That's a bummer. Certain 17-20 F150's and 18-20 expedition & navigators had the issue. Makes me wonder if they changed parts supplier on those affected. Hopefully Ford fleet helps as there is zero coverage over 100k.

2017 is the same part as 2018. In fact, they redesigned and updated the part mid 2018. It would appear that you have no idea what you're talking about.

@@wildman1137 lmao, you just contradicted yourself so look in the mirror my dude. I simply stated my completely unscientific anecdotal experience. Being that we've had exactly zero issues with 2018's, I'd say that's some pretty strong evidence on correlation, but fuck if I know. Go bark up a different tree.

The next one I do, I'm taking one of the new units apart to see what is different. Seems like so many say it's an oil pressure problem with plugged oil pickups, Talked with our parts manager and he said they have never sold a pickup tube for a 3.5 ecoboost but hundreds of phasers. Amazing how so many people can be so wrong. One of our techs had a higher mileage unmaintained 3.5 f150 come in 3.5qt low on oil with nasty knocking noise all the time. He swore it was lower end so he removed pan, rod caps, main caps and inspect pickup. All looked almost perfect. Whole day wasted. It was a blown apart intake phaser. He didn't listen to me. LOL

@@raincitywrench117 can't wait to see

How does calibration prevent locking pin wear?

I got the updated software. Is it boosting the oil pressure at start up? I’m not sure how that locking pin issue gets fixed even with boosted pressure which likely causes other issues.

@@U20E27 This engine has a positive displacement internal 2-stage variable vane oil pump which is controlled by an integral solenoid on the pump that will switch the pump between high and low mode operation. If a customer complains of shudder, Ford wants you to disconnect the oil pump electrical connector then test drive to see if shudder is gone. So it looks like the program changes the oil pressure under various conditions to prevent pin wear. Default is high mode (full pressure) but the engine will still take a split second or two to build oil pressure to the phasers and if the pins aren't locked it will rattle.

Oh man 😂 Sounds like you need to find a different dealer, unfortunately.

The noise is definitely disturbing. Hope all goes well.

I just sold my 2019 fx4 due to fords solution for vct rattles and cam position error codes. Stay as far away from the eccoboost and the soft body f150 as possible.

No problem. That's a tough pill to swallow 😓

Thank you! Seen other videos and post stating the noise is caused by an oil pressure problem but it simply is not true. It's definitely a locking pin issue. Since I posted this video I got to thinking... Is the reason the pin is not locking due to oil holding the pin open? Now I need to open up another one and check out the passage. It could be the spring is not stiff enough and the return oil passage not large enough?

@@raincitywrench117 Do you think the multiple start/stop cycles can exacerbate the issue?

You are welcome!

That stinks! I hope after reverse programming it's back to normal. 🤞

Keep an eye out for your fans staying on at high speed after the software up date. My fans stay on high speed and my tyranny blew right after the dealer fixed the 10 speed slamming at shifts. 2019 with 22k. The upgrade adds increase oil pressure according to my service writer. Now I had to do my own research on the fans gave them a lists of issues to look for and they come back to me after 3 service visits and say oh we found a TSB on that issue. Im waiting a month now for parts. By the way they (Ford) replaced my tyranny with a new 2022 at 3k ago and the same issues are starting. I dont need a freaking spacecraft just a reliable truck.

Watched a few videos on those years back. That may be the case with Fords design also.

Thanks for watching. Here is my latest video comparing the difference. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bdiPZJCEtpnOdJ8.html&ab_channel=RainCityWrench

The pin is not locking which causes the noise on startup but the million dollar question is did they have a bad run of parts or is this a design flaw?

@@raincitywrench117 good point. I'd like to see them take responsibility for the issue. We shall see... Thanks for the video! Keep em coming!

Also 2018 3.5 ecoboost in my f150.. going into ford next week for this exact problem😑😔

Also a 2018 3.5 owner and I ALSO need them replaced. Rattle became consistent at about 65k miles

@@Thoaus21 consistent in every cold start? Or while driving too?

The reprogram is a waste of time as you know. The new phasers will fix it up. Glad it's under warranty.

You shouldn't need a warranty, it's under recall.

And also, I agree about the reprogram, it was only done to hopefully get people to forget about the problem so that Ford wouldn't have to pay for the actual replacement of the Cam Phasers.

@@danamullins2723 Exactly

@@raincitywrench117 for which years are the recalls for sorry?

You may be right. I'm curious what has been changed in their latest phaser design. Hope I get the chance to tear into one someday.

21N03 applies to 17-20 F150 & 18-20 Expedition/Navigators

Right On

My pleasure!

It does. Hope the third design is the ultimate solution.

Hello Nancy. Ford has a new phaser design and they will need to be replaced. Some of the units were replaced with the previous design and have to be replaced again. Here is the difference in the new phasers: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bdiPZJCEtpnOdJ8.html&ab_channel=RainCityWrench

I've seen that before. That's one way to fix it.

@@raincitywrench117 Mine is still relatively new 6K miles, but it does sit for several days at a time. My 2013 F150 5.0 did make that rattle and the same flooded start did in fact eliminate that. It seems that the oil pressure would bleed off after a couple of days and cause that rattle. The wife's SI did the same thing until we switched up to the Bosch Distance plus filter.

@@dapoppa2256 Interesting....

Fix Or Repair Daily

Ford had campaign 21B10 that had to be programmed by the end of February 2022 to open up campaign 21N03 which is prorated if the phasers need replaced. This is out of the letter: PROGRAM TERMS This program extends the warranty coverage of the engine cam phasers until January 1, 2023 provided the Repair Order (RO) date of Powertrain Control Module reflash under Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10 occurred on or before February 28, 2022. Ford will cover the repair or refund costs following the proration table below using the mileage shown on the RO. Ford Vehicles Mileage Ford Will Cover Up to 69,999 100% 70,000 - 79,999 66% 80,000 - 89,999 33% 90,000 or higher 0% Hope yours was programmed, it will say in oasis when you take it in.

I would make them do it again. I haven't heard of one coming back for noise once they were replaced so that's a first. Once the noise gets louder and lasts longer then you probably won't have a choice. Can't say what the long term affect is if left alone?...that is a good question.

My phaser was actually cracked.

Mine is back also.

Hopefully you are fully covered.

@@raincitywrench117 what do you mean by hopefully he is fully covered?...the recall covers anyone, but depending on the vehicle mileage they may only pay for a percentage of the Cam phaser replacement. If your vehicle is under 69,000 miles, then they are suppose to cover it 100%.

@@danamullins2723 Yea, under 69k covered 100%

At least the noise won't cause premature engine failure. Just annoying is all

I would take it back. Our dealership either fixes the problem or gets the customer into another vehicle. They don't like poor reviews. Hope where you bought it at works with you but it definitely needs addressed.

What did you end up doing is the 19 navigator holding up?

I honestly can't say if Ford has permanently fixed this issue but they have introduced yet another update on Nov. 19th. Intake VCT unit = *Note: If part HL3Z-6256-CD is not available, part ML3Z-6256-A is an alternate option. Exhaust VCT unit = *Note: If part HL3Z-6C525-CD is not available, part ML3Z-6C525-A is an alternate option. Fords dual fuel design is great I think. They build more torque and don't carbon up the valves. No need to add a catch can.

It's definitely a design flaw & Ford has a tough time admitting fault. Pretty straight forward that the pins not locking are causing the rattle but the $100,000 question: Is it just a bad phaser design or does the oiling system have a design flaw causing the pins to not lock? When I took this phaser apart the slot was full of oil so I still think the pins are not locking due to oil hydro-lock. My personal belief is when the locking pin tries to seat back into the slot it can't because oil inside the hole is not bleeding off thus causing rattle on the next startup.

That's interesting. Doesn't look like that trick will work on the Ford units though but may be worth a try.

For cold starts, hold throttle to the floor while starting to put it in "Clear Flood" mode. This will actually prevent the engine from starting, and will build engine oil pressure. Then, let off the throttle and start it normally.

Here is the customer satisfaction 21N03:static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10199482-0001.pdf Sounds like you have a crappy dealer. I would email the service manage explaining your situation and see where that gets you.

Oh yea. 17-20 F150's are affected including the Raptors. Done a few Raptors myself

Yea, I watched that. It could be the mega cap is causing the pins to fail.

@@raincitywrench117 Copy that. I am following this closely. Keep up the stellar content brother.

@@squirlydan1750 Like your name, my John Deere 140 is nicknamed squirly dan after I got thrown from it. Kind of funny. Will be taking one of the failed phasers apart on the next one I do but this time doing a more thorough examination. Want to trace the oil passage inside the pin slot. I think that oil inside the hole can't bleed out which keeps the pin from returning. Now just need to test my theory.

Given enough time it seems like the majority will start rattling.

Have yet to see damage related to this noise which seems surprising and replace the phasers only. May not be a bad idea to replace all the timing components on higher mileage engines, say like 80k and up.

Just did a 21B10 on an 18 expedition. Started it twice the last two mornings after letting it sit outside overnight. No rattle so it looks like programming worked on this one. I wish you luck on yours. At least 21N03 is now opened on your pickup but it's still under factor warranty anyway.

If it were oil pressure, why are some of these phasers failing at mileage under 20K? I would think these engines would set low oil pressure codes which they are not. Replacing the phasers fixes the issue without installing any other parts. I could be wrong and there may be a design flaw in cam megacap but Ford has redesigned their vct units twice now which seems to have resoled the issue. Also, it seems to be only the intake phasers that are failing. You may be correct on the auto start stop feature taking these units out. It would be nice to know if customers that religiously disable their A.S.S. are not having this issue.

@@raincitywrench117 Thats a good point. I had an expedition at 30k, and it could have been serviced better, and It also had a non-oem oil filter. I guess what im trying to say is, less than optimal oil pressure at all time is causing this issue. This can be caused by the mega cap, the auto start stop, or something else. Also, it's more apparent on the same cam running the high pressure pump. The whole mega cap is interesting, but it would only prove that there is less than optimal pressure. The 2.7 and 5.0 don't have this issue. For sure the auto start stop is making the problem worse.

That stinks. Wonder if a class action lawsuit will be filed for this issue? They recently updated the bulletin with another phaser part#. Our dealer hasn't installed one yet.

@@raincitywrench117 Do you mind sharing the updated part number?

@@patzimny8579 This is from supplement #3: HL3Z-6256-CD* Intake VCT Unit - Package Contains 1 Piece, 2 Pieces Required 2 2 *Note: If part HL3Z-6256-CD is not available, part ML3Z-6256-A is an alternate option. HL3Z-6C525-CD* Exhaust VCT Unit - Package Contains 1 Piece, 2 Pieces Required 2 2 *Note: If part HL3Z-6C525-CD is not available, part ML3Z-6C525-A is an alternate option.

@@raincitywrench117 thank you!

@@raincitywrench117 So I went to order the HL3Z numbers but Ford is now superceding it with the ML3Z number. Im planning to replace the plastic guides, chains and water pump and valve cover gaskets while in there, any other recommendations?

Are you talking about the alternate part# from Nov 19 supplement #3? **part ML3Z-6256-A is an alternate option** If so, I haven't installed one of the alternates yet. Same here, every one I have done it's been the intake pins with the issue.

@@raincitywrench117 i dont know the part number by heart ive done a few so far with the new updated fazer they look like the original ones but they have a sealed unit like a sealed cover going over and around the fazer and their a tad bit smaller thickness wise ive done alot with the older style but currently have done 2 so far with this new updated fazer... i think it is the one your referring to but i dont have the part number on hand

I almost never see engine issues with the 2.7L. It's always the 3.5L that has something wrong. The 2.7L is a completely different engine design, has different oiling system, cylinder head/manifold design, etc. Seems to be a good little engine.

You can save a few thousand dollars if you do yourself for sure but you will need some special tools. Camshaft alignment tools, crankshaft pulley puller and long reach pulley installer. Here are some links but search around: www.jegs.com/i/Lisle+Tools/616/37230/10002/-1?gclid=Cj0KCQiAuP-OBhDqARIsAD4XHpfR3vyXbOhwte_RJ1rGsKvpIEz-Aex_wVeKu04Hp4zbAAb8n_c-OJwaAh0SEALw_wcB# www.summitracing.com/parts/oes-27306?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAuP-OBhDqARIsAD4XHpe8OL2kw3Kr90tEbRI5UzHOIpOAYTclFxbDg4pLoCGkm58WesCgDxMaAui9EALw_wcB www.summitracing.com/parts/otc-6667?seid=srese1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAuP-OBhDqARIsAD4XHpfteyEdtbQaPQonrzFVvXUsgfC-aR3GozXRplJw5gCn_annwbqxtAsaAhoFEALw_wcB

Your problem my fall under TSB 22-2089. Here is what needs checked: 1. Run the A/C on maximum/recirculation and blower speed on high for at least 10 minutes with the engine idling, then drive the vehicle. 2. Using the datalogger on the appropriate Ford diagnostic scan tool, pull up the EVAP_TEMP PID in the front controls interface module (FCIM) to read the evaporator temperature and use a thermometer to measure the vent outlet temperature. Compare the temperature reading of the EVAP_TEMP PID to the thermometer's vent outlet temperature reading during A/C use. 3. Is the temperature reading shown on the vent outlet thermometer colder than the temperature reading of the EVAP_TEMP PID? (1). Yes - proceed to Step 4. (2). No - if Step 4 directed to restart this article, the repair is complete. For all others, this article does not apply. Refer to the WSM for normal diagnostics. 4. Recover the refrigerant and review recovered refrigerant amount. Was the correct amount recovered within +/- 1 oz. (0.03 kg.)? (1). Yes - replace the evaporator assembly. Refer to WSM, Section 412-00. The evaporator temperature sensor is part of the evaporator assembly. (2). No - refer to the WSM for normal diagnostics. Once the root cause of the incorrect charge has been corrected, restart this article from Step 1 to confirm the customer concern is corrected.

@@raincitywrench117 Thanks Wrench for the information. I will print this info and probably give a copy to my service writer to give to the tech. Losing convidence in this dealership to get to the bottom of issues with this truck.

Never seen any damage due to this noise which is contrary what one would think. Just annoying is all.

This is a 9.8hr job and our dealers labor rate is $189 so the out of warranty labor would be around $1900 plus parts.

Had an ecoboost come in that rattled loud all the time and three quarts low on oil. Dropped the pan expecting to find something but all looked great including rod/main bearings. Installed some new phasers and drove out nice and quiet. Bulletin lists labor of almost 10 hours so multiply that by your local dealer labor rate + parts cost.

This is from the Ford owner letter: "In rare instances, some vehicles will experience an engine shudder after reprogramming the PCM with the 21B10 update. Ford Motor Company will provide a no-cost, one-time repair under program 21N08 to return the vehicle’s PCM to the prior calibration. Additionally, for customers who receive the PCM update under program 21B10 prior to February 28, 2022 and continue to experience cam phaser noise, Ford Motor Company will provide an prorated, one-time repair for the cam phasers under Customer Satisfaction Program 21N03, and coverage will expire on January 1, 2023. Program 21N03 will reimburse for a one-time repair based on the mileage chart on the next page." If you are experiencing rattling then schedule an appointment because it won't get better. Get it in for 21B10 before the end of February so 21N03 can be performed which replaces the cam phasers with new updated units. I would have them keep it overnight after programming and start it up cold, if it still rattles then have them install the new parts that way you only have to take it in once.

The original PCM reprogram caused potential shudder issues, but the dealer told me that it was updated. I had the updated PCM reprogram completed in September 2021 and there is no shudder.

@@Av8orn8 Great. Hope it stays that way.

@@raincitywrench117 What is the reprogram changing? Do you recommend having a reprogram done if there is currently no rattle? Since some folks are having odd issues with t he reprogram.

@@mbrick "The heart of the system is a positive displacement internal 2-stage variable vane oil pump." "2-stage operation of the oil pump is controlled by an integral solenoid on the pump that will switch the pump between high and low mode operation." "Low mode operation is designed to maintain oil pressure between 20 to 30 psi at speeds from 1000 to 3000 rpm with low engine load and engine oil temperatures at normal operating conditions. •High mode operation is at all other engine operating conditions." I suspect the program is to engage the oil pump into "high mode" on startup. I would recommend you get it programmed before the end of February so it opens up 21N03 which will give you prorated coverage of phasers until Jan 2023 in case it starts rattling down the road. After that Ford isn't covering anything. You really don't have anything to lose because if you do get a shudder Ford will pay to reverse program it and it will still be covered until January 2023.

I just don't know. I can say I haven't done phasers on a 21 ecoboost.

Ford has issued an extended warranty coverage 21N03 for this issue and is on there third phaser design.

I almost guarantee you the phasers are your noise. How many miles?

@@raincitywrench117 Matthew thanks for the phaser tear down, great video and info. Mayson (also a Ford tech) has and updated YT video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hsBnYMh9ysjIgKc.html which mentions the cam mega caps leaking down oil pressure. Maybe that's how the locking pin is getting damaged ? Sounds like the puzzle is coming together and it's all related. My 2019 just started rattling and a occasional bang in the transmission when I first start it (like the tourqe converter is locking up in park) I called my dealer here today, they can't even get me in for the flash for 4 weeks.

You are still in warranty & it won't matter but here is what ford says: "Ford Motor Company has developed an update to the PCM software that helps protect your cam phasers so that they will not develop an undesirable noise. This PCM update is program 21B10." So it may be worth doing to possibly prevent noise after it's out of warranty.

There never seems to be a pattern to which engine will rattle and for how long. Have not heard nor seen collateral damage, just damn annoying. Our dealer is $189hr so my guess is this job is in the range of $2400.

@@raincitywrench117 thank you!

Ford factory warranty won't cover but your extended should. You need to look up the policy and check the terms. If you can't find the terms then email me with your vin# and I can plug it into Oasis to see if it's listed there. Oasis is Fords database with all their warranty and as built data. raincitywrench@gmail.com

It's a 2018 ecoboost. The 5.0 is not affected.

Will get back to you, just installed phasers in a 18 expedition today and will check the number

OK, just checked. They were the ML3Z phasers

@@raincitywrench117 ok, thank you very much ;) now I can order a new set cam phaser ;)

Older Fords have a -key in ignition- sensor so when the key is inserted it primes the fuel pump for a few seconds. The electric oil pump could be wired into the same circuit.

@@raincitywrench117 someone on youtube said that if you push down the gas pedal to the floor when you turn key to start, it won't start and will stop in 2-3 seconds. Then it would have pumped some oil. Then start it normally.

Yep, entering clear flood mode works great on an ecoboost that has noisy phasers especially if it has sat for a long time.

I have also found this works but my question is will this prevent further wear or is it just masking the rattle but the problem will keep getting worse?

All valid points. Think about this though, the locking pins and springs are there to lock the phasers so in theory you could have zero oil pressure and there would be no rattle on startup. But of course if the engine is run long enough the rods would knock, timing chains and lifters rattle, etc. When these engine experience a rattle for the first couple seconds until full oil pressure has reached the phasers is because the pins are not fully locked which leads many to believe it's an oil pressure problem. (two of the four phasers in the video would not lock and could get cams to move with a wrench)There will always be some level of oil bleed off if left sit long enough especially on a higher mileage engine. The question is why these phasers fail. Is it an internal oil circuit design flaw? I just don't know but without question, the rattle is due to pins not locking. Ford has two redesigned part #'s in the bulletin so they have definitely changed something inside the newer units. Is the locking pin spring is too weak, locking slot not deep enough, pin not able to displace oil in the slot causing partial engagement like what I experienced in the video? This is all in my opinion & I could be wrong.

I would remove all the plugs and do a compression on all four cylinders before doing anything else.

@@raincitywrench117 Thank you.

Ford is on their third phaser design so time will tell if they got the rattle solved.

This from the Ford dealer letter: "This program extends the warranty coverage of the engine cam phasers until January 1, 2023 provided the Repair Order (RO) date of Powertrain Control Module reflash under Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10 occurs on or before February 28, 2022" Also states this is a one time repair.

Supposedly, they physically look the same but different #PN.

@@raincitywrench117 Locking mechanism is different internal to the phaser. CD level part.

Replacing the phasers fixes the noise, lets hope something is changed inside. I have heard a few saying their noise eventually came back though.

The bulletin states: "In some of the affected vehicles, an undesirable noise may develop from the cam phasers in the 3.5L GTDI engine. This noise might occur as a rattle when starting the engine after the vehicle was turned off for an extended period of time or as a knocking noise when the engine is idling after it is warmed up." The defective locking pin will cause startup rattle and knocking noise while idling.

Since these are variable valve timing engines they will set codes if the computer can't advance/retard valve timing. Nice thought though.

Sounds like your dealer just doesn't want to work on it. It's tough to meet or beat Ford's warranty time allowed so flatrate techs would rather do other jobs. I would keep hounding the service manager with emails/voicemails until they fix it or find another dealer. Also, send the videos to the sales manager if it's the dealer you bought it at voicing your displeasure. I know that works at out dealer.

You drove your truck with bad phasers and that nasty start up noise for 50000 thousand miles, well it must not hurt the engine too much. I could never do it, if I heard that start up nasty noise, I am taking it apart, and pissed off.

Bulletin says 9.7hr job & our dealer is $175hr so our dealer would charge $1700 plus parts if it's out of warranty. Here is the warranty table: Up to 69,999 100% 70,000 - 79,999 66% 80,000 - 89,999 33% 90,000 or higher 0%

Without pulling up the bulletin, think it was 9.7 hours

They changed production to the updated design after 2019 so you will be good. I agree, other than this issue, they seem to be good little units.

@@raincitywrench117 Correct. All trucks built 11/2019 or later have the updated calibration and redesigned parts.

@@wildman1137 Ford has been trying to solve this/these problems for years. I’m not sure how much confidence to put into engines using re-designed parts designed to eliminate this problem? Here’s a post from a 2021 truck owner… kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l5ilpdZqvMmVeaM.html. I don’t know if it’s a the same problem or a different one? As 2020 and 2021 truck owners run the mileage up on their trucks it will be interesting to see if we start seeing more issues or not. I really would like to see the new part dismantled and someone explain how the re-design addresses the problem once and for all.

Ford has some real design doozy's.

Good question. I don't know. Have seen a bunch that rattle on startup but have only seen one that rattled at idle once warmed up. On that particular vehicle, both intake phaser pins would not lock even when pounding on them with a hammer. With a hot engine at idle, oil pressure will be at it's lowest so I suspect the pressure is just below the threshold inside the phasers to stop the noise when the pins are not locking. By the way, that same pickup came in 3.5 quarts low on oil. Installed some new phasers and changed the oil last summer. It left nice and quiet and hasn't come back.

I mean test vehicle sat for three days so it was gonna rattle a lot! But he turned it over a couple three seconds before allowing the motor to start and it corrected the issue no rattle! So hold key button down and peddle down same time allow couple seconds and then release both this builds pressure you can actually see the oil Press hushed come up when doing this and release it at that point

Oil pressure gauge sorry big fingers I’m not on the app so it won’t let me edit.

Holding the gas pedal down before cranking enters "clear flood" mode. Yep, you're right. It works great especially if it sat for an extended time. Some of these engines can rattle in a few thousand miles and phaser replacement fixes it. It takes about .5 - 2 seconds for oil pressure to build in the top end & fill the phasers. If the pin does not fully engage in the slot it will rattle in that same timeframe. With the pin fully engaged, you could have no oil pressure and the phasers would never rattle.

According to Ford, nothing. Here is what it states in bulletin 21N03: "A cam phaser that has developed an undesirable noise does not affect the vehicle safety, performance, or emissions."

Some dealers don't care if they get your business. Our dealer won't even do some warranties unless you bought the vehicle from us.

@@raincitywrench117 that's what's wrong with dealership well some day when people stop buying new start buying used they learn lessons then that's problem in US companies in iUS forgot that customers are what keeps there business going

Supposedly but I think the jury is still out.

Oil bleeds back after prolonged sitting and will take a second or two for pressure to fill the chambers inside the vct units stopping the rattle after engine is started (when pins are not locking). Entering clear flood mode on engines with defective phasers will achieve the same thing but the engine rpm's will be significantly slower which eliminates the rattle. Cranking engine over vs starting is around 800-1000rpm less which makes all the difference until oil pressure enters the vct units.

Ford updated the bulletin on the Nov 19 and here is what it says now: HL3Z-6256-CD* Intake VCT Unit - Package Contains 1 Piece, 2 Pieces Required 2 2 *Note: If part HL3Z-6256-CD is not available, part ML3Z-6256-A is an alternate option. HL3Z-6C525-CD* Exhaust VCT Unit - Package Contains 1 Piece, 2 Pieces Required 2 2 *Note: If part HL3Z-6C525-CD is not available, part ML3Z-6C525-A is an alternate option. Ford says there is no long term affects and have done a set on an engine that was rattling so bad it sounded like it was going to blow up plus it came in 3 quarts low on oil. After tearing engine down I saw no metal in the engine or in the oil. The new phasers will fix the problem but is this the true permanent fix seems to be the million dollar question. They definitely are changing something inside those phasers. That being said, WTH is up with an alternate option? Wish Ford would shine some light on this subject. Is the first PN the correct permanent fix and the option just some others that were manufactured for another application or from a different parts supplier? I just don't know but will ask our parts manager if he knows something and will pin it or add to description. You may play dumb and not say anything, have 21B10 done before the end of Feb so it will open 21N03 and then see if they will cover it. Not sure how they know about a salvaged title unless it gets posted on oasis. If it's still under mileage warranty and if you want, email me your vin# and I can plug it into oasis to see what it says.

@@raincitywrench117 greatly appreciate your reply and helpfulness with my situation. What is your email and I will shoot you the VIN. I am certainly still under mileage warranty with only 25k miles.

@@mattc7981 raincitywrench@gmail.com Yea, I can plug it into oasis to see what is says. It will show effective warranty start date plus any warranty work. Curious what it says on a salvaged title.

@@raincitywrench117 thank you again, email sent.

That I don't know but I personally have not seen a 21 in for this issue.

@@raincitywrench117 cool deal, thank you for the reply!

Nope. 2.7 also seems to be unaffected.

To be honest, I don't know what is causing them to fail but when they do it's because the pin will not stay locked which requires oil pressure before it stops rattling.

I can look up the labor time for you but what is an Expo Max. Is that European?

@@raincitywrench117 A 2018 Ford Expedition Max XLT

@@Skin6612 Oh, I got it. Labor in Ford's workshop manual says 10.2hr job. Our dealer is $179hr (just upped from 165hr) Just more inflation. Complete phaser timing sets including chains/guides should be around $1000. So our dealer would be about 3 grand with tax. Your estimate sounds high. I would shop that job around. If there is an independent with good reviews and warranty that is much cheaper then go with it.

Ok I see. Thanks alot! Been a great help! Looking forward for more of your videos!

There's a recall on the phasers but they said they can't fix it because it's passed the mileage warranty even though I just received the warning within the past couple months. Are they not obligated to fix it when Ford itself sent out the warning of the defect/recall?

Damn good question! The 2.7 is different in a few ways. The 3.5 has exhaust manifolds but the 2.7 has the exhaust collection chamber cast into the aluminum head & the turbo bolts directly to the head. So it must use different phasers?

I honestly can't remember but it was full warranty so it had under 70k.

Not that I know of but can look. Do you have one that is noisy?

@@raincitywrench117 Hi, My friend wants to buy a 2022 raptor 3.5 liter ecoboost but is afraid to because of all of the problem with cam phasers. I am hoping that Ford has improved the cam phasers for the variable cam timing system. Side note I think Castrol Magnatec should be the oil that all Raptor owners should use in their 3.5 liter twin turbo due to the fact magnatec clings to metal surfaces to coat them making for a safer start up after the engine has been off for a while or a few days.

@@raincitywrench117 I do not have one. My friends is ready to buy a 2022 Raptor V6 Twin Turbo. He heard about the Continuously variable timing lubrication problem. It would be nice if Melling made a high-volume oil pump for the 2022 V6 Raptor Ecoboost

@@Facewest I checked and they don't have a service bulletin for this problem on the 22's. I still think it's bad design in the phasers. They are on their third parts revision and it looks to be working.

No. It's a mechanical pin locking failure plus if you disconnected the vct wires the instrument cluster would be lit up like a christmas tree. You are definitely thinking outside the box, I like it.

Good one! Does Dorman make anything worth a crap?

@@raincitywrench117 Turbo bellowed up pipes for my 7.3 PSD are decent

Yes, they have the updated phasers. Haven't seen a 21 or 22 with rattle yet.

@@raincitywrench117 I have a 2018 F150 Lariat with 3.5 Ecoboost with 44000 miles. It's only made the rattle after start up twice. I've gotten the recall in the mail but haven't taken it in yet. Was looking at the new Chevy but I do like my Ford. Still contemplating on what to do...

@@toddcreech3763 It will be fully covered up to 69,999 miles. At this point you have nothing to lose if you get it fixed. If trading in, you should get a premium but new vehicle prices are also sky high. For me it boils down to what body style fits my eye.

Saw this post regarding a 2021. Not sure if the noise is due to faulty cam phasers? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/l5ilpdZqvMmVeaM.html

@@trouthunter22 Very interesting. Too bad he didn't pop the hood and take a look inside. That doesn't sound like any phaser noise I have heard plus noise doesn't go away within the first couple seconds. Sounds more metallic clang like turbo wastegate rattle but who knows. Would be nice to know the mileage. Hope it has oil in it. Thanks for posting this.

Yuck. Think that is the first gen engine. I don't see them come in very often.

Watched your video. Cool fix. You won't have to deal with that issue again. Your engine should last substantially longer with that system also.

It may be turbo noise? This is from TSB 20-7092 :"Turbocharged engines may make a variety of sounds although the turbocharger is functioning properly. Some examples of normal turbocharger noises that do not indicate a durability concern include, but are not limited to: • Rattle noise at idle or during light load conditions • Whine noise that will track with engine speed • Whoosh noise on acceleration • Noise with wastegate actuation (creak, squawk)"

@@raincitywrench117 head to my channel. I have a video of it. If you listen to the end, when I rev the engine, it will be evident that it’s not turbo noise.

@@golf3sc There is a new PCM update out for these engines that is supposed to solve the rattle after they have been replaced. I believe the recall number is 21B10. And if that still doesn't fix it, I believe the phasers would have to be replaced again.

@@alexnajjar7475 thank you for replying. My truck is back to the dealer. They did the 21b10 first, second visit was cam phasers. Made the same noise the day I picked it up. Back at the dealer for 1.5 weeks as of today, no response. Zero info. But I did have to swap out my first loaner for a second loaner, both ecosports, and help the employees figure out how to assign a loaner in both situations. (I’m in the automotive business)

@@alexnajjar7475 21B10 is the first FSA. 21N03 is to replace the phasers if 21B10 is performed prior to 12/31/21.

When they do the 21B10 reprogram, they also reset the adaptive learning software on the transmission, which could be the cause of the transmission shifting issues. When did you have the reprogram done?

Last week had it done

A few months ago I came across a bulletin on Ford PTS dealer website stating that 21B10 can cause transmission shift issues and I thought they since stopped saying to reprogram. Will look into it and see if I can find that letter. Not sure how you reverse program to older version. Will also look into that cause now I'm curious.

@@raincitywrench117 Picked up the vehicle after 21B10 reversed. Car drives great again. Lincoln sent an October letter identifying 3 programs, the 21B10, a reversal and then an extended warranty on the cam phasers to 80k miles (except already 80k in California and a couple of other states. But the letter stated unless you tried the 21B10, you did not get the extended warranty.

@@robertplas3947 Thanks. Good to know. My coworker had one in last month with one of the intake phasers rattling big time. Warranty clerk said you have to program it first which of course it didn't fix it. Makes me wonder what the software engineers were trying to do?