Fix Debonded Giant Bottom Brackets

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Fix Debonded Giant Bottom Brackets

Рет қаралды 14,362

Күн бұрын

This is a Giant Defy with the Common Debonded Bottom Bracket Shell problem. This time it debonded and bought part of the frame with it. A classic line from mechanics is to just use Epoxy glue to stick it back in. This does not help with the bearing alignment or the correct diameter to help propper bearing function.
In this video I show you how I fixed this issue. Taking into account the expansion from the glue, and the concentricity of the bearings.
The repair worked out perfectly.
the Glue we use is called
Vuduglu from Easy Composites.
www.easycompos...
I would suggest picking up several nozzles as they are single use items.
When choosing a retaining compound consider the gap fill, viscosity and cure time of the product. the Henkel website will help.
www.henkel-adh...
The Bottom bracket used in this case was the Praxis M30 for BB86 to accept the Infocrank PowerMeter Crankset.

Пікірлер: 86

@thetravellingwhiteleys9594 Жыл бұрын

As a bike mechanic I love watching your channel. Personally I would be very apprehensive about tackling a repair like this. Kudos to you for taking it on

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Take your time, do your research, have the right tools, practise. Same as anything. To be honest, most shops would just glue this back in with off the shelf epoxy and call it done. It would probably function. The method in the video has probably produced a better result than the original though. Every day a schools day right?

@thetravellingwhiteleys9594 Жыл бұрын

@Mapdec absolutely. I had a customer bring me a Dolan frame last week that he wanted stripping down to send back as he was concerned the carbon frame was cracked. I stripped everything off except the pressfit BB as it wouldn't budge and I didn't want to invalidate his warranty by using too much force and causing damage to the shell. I'm assuming they had used a retaining compound on it. He's hoping they will replace the frame anyway.

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

@@thetravellingwhiteleys9594 good call. In my experience it will bonded in with excess paint

@Sirmellowman 5 ай бұрын

it sounds crazy to say but after how many years of established bike mechanic techniques this shop is still pushing the limits and still working out new ways of solving problems. you would think its all been done and figured out by now but clearly not in the slightest.

@becyk_du_quebec Жыл бұрын

Most bike shops in Canada would never do this kind of repair, amazing job and very well done, wish we had bike shops like yours here...

@timhall7771 Жыл бұрын

I (it's my bike) had a ~500 mile round trip to Mapdec to get this done. I, too, wish I had such a shop rather closer to home! Paul was amazing. Maybe I need to move house...?

@SrFederico Жыл бұрын

That what I was wondering about too... would any decent bike shop be knowlegdeable enough to do this? I had bike shops complaining about the complicated cable routing through integrated handlebars (which in the end I did myself and it was actually easy).

@848evo4 Жыл бұрын

@@timhall7771 wouldn't Giant just replace the frame? My TCR has a lifetime warranty on frame and fork, and that looks like a warranty claim to me.

@timhall7771 Жыл бұрын

@@848evo4 Quite possibly. But it did not occur to me that a 9yr old bike might still be under warranty. Also I wonder whether the bike shop that did the original (not very good) drive-side repair (and did so without asking me first!), might have voided the warranty by so doing.

@robertmcfadyen9156 Жыл бұрын

@@848evo4 Yes , Giant's local distributor would need to honour the client with a replacement frame to transfer the components onto . This repair is good but may not last long term as this video was only published recently .Time will tell .

@oftankoftan Жыл бұрын

Great job. I don't know of many LBS that would fix something like this. Or _could_ . I think it's a mark of a great mechanic to (almost) never say no to a job, even if the labor would maybe lose you some money. But you gain a customer for life.

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Thank you. There are jobs we get occasionally where I don’t have the skill and don’t want to pursue gaining it. Recent one was a Scott CR1 with a threaded insert that was just spinning in the frame and spewing white rust everywhere. That’s a job for carbon repair shop.

@felixjackson2670 Жыл бұрын

Good job. Have performed various Carbon Frame repair jobs and done properly,as you have done here..with careful precision and sometimes the help of websites regarding materials and application will be as good as new..ESPECIALLY in our throw away world where most folk do not have endless amounts of cash to simply buy another bike when things go wrong. Love your content. Thanks.

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Nice one Felix

@kevinfrost1579 Жыл бұрын

Nice to see great job Paul, thorough as always. Customer ought to be delighted 👍 Chapeau

@timhall7771 Жыл бұрын

Customer (me!) is very delighted. Paul is an absolute pleasure to deal with!

@dominicbritt Жыл бұрын

One very lucky giant owner!!

@MrDazP1adv3ntures Жыл бұрын

That looked like a well thought out and researched repair and your explanation was simple to understand. I do worry about my PF30 BB set up on one of my bikes where the bearing shells appear to be a bonded alloy insert like on this bike you featured. So far I have replaced the BB 3 times without any issues. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with us 👍

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Thank you. It would be very strange for PF30 to have bonded inserts. The big advantage of that design is that it gives so much space for a bearing carrier.

@JibbaJabber Жыл бұрын

One giant problem, one giant fix. Great fix👍

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Thank you.

@mike_f Жыл бұрын

Another great video. So wish I had someone in USA near me with such attention to detail and competence.

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Жыл бұрын

Always upvote light reaming

@dominicstockton7102 Жыл бұрын

Ah, that Voodoo glue is amazing. Got myself out of a potentially very expensive carbon steerer tube problem with that and an extra long expanding bung.

@NelsonSherry Жыл бұрын

It's really awesome having someone producing a KZfaq channel experimenting with and showing their work with some of the higher end type repairs that I enjoy exploring and doing. THANK YOU! Two thoughts: 1) As thin a layer of epoxy as used in slip-fit inert repairs, I've never been particularly concerned about expansion of the epoxy and have not found any measurable decreased circumference contributable to it. Have you found epoxy expansion to contribute to insert shrinkiage? 2) I was surprised to see you insert the fitting into the frame having shown to only put epoxy onto the frame surface instead of both the frame surface and the insert. I have always put epoxy on both surfaces to reduce the likelihood of any voides even though it does increase clean-up on the outside of the repair after the fact. 3) Excellent trick using separate inner and outter drifts for the bearing you don't have a specific drift for! 4) Great Loctite use and research tips! Again, surprised not to see you put the retaining compount on both inner and outer surfaces to minimize post-installation gaps in the "adheasive". Thanks again for an enjoyable and informative channel.

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Thanks. I am not a glue expert and I just take my advice from the experts, in this case a chat with easy composites. There needs to be a gap for the material to exist and do it’s job, hence sanding to a slip fit. If I left it as an interference fit, you just push all the glue out and are left with a weaker bond. I feel it also gives some slight wiggle room for alignment too. A step missing in the video was a quick spread of the glue with a zip tie. I don’t think adding to both surfaces would help. It wasn’t in the instructions to do so. I know it is for some epoxy glues. I think the expansion comes more from adding a layer of material than the actual epoxy expanding, I’m not sure the chemical properties etc. After gluing though there will be a tighter fit to contend with. Same for retaining compound. It’s a very light viscosity

@NelsonSherry Жыл бұрын

@@Mapdec Your point of making sure the joint has slip room instead of being a press fit is well taken! I was taught years ago that whether you are greasing a slip joint (or press fit for that matter) or gluing a slip joint, you always want to treat both surfaces to maximize the likelihood of complete joint coverage. Over the years, I have experimented with glued slipped joints that I have later taken appart, and there is no doubt that treating both surfaces can significantly reduce gaps in the glue. Imperfetions in both sides can hold onto a bit of glue that otherwise would become small gaps. I suspect there is a good chance that if you had treated both the frame and the insert in the above video, the gaps you observed would be noticably reduced if not eliminated. Heck, it may be that if both sides of the joint had been glued during the manufacturing there would be a more complete bond and the breakage would not have occured in the first place. Again, thanks for the stimilating content!

@caveboy9988 Жыл бұрын

Genuinely impressed. Love it! Most would have written that frame off.

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it!

@ArdGeal Жыл бұрын

Top job, I'm always wary of carbon frames and press fit, but good to learn something anyway and good tip about the loctite info!

@neilk22 11 ай бұрын

Brilliant work 👌

@Mapdec 11 ай бұрын

Thank you! Cheers!

@Bloodyfallsmassacre Жыл бұрын

"...Powermeter with a 24mm axle that actually works." Well... there are quite a lot. Stages, 4iiii, Sigeyi. I think the better point is that the customer actually got sold a 30mm axle in a BB86 and that this should definitly work without a hitch.

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

4iiii is a fair shout. They last forever.

@MS-bw7yt Жыл бұрын

@@Mapdec 4iii, Stages, even Giant has an in-house powermeter for Ultegra R8000. All pretty solid I think, although there are some reports out their off broken off power pods and damaged seals. I never had any problems with my own, although I still can’t get my head around, why Shimano is unable to offer a functioning solution for their cranks. Their current powermeter lineup is a joke...

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

@@MS-bw7yt the Shimano ones are a total joke. I have only come across a couple of giant ones. Compared to my reference fleet of Tacx neo they are slow to respond to surges, however the average numbers seem to work out.

@feedbackzaloop Жыл бұрын

also - said it once, going to again - there are 3-bolt direct mount powermeters, there are 24mm axle (be it GXP, Megaexo or even Shimano) 3-bolt direct mount cranksets. All it takes is some pen-pineapple-apple-pen magic

@pulser955 Жыл бұрын

Why would you not warranty this frame with Giant? And did you just void the warranty doing that repair?

@mikekelly1771 Жыл бұрын

Master class!

@paljasvonpinguin Жыл бұрын

Really nicely done, good video :) Since you ask about improvements; the drum and fingersnapping intro/outro is so incredibly loud compared to the rest of the video -- I'd love to see that audio level differential reduced ;)

@pab2611 Жыл бұрын

Great repair job 👌🏼, I with there where more stores with this level of craftsmanship. Regarding the 24mm axle cranks with power meter there are some reliable options in the market, the rotor 24mm + power2max Spyder for example also there are some options from sigeyi and xcadey coming from China, that's without mentioning single side options from 4iiii or stages..

@timhall7771 Жыл бұрын

When I got that power meter (it's my bike) in 2015/16 (I forget) there were far fewer options, but, more to the point, I was _given_ the power meter. So the somewhat more frequent need to replace bearings pales into insignificance compared to an Infocrank for free.

@MrGarycoww Жыл бұрын

Love it ❤

@manoftheroad55 Жыл бұрын

Loctite make a whole range of industraly approve bonding agents . Job specific .. not a ubiquitous " epoxy" title ..

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Correct 👍

@celynjones4958 Жыл бұрын

Any reasons not to use acetone or brake cleaner rather than IPA for surface prep? My guess would be that strong solvents may not play nice with carbon resin? Cheers and lovely job as usual

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Acetone would normally remove glues, but it would probably evaporate in time. Disc brake cleaners come in lots of flavours. Some are just pressurised IPA others have all sorts in. Also you can by IPA buy the litre super cheap.

@veganpotterthevegan Жыл бұрын

Magene, Stages, Sigeyi, and 4iii have a solid power meters that work for 24mm axles and they're all pretty cheap.

@timhall7771 Жыл бұрын

If anyone watching this knows a workshop doing similar level of really thorough and careful, diligent repair work in North London/Herts, I'd love to know please!

@Hambini Жыл бұрын

Athlete Service. Tell them I sent you.

@oftankoftan Жыл бұрын

@@Hambini Do I just enter the shop and scream "HELLU HAMBINI FANS"?

@Hambini Жыл бұрын

@@oftankoftan "I've turned up for a F**ing haircut, where's the hairdresser" usually works too.

@MrHuddy Жыл бұрын

How many hours labour did you charge for that? Even the tools you used must be quite rare to generate an roi.

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

90 mins. Tools are fairly standard except the micrometers maybe.

@jbkltc4469 Жыл бұрын

i don't think shot bearings and a worn out spindle are the best choice when it comes to aligning the bearing cup for glueing them in

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

What would you use instead?

@jbkltc4469 Жыл бұрын

@@Mapdec known good components (at least a new spindle) or you could even get a proper shaft made for this

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

@@jbkltc4469 umm. Maybe. I’m not sure how much better that would make anything. This repair is already better than the bike ever was fresh from production. There is a risk of glue overspill ruining fresh bearings. I don’t think the customer would be happy paying for a sacrificial set. The spindle just has a little anodising worn off. Not enough to misshape. If it were misshapen it would still have play. I guess it is always nice to be perfect, but there has to be a cost to benefit ratio to consider.

@raysmith2602 Жыл бұрын

Can you tell me why you didn't use activator with the loctite 641? Im not saying you should but i thought it helped when bondinf two inert surfaces

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Because it’s metal on metal (steal & alu) and they are not inert. An inert material would be plastic or carbon. They don’t oxidise. Great question. Hope that helps

@okantichrist Жыл бұрын

Is it ok to use a crankset with witness marks on the spindle?

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Depends if witness marks have become scars or misshapen.

@timtaylor9590 Жыл бұрын

no warranty?

@Bonky-wonky Жыл бұрын

You mentioned using ipa alcohol, like pretty much all instructional videos. Is there any reason not to use brake cleaner? To my knowledge it also removes all grease and grime. Interested to hear your thoughts on this..

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

It’s a lot more expensive than IPA. Also. Some cleaners have other stuff in.

@Bonky-wonky Жыл бұрын

@@Mapdec I read that some car brake cleaners have an anti rust additive that can actually make bike brakes squeel. That said I only have postive experiences with the Action (budget store chain in the Netherlands) brake cleaner, it doesn’t work any less than Motip or that ridiculously overpriced bike branded stuff. Costs around 2 euros for a 700 ml can.

@rafaeldegiacomoaraujo8778 Жыл бұрын

IPA is mega cheap

@pulser955 Жыл бұрын

Why wouldn’t you warranty this frame with Giant? And did you void the warranty with your fix?

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

It’s a pain that the owner didn’t want. Find the original receipt, send it away etc. Also the fix is that a Giant store just ‘epoxy it back it’ without any thought given to alignment or bore size.

@chrisscott558 Жыл бұрын

This is why I hate press fit

@universe-juice Жыл бұрын

Im considering moving to where ever the hell your at

@Mapdec Жыл бұрын

Kendal. Gateway to the Lake District 🚵‍♀️

@universe-juice Жыл бұрын

@@Mapdec 👍have bikes, will travel

@steppings5645 Жыл бұрын

Just North of Whitesiles :-)

@DM-hw4cr Жыл бұрын

PF bottom brackets need to dissappear .

@borano2031 Жыл бұрын

No, they only need to be manufactured within tolerances. Rgr

@paronetti6192 Жыл бұрын

this fanboy cannot make a single video without mentioning Hambi

@MS-bw7yt Жыл бұрын

Like Hambini or not, at least he is doing some good engineering. 99% percent of the bike industry is too stupid or just not willing to do a bare minimum of engineering…

@markrushton1516 Жыл бұрын

Good or bad Hambiniis setting a standard and spotlighting the poor quality control in the bike industry. 're the power meter is not better to go for the Garmin pedal type or is that a pricier option? Also subject to what pedal system you have

@paronetti6192 Жыл бұрын

@@markrushton1516 100% right