Ork players: "Wait, you guys don't completely turn every mini inside out until its feet are bullets and its arse is a combat helmet? Follow the instructions? Huh..."

Couldn't agree more. I only wish all the factions got even half the attention that Marines do. Imagine what Eldar would look like if they got the same love that Necrons did for Indomitus.

I miss getting complete extra weapons. Marines used to come with weapons sprues so you could stick extra guns on peoples belts or bases. Now most guns are part of someone's arm so even if you cut them off they are missing handles.

I've always said this: Don't let monopose get in the way of reposing.

I think the main issue with the newer mono-pose kits people dislike is the lack of options and customisation. While the older kits were less pretty, at least you had more flexibility in how they were equipped, and kit-bashing without intense modelling was an option. Units felt more customised and personalised. But nowadays they're carbon copies of each other. All the new Space Marine Captains look the same and have the same gear, for example. But the older plastic kit had a ton of different options and parts could swapped with other Space Marine (or Chaos Space Marine) kits, making a unique, personally tailored captain different from all your mates.

For me, I prefer modular as they are much easier to kitbash with other kits

And I'm over here remembering when nearly all GW minis came as mono-pose metal lumps and AT BEST you might be given the choice of a few guns to stick in their hand.

what we lack are options in the boxes. I say more different head options, special weapons (this in particular for primaris) and more different icons and emblems for customizations.

Nothing! i repeat nothing, in the hands of a kitbasher is monopose. This is the way.

My first army is T'au, where all the infantry have has separate arms, legs and torso. The arms and legs are in fixed positions, but you can combine and angle them freely. They're great fun to assemble, and you get pretty unique models you can make up little stories for. Then I got some Sisters... very disappointed to see that the extent of customization was basically swapping arms out for different weapons, and heads. Poses all fixed, you pretty much get what's on the box. Anytime you see someone else post a picture of their minis, they look the exact same as yours. They're still cool models, but it's just kind of disappointing... Seeing the same Bladeguard or Necron dude a million times also makes me lose any eagerness to get them myself.

I think it depends, big impressive models should be monopose to look as good as possible while smaller ones you have more of should be variable to give them as much individuality as possible

Considering all the kits of mainline gw are plastic, the idea that we are stuck with models as designed is ludicrous to me. I have replaced spear shafts with brass rod on metal models, i have reposed, resculpted and chopped them up with jeweler saws. Let me tell you that what i could do in a day, i often can do in minutes now with the plastic kits.... and with much simpler tools.

I'd like more options with characters, to be honest. Firstborn captains for example, get base stats and then loads of options - add a power weapon, fancy pistol, jump-pack. The new Primaris captain gets some options (though no model outside the single loadout in Indomitus yet), but the Gravis, Phobos, and the captain with the Heavy Bolt Rifle are just one and done. More of a rules gripe at this point though... Either way, the sculpts are undeniably sharper, we lose relatively little in the way of posing, and with the kits being plastic, if you do want to go for it you'll have a much better time than when half of your army was monopose single cast pewter models. 3D printers are another way you can seriously alter your kits, I'm planning on printing copious numbers of bits for my Templars.

This monopose legs/body with modular arms, head and accessories sound to as the perfect blend. Other companie did it for great effect, and most of the time the waist joint have just one or two "not odd" positions. To be fair: many of my space wolves look a little odd in the waist.

The golden age of 40K was Rouge Trader played as a RPG. Whats a mini? :D

I am a lover of modular kits over monopose peronally. But i do feel these intricate monopose kits do also have a place. Especially when it comes to characters. Great video. A topic that has been at the forefront for me lately. Very interesting points you make.

Well put. I do disagree on some points, but overall your analysis was quite good. However, I do prefer having the option to combine different kits and their best bits to build a model I really love and that perfectly represents the idea that formed in my head. And those monopose/ hybrid models usually don't allow for that to happen. At least not without serious effort.

You are like the Miniatures Moderate, it doesn’t matter what you talk about you always thing of both sides and find a reasonable middle ground, love the channel and all the content

If I got a tactical marine box, sternguard veteran and assault marines I had a lot of combination. I think newer kits lack that to some extent it's not impossible just a bit harder imo

"The only constant in the Universe is change." Tzeench; Laughs in 'Just as planed'

As someone who has just recently got into the hobby, I’ve been very thankful for the Sisters of Battle box that I found. I’m starting to understand why I’d like more options in the future, but having it be relatively simple at first has made it easier for me to eventually take the deep dive.

I absolutely LOVE how much the model art is improving over time, and I also enjoy the kits you can put together. I think there's room for both!

J.J. Abrahams Reboot? this isn't really positive

I've really been loving these recent videos. Keep up the good work!

My only quibble is that new figures that feel like they should be hybrids are some times monopose, like the various generic sm hqs or the new slaves to darkness start collecting which is entirely mono pose save for head choice and weapon option on the knights (but not warriors)

Really great discussion, i too have noticed the quality of the miniatures improve. I remember the space orks :D

Loving your approach! Excellent points& illustrated well. Thanks. Have a great Christmas

I feel very rebellious everytime i change a monopose model into something else.

With the way the video ended, you'd think this was an EoB stream... Great rundown of the details and history of monopose vs multipose.

I just love your editing and script in these videos. Thanks for all that passion :D

Just found this video, but I agree. A lot of historical plastic minis makers were using the combined body/leg for years before GW went that way. The best of them (e.g. Victrix Limited) use limited bodies with specific options for head and arm swaps. Works great.

Well thought out and well put. Enjoy the hobby, it's amazing to be getting these awesome sculpts at this time. And since they're plastic, it's pretty easy to customize if you really want to!

Really entertaining and you looked at the matter from many angles. Great video!

The golden age of poseable models has been much shorter than many of the people shouting about it make out - up until post 2000, most things were still metal and therefore monopose, and the move to plastics was gradual and took a long time to kick in for a lot of armies. Plus, the idea of kitbashing different kits together applies to far fewer armies than people think (space marines, orks... yeah, I’m about out of ones where the option matters now). But then, I’ve always hated having to put together 8 parts to get a single tactical marine, so was never a huge fan of those kits anyway, no matter how cool the idea of all those options was.

I am really glad I watched this. I've been playing 40K since 87-88. I would like to add that even the original kits like RTB01 Space Marines or the Imperial Guard/Squats/Ork kits were all hybrid kits like you describe. To me, GW has tried hard to be both a competitive company and give good product to its customers. I really liked how you wrapped this video up. That kind of insight, that we don't want to rain on someone else's golden age, that's something that's truly valuable. I belong to several groups that focus on 1st and 2nd edition and there are a lot of people there who could benefit from that kind of insight. Thanks again.

Another great video, dude. Your channel is quickly becoming one of my favorites.

Really nice video! It made me think about this topic in a different way!

This burp at the end won my subscription XD I love your work !

I enjoyed this video. I am just getting into 40k myself after playing heroclix for 5 years. I just assembled my first box which was the indomitus box set. I love the way they look and assembly was not too hard. Even though some poses are not the greatest i feel its easier for new people to get into the hobby when something dosent have a whole crap ton of options.

Ending on a classy note there, I see. Frankly, I wholeheartedly agree. Most people wont build an entire chapter worth of marines. A playable army these days is often enough 2-3 squads and a vehicle or three. You dont need 500 unique poses to do that and the 20 or so variations in the hybrid kits are more than enough to cover for what you need while looking better. A couple of shiny examples of successfull kitbash-conversions of monopose models would have reinforced the message about possible conversions a little bit, but yeah. The models look better now than ever before, conversions require more skill but are still possible, life is good (down in the hobby basement).

I noticed this myself when building intercessors. Yes there are certain poses you are ‘stuck’ with but the models look so much better than the old tactical marines.

When you showed the hammerfall, i laughed out loud. Ouch

For myself things have kind of gone full circle, when I started in the hobby thirty odd years ago majority of the models were single pose cast lead and the very first multi pose plastic marines had been released. This was back when the very first edition of Warhammer 40,000 Rouge Trader was released. I think if we want better looking models then options and poses will have to be more limited which is a shame but something I willing to accept for the time being as Games Workshop could always decide at some point to change direction again in their design process or find a middle ground between the two in the future .

Hey Jay, interesting video! Can you tell me @10:29 which books that have the ultramarine and inquisitor and the chaos renegade lord shown? Thanks! Cheers

Great video Jay. Keep up the fantastic content. 🤓👍🏻

"The only constant in the universe is change" Okay Tzeentch

Hi! The Letter J here! You could allways base the models differently from each other. Keeping those debris bases sufficiently random will make each model look slightly different. Then, the modeler him/herself can "kick it up a notch" and get some tools like a hobby saw, a pinvice, some wires for pinning, some CA glue, some files, greenstuff and milliput. Then you can change the pose of those monopose models yourself. 👍👍

"The Exterior Ring"...AH...I see what you did there! The Salt Must Flow! Amazing Video, has always!

The quality and variety of the new sculpts is incredible. I started with the 2nd ED Space Marines who gently supported their bolters. These dynamic, action packed poses are awesome. Kitbashers are always gonna kitbash and the third party market is stronger than ever if you want to mix in some more modular minis.

One of Grandma’s pearls of wisdom was the adage, “Variety is the spice of life!” I love collecting all kinds of models from multiple manufacturers. Games Workshop characters and war machines that I custom build from the products of other companies is one of my favorite things. I don’t go to GW official events, so relax.

I got the starter paint set of neurons for last saint Nicolaus day. I just completely ignored the instructions and used my modeling knive, some old thick glue and a candle to make them whatever I want as a pose. And it worked and now I have three models which are probably quite unique

Thanks for your content. I rebeginn with 40k and its nice to hear your infos and hints =)

Can’t agree more mate I collect space Wolves and the amount of head swaps and arm pads I’ve done make them more unique to my army

"The good old days" ...Do people even think about the models of the early 1990s?

I would say the issue is to do with the loss of cross kit compatibility. Tactical box works with devastator box which works with assault box and so on, but intercessor doesn't work with anything. There is no reason for a set of legs to keyed to a torso and arms. The only reason the old models aren't dynamic is because of the technology of old. You can have an advancing leg pose which would be as swappable as the standing poses. If Primaris kits were like Firstborn kits in terms of interchangability, there wouldn't be an issue. The difference is Hard Clones vs. Soft Clones. Primaris have hard clones and firstborn have soft clones.

You are a good KZfaqr. I enjoy you videos. Always find the way of humor

monopose make it infinitely harder to convert though, at least with modular kits you didnt need to go hacking into torsos to remove them.

I enjoy both types of models It's nice to be able to pose your minis in different ways but it's also nice to have you minis in more dynamic poses

2:52 The Exterior ring ... I see what you did there I see what you did there XD geart video man !

Another fantastic video. I love your style since you had your own JJ Abrams reboot. You deserve to make a living out of this. Can every video end with a belch please? That one had a nice raspy quality, it would be great to get a really deep, bassy one next if possible.

I've been chatting with a few folks in the 40k ork community about this. We were comming to a very similar conclusion. Great discussion. Thanks for that.

Im a kind of weird person in this case i love old marines and New ones and even the (heroes ones ) "they are the old ones but well posed", the only thing i dont really like so much are the marine tanks, because the old tracked rinos and landraiders looks more ww1/space grimdark thant the new floating tonks but its just personal, in fact i love the new direction of gw, and i love how they still keep the old models "usable" in game with new monopose models. Yep they are a company but they are also nerds (like us) and known their heritage and i love how they preserve it, as well they try to keep evolving it.

I started with primaris and the new necrons. I've just picked up an Ork start Collecting ans what should i say? I hat it that i have to figure out the poses. I wanna draw and play this things. Not figuring out what would might be the best pose and getting it wrong at the end. I loved my firs reiver Box where i only really had to choose which weapon i wanna use.

1:08 the stalker with the drum actually also has an option to use the same weapon as the other 3

When I first started playing warhammer in the 80's white metal monopose figures were the only options available so I'm used to these types of figures, it was only later when modular kits became available

AHAH ! love the ending "word". :)

I'm very new to the hobby. There are some very detailed models like the Nighthaunt army that are difficult to modify in any way. However, I've found that most humanoid units are very easy to kitbash with some clippers and a file. I also find that rotating the head of a unit dramatically changes the feel of the pose so much so that I wouldn't even call it the same pose.

What i think people also miss is the amount of interoperability between primaris. To create an intercessor you can use the base kit, the dark imperium kits, hellblaster kit, assault intercessor kits. It is very easy to have a whole army with different poses and looks. The primaris are also very easy to kitbash

I like the weapon options, and the pose, with a little green stuff, you can position the arms more dramatic poses.

I feel like some mono-pose-ness is still B.S. like necron skorpekh destroys having their arms molded to their torsos. It’s a simple ball and socket joint. Having them separate and not fused would give me a LOT more options, and I want more than 3. I even ended up hacking up my second batch of them and made cooler poses than the intended ones.

My pork with GW's new Primaris range is how, even pose-ability issue aside, there's little to none variation in their armor. Like, even if those plastic guys are each in a different pose, their backpacks, chestplates, helmets and legs are identical to each other.

'The Exterior Ring', Haha brilliant burn

Infinity and warmachine both put out kickass models without any serious modularity

I started 40k in 8th edition, so to me, Primaris stuff is crazy cool and what i like to collect. I think the kits are poseable enough, and while i do look back sometimes in wonderment at the sheer interchangeability of the old space marine range, I still like the finished product of the Primaris better.

worth noting that in it's early days GW only produced monopose figures, it was years until they even gave them seperate plastic arms, the models used to be one piece casts of white metal

"Constant of universe is change" "For change, something has to die" "Everything has to die some day"

I would just like to take a moment to remember the massive pain in the ass assembling my older multipose kits was, especially ball joints. Ever sit there trying to glue one fitted part to another but it just wont stay and then when it finally does an hour later its slipped a bit and is now wrong? Because this happens all the time with the multipose ball joints. Also when all the pieces of the kit have to work with any and every other piece in the kit they have to be within a certain amount of similarity to be assembled.

Great stuff friend 👏 👍

Wonderful video! I agree with all that you said. I don't know how anyone can argue against your correlation between the current art and modern model designs.

Interesting discussion mate. I've been converting 9 monopose Gargants recently and have found joy converting but green stuffing and cutting up an expensive mode isn't for everyone. It's a confidence that grows with time in the hobby

as someone who got introduced during 7th but only got into it at the beginning of 9th i personally think that 8th model wise was the golden age of 40k

I can chop up my mono pose models pretty easily. I’ve customized all my bladeguard from the indomitus box and they all look quite different than they were supposed to.

When I bought my csm just recently I had not been in the hobby for about 3 or 4 years and when I slid those sprues out and looked at them I definitely needed to change my jockeys a couple times lol

😆 we both have race car practice on the same date! Awesome!!🤘

With the Indomitus box I just clipped off the pegs to give me more options on how to glue the arms to the torso's. it's not great but it's something.

Tau XV8 suits have superb pose customization, all ball and socket joints for the limbs.

Lmfao man when you slid the money across the table and had the single model in the drug bag made me laugh my ass off.

"The Exterior Ring" hmmm.... wonder who that might be referring to.

Modular is great for kit bashing and for customisation. However, it all depends on the quality and the choice of the model. As a Imperial Guard lover, I have to say, customisation is key but only because of lack of choice. When you need an army with 4 times as many troops, you want them to stand out and you want them to be unique. But even in a Cadian box, you are very limited. You have the choice of heads arms and backpacks, but the bodies are the same and so basically are the arms and heads. You can add a vox caster. That's cool. You can add a seargant with las pistol and chaisword, but only those options. You can have helmeted head or 1 non helmeted. You can have bayonets on your las guns or non, but not enough for all to have them. You can have a flamer or grenade launcher, but no plasma. Each pack you buy ultimately looks the same. You may have one squad with grenade launcher and one with flamer. Or you might have a seargant with helmet or no helmet. But it all looks the same anyway. Modular options for Imperial Guard are lacking. So let's compare this to the monopose Imperial guard that came before. You bought a pack of 10 completely monopose Cadians. But there were blisters of seargants with plasma pistols, power swords, power fists, seargant hats etc. You could get the plasma gun Cadians. You could get sniper Cadians. No modular Cadians and yet, if you spent a little more on blister packs, you could ultimately get more options. And that's not all. Imperial guard had Catachans, Mordians, Steel Legion, Valhallans, Tallarn, Praetorians and more. There was more variation in regiments. And this may be a little controversial but I personally prefered the models for old Cadians ever so slightly. I definitely prefer old Catachans to the plastic modular ones. So would I prefer to have the modular Cadians and Catachans of today, or the old monopose Imperial Guard of all regiments from the past metal days. I'll take the old monopose. You see, Space Marines are lucky enough to have so many options that they can pretty much do anything. Wether monopose of modular, you can build a unique army. And with packs that offer space wolf or blood angel shoulder pads and flags etc, you really do have so much choice that it doesn't really matter about the style of model. Imperial Guard is so lacking by comparison, I would take whatever I can get. And if it means plenty of options but in monopose, I'll take it. I mean if they want to make their modular packs more diverse with lots of extras, that would be great. But just re-releasing old monopose model would also be epic.

Milti pose is muuuuch easier to convert, at least for guard. I can do the ETB ones just fine, but it’s so much easier to do when all the pieces are separate and I can combine heavy weapon arms and infantry legs.

A huge part of this I think is that the old kits could be kitbashed together easily. At one point you could buy the previous chaos Marines, a tactica kit and one of the mark 3/4 kits. And just throw them together for a really cool slapdash renegade warband. It was easy and approachable. But I can see the advantage of the hybrid kits. Cpt. Lazarus is a great kit and with minimal work can be made into anything that's dark angel or similar.

The oly multipose box ive got which was worth building is the ork slugga/choppa boyz. All the other boxes you cant do much beyond whats on front of the front box anyway

I think the only thing I do miss is when there would be a Chainsword or something whole on a sprue so you could place it mag locked to the Marine or Chaos Marine or their vehicles without having to carve away a hand to get the same effect. I still think the new Primaris plus upgrade kits and tactical upgrade kits are great when kit bashing. I am more into the painting and modelling side so I love the artistic side a lot. .

Last edition i played was 2nd edition.... and warp spiders havent had any new models since?

Reason and logic regarding 40k stuff? Dont go with that to any warhammer forum of facebook group. They will tell you that one sould not seek those qualities in this hobbyverse. Thats a good approach, and i think the hybrids allow for even more creativity, because they push us to do more than change the angle of the torso. And lets be honest, if a person is going to have a problem kitbashing indomitus intercessor, they are probably not the creative one.

I'm a newbie to actually playing 40k, and I really like the indomitus push fits. I can assemble them and still remove arms to make painting easier. On top of that they just seem cleverly made to me :)

Thank you for putting out this video. But I have to say, there is one thing I prefer with the multipose/modular kits: It the spare parts, also known as bits/bitz. Even if you build up the unit as intended, the extra parts are worth a lot for conversions and kitbashes. (sometimes even give you more out of one box, with the help of either 3rd parties or 3D print) All this extra stuff is why I prefer modular over mono/push fit/etb models. (except I like the price of the etb ^^)

I remember hacking pewter minis to repose them. Back when you can order pewter bits from the Citadel catalogue

The best thing of multy modular minis are the quantity of extra bits you get out of. Sure, some Vets are drowning in them, but I as a newcommer really like to build whole new unique models out of my bits box and it breaks my heart to see after assembling mono modular kits just an empty grid.

Saw the outer circle shout out your vid and decided to check you out. Great video