as well, till Reboot came out at least. Realistically they'd either bave Reduced Movement, or potentially get jumpscared if they run into your units, since that's how it is for the player. Not my favorite part. I think BBD can make sense story-wise as a Fog map. If you're gonna be covert, killing the lights can make it harder to defend Zephiel, or even yourself. Kill the lights, get your troops in, kill Zephiel, get out, etc. Makes sense. But, while I don't have the wisdom to really say What elements, it feels like some elements *really* shouldn't be included in Fog maps Effectiveness weapons for example, you gotra be careful where they're placed At Best. At worst, don't put em in. If there's a clue that there's, for example, a Fighter with a Halberd in fe8 ch.6, I missed it. That enemy's not too bad, but if Franz has a Lance while in that guy's range he's dead. In a Fog map. (Also why does he have an iron axe, it just cucks me out of the halberd 90% of the time) Also, it's tricky to place an enemy that's stronger than the rest. Using FE8 Ch.6 again, that mercenary on the bottom path. Idr if you can rescue drop to take the nearby forest Turn 1, but if he gets in that forest, killing him becomes a slog for anyone that isn't Seth. If it was a fighter for example, it'd still be a bit of a slog with the bonuses, but you won't need to gang up on him with more than 2 units If you can't tell, I don't think Victims of War is a Horrible chapter, but those elements definitely get on my nerves. Funny enough the hostages side objective is kind of easy, since I rush Vanessa over there ASAP, but that's probably also because I rush Seth to the boss to kill him & end the map And I guess a 3rd thing, using a different map. A combination of Heavy Terrain Penalties, Fog of War and Fliers/Siege weapons is a super fucking annoying combination. Looking right at you, Arcadia, with all your Wyverns hiding in order to gank me. Stealthier than my damn thieves thanks to the sandstorm, with FE6 enemies being pretty strong in comparison to fe7. (I swear I actually rather like fe6, feels fresh after 7&8) I hear HHM Living Legend is kinda like this, but you at least have Pent to help out, assuming he doesn't die

After watching, yeah the Green Unit reliance thing is like the 1 major issue I have. It's like fighting SMT4 Minotaur and getting Walter also things like Bolting in FoW are a pain

Blind, it's brutal, 100%. Play through 2 & beyond, the game is very much "before BBD" & "after BBD." Still, I love the story aspect of Nino and Jaffar fighting back, the side chapter if you recruit them, and the push of the map to use your best units and items to get all of the objectives done. Worst reset was definitely the Luna Druid critting Sain on the last turn when I didn't need to attack him 😅

I split my units and send a ~lvl10 Valkyirie Priscilla with an unlock staff and a chest key to the right side to get the rescue staff, and save zephiel. Meanwhile, i also send to the right side a ~lvl10 promoted Eliwood with a killer lance and a pure water to get rid of Ursula ASAP. Also send Hector to recruit Nino, and Raven to help with some of the enemies on that side. On the left side i usually send high mobilty units such as Sain, Lowen and Rath to take care of Maxime. And if the RNG gods let everything go accordingly, then the rest is taking care of the remaining units.

This is my favorite map.

The big problem with Fog of War in a game like this is that it doesn't really reward careful or conservative play as much as it rewards already knowing the map. In competitive games especially you can play around Fog of War because you kind of know what capabilities your opponent has, but how do you carefully play around the boss suddenly moving and shooting you with Bolting? You can't, unless you know it's there. So the optimal play is to lose to it once and then play around it afterwards.

Have yet to play HHM (only HM i've played is FE8) but on HNM this isn't... too bad? Not my favorite map but it's not super infuriating Yet But any time I think of Jaffar fighting Swordreavers, I shrivel up a bit

Too many times Jaffar died before I was able to open either doors

u can realiably rescu zephy on like turn 2 or 3 that's what i ve done on my iron man i find the map fun if not on iron man else i get so stressed out plus i always mess up the either the position of ursula or the turn she move.

Before watching this I unironically really like this map despite disliking fog.

feel like i had a completely different experience with how much danger zephiel actually is in compared to what you portrayed i rerolled bbd without fog a couple dozen times just to see what the enemies do, and the only enemy zephiel ever had to fight before turn 8 is an iron axe fighter, with a steel sword merc reaching him on turn 8, and the hero not getting to him before like turn 10, and that's even with jaffar getting hit immediately by both the first swordreaver fighter and the mage which caused him to retreat north asap i dunno, i think the rng aspects that jaffar/nino deal with are an issue but i've never seen reaching zephiel in time to be a problem

Im of the opinion that games like this should be fair to a first time player who doesnt know the gimmick. I dont think things like bolting or great luck should be needed to beat a map. I hate how im rushing the map and then an enemy who i cant see, didnt know was there, and had no chance to kill, can just 1 shot half my units. There is no strategy there. I really like the idea of this map, but when i have to restart it because jaffar decided to die and im just brute force learning its mechanics rather than dealing with them on the fly, then i think there is a problem with the design.

Honestly this map could be improved a lot if it just had the torches from Radiant Dawn and Engage littered about key locations to give the player a bit more information

This is my favorite map in all of fe7 tho!

I think I've only beaten this map legitemely once or twice. Most of the times I just end up using the torch glitch

This map gives me an excuse to use Isadora the Explorer. 5 paladins are great and this map solidifys that reasoning

Late *and i haven't played this game so take with a grain of salt)i know they aren't super good in gba fe but if you used a lot of foot units or armors then this map gets even worse as the described best turn arrials are for optimal paladins. If you didn't bring one then you got even less options and more rng to deal with

siege tomes in fow are just rude. being able to know their coverage is what make them bearable but not knowing ursula has bolting is one thing but when you have to deal with an army that has night googles or something and snipes you in spite of it it ends up feeling unfair for no reason

"strategy games shouldnt be completely out of a player's control". FE now- reinforcements that appear and move on enemy phase + way too many skills

Definitely some objectively flawed design elements (mainly rng due to green units), but it's still one of my favorite maps ever.

Honestly, the map is fine. The only issue I ever really have with it is occasionally Jaffar decides to do something weird and just fails to do his job as a distraction/bodyguard. All that's really needed is to adjust him so he does his job a bit more consistently. Hell, give Zekiel 2 soldiers to back up jaffar or something similarly minor could already be enough. Also you're complaint that you had to resort to spamming bolting with a dancer is kind of silly. You're doing a weird 0 bases run, of course things are going to be screwed up when you change something as fundamental as the base stats of every unit you have.

God, i remember being stuck on this map for 10 or 20 tries as a kid... it was just awful.

me: 'why does this map get so much hate, i remember liking it...' and then i remember that i played this game solely on emulator and i was _not_ in the business of keeping sram saves around which means what i played most was eliwood normal and then i'm like 'oh well that explains everything' lmao. im pretty sure that version doesnt even have fog? anyway i dont actually _mind_ when a game forces you to rely on units out of your control, and i'm a fog of war liker but that's an ugly combo when put together and fog with a siege tome in play? _shudder_ And not minding and liking are both very different things from thinking they're good lmao i like so much trash

I've defended this map many times and im still not really convinced. I would say the biggest issue is your whole premise is based on if you don't have "high level dance or rescue strats"(?), which you don't go really in depth what that means. At the point at the game you play BBD, rescue dropping and dancing should be pretty familiarized with the player. I'd understand if this was an early game chapter or something like that, but it isn't. So every time you say things like "the player has no control" or whatever, I believe you are basing it off a faulty premise to begin with. What I WOULD consider as "high level strats" that can't be easily intuitive to the player would be the rescue staff > convoy > rescue Zephiel trick. That employs a far deeper understanding of the game and its mechanics.

I don't think you can call Fire Emblem a strategy game when your strategy is "Use Rutger".

I think the positives far outweigh the negatives, and saying one potential issue flips it to F is extremely harsh. But I don't play Ironmans so I can see why it's hated by that kind of hardcore community.