When she said if you are going to play trains, do it somewhere else, I felt offended on every level

I’d kill for a home in the country with steam engines running through it regularly :DDD

Toy choo-choos, really, they need to research hard about all the good the railway will do for their local economy, and just because they're small, doesn't mean they can't do anything but pollute the air (although not very much as most exhaust is just condensed steam) and take up space. P.S visit the Lincolnshire Wolds Railway, lovely little line, very accomodating.

Very much agree. They have a right to object, but I wish it were with views that were more logical. Their naive statements say it all...

These railways have significant historical, cultural and social value like other physical structures, such as historical buildings or ships. Demeaning their preservation by calling it "Disneyfication" shows a lack of awareness of what makes the UK the UK.

Wait a minute what 40% Good 43% Fair ...18% Poor? 101%?

What angered me about the situation wasn't that they thought it would pollute or that they opposed it at all, as pollution is a valid concern and they have the right to object as it is their land. What DID anger me was their condescending attitude towards the railway. "Choo Choo Trains", "Toy Trains", "Disneyification"? Really? They have no idea how much effort and hard work goes into railway preservation, not to mention the historical value, and they're just going to dismiss it as "toys" without knowing anything about it? That's just insulting and doesn't make for a very strong arguement. I'm glad the L&B did get to extend the line in the end.

I hope this gets shown to these two ladies asap!

An excellent defence of the L&B Chris, with a polite dismantling of the silly arguments made against it. The women's ridiculous comments are of a type which many of railway enthusiasts have heard before to belittle them and their hobby and I can understand it has triggered many in the hobby. But you know what guys? They lost! So lets have a chuckle at their silly and petty arguments and crack on with the next stage of reconstruction of the L&B without the toxic name calling and threats.

Well stated. No matter what is done there will always be NIMBYs.

what's funny is that in even coal and oil burning engines the exhaust is mostly steam. Though there is an organization stateside who are going to convert a coal-burning Santa Fe locomotive into an engine that burns what I call for lack of a better set of words "wood pellets" that burn hotter and possibly longer while being cheaper to make than coal is to mine. If she's that wacky about hugging her trees then she can look them up. They're called the Coalition for Sustainable Rail (I think you should cover them sometime and see what their success could mean for rail preservation, they've already succeeded on much smaller locomotives and going full scale will be outstanding)

Thanks Chris, an interesting perspective on the issues at hand. One minor correction though: planning permission WAS granted to demolish the bungalow at Parracombe Halt - it was just the construction of 2 semi-detached homes close by that was rejected, which does not affect the reinstatement project.

The thing that got me was the lack of evidence for the majority of their points against as you have pointed out. It seemed to me as they dont want it in their back garden and would try and say anything to stop it as the bigger picture means nothing to them

Congratulations, L&B. Here’s to the next chapter of your line’s reopening!

Good delivery! This isn’t a complete throw down of all their points, it’s calm, understanding. This is the type of argument I wish was more common instead of blindly insulting people.

20 years ago the Puffing Billy Railway here in Australia faced the same opposition to extending their line by land owners who used to use the old trackbed as a convenient shortcut to their properties. Now it is an accepted part of the landscape and by the community through which it runs - a narrow gauge railway making the absolute minimum intrusion on the countryside.

@3:23 That beautiful Lyn builders photo brought me here. 😃 @6:00 Lyd is such a lovely little steam engine too.

I hate it when I’m arguing or talking about railways to a non railfan and they say “Choo choo” it makes me want to push them off a bloody cliff. It’s so aggravating to hear and it’s so overused and doesn’t even sound like any noise a locomotive makes

New drinking game: Take a shot every time that guard waves his flag.

Very nicely put. I remember Bury and Ramsbottom before the ELR reopened. Both towns needed a bit of a boost and the influx of tourists was just the thing needed. Ramsbottom in particular has faired very nicely from being connected by rail, so much so there are now various groups who want the ELR converted to the Metrolink tram system. Many people from "up the valley " come to Bury by ELR on market days. Its quicker and more convenient than bus or car and now that has been recognised the locals want a 7 day railway/ tram shared system because they know it's the heritage railway that has been the reinvigorator of the towns in the Irewell valley.

Reviving/reopening an old railroad line is a lot more ethical than tearing down the line.

The way around a problem like that is to make sure the householder is compensated for having to move.

This reminds me of the controversy surrounding the Durango & Silverton Railway after a forest fire that was likely caused by one of their coal burning locomotives. The fire came very close to civilization but was contained before it could destroy any homes. Many people were understandably shaken and wanted to see the railway closed to prevent future fires, but others who always hated the railway took advantage of the event to campaign its demise. What neither seem to understand is that the railroad is the whole reason their towns still exist. Without it, both Durango and Silverton would likely have been abandoned or become ghost towns the moment the mines went dry with only a few adventurers visiting to see the sights only the railroad can offer. But because the railroads are there to give people rides and to give Hollywood access to many of these beautiful locations, they are more alive than ever. Again, I don't blame the people who could have lost their homes, but these should be expected with steam trains. I say if you can't handle living with trains, then move somewhere that doesn't have them.

Kinda nicely interesting how he listed a lot of the locations the film crew of Full Steam Aheaf visited in their series on British railways.

Great video, I really hope these two snobs, and they are ill informed snobs, don't have any real influence. The railway should never have been removed, it was there long before these two arrived and should come back. The pollution argument just does not stack up. The benefits to the majority far outway and ill perceived arrogance by these two.

Another thing is that the railway will create more than just tea room jobs, there would be jobs for engineers for working on the locomotives and jobs for people working on carrages and wagons even apprenticeships one day and track maintenance and the list goes on.

That is the unfortunate thing about environmental activists, they often start an opposing campaign against such things because of the environment, whilst not taking into consideration the economic and job factors in the area. This is common in Less Economically Developed Countries for environmental activists to 'fight' against the proposals of bringing back a quarry to bring back jobs in areas, thus rejecting the opportunity of jobs. The difference in this case is that they live in the "affected" area, as to in the LEDC cases where they don't. And as you have done some research into the overall benefits. The balance shows that it is beneficial.

Long story short, the issue essentially says there are people who exaggerate the notion of everyone for themselves, failing to comprehend more than one point of view in a matter. Which is what can happen in fandom terms as well as a case like this, I might add; hence riots and unfair speculations. Regards, Samuel Farris.

Those two are seriously not in touch with reality, the only thing they have done is embarrassing themselves on TV.

It’s disappointing that heritage railways in America don’t have as much prosperity than in the UK.

I went here last August, just before they got their new Southern Loco. Then I went on the Lynmouth Cliff Railway, then a Pub and then an Ice Cream Shop, I used many services here only because I went to the railway.

As an railfan myself, I would go for the Railway. However, I least understand why people would object to the L&B coming in.

Good video. No excuse for attacking these two and I am sorry if they encountered such horrible treatment. As for their arguments, they're probably just resistant to change, though I can understand the environmental concern - if it's a bit vague. Coal burning steam trains can be mucky - as someone who works on them I always end the day covered in grime and stinking of bitumen - but there seem to be few complaints and environmental impact is surprisingly minimal as far as I know. Much less than a road or even a main line track. Mostly it seems to affect the volunteers more than anyone! I chalk the "choo-choo-toy-trains" as the girl just being silly and immature because she's just a young pup opening her mouth without thinking. Both might change their mind if they visited a steam railway and spoke to locals and businesses in regard to the railway, and maybe even saw the work that volunteers put into them.

ELLA HUNT,THEY AREN'T BLIDDY TOYS! GEEZE CARS ALSO MORE POLUTIVE THEN STEAM ENGINES

One of the main points that really gets my goat is when Mrs Grob said about needing clean air. You have made some very valid point in this video about emissions and traffic that may be taken off of the roads, but i think another valid point is that the largest center of population next to the proposed extension is Parracombe, which has no mains gas supply... That means no central heating in pretty much every house in the village (with exception of a few with outside gas tanks) has either a coal, wood or oil burning fireplace or stove. Being local i can tell you that in the winter months most towns and villages in the area have a wiff of sulfur with a light smokey mist hanging in the air. So i think the argument of pollution from one or two engines that burn coal far more efficiently than any home fireplace could is completely invalid.

Once again, Chris, you've managed to put out another excellent edition of GTI. One of the things I love most about this series is your ability to give your two cents on a particular issue in a way that's civil, impartial, humourous _and_ understandable to both Joe Average and Joe Rail-Enthusiast, and this edition is no exception. I also love the accompanying visuals in each episode, and I got a huge laugh out of the sudden appearance of _Sid The Sexist_ at 1:30 , having only discovered the cartoon the other day!

I have just discoved this video following a link being posted in connection with the Rother Valley Railway. Interestingly the RVR has a similar issue with landowners and has applied for a TWAO and is currenlly awaiting a Public Inquiry - this has been delayed by COVID-19 restrictions. The L and B have another Planning application in to correct something in the one referred to by this video - this has lead to objections from the same people. There are two points to be made:- (1) the reinstatement of the railway is part of the local plan and (2) if the Local Authority reject the current application they will have an uphill struggle at appeal since they had already given permission. It is also worth saying that a lot of the engines used will be new builds which are much more efficient and will case less pollution. I understand that the L and B are about to apply for a TWAO to obtain powers to construct the railway - we will have an opportunity to write in to give our views. This is not a quick process and there is likely to be a Public Enquiry.

I’m so excited for the railway reopening :)

as someone who frequents the Romney, Hythe & Dymchurch railway, i can assure these women that these engines while Diminutive in size can and will still kill if they strike you down, even the garden "ride on" style of locomotives weigh in excess of 1 1/2 tonnes which will easily crush you to death if they derail onto you Toys these Trains are not, if you want a toy buy that cheap plastic Trackmaster junk Mattel puts out

I don't even live in the Country, but I'm excited for the Railway, I don't even understand their arguments - The Rail line will bring nothing but good to the area.

Just listened to this all the way through and I'd have to say well done Chris. The points you made were excellent and well delivered. I'm a steam fan too so I'd love L&B to keep extending but looking at this video neutrally, it is brilliant. You address each point in a calm, thoughtful manner and don't slag off either party. Keep it up.

as a Devon boy I can't wait for this line to be extended I've studied it for year read so many books anyway after watching it on bbc spotlight first time round and ill hold my hands up I said horrible things about the mother and daughter and was going to take it to the internet then other things got in the way it really did upset me how mainly the daughter where being very belittling about it as someone with autism I really don't like that I've had it happen to me so I may have taken a bit more personally then I should of but anyway after watching this video I've seen your view point and it helped me to understand the situation more so thank you very much abd keep up the amazing work sir

I visited the UK over Christmas and rode the East Lancashire Railway Santa Train and it was FANTASTIC!

Great job explaining this Disneyfication news that has been going around. It’s very understandable you shared and I’m sure this helps railway fans to understand about it better.

Whenever I see those engines, I instantly think of the NA class from the puffing billy railway in aus

When I saw the news report about this I straight away thought: 'This is going to be a topic for Gauge the Issue'.

As usual Chris, you have hit the nail on the head!

First I've heard about this since I'm in the US. Hope it gets opened though, I would love to see it on a visit. I thought it might have something to do with the fact that Disney was a huge rail fan. lol

Don't forget all the historic railroads here in America where pritty much the entire running fleets of said railroads are steam

No offence but let the ladies stick to knowing absolutely nothing about running a VOLUNTEERED RAILWAY And send them back to their cottage and let the L&B keep doing what they're doing Damn mindless muppets

The assessment you made on Louise Grobb and Ella Hunt's statements are well thought out, and you highlight Exmoor's public transport problem very well. That point felt coincidental to Arizona's Grand Canyon National Park between 1968 and 1989. Ever since the Grand Canyon Railway reopened the 64-mile line from Williams to the South Rim in 1989, automobile traffic has been reduced. If the Grand Canyon Railway can help with improving on public transport, then I'm confident that the Lynton & Barnstaple can do the same for Exmoor.

Chris, your productions are top notch. Photography, concepts, editing, pacing, music and presentation on camera. . But your writing! You are amazing! Outstanding. So talented. I wish I could write like you. I look forward to everything you do.

The one dislike is from Louise Grob...or is it Snob? Probably the latter!

Mate, you are so great at getting facts I was sitting here going OH DAAAAMMMN!

Did they actually extend the line in the end?

You are right in saying the engineering facility at blackmoor gate WILL create jobs more than “tearooms” A Quote From the L&B Themselves: “The extension of the line will provide a major boost to the tourist industry of North Devon. It will directly support 24 full-time jobs and many more in the wider service sector locally. Apprentices will also be trained in the engineering centre.”

Thanks for doing this Chris. As a trainee fireman of the L&B I was outraged by some of the pathetic excuses some people plucked out of thin air. But at the same time, I knew, for a fact, that we would get permission no matter what people said. And what a surprise, it happened! We see Lyn in serivice in those clips, aswell as Axe. fun fact about those locos if I may. Lyn was too fat for the pointwork at Killington Lane, and as such new point work was needed in order for her to run correctly! Axe, is old, broken and sounds like a midland engine. The injectors are dodgy, the boiler ticket is looming ever closer, it rattles and wobbles like the Devil. BUT, I love it so much!! Our resident war hero aswell, it served on the front line as did Sid (before it was sold). But Sid was...German..Sid even carried its war damage still! A bullet hole in the front buffer beam, that shattered and pierced the cylinder on one side.

They do Have a right to object, but the fact that she said choo choo trains triggered me

Very well said bit I have to ask will there be a episode of gauge the issue where it's about people wanting to turn railways into trails

what heritage sites would you consider to be disneyficated? what features of these sights do you see to be examples of disneyfication and why

Very good Chris. Now we need to hope that the opposition will be sensible. As my step-mum is the business manager of Llangollen railway, I understand about railways helping with economy. Without our railway, the town would not be successful.

Wonderfully put Chris

Excellent video Chris! Very much agree with your reasonings here. Further adding to your statement about the damage emitted from diesel cars: not only is it nitrogen oxide and CO2 levels that are harmful, but also the *magnetite* , an element found in iron ore from the diesel fuel. From what I learnt when speaking to Greenpeace, the Royal College of Surgeons and Kings College in London ran some tests on a national level and found large traces of magnetite poisoning in victims of air pollution. 4 out of 5 diesel motors contribute to illness. To think that people would object to a steam railway on the basis that it would ruin the landscape with it's pollution emitted from a coal-burning steam loco is nowhere near the amount of that from four diesel vehicles. As for "toy choo choo trains"? Yeaaahh...ad hominems don't make Ms Hunt or ANY person look good...!

In response to your point on line extensions bringing in extra traffic and income, I'm kinda sad you never mentioned the Gloucestershire Warwickshire Railway's recent reopening to Broadway. Not really a nitpick or criticism as it was a good analysis regardless but it's a really good example & relevant too.

The L&B was made almost a century ago anyway, it would be proper for it to exist again

Bravo! This video was incredibly unbiased yet still in defense of the expansion. The railfan community over here in the states and even in the UK should have more people like you.

NIMBY: Not In My Back Yard. They would have had no objection if it was on the other side of the valley or hill from them. Their objection is based on the compulsory acquisition of their land.

I wonder if the people who built the L & B railway in 1898 thought that they were only building a "toy train" railway?

I'm a bit late to comment on this, but I really enjoyed this video. I've only recently discovered the L&B, and I think that you did a great job of defending it in a respectful way.

My thoughts are that this was a planning issue. Has the required land been sold to the railway or is the track bed not for sale. At any price

Thanks Chris

Interesting piece. Is the Mother/Daughter part able to be bypassed at all ?

She says we need clean air. Well then look at cars You can change them

Nice history lesson, next history lesson can you do Watkin? :p

Good points well put Chris. All rail fans, and particularly narrow gauge steam railway fans (me) should be delighted that the line extension is going ahead at all.... and no one should be surprised that not everyone like trains as much as us Gricers.... least of all us Gricers,,!

Disneyfication... Ma'am, if we want to talk Disneyfication, come to the country that invented it. We are actually seeking to destroy our National Parks so a few mineral companies can go after oil, gas, and other materials. That's even more environmental damage than the cars going through them!!

Playing Dowell's advocate for a moment, rural areas evolve and although there was a railway there for 37 years or so, it is basically a rural landscape.Most of the actual opinion against such things is a nimby argument but at the same time this is still their back yard.We are in favour of this because it is a railway(and yes,a very significant railway at that) and railways are our passion but it isn't everyone's cup of tea.On both sides, anyone can logically justify their position.On a completely different subject but regards my point about justification,I'm a meat eater who personally isn't convinced by "logical" arguments in favour of vegetarianism.The best justification anyone said to me(ie I genuinely liked it) was a friend of mine who said."I couldn't eat those sweet, lovely-looking, cute cows!"

Any news on if the railway was able to rebuild to the for mentioned community? How's the railway handling covid?

2:12 I get it I’m i’m a nature specialist and I love trains however though both sides can do their best to to rely on one another The insects pollinate the crops and produce the fruits and the trains transport the fruits to cities to people

Well thought out 👍

It's been 5 years since this video was made. What's happened since? Has the line been rebuilt?

Can you do a review about the 9F

Steam locomotives may produce a bit of smoke and water vapour but they don't produce the oxides of nitrogen that internal combustion engines produce because the combustion of coal is not taking place under pressure. So they don't compare with motor cars as far as pollution goes. They are more like a country house with a coal fired stove. Should be just right for that area.

I would LOVE to have a railway run close to my home

I don’t quite understand the role this heritage line will or is currently playing. Will it be a viable option to the car? Will it run through the year on a set timetable with departures multiple times a day? I can see how the line could culturally enrich the local community and bring about additional business, but I wouldn’t really compare it to the car as a mode of transport. That is why I’m asking, since in my experience, most people riding on heritage railways come and leave by car, sometimes train, and it’s more of an attraction than something this family will benefit from in their daily life.

That was an excellent, well balanced presentation. The objectors did themselves no credit with their childish comments. Unfortunately, the country is full of people like them. Our local newspaper gets frequent "letters to the editor" from individuals who have moved near to our local airbase complaining about low flying aircraft!

Both sides should act civil and mature, especially mrs grobb and her daughter. I would’ve like them both if they actually did their research

5 dislikes were from the Hunts

one problem is that people like most new ideas, just not near them. Most people would say that new houses need building, but try to build them near them, they will be up in arms. i can see their point but i think the positives outway the negatives.

4:44 see top gear Burma to further illustrate

I got a Disney Plus advertisement

*lives next to railway* *complains when railway does it's work*

Truer words never spoken, Chris. As much as I would like to agree with Louise and Ella on their points, I'm sorry to say that their opinions on the matter of the extension to the line are semi-true or just downright phony with no actual facts to back their statements up. "Disneyfication" really stumped me and I couldn't make out what Ella was elluding to when she made that statement. Not only that, but calling the affair as "Choo-choo trains" and "Toy Trains", really Ella? I don't get it. Toy trains are smaller and meant for model train layouts and the actual locomotive running the trains is pretty big and it weighs a lot. And also, tastes of public transport have changed so much and not everyone can get the hang of things like riding on horseback or walking to experience the park nowadays and the job roster for preserved railroads vary beyond just tea rooms. And I would agree with Louise on the pollution bit but honestly, when I think about it, I think the pollution factor would be minimized greatly with people riding the train on the extension from Barnstaple to Lynton instead of motor cars and it'll do people a great justice to the ecosystem. I found out when I learned that the Grand Canyon Railway in Arizona did just that with it's own trains to reduce car transportation to the Grand Canyon. You made really compelling arguments towards Louise and Ella's statements and contradicted them in not just a civilized manner but also with cold, hard facts, Chris. And on every last one, I agree with you wholeheartedly (Sorry Louise, Ella, I'm for the civilized truth seeker here). I really hope to see that little line someday thanks to your arguments in this video.

Seeing this gave me an idea : spend some hollydays in Devon and ride on the L&B Railway ! That's paradoxal injunction at its highest point for me ladies and gentlemen, to hear those silly comments about heritage railways and the people who run them. By the way, where is the closest national ralway network station from the L&B ? I push the insult so far to have no car at all since seven years, and rely on public transportation...

2:17 that photo is of my city Cleveland, Ohio in the 1970s over a long gone road over rail bridge.

Here here. Best documented example of opposition changing their minds would be shown in the BBC documentary about the extension of the Welsh Highland Line. They even showed a family which had been highly against turning around and riding the line with their children.

I agree with you Mate. I have an idea that could be a solution to the problem, just build the line around that woman’s land.

As a volunteer on the Swanage Railway, the economical gain & tourist influx has outwitted the environment impacts of our railway. It does annoy me to hear a poor attitude towards the railway and how it affects 'them' as a whole. They have the right to their views but to me they seem non logical with a poor attitude. Part of our trackbed was going to be a bypass for traffic and now we have regular saturday services from the mainline! Reducing traffic and bringing more people to Swanage. I see the benefits that railways have :)

I would have genuinely responded to the "If you are going to play trains, do it somewhere else" comment by saying "If you are going to play dollhouse, do it somewhere else".

The pollution argument is ridiculous. Heritage railways produce an almost immeasurably small level of pollution in the UK alone, let alone the world. Furthermore it's not like there's a substitutable option for steam trains such as with cars (electric). I'm all for mainline trains going green but demanding museums do so is silly. Most people agree petrol cars will likely eventually be replaced with electric ones, but no one would complain about vintage cars still running on petrol because they produce such a minuscule amount of emissions and have to run on petrol to continue the vintage aesthetic