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Forklift lead acid batteries, investigation, renovation and equalisation, part 1 flooded batteries

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Andy Reynolds

Andy Reynolds

Күн бұрын

A 48 volt pack of lead acid batteries and showing possible problems and faults. These are 2v forklift units that bolt together to make the final pack voltage.
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@timbrown9305
@timbrown9305 8 ай бұрын
I think I learned just enough to ruin a good battery. I need more education. I am in possession of three 36 volt forklift batteries hoping to have enough good cells to make two batteries for two forklifts. They are identical but have never even seen a forklift battery before. I work professionally on high pressure boiler systems and hvac systems including cryogenic cooling for space applications (coatings on electronic boards). Trying to help a friend. I am keeping very well ventilated including fresh air continuous over open battery cells.
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 8 ай бұрын
Sounds like it's a good start, a bit of ventilation when the cells are gassing is all that's required, cheers
@Equiluxe1
@Equiluxe1 7 жыл бұрын
There is a problem with those deep cells when used in a static situation of stratification, where the acid concentrates at the bottom of the cell and the water at the top so the cells start to only hold part charge. You need to regularly run equalization charges where the cell bubbles vigorously but even then there is stratification I found that every six months or so it is a good idea to pick the batteries up and lay them over gently to one side then the other to keep the acid mixed. Much better to get cells which are more even in depth height and width.
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 7 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your comment and experience. I understand your thoughts on stratification especially if very little gassing occurs. My main pack has the square cells 7 x 6 x 20 inches and I seek for them to gas every day in an attempt to keep clean plates and even strength of acid. Better to use a bit of distilled water than the batteries go stagnant. Cheers
@massimobroccoli9854
@massimobroccoli9854 7 жыл бұрын
Once I had succes with a sulfated motorcycle battery, it took no charge even after 14 days (still 2v) ! I told an Hongarian and he told me to add AKUVIT and so I did,and a few days later the same charge ( 0.5 A) it ended at 6.8V ! After two years this battery is still in working order. I think you can only buy AKUVIT in Hungary !
@caiusjacoby9257
@caiusjacoby9257 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for great videos!
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment and appreciation, subscribed? cheers
@Pudoyan
@Pudoyan 5 жыл бұрын
Hi the Connector at 4:14 is has corrosion ingress due to the rubber sheath being penetrated by a volt meter test probe (hence the hole).
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 5 жыл бұрын
Hi, Daniel, thanks for the comment, yes and who would do such a thing? I followed this up with a video about link corrosion a few months ago (3rd Oct 2018), cheers
@222rich
@222rich 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheInfoworks forklift "engineers" do this every time they check the battery. if you use the manufacturer i'm sure it's so they can sell you a new battery sooner rather than later.
@inoahmann7542
@inoahmann7542 3 жыл бұрын
I have a forklift battery that was at 7v (supposed to be 36v) because the battery was left plugged in for over 2 years. (wasn't me this time, lol) I started charging it up 6 cells at a time about a week ago. All cells were below .5v but they were all even. It's gonna need a little work but the forklift drives again. It was parked because the front hydraulics don't move, so I still have to figure that out.
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 2 жыл бұрын
Hi, sound very good for low impact living, did you do a video to explain and show this great idea? cheers
@inoahmann7542
@inoahmann7542 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheInfoworks I didn't make a video, I've never tried to restore a battery this large before. I fixed the hydraulics and drove the lift around for a bit. (ended up being a contactor that was stuck open) Unfortunately, the specific gravity of the electrolyte is very low, even after equalizing at 80a for a couple hours. All cells rest at above 2v, most around 2.05v. The battery was severely overflowed previously. Any thoughts on where to get acid to bring the specific gravity back?
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 2 жыл бұрын
@@inoahmann7542 Hi, in industry there would be two options, either removing all the acid and replacing it with new 1280 acid (expensive), but this is only done when the battery is fully charged and then had a trickle charge for a couple of days. This is just to make sure the plates are clear of lead sulphate. Or reducing the acid level by sucking out the acid down to the plate level and adding very dangerous very strong sulphuric acid. Either way a very long trickle charge is important, a couple of amps for two weeks, there may well be sulphate still in the battery and this will release it to raise the SG. Hope this helps, cheers
@offgridsolaruk843
@offgridsolaruk843 5 жыл бұрын
Andy are you using the 6v or 12v setting on your charger for this set up? Assume 6v then taking this down using the variac?
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 5 жыл бұрын
Hi, I used the 12v side of the battery charger to reduce the current draw through the variac, cheers
@jamest.5001
@jamest.5001 7 жыл бұрын
I always just tighten the terminals enough that you can't move the cable . I mean if you really tried you could. especially if you move it the way the bolt loosens. there's no need to torque them down really tight. it only gives trouble later if you do. I'm thinking about maybe a reman batt. for my off grid home. I have up to 80 amps charging capability . at 24v I'm thinking maybe a pallet jack batt. or a fork lift batt. and parallel half the cells. question do you think balance charging helps de sulfate the plates ? I just don't know how good a reman batt can be. if its going to last a year or 10 years. every thing shuts off at 9.5-10.5 times 2 . so 19-21 volts but I try for 22-23v shut off. plus I have a small hydro set up. don't know what its going to do yet. potentially up to 25 amps. for now. I hope to double that about 2x. great info. thanks
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 7 жыл бұрын
James, thanks for the comment and your thoughts, dead right the ternimals need to be just tight enough to make a good contact and keep out any moisture. As you may have guessed from my many other videos we run a 48v system and I don't like the voltage to go below 47 for more that about 1 minute under load. For your 24v system I would say 23.5 v for no more than a minute. This helps to keep good battery health. In summer some of the charge controllers activate about 10 am, but in winter we have to use a backup charger frequently. We have about 7kw of panels and 1100 Ah of flooded type forklift batteries. The big battery really helps to avoid a drop in the volts under load, but it's no good without the generation. Hydro is a dream generation and you are very fortunate, I hope you have seen my videos on the water wheel in Bourne that we connected to the grid, Cheers, Andy
@jamest.5001
@jamest.5001 7 жыл бұрын
Andy Reynolds yes I saw the water wheel video. I'm kind of new to your channel. been watching for maybe 6 months. I'm slowly adding to my system . I'm using my generator to charge the bank of golf cart batts. I'm probably going to start buying panels at like 100w at a time. or a panel at a time. I'm trying for a goal of 1500w give or take 100 w. I need to dam up the creel . to see how much fall I can get. its not a lot of flow. but it is moving. and its basically on flat land. I'm hoping to build a 36" wheel that's 24" wide or wider. since it will be a low rpm wheel. I'm trying for as much torque as I can get. do you know and videos . or any experience with a setup like this. I have about 1000 watts worth of motor/ generators. I plan to use to get the system going. but plan to move up to something bigger if the water allows. thanks for your reply.
@caiusjacoby9257
@caiusjacoby9257 2 жыл бұрын
Hello Andy, I have a question. I bought a forklift battery, 80v 775ah from a 2017 Jungheinrich truck. They read 2,06v when I bought it. I charged it up 12 and 12v with car charger, took over a week. Took the best cells, after resting for a week with no charge, those who read over 2,12v and had specific gravity over 1250. I put them in a 48v pack and connected to a solar system 8 × 280w with EAsun inverter. I called Jungheinrich and asked how much to charge voltage/cell, they said 2,70. My solar charger have max 58,4v, thats only about 2,45v/cell After discharging my battery to about 50% (1200specific gravity) for testing capacity some cloudy day came, and it didnt charge very well for a couple of days, then i connected it to the grid because I wanted to avoid sulfation. After some hours with charging with 58,4 v and 30a, the charger showed full on the display. I measured the specific gravity, and it was very uneven, some were 1200 and some were almost 1250. What is the best thing to do now? Love your videos, greetings from Norway
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 2 жыл бұрын
Hi, welcome to my world. This is to do with equalising charge and the current. I would say that these batteries need a gentle long charge so that the ones that have been over discharged before you got them can catch up.The low ones will have some embedded sulphate on the plates that takes some time to convert, so the voltage rises before the SG and so gives a false reading. Use you batteries as a buffer rather than a power source. Much of this is in my book (see channel page). I hope you have subscribed, cheers
@caiusjacoby9257
@caiusjacoby9257 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your answer, i will let the sun give them a long slow charge and see! Im going to buy your book!
@allykhan8594
@allykhan8594 Жыл бұрын
Hello Andy, The Variac is connected to the charger, why can't you connect the charger directly? Is it because of unstable Voltage or current? Some of my forklift cells are undercharged and i need to charge as you did separately. I am finding it hard to locate a 2.3v+ Charger that can be used to charge the acid batteries can you point me in the right direction, please? I am assuming you use the Variac to set the Voltage to 5v as you indicated and the charger seems to indicate only Ampage?
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks Жыл бұрын
Hi, yes it's a 12v charger so using the variac I can adjust the AC volts in to change the DC volts out. The battery holds down the voltage to some extent and so only an amp meter is needed, After all you are seeking to put amps into your battery. Best buy a copy of my book and subscribe, cheers
@allykhan8594
@allykhan8594 Жыл бұрын
@@TheInfoworks Hello Andy, thankyou for quick reply. I get it. Where can i buy a copy of your book? Thanks
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks Жыл бұрын
No worries, the book has a whole chapter on batteries with lots of hands on experience, cheers
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks Жыл бұрын
@@allykhan8594 Hi, click on my name under the video and look under "about". There's a link to CAT bookshop, cheers
@csingleton73
@csingleton73 6 жыл бұрын
Hi, can you provide with the link for the video about the strength of acid in forklift batteries, you have so many videos. Thanks! Carlos
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 6 жыл бұрын
Hi, there is a play list on my channel on forklift batteries, I think this may be the video you are asking about, cheers. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/pb5onL2dzraZeGg.html
@sim6699
@sim6699 7 жыл бұрын
Near me, Scrapyard's want around £500 for an old forklift battery. It doesn't seam worth the cost
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 7 жыл бұрын
HI, scrap battery price is about £500 a ton at the moment, so it does make it difficult. That's 50p a kilo and some cells will weigh 35 kg. Depends on how many cells you want and the tests you make before choosing them. I wouldn't bother with packs where the links are welded on. There are places that deal in good second hand cells, though I don't know what they charge. Cheers
@djkemzyjay1802
@djkemzyjay1802 Жыл бұрын
Good day Andy, I have a 200amp tall tubular battery 12v I only use them for a year than I saw the cell gauge in the batteries are down I want ahead and take all electrolyte out of the batteries instead of me adding a distilled water in it pls I don't know what to do help me
@djkemzyjay1802
@djkemzyjay1802 Жыл бұрын
So yesterday I was on KZfaq channel I saw that I can make the electrolyte by getting the acid called sulphuric acid than mix it with water so I did, than when I was done mixing it I have to confirm my mixture with the hydrometer to know the specific gravity which was 1.250. So after my mixing I waited for it to cold than I test the specific gravity again it was 1.250, i now put the electrolyte in my batteries and charged them throughout the night dat was 6 hours, only for me to check the specific gravity dis morning it drop down why so was high to 1.225 some 1.200 some 1275 some 1.250. Please I want to know if my mixture of the sulphuric acid with water on the specific gravity 1.250 is ok and why is there different specific gravity after charging for 6 hours? Please help me don't want to loss my battery I have just use it one year 🙏
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks Жыл бұрын
@@djkemzyjay1802 the specific gravity of the electrolyte depends on the state of battery charge. Discharged is low SG, fully charged is high SG. Your batteries did not have an equalising charge before changing the electrolyte so when you charged them over night some charged up further and the SG went up. Some batteries are self discharging and so the SG goes down, these are scrap, probably damaged from over discharge and poor charging. See my book (Wind and Solar Electricity) for much more detail, cheers
@izzzzzz6
@izzzzzz6 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Andy. Just wondering how to size the battery bank. If i were to want up to 6kW and retain the mAh rating how many mAh would i need in total? Can i draw up to 10% of the batteries mAh and still expect to get close to the rating? I would not draw 6kW continuously but i would like it to be no sweat for the battery bank when i am so as to avoid running the battery down quickly during those moments.
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 3 жыл бұрын
Iz, lets look at this a different way. If you wanted to run a max wattage of 1000w (1Kw) then to work this out you need to start with the system voltage. So for 1Kw at 12v the amp draw is 1000 / 12 = 80 amps. For 24v its 40 amps and for 48v its 20 amps.For lead acid you would never discharge at a greater rate that the 20 hour rate so for a 100Ah battery to keep the batteries lasting for years then the max charge /discharge rate would be 100 / 20 = 5 amps. To supply a possible 3Kw for a reasonable time a 48v battery pack would need to be 3Kw x 20 (amps per Kw) = 60. 60 x 5 (20hr rate per 100ah) = 300 Ah. That's why for our 48v system we have 1800Ah of batteries consisting of 4 battery packs in parallel. Subscribed? Cheers. (It's all in my book)
@izzzzzz6
@izzzzzz6 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheInfoworks That's good to know. Go by the 20 hour rate. Before i was going by 5-10% of the mAh rating. So it turns out that your system is designed to exactly the spec i was asking about. It will be able to deliver 6Kw without loosing performance over the 20 hr rating. Well lets say a bit less due to older batteries and conditions. etc. But a good start. I would probably try to double that so as to never be worrying and hopefully to get even better efficiency from the batteries. Thanks for the reply. I have been wondering about trying to recover some dead batteries but i'm thinking the process is too nasty to bother. I wouldn't know how to get rid of the residues from the bottom of the batteries. I guess i would try to evaporate the liquid and throw the minerals out in the trash but even incineration is probably not the best for the environment. Do you have any good tips on disposal of lead juice. etc?
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 3 жыл бұрын
Normally the black sludge in te bottom of cells is the lead paste from the plates that has been eroded due to battery abuse, charging too fast, discharging too low. As the plates discharge they get bigger as the lead oxide turns into lead sulphate (a bigger molecule). I made an early video taking a faulty battery apart: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qbt4Z5eFyprDnpc.html If you want to dispose of this toxic lead paste then pour it in an old battery case and send it with other batteries to recycling or scrap yard. Cheers
@imhardatwork
@imhardatwork 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Andy , my cells are the slim and very tall type , i have no idea of the AH of the cells as there are no markings of the pack , i tried using my 12 volt charger and a variac on 2 cells at a time , my old charger is a 12/24 and puts out a lot of amps when connected to 2 of the cells at a time even at 5 volts when on 12 volts , what would you recommend as a safe current going into the 2 cells at a time ? or should i try doing 4 at a time maybe to lower the current ? . cheers
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, the easiest way to find out the possible Ah of a forklift battery is measure the size of your cells and then look that size up on a website selling these. That gives you a good idea, then use the 20hr rate as a max current guide. A variac and big charger will work well as an unregulated adjustable power supply. Cheers
@imhardatwork
@imhardatwork 3 жыл бұрын
@@TheInfoworks Thanks for that Andy , i just had a quick measure and they are the same size as the ones you had in that grey tub the 60mm x 200 x 700 ,, can you remember what the ah of those cells were ? over here in Aus they dont put anything on there web sites as they want you to call them so they can talk you into buying new ones ! lol
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, here's a link to battery specs page. I would guess that your used batteries may be 400Ah, (see the C20 rate) www.tayna.co.uk/forklift-batteries/lucas-2v-din/3epzs465/ Cheers
@robertocapdevilagrino4905
@robertocapdevilagrino4905 2 жыл бұрын
.Hello Andy, do you have a book and do you have a book and do you have a book and if so, which one is it, which one is it? Thank you
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 2 жыл бұрын
See my channel page and look under about for the links, and I will only say this once, cheers
@michaelansell9203
@michaelansell9203 4 жыл бұрын
Hi, your book 'wind and solar electricity' p124 shows a 2V drop tester. As far as I can find out in UK these were made by Durite who will not be making any more and they are out of stock. Do you know of any other source of these testers? Great book by the way!
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 4 жыл бұрын
Michael, try Ebay, I bought several second hand from there. Otherwise you can make your own with some heavy duty nichrome heating wire that would draw 100 amps at 2 v and a multi meter. You can work out the length of wire by using the equations found in a Ohms wheel. Find this in a web search. maybe this needs a video? Cheers
@michaelansell9203
@michaelansell9203 4 жыл бұрын
@@TheInfoworks Thanks Andy, I've been trying ebay for ages, can't find anything. I've got 24 X 2V Rolls 298Ah (I think) cells and a few of the cells are dodgy but it's a real pain trying to figure out which! Thing is most are OK so no need to scrap them all. I've been charging them individually using your variometer set up but you can achieve what looks to be a decent charge voltage and specific gravity but that doesn't tell you about performance under load. I bolted together some of the better looking iones into a 12V battery and drop tested that with a standard 12V drop tester, 12.8V open circuit dropping to 11V under load. I noticed the middle two batteries in the 6 cell array don't seem to charge as high as the two at each end, ie SG of 1250-1260 compared to 1272-1280. Any idea why this should be? A detailed video on making a resistance tester for 2V cells would be great, I tghink such a bit of kit is indispensible if you dont want to be reliant on the manufacturer and sending cells back and forth Cheers Michael
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 4 жыл бұрын
Michael, a very long slow charge may bring those cells back up, maybe over a week. Watch this space for a drop tester build. I'll see what bits I have, cheers
@michaelansell9203
@michaelansell9203 4 жыл бұрын
@@TheInfoworks Thanks Andy, you would be doing a real service with that. Keep it simple please! Cheers Michael
@vaceffadrian702
@vaceffadrian702 3 жыл бұрын
Hier hat meine Batterie 1.200 auf Rot und die ganze Säure, die ich brauche
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 3 жыл бұрын
Hi, that specific gravity seems a bit low, are the batteries fully charged or have they been over filled? cheers
@sudeepajayathilake9857
@sudeepajayathilake9857 5 жыл бұрын
48v pack of lead acid Battery .we will be able to use epsom salt.beacause gravity is too low
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 5 жыл бұрын
Hi, if the gravity is low then the battery needs charging to change the lead sulphate on the plates into lead and sulphuric acid, hence increasing the strength of the acid and so the specific gravity, PbSO4 + H2O = PbO2 = Pb = H2SO4, cheers
@edoscar83
@edoscar83 5 жыл бұрын
Hi for alls: Hoe do you think that the "epsom salt" can help this battery? And....what do you think about "sulfato de zinc" ????
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 5 жыл бұрын
Hi, epsom salt is magnesium sultphate (MG SO4). The lead acid battery works on sulphuric acid (h2 so4) and lead. The SO4 can be trapped in the lead sulphate when the battery is discharged and it takes gentle slow charging to change it back to sulphuric acid and lead. By adding epsom salt the SO4 element in the cell is increased but pores in the surface of the lead plates will still be blocked by the sulphate that originally came from the sulhuric acid and so discharging a battery that has had epsom salts added will make the problem worse. So what do I think? it damages the cell even more and is pointless. Cheers
@edoscar83
@edoscar83 5 жыл бұрын
Good point about this. And....what do you think about the "zinc sulfate"???
@1961kickboxer
@1961kickboxer 10 ай бұрын
Couldn’t use epoxy resin to seal the gap
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks 10 ай бұрын
Hi, it needs to be flexible for a reasonable seal with the link, cheers
@MrSprinter315
@MrSprinter315 Жыл бұрын
I had a Bt cargo C3E ,48 V truck,15 yr old,1500 hr done . Recently, it had produced some error code 47 D4 47 1A It had just 3 Brandt new Cells replaced 2 weeks We have put in in full charge , [ 51v ] after that, on the dash board , it shows full charge . As soon as , we start using it 2 mins , it cut out .that 47.1A + 47.D4 came up,it drop to 46.4 V,but the dash board .it still show full charge !
@TheInfoworks
@TheInfoworks Жыл бұрын
Maybe you have some duff connections, or further duff cells, A hydrometer and a 2v 200 amp drop tester are your friends here. I think I have a video on how to make a drop tester, it might be in the home live series. Cheers
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