Currently using My Mk3 as the Brain of my studio with FLStudio21 alongside The Step up fr Maschine MK2 to MK3 greatly improved workflow

Do you make full songs, like you would in a DAW, or just 4 and 8 bar beats and loops?

@@JeffyG Right now, just beats.. soon I'll be getting either a couple more Volcas (bass and FM 2), or an SP-404... money willing!

@@JeffyG As soon as I have the rest of the hardware, I'll be recording live jams. Volcas into a micro-mixer in an M-Audio Duo ADC into my computer. Fairly retro.

I’m a complete novice and this is the route I took. Really enjoying the M8.

A copy of Renoise can be had for a fraction of the price, and would be a great place to try out the tracker workflow before committing to an M8 or Polyend.

I have the headless version as I already had the polyend tracker (which I've sold), but even that is amazing fun plugged into a phone or laptop. Definitely worthy of a mention, good shout.

@@Mookae5 Absolutely, Renoise is a great, cheap DAW. And M8 can be run “headless” on a $30 teensy 4.1 too. Lots of great options to test before committing.

@@Mookae5 Renoise is how I got into trackers, even runs on a Chromebook!

@Jaz tha Goron I did a whole album on it: music.kzfaq.info/sun/OLAK5uy_lJPSmwpFuY-zs5GkRenaVk2Zk32jmAjy0&feature=share and a video made on my iPad. music.kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ebWhpduDzM-7l40.html&feature=share

Sold my Deluge to get a Circuit Tracks and a MC-101 for that price

Modular you need to know what you want and is out there. Just starting out and adding without concept is expensive and often times ends up in disapointment.

GAS is so real with modular. I spent $4,000 on my system and still lusted after more

Euroracks are more rabbit holes than actual rabbit holes

Obviously true, low blow... but fair

True - I recently got a 707 which sounds fat and is fun, and found myself resisting buying an MPC after watching too much Bad Gear.

Are trackers beginner-friendliy? I mean it's a scrolling table of data, right?

Not at all. LOL especially if you don’t understand music theory and production basics. It will read like Mandarin.

@@towerrunner4675 It's way more simple than it looks, you can clearly see which note, instrument and fx are set in exact step. Polyend made a really good job to make it as intuitive as possible (just watch some jams and reviews, you'll get a pretty good impression)

@@raulgorgulio9834 Will it teach you how to make music like Ableton/Maschine/MPC or even FL studio? Of course not. In this modern day you don't need a tracker even though I myself considering the new mini tracker. I have love for music since I was a kid for family reason I couldn't get really into music until last year and I dedicated alot of time and efforts and spent thousands $ to get hands on experience. I got my engineering degree 7 years so I know exactly how to figure out most of the things I have without a manual or reference but that takes longer unnecessary time so I watch some videos and be on my own. I believe the cheapest way to start is Garageband with very easy setup and comprehensive library and very good demos and tools for beginners which can spark your inspiration and not get frustrated from the get go. Starting from scratch on groovebox have different impact on different people but I can say most of them will get stuck on it and stop exploring especially if money is short. Tracker on the other hand is just Raw Piano roll just like excel sheet which honestly beginner wouldn't even know what C2/F#3 and what velocity and FX to choose. MPK mini has keys/pads/knobs/cc enough to be able to have hands on with any daw and build database in your head with how actually notes and scale sound and even build a song from loops its okay, from there go anywhere you want get a tracker or even MPC X it doesn't matter. Keep in mind I'm talking about young beginners, if you know your way you know your way buy what makes you happy. That's my 2 cents.

​@@MS7.7 Comparing Polyend Tracker to old tracker software is a bit unfair. Maybe they share the same idea, but Polyend made a lot of effort to make it modern and easy to understand - every button has a label and you know exactly what will happen if you press something (and if you don't, there is an Undo button, so you can easily revert unexpected outcome). I'm a begginer myself, and I didn't have any problems with understanding the Polyend Tracker. The MC-101, for example, felt way more confusing. My main point here is that the Polyend Tracker deserves more love, people hate it's tracker UI and claiming it to be as confusing as rocket science, and that turns a lot of customers away from the device. But in reality, it's the same piano roll, but in different view, and it takes only a couple of minutes to adjust to it. Maybe it is not the best starting point for beginners, but I don't think that any groovebox is (maybe except for some POs just because they're cheap and fun, and Novation Circuit because it's also cheap on used market and simple to use).

the op-z is a machine with amazing capabilities but terrible build quality. The build quality comparison against something like a circuit is not even close.

@@randommcranderson5155 agreed, the build quality is atrocious. I got mine quite cheap (pre-bent!! 😂). I think TE are mad to keep pumping out all this toy crap, people are crying out for a grown up version of the OP-Z, elektron seems to be the way to go as I've become such a fan of conditional and per step variability. I don't feel the circuit sequencers quite measure up.

Although I never realised the circuits had probability on them so maybe I'm missing something here.

I still need to get into the Liven ecosystem, I definitely want to try the Lofi-12 at some point.

its also free on windows!

I've tried the SP-404 on camera (I still need to dig back into it), but it didn't strike me as beginner friendly as some of the other options here. That's definitely up for debate though, it has certain features that are very easy to use so people's milage may vary.

I love the Force, although because of its depth and complexity, I don't necessarily feel comfortable recommending it to beginners, especially someone who has never made electronic music before.

@@GabeMillerMusic Yeah, for someone totally new who doesn't know the concepts yet, an Ableton style device could be a steep learning curve. It would be easier to start with a looper and a cheap synth, like a RC-505 and a Microfreak. Those are a ton of fun, and great for learning and practicing.

Actual useful comments

MV1 is awesome, but not a great beginner option, the work flow isn't intuitive and there's tons of hidden menus. If you know what you're doing, it's killer, kinda Ableton-like in its work flow (seq, section, song is a lot like triggering clips, then triggering lines of clips, then arranging), and it has great sounds, but I would not rate it a beginner device. I really wish the pads were a lot better too.

@@isolabeats4271 I agree it does take time to learn, however like any MPC you have to sometime delve in, and like all of us watch KZfaq vids to get any satisfaction. But I will say something, I found the workflow more logical than the AKAI MPC X that I just sold. I simply couldn’t figure that one out. The pads on the MV are reasonable, but again there is only so much floor space the designers have to utilise on these tools, example AKAI force, the pads on those are small but for a reason. You talk of menu diving try using the MC-101 …. Ishhhh that hurts!!!

@@DM43685 don't have the 101 yet, but yeah it's a Roland thing for sure. The 404 is the same, there's tons of settings or features that involve weird combos of buttons, not logical at all. I have to say the MV1 is the harder one tho, pretty sure I still haven't found every menu! My Electribe 2 is the opposite, you can access every thing from the main menu, or use the pads as shortcuts. The pads are way better too. It's a lot more limited, but I love the simplicity, it feels more like an instrument than a Daw in a box.

@@DM43685 I don't know if I got a dud, but the pads on mine are terrible. Really hard, and don't often register hits. Compared to pretty much everything else I use it's pretty terrible. I use an external keyboard instead. It is still killer tho.

@@isolabeats4271 in honesty, I haven’t really checked, but when I get a spare 5 I might do a check between my Roland family to check the difference. Don’t have the 404, but I will add something, I wish Roland would add or design a bigger screen, I think that would solve a lot of issues all round. The largest screen I have is on the MC-707 but still I would yearn for a nice 5” led squared screen to see my work flow, the MV although states can connect to ZenBeats doesn’t and fails every time thus Roland fail in my eyes. I’m sure they will produce or make a MKII for us beat and song producers to poor our hard earned cash into 🤣

I started on a MPC one and it’s great! There’s a little bit of a learning curve but really capable and is my main piece to this day

There's something about it that sparks so much creativity for me, I'm a sucker for the punch in effects too.

@@beatsnbrews Yep, playing with FX is the final step before I export drum loops back into Ableton.

Yeah I think it's a good one for someone who's more familiar with the ecosystem and really knows what they want.

I agree. Just got a Verselab MV1 and a Keystep 37. I'm in dawless heaven.

the unbelievably tiny screen was so frustrating I returned it within a week. kudos to you for being able to work with it.

Screen is unacceptable, should have the one of the 707, then it would be good

Agreed! This is just for someone who's already decided they want to get into the world of grooveboxes.

Personally, I'd go Maschine, but the basics of the SP404 MKII are pretty easy to pick up. I found it a bit difficult to make stuff that was more in-depth on it though. I'd say 404 for someone really into lofi and resampling, Maschine for someone who wants to get further faster with polished results.

@@GabeMillerMusic Thanks for getting back to me, Gabe! So appreciated! 🫶🏻

He has videos dedicated to MC-707. Just look in his videos or search YT for Gabe Miller 707. ✌️

I've been meaning to do a video on exactly this, but the quick answer is the Novation Circuit Tracks, the Roland MC-101, and the Akai Force (not mentioned in this video, but I use it a lot).

Maybe eventually!

i think I'll get an electribe2 someday. but i always talk myself out of it.

@@jevogroni4829 Electribe 2 is so much fun, I always pick it up with its battery power and just jam out with it but I would strongly recommend using a micro sd card with an adapter so you can just take the micro card out leaving the adapter in the Electribe. I say this as I’m devastated that my Etribe sd card reader no longer works after all the ejecting and inserting.

Yeah I back the E2s, they're great fun. Quantize is always on, but they're great fun, and you can get some great results. I've managed to make it make great dub, hiphop, ambient and dnb, I don't quite agree with the dated sounds comment, they are what you make them. It's also a great sequencer for external synths etc.

@@isolabeats4271 yep I will stand by my Electribe and never part with it. I know it’s very dated but I love it

I might try it at some point! It's hard to justify since I don't think they're making them anymore, but looking at it did make me realize where Roland got the idea for the Verselab design from...

@@GabeMillerMusic I think the MPC may have been late too with that 7 inch screen. Issue is, no polymetrics. Pads are great, screen works well, they're still selling new,

For those of us with ANDROID - these others are not available so... meh.

While I love Grooverider GR-16. it's not the best option for a beginner in my opinion. I was that beginner who had no idea what a groove box was and was frustrated with the app. I gave up on it and came back once I understood how things work. The key is a beginner and finding something that gets your pallet interested vs drowning in frustration. While Koala by definition is not a groove box, it's easy to use and is a great way to determine if you want to enter the rabbit hole or find something else of interest.

@@pesto12601 aah okay, different story :-)

As someone mentioned Better than koala, Korg gadget with the basic gadgets.

Deluge is definitely not for beginners, it’s a quite complex …

I’ve heard lots of great things about the deluge. Just know that it’s pretty complex/deep compared to the Circuit line, which can be good or bad depending on your needs. But if you’re willing to put in the time to learn the Deluge it’s basically the best groovebox on the market for making full tracks.

Deluge has tons of functionality, actually not that difficult to enter basic tracks with lots of capability for fleshing out full songs. I have problems staying oriented as to where I am in the song and I notice other people (eg Free Beat) encounter this as well. The biggest hurdle with Deluge is the price ($1400 gulp), I find the OLED screen is worth the extra price, but obviously not something a beginner would want to dive into blindly.