Yes... but how dose it actually work??? How exactly are the Specs??? It is not shown here!!!

@@StarLink85 It works like this: 1) Solar panel captures electricity from the sun 2) The electricity from the sun powers a motor which spins a large heavy flywheel. This converts the electrical energy into mechanical kinetic energy. 3) The sun goes down. 4) You turn on the lights in your house 5) The lights in your house creates a load on the motor which was used to spin the flywheel. 6) The motor then begins to function as a generator and the stored kinetic energy in the heavy spinning flywheel turns the motor to generate electricity which powers your lights. 7) The flywheel slowly decelerates as its mechanical kinetic energy is converted back into electrical energy 8) Sun comes back up 9) Solar panel starts spinning the flywheel faster again 10) Repeat

@Chris Russell Literally everything wears out. :P 1) These kinds of mechanical batteries experience very little wear because they use magnetic bearings so there's no physical contact between the bearing surfaces. The life span of this kind of battery is measured in decades not years like conventional batteries and the charge capacity of a mechanical battery doesn't degrade over its life like a conventional battery would. 2) Pumped hydro works great if you have a lot of water and if you have hilly terrain in which a reservoir can be constructed. That isn't the case everywhere. 3) There's no maintenance bottleneck with these kinds of batteries because there would be dozens or hundreds of them and you could take individual batteries out of service as needed without disconnecting the others. 4) This kind of battery is inherently less dangerous than either conventional batteries or pumped hydro. There's no risk of dam failure and there aren't any hazardous chemicals which could get into the water table. I for one don't want to have to figure out how to recycle thousands of tons of lithium. The way they handle the potential for the battery "exploding", as you put it, in the case of the flywheel losing structural integrity, is by placing each battery in a concrete tube below ground level. This both helps absorb any vibrations during normal operation and also safely contains the battery in case of failure. 5) These kinds of batteries can be manufactured out of non-toxic materials. 6) These kinds of batteries can be used EVERYWHERE regardless of how much water is available and regardless of whether the terrain is hilly or not.

@Chris Russell Hello Mr. Cris / Speaking of harmonic speed you mean: average harmonic speed?

@Chris Russell This clip is from 2010. There is a discussion about reliability here. So, does any one know how they performed since 2010?

www.powermag.com/beacon-power-makes-a-comeback/ claims 25kWh (which I make to be about 90MJ). They don't show their working though ;-)

Sorry, I'm afraid your calculations are all off. You need to be thinking rotational kinetic energy not linear. There was nothing stated in the video that would give you the required rotational moment of inertia or angular velocity.

Most of the flywheel systems are used for grid frequency regulation. You need just 30 minutes of storage, and sometimes just few dozens megawatts available, to stablize the grid. This way you can save a lot in production actually. It is unlikely to find uses in residential systems or as more long term storage. Amber Kinetics flywheel can produce 8kW for 4 hours (32kWh). Friction losses are about 96W. Which is not bad. So, it can to some extent augment a battery system, as the price could be potentially lower, and they can last 30 years. I.e. instead of using 100kWh of LiFePO4, one would do 70kWh of LiFePO4 (which one would need to replace every 10 years), and this 32kWh flywheel, and priotize consumption from flywheel. I.e. if the system is mostly solar, to store excess in battery until it is mostly full, then in flywheel (i.e. when we know the end is ending, and even if the battery is not full, to limit the battery cycling, which limits its life span), and when the sun goes down, use the one from flywheel first. Or import electricty from the grid in the very early morning (before the sun, but when the electricity in most grids is cheaper), and use it for few hours before the sun goes up for solar to kick in. The question is exact pricing. PS. Amber Kinetics M32, is 2000kg steel rotor. Entire assembly is 4500kg, and for safety done underground. Round trip efficiency is about 90%. Which is not bad, and similar to most lithiun-ion battery systems (some are less, some are more, depending on exact chemistry and charge/discharge currents used).

Any Idea How much it is cost?

You are using Norway as a gigantic hydroelectric battery, no real need for storage unless you produce more than the wires to Norway can handle.

@@zapfanzapfan Norway is a long way away, even with plenty of hydro, 1600km of wires to Denmark is not optimal. Flywheel storage is for intermediate peaks, not hoursor days later, which is what is needed with wind power. pumped hydro is better in that respect. However Denmark is rather flat, so what has been suggested is using our salt caves as pressured air storage.

***** I thin you have that backwards. Theres much more energy available during the day. The idea is to capture as much energy as we can from the sun and wind during the day hours, to use it at night. That's the only time I personally need energy storage.

@@bugs181 wind power is the same at night. But the power usage is bigger in the day. Hence why you would storage excess power in the night. DOH.

@@nikolaiownz that only applies to wind power. Most people are probably using solar cell technology of some sort. Loads of power generated during the day but as soon as you lose the sun, night time is where you need energy on demand from storage. If you want practicality, this is also why electric companies offer discounts for night. Because there's less energy generation AND demand from night scheduled hours. There's a reason why the Tesla power pack knows to get energy from the grid at night and use it during the day. ;)

I'm curious how a Massachusetts company got coverage from "New York Now" TV show! Tyngsborough is close to Boston, it's not a western Mass town that might be better served by WMHT instead of WGBH.

and that was all about - to get as much investment money as possible and dissapear:D:D:D in EU you can "steal" public fund in the same way using eco-terrorists moaning uuhhhh climate change, give us 100millions and we will develop a better solution (and some how very expensive at the same time):D:D:D:D

Haha... but it's 10 years of research...

it eventually went bankrupt then acquired. RGA currently owns them.

I don't know about this particular company, but the technology is currently being implemented already

Probably more stress on the outside

@Chris Russell , water evaporates. Also, pumped storage has 70-80% efficiency. Where as flywheels have 85-95% efficiency. Meaning for every 100 kWh we put in, the water gets 70-80 kWh back, while the flywheel gets 85-95 kWh back. Lithium ion batteries have 99% efficiency. But also cost a lot more to make and have a shorter shelf life. www.mpoweruk.com/alternatives.htm

@Chris Russell , Sure, and I hate nuclear when it explodes catastrophically. But focusing only on the _possibility_ of a failure just sounds like fear mongering. Also, water pump batteries (aka: Dams) are HUGE because they have very low energy density. Flywheels have far better energy density. If you're dead set on using gravitational potential for energy storage, I'd sooner vote for metal slabs on pulleys than to use pumped water.

advantages are no chemicals, cheap build materials and no enviromental hazzard.

From $0.34 I share to $6 a share in 7 years is wonderful

My thougts exactly, hurtling frogs at walls at mach speeds buddy!

flywheel is a supplementary technology at small scale.

⚡

Мне как-то рассказывали, как при испытания механического гироскопа раскрученный маховик вылетел и стал скакать по комнате. Доску стола из ДСП пробил насквозь. А массой он был меньше килограмма, грамм 200-400.

при разрыве и стену бетонную может пробить

If you work with flywheels, you are the guy who should know the answers instead of asking random people on the net.

Why would they use mechanical bearing though?

These are used for rapid frequency regulation.. Multiple units allows for more consistent frequency matching.

You are actually wrong. energy content increases faster with speed than mass, so bigger flywheels store less per kg! The optimum is a double cone shaped flywheel with the flat side against each other made from a single strand of carbon fiber, which can attain speeds on 100 of thousands rpm.

Don't think they are going to really go off center so easy considering they are giant tops.

@@ConceptHut they said in the video, the walls are made to withstand a failure and stio the movement.

capoman1 What keeps us from: Costs. Suppose, you wanted to store 10 kWh: This would be roughly the potential energy of 360 metric tons elevated 10 meters. Or 3600 metric tons elevated 1 meter. Imagine, what big and powerful and expensive system you would need for this! And you could store the same energy in 20 simple cheap car batteries. Probably even with higher efficiency.

Thomas Schuster Good points. Just one point you missed. The maintenance comparison on each system. Essentially the weighted system would last forever, whereas a "cheap car battery" would need replacing every 15 to 20 years. Probably less.

bugs181 It certainly wouldn't last forever, you have to obtain the stored energy somehow and that would involve some kind of mechanism which would wear out.

idontcare80 That's why I said essentially. Every system, no matter how perfect requires maintenance. It's just the way things work. Things degrade over time. My point still stands about conventional batteries needing replaced more often than a system that doesn't because of the metals that deteriorate due to chemical reactions.

capoman1 There are systems like that, but they are not very economical... Having something fluid, and pumping it up and down is much more efficent and last longer... ... and its very common, called a pump-power station. Exist just about everywhere.

42

Just seeing ballpark figures on the web of 85 - 97% efficiency. It's magnetically floating in a vacuum, so in principle there shouldn't be any factors that can really slow this thing down, no bearings and no air to cause friction.

when you spin up the flywheel and immidiatelly get the energy out again, the eff is close 100% limited by the eff of motor/generator unit that takes it to +-95% only problem is when the energy should be stored for a long time as the rotation decays due to friction, slowly though, thanks for the way the wheel is suspended. Importantly, flywheels are not to be used for long term storage, the main advantages are instant power and a Very large power output if needed.

Well because it's such a rare product, there are one or two companies that do this stuff and they do it in small numbers, which makes things very expensive. On the upside however once a unit is produced there is no reason they can't run forever, 15-20 year bearing change cycle but nothing else can wear out... although manufacturers probably don't want them to go for too long, otherwise they would have nothing else to sell.

@@MsSomeonenew alas, the capitalist problem

Flywheels are used in satellites as batteries. Wild temperature fluctuations and vacuum is hard on any kind of chemistry and they are used now commercially to run electronics when the sat is in Earth shadow twice a year.

A flywheel can power a Gen. The Gen can power an electric motor to maintain the rpm of the flywheel above stall.. self powered..after start up..

R8

Those system exist and comparably they’re incredibly expensive for home use. Just get lithium batteries.

I am replying based on my knowledge of flywheels in general and not of this product specially. Flywheels can fail catastrophically, sending shrapnel out radially. This is why flywheels are typically housed in heavy steel containers and buried. But they can be made with carbon fiber which is wound around a core, either like thread around a bobbin or like paper towel around a cardboard tube, and besides being very strong of it does fail, the carbon fiber becomes entangled with itself creating a lot of friction and heat which dissipates the rotating masses kinetic energy.

www.timesunion.com/local/article/Flywheels-fail-at-energy-project-2227225.php

Car isn't moving on a straight line, too much slope changes, turns, vibrations, etc.

Historically they did use a similar system to run a bus service in Switzerland iirc. There's a video here on KZfaq titled "The Mechanical Battery" by New Mind channel ID you're interested.

@M Detlef "You IDIOT!!!!" Ha-ha, that's a bold statement :D "You use it to CHARGE the BATTERIES in a car. When the sun is NOT out." I don't think the powering a car (a(!) car, not cars, and to power, not to charge) implies that. More of it, the key point of the video is the exchange with the power grid, "When the sun is NOT out", so you can do whatever, charge your car or power your washing machine. So why someone would suggest something that already was implied in the source? Connect the dots sir, I'm sure you can do this!

Electrolysis is inefficient, and furthermore combustion engines are extremely inefficient. If you go down the hydrogen route, fuel cells are the best way to go

+Apapabay Fachmann With fresh water shortages, in many places in the world I think a mass attempt to change water into Hydrogen would only increase the problem.

Create oxygen at the same time you could use the hydrogen and oxygen spliter in your bunker to run your cave steam system to create power. Maybe that's to far fetched.

BlueBetaPro about 0.1%

I thought I heard these are in a vacuum (no air friction) and use magnetic bearings (very low friction) ? Oh, never mind, I see your last name, you are spreading propaganda for "your" energy concerns.

matsv201@ the percent of energy loose 0.1% per minute or second Sir ?

hour. that is actually pretty much. NiMh batteries may lose as much as 1% a day, that is actually less than half. Normal Lithium batteries usually loses 5% a month or so. That is actually a fairly big problem for backup batteries.

They said work better.

& they got 🤣

😅

@DEEREMEYER1 I was slightly exasperated to go to a second flywheel video (after watching the excellent NASA one at kzfaq.info/get/bejne/o-CParh3mbG1oJ8.html ) and see another person typing in INTERMITTENT CAPS about how much they hate flywheels. So I suppose it's a welcome surprise to realise that you're the same person. The point of having flywheels / batteries / pumping water uphill to balance the grid is to be able, eventually, to do away with the base load plants.

Roy Hemion Actually no. A batteryry can only go with about 1000 cycles or so, but a fly wheel can easialy do 20 000 cycles.

Ok....considering how well bearings and other no to low friction devices become, I retract my statement.

+Roy Hemion 0:42 -"..vacuum tank...and suspended by powerfull magnets.". Almost no friction thereby. I guess there are more problems like eddy currents, Earth magnetic field and probably the rotating of the Earth.

+Roy Hemion "what a waste! It takes lots of energy to spin these up" that is the point Roy. :-)

+lweinbergjr, Agreed, some of the comments out here just prove a complete lack of understanding of rudimentary conservation of energy (first law of thermodynamics) principles.