I came in here expecting to see Spiderman discuss religion :(

Came looking for Spiderman, stayed for Prof Francesca.

I love hearing Professor Stavrakopoulou and Tom Holland speaking. Their rigorous academic approach is a joy to experience.

Hearing these two speak...raised my IQ by one standard deviation

When I was a Christian I thought Francesca was a "threat" now I see she is just honest.

This was great, I just wish that Francesca had a microphone.

I'm wondering if some of the males commenting here have ever seen a real woman. Yes Francesca is hot, but there's a world full of beautiful women out there, & the purpose of this video is purely intellectual & academic. Show some respect for a fellow human being who is educated & an expert in her field.

Dr Francesca is intelligent and educated. l like people that are intelligent and educated! Men or women, we are to be at least a bit cultivated!

Tom Holland is simply brilliant to listen to. Thanks for the upload!

I’m new to these people. I’m glad to see rational discussion. Here in the states i think rational thinking is lacking, and many people are advancing, finally.

We need more people like this in our dogmatic world..free thought & inquiry are everything!

The major question of Why We Are Here remains essentially unanswered and unsolved and when we are speaking in addressing all religious belief, the fact exists that humans have multiple theories: ancient and contemporary religious literature attempts to address why humans exist but huge and conflicting diversities exist among religions. Who are we really and what sort of future we face remains the key question.

Francesca Stavrakopoulou and Tom Holland are a class act.

These people should speak on mainstream media more often.

When you believe in mythology you need to be prepared for the arguments that render it specious. I have believers in my family and they don't want to hear ANYTHING that refutes their mythology, but I tell them the same. A terrible case of cognitive dissonance, pure and simple. "I believe 'X', please don't tell me anything that doesn't support my belief. OK, fine. Live in ignorance.

Whoever says anything about Islam is always going to be threatened, unless you say, like a robot, that which they want you to say.

Fantastic conversation. Really great stuff.

The guy who is one of the speakers gives an excellent explanation as to why liberals and progressives tend to not want to criticise Islam, which conservatives regard as “double standards”. Essentially, although liberals and progressives agree with the criticism from conservatives about Islam* concerning its reactionary views, we believe it is more important to not criticise Islam and Muslims *in the West* for the following reasons: 1. If your goal is to prevent terrorist attacks and to prevent radicalisation, research has shown time and time again that the constant demonisation of a minority for their cultural or religious practices doesn’t shame them into abandoning them. What it does is drives those minorities further together and become more insular, leading to more opportunities for radicalisation since there is now a perception of being “under attack” by the dominant culture. What we say instead is that, let’s not criticise them because it is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to the goal of eradicating terrorism and instead rely on other research which shows that minorities tend to assimilate on their own accord over time due to environmental and dominant cultural pressures. There is even evidence of that occurring in the West now. 2. Although it may feel good to get what you think about Islam “off your chest”, getting something off your chest is not worth an innocent, sweet Muslim lady walking down the street and having her hijab ripped off, attacked and humiliated is NOT worth it. And we know from research on role models in society that if the elites start demonising a certain minority, the majority population will begin more brazenly attacking them, usually leading to disasters such as Hitler and the Holocaust etc. What we’re saying to right wingers is that there’s a BETTER way of achieving the aims we want. It’s the way you to tend to go about it that makes the problem even worse, not better. There. * although we believe these to be disingenuous because conservatives generally do not care about such issues such as gay rights, feminism, separation of church and state and we see this more as an attempt by conservatives to say “haha look at you not standing up for your principles when Islam or Muslims don’t even believe in it”, which is a separate point anyway)

The setting is awkward. Either keep them sitting when they talk, or at least bring the podium for them to speak from behind. It just feels awkward this way. I don't why this grown up woman in the middle did not think of this thing!

Having them standing is awkward, especially for the moderator. They could've at least put those podiums in front.

Is it just me or Zoe Williams (guardian) really squirming when there's any discussion on criticizing islam or printing Muhammad cartoons?

I loved it when Francesca Stavrakopoulou said that human rights should always trump religious rights, and that it should be in the constitution.

Am I the only one who sees that Dr. Stavrakapoulou is as absolutely gorgeous as academically brilliant?❤

They should have adjusted the microphones before they started.

Excellent to listen to . Many good thoughts to think on . Thanks to you for putting this up

Religion, Culture, tradition often intertwined but not synonymous. I think of religion as "religare," binding to doctrine, organization, & uncritical restriction. One can devise one's own personal "spirituality" and religious practices while being polite & accepting of others. "If it's true gold, you need not fear the furnace."

If Eve ate from the tree of eternal life instead of the tree of knowledge, there'd be no story.

amazing conversation

It's summer here in NZ on the afternoon of New Year's Eve 2022. So enjoy listening to these two... such smart, sane, warm human beings. They just seem such nice people, that I'm thinking how nice it would be to take them along to a barbie with friends and all just sit around and have intelligent conversation over a G&T or two. Nothing like sitting in the sun on a hot summer evening and enjoying smart conversation.

As someone who was spent their whole university time as a christian I am appalled to hear that as suggested at the end of this video that the Christians has been responsible for silencing peoples voices. Everyone should be able to say what they want to say without fear. Peace and love.

Francesca you have the right to exist !

How can you do something like this and not make sure the audio is good? Unbelievable.

37:20 "Some of these people really believe this shit." - Tom Holland

The reason there are so many beliefs is because there are so many people therefore so many opinions…kind of easy to see why they are all different….just humans being humans…good video!

No religion that can order its members to kill dissenters deserves respect. Tom Holland does. End of story.

I came here for a different Tom Holland 😩

35 minutes in she says that you can criticize any religious system but just be polite about it....that may or may not have been true 8 years ago, but is it still true in 2024?

She says 'I think we just want community' and that's the feeling we have. Not the need for human spiritual guidance. Blah blah blah. She knows more than anybody and has all the answers.

Interesting, one of my ancestors was one of the early humanists, and he suffered the ire of the Inquisition for it. Also interesting to hear that what’s happening in academia in the UK is the polar opposite of that in the US.

I would become an Atheist for Francesca. Oh wait, i already am. Damn.

This was wonderful. I really appreciate hearing from both of the panel members.

Tom "But Moslems are worse" Holland felt very unconfortable when Francesca speaks...

I respect the fact that Francesca has not only amassed significant qualifications, but also forged the path she has, despite the misogyny that remains rife, particularly in areas of religion. The church dogma has women as nothing more than chattels, and to me, that is abhorrent.

Tom Holland to get the quote of the existence of the universe award for "They believe this shit "!

I’m not sure franscesca’s interpretation of circumcision really reflects any credible biblical scholars view of the process, and its meaning for Jewish culture, or even cultures older than that tradition? I’d like to see her sources for that and for gender and sex in Genesis like she mentioned. Her view is pretty radical deviation from any scholarly sources I’ve seen.

So, Pagans invented their own backstory! Wow. Yes, we humans are more alike than different. And working stories is a big part of how we move forward.

love listening to these sorts of speechs. Theyre slowly but surely weeding out the supernatural in an interesting and logical way. And Francesca makes it very easy to watch indeed. Purely from an intellectual stance of course.

I loved the video, both Francesca and Tom are extremely knowledgeable and professional. She never offended Christianity, she is simply giving the facts, if you 're offended by facts it is your problem. She is being objective, and that's what we need. Also all the comments about her personality are so inappropriate. In many environments it is still difficult to be a woman, that's a fact. Just look at all the disgusting comments here, sexual harassment is still a big problem, and we need more ppl to admit to it and talk about it. If it's not a problem for you personally, if doesn't mean it's not a problem for other ppl. Be respectful.

Its very interesting but Fransesca needs a mic

I love the circumcision part! I'm so tired of the way people react to simply saying "you probably shouldn't cut a baby's penis". Just leave them alone unless they need it for a medical reason

Not the Tom Holland I was looking for

Shame that so many Muslims and Chtistians actually believe 'holy books' are actually 'true ' with the Gods, Angel's, divine revelation et all.

Religion is just another avenue for people to disagree

But who taught both religions about persecution? Who does persecution better than anyone? Who invented it, and perfected it???

Wish you had a mic on her for better audio clarity.

It’s funny how people are talking about Tom’s speaking content, and Francesca’s appearance.

the sheep divided the sheep they created their own sad world for themselves

Watching this in 2024 is interesting!

Fascinating explanation by Tom about the differences in approach between Western and Islamic traditions and his acknowledgement of his Western bias via the Western intellectual tradition of free enquiry. I have read his book on Islamic origins and he does not mention this, but he has obviously thought about it a lot since the book was published.

Greek Goddess of knowlage!

Excellent, Francesca is a fantastic speaker and knows her stuff. Thumbs up

Francesca is very eloquent and is a very beautiful person who has no time for worshipping mythical supernatural gods, but is interested in religion .

" Muhammad Never Existed " - Islamic Theologian Professor Sven Kalisch has concluded: " Muhammad Never Existed " Sven Kalisch is professor of Islamic theology at Munster University in Germany, Kalisch was administrative council of the Germany Muslim Academy and worked for the Islamic Centred of Hambourg.

I love her intellect and understanding of the truth

positively painful to hear people expostulating on the issues in Israel without thoroughly understanding the people, history, geography of the regions they're discussing. Moslems hold Mecca and Medina holy to them, not so much Israel. They don't need our little slip of land as much as the Jewish people need it. They have so many other places they can be! I don't mind if they live with us in peace but they continue to contest our right to be in a sliver of land as large as New Jersey!

What problematic is people just now finding out that original Egyptians were black people an original Greek people were black also and that Egyptian hieroglyphs and Greek writing was invented by the black people why isn't this taught in school and in our history books it's been known for 50-60 years now and yet people are just now hearing about it

Can anyone direct me to the video of Dr Francesca Stavrakopoulou talking about serpent worship? It mentions the Avebury stone monument in England. I watched it once and I am now having difficulty finding it. Thanks

Definition of a cult: a group of people that believe too much on what they agree.

"In the Shadow of the Sword" is a great book!!!

Mr Holland lost me entirely when he said that despite being Catholic and Protestant that, nonetheless, Christianity formed a basis for peacemaking because "Blessed are the peacemakers." For the Catholics --- whose side primarily doesn't amount to their Catholicism, by and large --- it's about colonialism and a battle against elite forces with a haughty disregard for the indigenous. Much like in Africa, the Americas and elsewhere. Also, they would disagree that their divided land is a solution.

Awesome content but please sort sound for future wonderfulness thank you

Absolutely we need more people like Francesca. Magical thinking needs to go now, religions are very often hateful organisations. Big thanks to the Humanist UK and this amazing talk from the brilliant Francesca. Thumps UP!!

It always amazes me when people imply the moral teachings of Christianity when the bible is basically a manual for human rights violations.

Francesca is just so wonderful, I have a HUUUGE crush on her.

The Quran, in its view of Heaven For Men, is in itself completely ridiculous.

Shame about the audio but thanks for sharing

I'm sure grateful that I don't sit in this woman's classroom!

I am a Atheist but oh my GOD Francesca is HOT!

Dan Mclellan is lucky he studied from this woman. She's intelligent and gorgeous.

...........Dr. Francesca is one of my favourite female Scholars, as wise as beautiful.... I am so happy that we have such intelligent and free thinking people, in this world, like both speakers .....

Advice to the wise: don't go on a show with Tom Holland without something clear and interesting to say. Hard to look smart when the other guy offers depth, context, perspective and original thinking in short sentences with grace and some dose of humour.

goddess

37:22 wonderful, an enlightend man, just freely speaking from his heart, deeply feeling the truth. Oh praise, praise logos!

Love Tom Holland. He has an unquenchable passion for knowledge. The other speaker has a lovely smile.

Brilliant woman. It's about time we subjected religious doctrine to peer review. It's one thing to put them in the perspective of being an evolving folk tradition of paleolithic attempts to understand nature. It's even appropriate to acknowledge religion as one of the foundations of civilization and culture... but in the present day any of these that were presented in the form they took in there ancient iterations, they would be considered laughable by the same cultures that take their laboriously edited and adapted forms as "immutable truth" within the modern cultural context.

You can now spell Religion another way: GULLIBLIGION!!! For the Religious!!!

An extremely wise man once said religion was started when the first con man met the first fool. Quoted by Mark Twain

Very interesting to listen to, but the audio isn't good. There should have been a microphone.

Everybody should believe what they want to believe as long as they don't bother me.

1:19:50 Lovesick stalkers are worse than religious extremists? Didn´t see that one coming...

I wonder if Francesca sees a similarity of "animal sacrifice by some religions", and scientific usage of animals in ways that cause pain.

"Tom- tell us a little about your credentials"... OK I'll ramble on pointlessly for 15 minutes about how I came to write about Islam and then what happened after that.

I wonder if she realises (or would ever want to)that's she's the natural successor to Christopher Hitchens.

Is it ok that I love Francesca's mind BUT also find her very very very very very attractive?

One will not comment on the beauty of ms Stavrakopoulou for that would be rude BUT I would like to state that I could listen to both of these intelligent people all day,and would state that intelligence is the beautiful thing in this,I have wasted my time as an electrician..I should have dedicated my studies elsewhere, there is so much more in the universe to learn than the rubbish my religious family and Grammer school subjected me too ( in their own distorted way cos' that was all bollocks).

Have to be honest, as an atheist with friends and family who are devote Christians, involved in their community, social justice, charities and in one case saving lives, all motivated by their beliefs (non are C of E) Tom H does come across as bit of a condescending arse.

Greek and Cypriot women...Damn! Gorgeous

46:43 the same old childish feminist bullshit "or godess".

pls listen to the woman , don't say anything to try to alter her thoughts while she is speaking. now it is when u use ur imagination and put urself using your upper head to appreciate what's in her head. Remember that she, unlike u only has one head with a real brain. Don't let ur eye or eyes as beautiful or intelligent she appears to wake up the brain in ur bottom head control ur upper head. Now we all can continue to the next level of communication

Oops! Wrong Tom Holland