The biggest challenge is finding a group of friends committed to meeting regularly and see the whole thing through to the end!
@JackgarPrime Жыл бұрын
That's why solo is also an option!
@scotthartley78374 ай бұрын
Been an issues since dnd was made too
@MtrCtyKid Жыл бұрын
If there was ever a game to bring back the component drop for....
@leadbones Жыл бұрын
I'm so glad he doesn't do that any more. It killed a little piece of me every time.
@Jsleezy_2000 Жыл бұрын
Triggered!!! 😂😂
@azizmandar Жыл бұрын
I was going to suggest he do this for the smorgasbord component drop once he's done with his copy. It would be insane.
@MrCrixmadine2 Жыл бұрын
Ha
@TheJDough1 Жыл бұрын
If he did a component drop, it would change to a review of the table that could absorb that!
@AlmightyCow1 Жыл бұрын
I hope they do a Jaws of the Lion: Frosthaven. These big boxes are just too much for me, but the smaller version is perfect. I hope they keep that line going.
@marcelcwertetschka Жыл бұрын
isaac pretty much confirmed in a recent interview he is considering that option
@jeffschaub Жыл бұрын
100%, I've yet to start Gloomhaven, but my young son and I are playing JOTL and LOVE the ability to set up on a whim and get a quick scenario completed on a school night. I rarely have 3-4 hours at a time.
@Ikatik Жыл бұрын
I agree. The biggest thing for me really is setup and tear down with the big box. Way easier to flip out the scenario book and 10-15 components needed per level.
@Roundtablist Жыл бұрын
Hopefully it's called Whiskers of the Sea Lion, or Flippers of the Penguin... Ahem - I may not be a dad, but I'm allowed to practice, aren't I?!!!
@JonReid01Ай бұрын
@@marcelcwertetschka when
@tomlangan990 Жыл бұрын
Yeah im only for the steam digital version of gloomhaven. It's been a great way to play as I often work away, so play online with a couple of friends. 2/3 scenarios a week. Not having to do set up or upkeep is fantastic. It merges gloomhaven with jaws of the lion if you buy the slc. I'm hoping they'll do forgotten circles then frosthaven. Will keep us busy for years!
@mccallosone4903 Жыл бұрын
im very glad i tried it on steam before i setup the box i bought. i wasnt a fan, so i was able to sell my box at nearly full price. not a fan of the gloomhaven series at all, i hate deckbuilders
@namedjasonc Жыл бұрын
*unless it's changed from Gloomhaven, the card in the modifier deck that you called a "complete miss" is actually "no damage". While the attack does no damage, if it has any other effects (like stunning a target or whatever), those still happen.
@IamKnucks Жыл бұрын
I know I'll be playing it for a long time, but I don't know if the people I'm playing with will be playing it for a long time. In that case, it's nice to have removable stickers so you can reset the board for new people.
@rmathiesen5125 Жыл бұрын
We house rule the loot pickup thing bc we're casual dad's that only have 3 hours every few weeks so, we wanna see more of the content when we play bc will never ever get back to it. No loot left behind!!
@MRG3M4R Жыл бұрын
I use the removable stickers to be able to resale after we play through it. We were able to recoup almost 85% of Gloomhaven when we sold it. I'm guessing if you use the normal stickers you wouldn't be able to get a much.
@birkhoms Жыл бұрын
How do you go about the stickers that you have to put into the rule book as well as the scenario chart? I haven´t found a good solution to put them back in without going trough major hoops? Hence I have yet to start properly into the game.
@bigd5773 Жыл бұрын
Tom, now that you’ve played KDM, does this seem like Gloomhaven with a KDM settlement phase added in? Seems like a “have a encounter with monster(s), take loot, have a settlement event/encounter, upgrade your settlement, upgrade your dudes, repeat” feel to it. Even the fact that it is super hard.
@bigd5773 Жыл бұрын
Lol, right after I posted, Tom mentioned it a bit.
@dominicthompson5443 Жыл бұрын
KDM was easy. Alot of broken mechanics to cheese the game
@dressydressy6246 Жыл бұрын
I’m loving the Gloomhaven app.
@IamKnucks Жыл бұрын
I've always thought of cards as stamina. Not health. You can become exhausted.
@SSJCyan Жыл бұрын
It is that'd why stamina potions give u cards back
@JJW667 Жыл бұрын
Am I the only one watching every Frosthaven review because I’m just too excited while waiting for my copy?
@siriactuallysara Жыл бұрын
I’m glad they improved the story. There was only 1 part of gloomhaven’s story that I enjoyed and was memorable. Otherwise gloomhavens story was very skippable. Spoiler for gloomhaven- My favorite part by far was joining the demons and helping them overthrow the city and then the demons give you missions to track down the rebels. You work with demon Allies. That was so different I loved it. Most people choose to fight the demons, but being Allie’s with the demons and overthrowing the city of gloomhaven was extremely fun.
@bobbobbing4381 Жыл бұрын
What I take from this review is that it is like some RPG video game as a board game.
@theshogunstein6475 Жыл бұрын
How many of the people who bought Frosthaven finished Gloomhaven?
@koalabrownie Жыл бұрын
0.7%
@KurtDepner Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review, Tom. Still waiting for my copy but no worries; working our way through Sleeping Gods right now so that should preoccupy my time for awhile. 🙃
@Vijay-tg7hf Жыл бұрын
Sleeping Gods is so fun haha
@PsychicLord Жыл бұрын
Mine arrived yesterday, so they are still coming through.
@VillainCollector1 Жыл бұрын
Nice review Tom!
@Zorayas Жыл бұрын
Hey Tom, do you have any plans to review the Luck Duck app for this? Would love to know if that simplifies setup etc.
@InnerMedium Жыл бұрын
I would highly suggest the Xhaven app. Extremely reduces time between scenarios.
@EfrainRiveraJunior Жыл бұрын
In case you missed it: The score was 9/10.
@elqord.1118 Жыл бұрын
Frosthaven is THE campaign game. I really won’t need another one for at least two years
@ilqrd.6608 Жыл бұрын
@Patrick White Meh
@russellscott1151 Жыл бұрын
Jaws of the lion was great but we gave up on Gloomhaven because we got bored. 1) we very rarely managed to get any loot cos you just don’t have time in 2 player mode. 2) we never got to change character cos we couldn’t meet the right things to complete a quest. 3) every scenario was much the same, just kill everything. 4) story seemed redundant as it was just kill everything 5) no puzzles or varying interest. 6) we went up the levels (I got to level 9 magic user) but the scenarios just seem to get harder. You’d think as you got more powerful it might make things a little easier but nope just harder still. Now maybe some of this was cos we were in 2 player mode I don’t know but it hasn’t inspired me to go to frosthaven. Oh and the upkeep, we didn’t use the app as didn’t realise it exists.
@ramonosuke9 ай бұрын
I wish they use a book(s) for the scenario maps like they did in Jaws of the Lion. Having to sort through all those tiles was one of the things I despised in Gloomhaven.
@Br0kenM0nkey Жыл бұрын
Sadness that Dice Tower couldn't get 3 others to do a group review with Tom.
@koalabrownie Жыл бұрын
They sometimes have a second review for the same game though not recently-
@nshaw1299 Жыл бұрын
The image of Tom talking over the huge grey box, tapping his hands on it, looked like the french knight taunter from 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail'... 'I blow my nose at you, you silly English keniggets!!'
@PappaTrond Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the review - can't wait to get the Gang together and play it ourselves. :)
@CriticalComplainer Жыл бұрын
Setup and take-down are the primary reasons I play this game on PC. The digital app for Gloomhaven was a HUGE boon for me. I'm sure Frosthaven will have one eventually. That being said, the game's "Difficulty" is purely a result of how massively punishing the combat decks can be. The wild variance between taking double-damage and missing an attack can absolutely end a mission in a totally unfair way. Rarely, if ever, does my attack flipping double-damage ever matter because most of the time, I'm taking actions to min-max my hits to perfectly kill something or even overkill something.
@Trockenmatt Жыл бұрын
There is an official house rule where you treat Crits as +2 and Misses as -2
@CriticalComplainer Жыл бұрын
@@Trockenmatt Yeah, I noticed that in the digital version. I'll need to give it a try sometime to see how it feels.
@Redskies45311 ай бұрын
You can equip an iron helmet and treat x2 as a +0. Only two in the shop tho. Buy a bless at the sanctuary and your miss prob goes from 50% to 25% per reshuffle.
@simonadams Жыл бұрын
I had Gloomhaven but cooled on it hugely because of the set up and tear down, and because, for a supposed "campaign" "story" game, it doesn't pay off nearly enough for the time it asks you to invest. JoTL solved basically every problem. Frosthaven looks like a giant step backwards.
@ilqrd.6608 Жыл бұрын
Use. The. App. Problem solved
@Sinjet247 Жыл бұрын
@nos ad aquilonem Think they’re talking about the digital game version which does solve the problems of tear down and setup because it’s the entire Gloomhaven experience in digital format for a fraction of the cost and is fully online capable. Owned Gloomhaven and put a dozen hours into it but fell off because it’s such a slog, the digital game fixed everything for me
@Rex1987 Жыл бұрын
i just hope there will be something like JoTL but for frosthaven.
@simonadams Жыл бұрын
@Ilqr D. if you need to use a campaign tracking app (I assume you're talking about) to solve problems with the boardgame, then it has serious usability issues a la Through The Ages. @Chuck Zodl If the answer is "play the video game version", well now you've put a boardgame into a realm where it simply cant compete: modern (even classic) video game rpgs are lightyears ahead in basically every regard. We play boardgame campaign for the tactility and shared experience, not really for the depth of mechanics, story, or world building
@hugovandenbosch7593 Жыл бұрын
A good insert/organizer will significantly improve setup-time. Obvious downsides are additional (high) costs and needing to assemble it. I use an insert for Gloomhaven and every single session I found it crucial and was really happy with it. Just my two cents 😊
@scotthartley78374 ай бұрын
Just bought jaws of lion to play with my kids. When i get through and move to frosthaven. Can we use the old classes in frosthaven or are those forever gone
@Snipercapt09 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for committing so much time and effort to this game before doing your review. You are more up front about your time spent and committed to bringing us a full picture more than most reviewers out there who rush out their opinions
@Snowbo92 Жыл бұрын
How do the road encounters feel compared to Gloomhaven? A bunch of the GH ones are so obtuse; they don't give you enough information, and are sometimes punishing regardless of the choice you make (sometimes, without even knowing how either choice will affect the outcome). Is Frosthaven any smoother with those?
@alifant1944 Жыл бұрын
I just played through 5 scenarios. I can assure you they got even more confusing. It's clear that Isaac is playing with us: the results of an event are usually the opposite of what you think. We've faced an event with a resolution that triggers only if one of you said specific words during the discussion!
@Snowbo92 Жыл бұрын
@@alifant1944 Eugh that's disappointing. My friends and I just ignore the GH encounters completely because of how frustrating they are... we just added all of the possible reward items into the merchant deck, and unlocked all of the scenarios
@Draffut2003 Жыл бұрын
The long awaited review of the long awaited sequel.
@ghazkullthraka1698 Жыл бұрын
Its also 3years that my gloom is on my table❤️❤️❤️
@marclarell Жыл бұрын
At the beginning of playing gloomhaven i was have mixed feelings about the permanent stickers, especially the skill enhancements. But for some reason, perhaps because of the sheer size of the game, it feels so rewarding to progress the state of the game that i'd rather have permanent stickers than removable ones. As soon as we finish all possible scenarios i will hang the map up on a wall.
@VeeeeryyyFaaaastSlooooth Жыл бұрын
Great review. For me Gloomhaven and this aswell is just too much. Too much stuff, too much setup, too much for sake of having too much. Jaws was awesome tho, similar thing for Frosthaven will be an instabuy.
@Kingeptacon Жыл бұрын
Players could really benefit from a dedicated gaming table that you can just leave the game sitting on for a few months while you go through the campaign.
@kennychan6645 Жыл бұрын
I liked jaws of the lion - it’s easily 10/10 for me but I am sure I won’t get frost heaven or original Gloomhaven as I hated the setup time. Let’s come back to this when we see a streamlined frost haven jaws of the lion then we can discuss…
@Judgegyd3 Жыл бұрын
They did announce that they will be creating a scenario map book for both gloomhaven and frosthaven after the success of jaws of the lions scenario book
@kennychan6645 Жыл бұрын
That’s great to know! I will be waiting with cautious…
@grungekids11 Жыл бұрын
Outstanding review, Tom! Thank you. (And missing the Eric Summerer voice overs for both the intros and outros. Is he still on board at Dicetower Studios?)
@Noonycurt Жыл бұрын
Yes, Eric is still with the Dice Tower. (He does "At The Table" with Tom.) They have removed the canned intros and outros though, which is ok for me.
@grungekids11 Жыл бұрын
@@Noonycurt lol! Summerer's voice just set's the tone so well tho!
@arthurdent9281 Жыл бұрын
I was kind of glad they stopped with the intro stuff. Kind of felt a bit dated.
@chucktelschow Жыл бұрын
If you could only keep one, would it be FH or Oathsworn?
@Kingeptacon Жыл бұрын
I just bought both. I don't own a lot of games though.
@annominous826 Жыл бұрын
There's no reason to dismiss the idea of removable stickers. My wife and I own Gloomhaven and Jaws of the Lion, both with the removable sticker sets, because we expect to keep the games for the rest of our lives and potentially play them again in 10, 20, 40 years. We have a modest budget and can't really keep up with all the great stuff coming out, so when we buy a board game, it's for life, unless we really don't care for it.
@ThymeKeeper Жыл бұрын
I don't understand why games have to be made woefully difficult and then allow the player to scale down. They should be made easy, or at least average, and allow the player to scale UP. What's the difference? There is a HUGE difference between allowing someone to change the difficulty level because they don't feel good enough and need to be challenged LESS and doing it because they feel TOO good and want to be challenged MORE. One feels like failure and the other feels like success.
@Sinreal Жыл бұрын
It scales both ways, easier and harder.
@lassepoulsen7777 Жыл бұрын
The video claims that GH was hard. Gloomhaven wasn't woefully difficult (perhaps a few scenarios where slightly overtuned/luck dependent). But it also had classes that could solo 3man setups easily. So wouldn't spend too much energy being concerned with FH difficulty based on Tom Vasel. I do appreciate that designers attempt to have a reasonable challenge as the baseline. If you ask me, then GH was for the most part too easy (in particular at higher levels with better gear available). It started out great though.
@haukionkannel Жыл бұрын
@@lassepoulsen7777 If you read the comment in Steam. People complain that the game is too hard, so yeah... I like the difficulty of this game and GH was not too hard, but i like complex games and dice chucker's did not like this game at all because they did lose even at the easiest level...
@lassepoulsen7777 Жыл бұрын
@@haukionkannel sounds great! Gaming in general needs a return to the times when normal difficulty involved being challenged :)
@RageBadgerGaming Жыл бұрын
Thank you for your thoughts on the game. I always love to hear other content creator's thoughts on the game. :)
@tomasxfranco Жыл бұрын
This is the kind of thing that I think works better as a videogame.
@synnical77 Жыл бұрын
Yup. Since Gloomhaven is on PC it's the only way I'll consider playing it going forward. Online multiplayer is a plus
@RageBadgerGaming Жыл бұрын
Having played both, I much prefer the tabletop version.
@SeerMagicX Жыл бұрын
@@synnical77 Agreed. There is 0% chance I'll ever own Frosthaven in physcial form. I will buy the pc version day 1 when it come out.
@shaneannigans Жыл бұрын
I agree. I've almost completely abandoned video/computer games (including app-dependent board games) MUCH prefering physical versions... but this system is one exception.
@djb3v Жыл бұрын
Agreed and this would be a lame one. Gloomhaven video game? Hell no.
@giannisc.5254 Жыл бұрын
So, with all these stickers and stuff you open etc. Is this a Legacy "one and done" game ? How do you play again from the start if you put stickers on the main board and the rulebook ? I guess the ones in the rulebook you can ignore, but what about the ones on the board ?
@b.minister Жыл бұрын
I just watched his other video (and I own Frosthaven) and he said that it really isn't made to be replayed. I guess you could, but it would be a huge pain. You are putting stickers all over the place and opening things that can't be resealed. It's meant to be played through once, but for a very long time.
@giannisc.5254 Жыл бұрын
@@b.minister I'm guessing they might release removable stickers like they did for Gloomhaven Jaws of the Lion. Having said that, i strongly dislike altering the state of something i own so this is a major con for me. Whatever, every game doesn't have to be for everyone, so maybe this isn't for me. I'll just play something else. Thanks for the info !
@kafka0622 Жыл бұрын
How does it compare to other race games like Heat?
@UnimatrixOne Жыл бұрын
lol
@alcovitch Жыл бұрын
I don't think Frosthaven is a game for you if out of this video you thought comparing it to Heat was appropriate.
@kafka0622 Жыл бұрын
@@alcovitch Oh I know it's not a game for me but it compares just fine to Heat. They are both race games using cards.
@bedwyr84 Жыл бұрын
🤣🤣🤣 🎣🎣🎣
@alcovitch Жыл бұрын
@@kafka0622 They are NOTHING a like. You have a timer with your diminishing hand size, forcing you to be efficient, but in no way is Frosthaven (or gloomhaven) a race game. Comparing them is absurd.
@mattr8853 Жыл бұрын
Any thoughts on the app? Gloomhaven Helper was quite literally a game-changer and I'm wondering if Lucky Duck has pulled off the same.
@christopherlwilli Жыл бұрын
The app is quite buggy as of now. There have been rules mistakes, and some functionally hasn't been there. The old GH campaign manager was great; it's a shame they couldn't do this one as well.
@iamspamus8784 Жыл бұрын
@@christopherlwilli we use XHaven Assistant (the replacement for Gloomhaven assistant). It works pretty well.
@christopherlwilli Жыл бұрын
@@iamspamus8784 I'll have to check that one out. Edit: My first comment referred to how I miss the excellent campaign tracker from Esoteric software. The xhaven app is a great scenario assistant, though.
@Rincewindl Жыл бұрын
They really did strengthen the two weakest parts of Gloomhaven, the between mission step AND the story, the story actually made me tear up a little bit as the game described a long forgotten kingdom in such simple but powerful words.
@koalabrownie Жыл бұрын
These games both look cool but JotL is as far as I'll likely ever go and even then, it doesn't get played. I could only play it solo while watching my son but if it comes to a solo game I'll break out MU X-Men first.
@Kamo442 Жыл бұрын
A digital version would fix the downsides
@alejandrotuazon4831 Жыл бұрын
Imagine that the gloomhaven series of games has a longer setup time than kingdom death: monster
@Static442 Жыл бұрын
Way longer setup!
@Kentchangar Жыл бұрын
Critical miss and double damage, Tom said: "When you draw both of those you shuffle your deck" Is that a mistake or did the rules change?
@yobasux Жыл бұрын
It was also in gloomhaven. The cards have circular arrows which means shuffle at end of turn. Monster cards can have same icon
@Sgrand80 Жыл бұрын
It was always the rule. When you draw either, at the end of that combat phase shuffle the deck back together. The cards have the recycle type icon
@yogibbear Жыл бұрын
He's not teaching the rules, just briefly describing them so you can judge what's going on.
@Kentchangar Жыл бұрын
@@Sgrand80 Yes, that was the rule in Gloomhaven. He said: "When you draw both" instead of either which was confusing.
@frk0788 Жыл бұрын
Jaws of the lion: sweet spot
@dahobdahob Жыл бұрын
I'd like to watch this, but I'm still waiting for my box....
@KarpetRydOFunk Жыл бұрын
Oh, no! They're using that map reveal system they introduced in Forgotten Circles? I absolutely despised that! I don't care if it "spoils" the scenario a bit, I hated pausing the game to flip through the book and set up a new tile.
@Fwoggye Жыл бұрын
Okay then just read ahead and set up the whole map at once. That's the beauty of cardboard gaming, play it your way!
@Redskies45311 ай бұрын
I agree. I play solo so I just set up the whole thing. I might raise the difficulty one level as I do use the privilege of planning my entry to a room based on the occupants.
@GrimDarkDude Жыл бұрын
The master explains and reviews a masterpiece
@Noonycurt Жыл бұрын
I've played Gloomhaven for a while, but finally stopped because of setup and teardown time. Having even more of that is an absolute no-go for me.
@Rex1987 Жыл бұрын
have you tried Jaws of the lion? the book you have there makes setup super much more easy and effective. It one of the main reasons why i like it more.
@Noonycurt Жыл бұрын
@@Rex1987 Yes, I have, and it's fine. I'll probably buy the digital version on Steam.
@nicksims2827 Жыл бұрын
Regarding the difficulty - this is a major underrated strength to me. Tom found it hard, so he adjusted the difficulty and now he lives it. There are 8? difficulty levels. I can’t think of another game with that amount of variability. It means that it can be just challenging enough for everyone and you can adjust it depending on your party capabilities at the time
@kriskenmonroe1 Жыл бұрын
I just call it "Wisconsin, the game"
@stingray1666 Жыл бұрын
As a native Wisconsinite, I feel this. 🥶
@searose6192 Жыл бұрын
Happy to wait for Frosthaven digital
@koalabrownie Жыл бұрын
Why play a digital boardgame RPG instead of just playing a videogame RPG like Baldurs Gate 3? Or are the card mechanics that appealing?
@searose6192 Жыл бұрын
@KoalaBrownie I enjoy video games, but I haven't tried Baldur gate. I am somewhat picky about my video games though. They have to look incredible and be very open world (Oblivion/Skyrim etc) or be storytelling games for me to like them (though I like some indie artistic games). I don't like MMOs or turn based combat usually at all. I just recently tried Gloomhaven digital because I have had Jaws of the lion for 3 years and never had time/space to learn it and play it, so I used the digital as a way to finally get to play my game. I assume it will be the same with frosthaven (I will not have an hour for set up and tear down till my kids are grown) so, I guess it's a sad replacement for boardgaming time, not really a "video game" time in my mind. 😉
@koalabrownie Жыл бұрын
@@searose6192 Oh okay. Yeah I prefer Skryim type games as well but there are a lot of isometric, single player party RPGs that people enjoy. Pillars of Eternity, Tyranny, Wasteland. Pathfinder, etcetera. But if you picked up GH digital to feel like you enjoyed the tabletop game you own, that makes sense.
@searose6192 Жыл бұрын
@KoalaBrownie Thanks for the suggestions. I'll check those out 👍 Maybe by the time we get to Swamphaven I'll be able to play it😀
@briansavage9981 Жыл бұрын
We home ruled that if all the monsters are dead at the end of the scenario we get the gold on the ground.
@ilqrd.6608 Жыл бұрын
A masterpiece. 9/10. Hu.
@walt776 Жыл бұрын
I play miniature games that give me all the satisfaction of Gloomhaven with far less complexity and components. True, you do have to provide your own miniatures, but that is easy enough for fantasy games. That is why I think gloomhaven worked far better as a computer game than a board game, where a lot of the micromanagement was done by the pc.
@mccallosone4903 Жыл бұрын
agree 100 percent. im glad i played it on steam before i dug in my box, so i was able to sell my gloomhaven at full price. Frostgrave is superior to Frosthaven
@GGdeTOURS37 Жыл бұрын
I understood nothing LOL! May not be for us! We only play simple short games like Eclipse, Beyond the sun, Star Wars Rebellion or terraforming Mars. Nothing longer! Next one!
@foonshanks5655 Жыл бұрын
The card combat system in these games just isn't for me.
@elayeth Жыл бұрын
Tom uses cm… 👍🏻😊
@michaelaxton5005 Жыл бұрын
Cheating at Frosthaven so you don't have to. 🙂
@Dyskresiac Жыл бұрын
I loved Gloomhaven. But then I cooled on it after Jaws of the Lion. Jaws is just so superior. It's really refined. And I have a feeling I will cool on Jaws for Frosthaven. You can see the improvement, the playtesting, the feedback. I cannot wait.
@Mahler1988 Жыл бұрын
I don't really get the "cooling on Gloomhaven" part, I see it a lot nowadays. Well, that's the (big) base of the work and then the devs expanded on it. It is the masterpiece that broke all standards and renewed boardgames. It's like saying you've cooled on Mario Kart 64 because Mario Kart on the Switch exists.
@Dyskresiac Жыл бұрын
@@Mahler1988 I've cooled on it because it's not a masterpiece. It's no Mario Kart 64. It's SNES Mario Kart. It tried a lot of new things and a lot of them really broke ground. But many didn't. Retirement system is awful, the battle goals in Vanilla are bad. And Gloomhaven is just straight up broken. Triangles, Spears, Music Notes, and to a slightly lesser extent Lightning Bolt, Cthulhu, and Diviner break the game immeasurably. While we used to struggle early in GH the later half was one shotting without breaking a sweat. And the story was atrocious. Gloomhaven did a lot right. It also did a lot wrong. Jaws wasn't just an introduction it was also a distillation of the system. And it worked better without all the clunk and jank of Vanilla. Frosthaven is that refinement further and. It may very well be the Mario Kart 64 where you actually get to see the full realization of what they were trying to do with the predecessor
@Mahler1988 Жыл бұрын
@@Dyskresiac For me "cooling on it" has mostly to do with being tired or fed up with something, not looking back and saying in retrospect "nah, they could have done a better job" while it's clear that creating something new is the greatest effort there is. Refining is easier. Let's put it this way: in the history of boardgames, do you think historians will take Gloomhaven or JotL or even Frosthaven as a landmark?
@Dyskresiac Жыл бұрын
@@Mahler1988 You can define "cooling" however you want but if you use your own definition, expect that dissonance with other people using it. Cooling means it was once hot and easily in my Top 5, and nowadays I couldn't even bring myself to recommend it to anyone. It's still probably too 50 but it dropped immensely as the campaign went on. Start with JotL into Frosthaven. Skip Vanilla entirely I don't think what historians will say has any relevance in my reverence of a board game. Historians will cite Risk and Catan before Gloomhaven but I loathe both. They're not good. They're boring.
@manofaction1807 Жыл бұрын
This stinks of Shadows of Brimstone.... Color me interested.
@Slyfox1775 Жыл бұрын
Tear down and set up is nothing new here . We knew all this from the original.
@thomascocks9136 Жыл бұрын
Jaws of the lion was quicker. They could have adopted something like that
@alcovitch Жыл бұрын
THey could have fixed it but instead decided to rip everyone off with a 10$ app.
@Sgrand80 Жыл бұрын
@@alcovitch There is nothing to fix and the app is great.
@Johnsemgawl Жыл бұрын
The insert is a must. Best accessory I ever bought for a game (the Broken token one for GH)
@justinsmith332 Жыл бұрын
Knowing this from the original doesn't make it a good thing.
@LeeKenshin7 Жыл бұрын
I've played through most of GH and JoTL tabletop and it just became tedious with all the setup, upkeeping, rules, and tear down. Not to mention trying to meet regularly as a group. Eventually, I just solo GH 3-handed. Definitely gonna wait for FH to go on sale on Steam in a few years (I think I got GH digital for free). Will save me a lot of time and money in the backend. What percentage of gamers actually finished GH before the full digital version came out? I venture to guess that the number would be even less before FH digital is released.
@Rex1987 Жыл бұрын
that is if there will be a digtal version of Frosthaven. Currently there isnt any confrimed news about this.
@LeeKenshin7 Жыл бұрын
@@Rex1987 And I'd be fine if there isn't since I've already had the GH experience. Plenty of campaign dungeon crawlers and more to come. Though, I doubt Celophair would not do it especially since it can be built off GH digital. I wonder if they are just waiting to work on it until after retail copies are released. Let's see how well this comment ages in 2-3 years.
@iamspamus8784 Жыл бұрын
I like Gloomhaven on Tabletop Simulator (TTS) via Steam best.
@haukionkannel Жыл бұрын
@@Rex1987 Yeah... I really doubt that there would be FH computer game. GH computer game has not been very popular. People think that it is too difficult...
@joseroman3791 Жыл бұрын
My honest opinion is that this game series is just too tedious.
@robando2922 Жыл бұрын
I asked my friend if there was a lite version of these games and he said "yeah, D&D" lol seriously though cool game but a little to much for me.
@jonathangoodman9840 Жыл бұрын
A good starting point is Gloomhaven Jaws of the Lion. It is a smaller box that teaches the game over the first few missions. Only 4 starting characters which means you don't worry about retiring either.
@xCriticalStrikex Жыл бұрын
I mean I absolutely hated gloomhaven because it was so stupidly hard, not because the monsters were hard but because you'd just deck yourself out and lose. That isn't fun. I'll never understand the hype for it. Really wanted to give jaws of the lion a bash to hopefully get into it and lose that buyers remorse but I was so put off. You've said this is still insanely hard and thats all I needed to hear, I'll hate it.
@IamSalva Жыл бұрын
Jaws is just the same thing. First Missions ok, then the "harder" missions start, and your Deck starts to be the worst monster to fight...
@septimustavi9352 Жыл бұрын
Gloomhaven is focused primarily on the tactical combat...is an attack 6 but lose the card worth doing on an enemy that has 4 health? If its an archer, almost definitely yes (they always attack), if its an ooze then maybe not since they have 3 (maybe 4) out of 8 cards that are not attacks. Literally everything is situational. Gloomhaven also gets easier as your characters gain xp, gold and perks (especially the bonus perks from having retired characters) since the enemies level slower than your party and they dont scale based on how much gold you have spent on items and enhancements. Jaws of the Lion gets harder towards the end because you dont have as many options to spend gold on (enhancements are not a thing and there are fewer different equipment cards).
@tattooguy413 Жыл бұрын
Hate to say it… but this game is a haaaaard pass for me. Gloomhaven taught me, unfortunately, that prioritizing a career makes for not enough time to play something like this If they “Jaws Of The Lion” Frosthaven… I’ll check it out. Otherwise, nope Great review though Tom!
@Sinreal Жыл бұрын
You hate to say it? Really?
@tattooguy413 Жыл бұрын
@@Sinreal yes…. Because I’d love to be able to enjoy this game and it’s mechanics, but simply don’t have the time to due to a career But thanks for your rich comment :)
@henrikwakman7776 Жыл бұрын
It's too much, with not enough sense of reward. It's work, not play, for me.
@CptRoboto Жыл бұрын
The cynic in me is like, “just buy a table top rpg.” Set up is 30 . . . Seconds.
@TheBrokenMeeple Жыл бұрын
Not 1.1, 1.5, we at least give it that! 😁 If you like one or dislike one it will be the same for the other. I know I got no interest in it after disliking the original but I really just don't want to see #1 and #2 on BGG dominated by Haven games. 😒 If you are one of the fans though, you better have checked out Paul Grogans comprehensive tutorial video to learn to how to play the game.
@ilqrd.6608 Жыл бұрын
Why? How is that ruining your enjoyment of anything if BGGs ranking (which has huge issues) is dominated by Haven games?
@brianblessednn Жыл бұрын
@@ilqrd.6608 And don't forget, someone with no interest in the game already knows whether you'll like it or not.
@dean7713 Жыл бұрын
If they're that good, why not have them at #1 and #2? The enjoyment of the masses speaks volumes. Time will tell, if they're not your thing, oh well, play something else while we all grin psychoticly while exploring the tundra. 🥶🥶
@TheBrokenMeeple Жыл бұрын
@@dean7713 Then choose one of them otherwise we have the same Brass/Through the Ages /TI etc issue again
@duduoson5278 Жыл бұрын
Ahh Gloomhaven. A mediocre video game in board game form.
@anab0lic Жыл бұрын
hmm not really. I play a lot of these turn based tactical video games (Tactics ogre,Triangle strategy, FF tactics etc) and in terms of pure gameplay mechanics, Gloomhaven is up there with the best of them and separates its self from the rest with the card play mechanics. Stuff like graphics, storytelling, music etc isn't on the same level, but those are really the icing on the cake for me, gameplay is always king.
@duduoson5278 Жыл бұрын
@@anab0lic Ah, a fellow srpg afficionado! I get where you're coming from, yet I disagree. I just find Gloom boring, despite my initial enthusiasm towards it. To each his own I say. To everyone who loves Gloom and Frosthaven - play the shit out of them and enjoy :P