Rim Brakes Vs Disc Brakes: Which Really Are Better?

Рет қаралды 290,486

Күн бұрын

Rim brakes versus disc brakes. It’s the eternal debate that rages in the comments of every GCN Tech video! So we've decided it’s now time to do some science and work out which actually are best. Ollie tests two Pinarello superbikes in a series of challenges to see which brakes are faster and more effective. Cue angry comments in 3, 2, 1…!!
0:00 Intro
1:28 Emergency Stop Test
3:36 Descending Test
6:44 Wet Weather Test
8:30 Summary
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Пікірлер: 1 300

@gcntech 2 жыл бұрын

What do you make of the results? Do you even care? Are you team rim or team disc?

@ssaunders2k 2 жыл бұрын

How would cable actuated disc brakes fit into the results?

@rushikeshtapre8620 2 жыл бұрын

mechanical Disc brake 🗿

@danc1829 2 жыл бұрын

Should of used alloy wheels in the wet... Not like your using a carbon disc in the wet is it 🤦‍♂️

@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed 2 жыл бұрын

Rim brakes for road is the best . You can see that the cycling industry is pushing this disc brake bike. It doesn't benefit racing at all, especially changing a flat.

@cympaul937 2 жыл бұрын

Have you tried using hydraulic rim brakes and add it in the comparison? But you'll have to the test all over again 😆

@illuminat3858 2 жыл бұрын

Rim brakes for a good sunny ride but disc brakes for long steep descents and unpredictable weather. I like the simplicity, ease of cleaning/maintenance, lower price range and lighter weight of a rim brake bike but I also like the confidence boosting brake power/modulation of disc brakes. The downside of disc brakes are the rotor rubbing sounds (alignment issues/rotor warping), leaking brake fluid reservoir, brake/rotor contamination, piston issues, and much more expensive.

@DaveCM 2 жыл бұрын

LOL! Contamination. That is my favorite! I can clean my pads, perfectly align my pads and rotors, and be enjoying my perfectly quiet ride. Then I ride through a random, unavoidable puddle and my brakes are screaming for the rest of the ride.

@Bluesman2509 2 жыл бұрын

@@DaveCM THIS is why I stuck to rim brakes, just use alloy rims in winter 😁🤣

@cheamheadcamer7584 2 жыл бұрын

Try riding an MTB trail on rim brakes

@DaveCM 2 жыл бұрын

@@Bluesman2509 Yeah. I do like the disc brakes, but sometimes I just wish if stuck with rim. Cheaper to maintain too. At least on the road bike. On my gravel bike, no way.

@gcntech 2 жыл бұрын

Great comment! 👍

@andreemurray7039 2 жыл бұрын

I've used alloyrims for over 40 years the problem I see is the carbon rims and the brake pads are rubbish in wet everyone to their own choice but I'm happy on alloy rim brakes 😀

@TSonemusic 2 жыл бұрын

That’s 10 years longer then i’m alive so this means you’re used to rim brakes throughout. Which also means that even if discs are better they wouldn’t be for you because it’s different than what you’re used to. I started mountain biking on discs 6 years ago and my first road bike had discs. So for me it would feel very sketchy to go back to rim brakes even if they have some advantages.

@samuelthompson5094 2 жыл бұрын

Humans existed for thousands of years before toilet roll was invented. Everyone to my own but I prefer to wipe my arse with a leaf.

@ChromeStrand 2 жыл бұрын

Yep, I have both carbon + Rim brake combo and Alloy + Rim, Alloy i don't really have problem with this even in wet condition, (if there's one, maybe the super black waters drip from the surface due to the friction) but with Carbon wheels, I really able to tell it's not working at all. the noise and performance, and confidence, material I lost from grinding(higher cost for the wheelset), everything gets much much worse in rain.

@DesuchanSugoi 2 жыл бұрын

@@TSonemusic I also started mountain biking on discs; hydraulic ones to be exact. Just recently I got my first road bike, a 1982 Nishiki Continental; almost entirely original parts. Let me tell you I was shocked by how well 40-year-old side pull brakes can stop a bike. That's with ancient non-aero brake levers with no return spring, standard cable housing that probably hasn't been changed in a few decades, and some of those basic Dia-Compe black brake pads with the metal holder.

@supermitendo9654 2 жыл бұрын

Yep I will never use rim brake with alloy wheels so my option is Disc+Carbon vs Rim+Alloy, and I choose carbon wheels

@MrLuigi-oi7gm 2 жыл бұрын

My experience with rim brakes is that the brake pads I use can play a significant factor in performance. Not saying the best performing rim brake pads weren't used in this test, but... Also significant advances have been made recently by certain rim brake carbon wheel manufacturers with regard to their stopping ability, especially in wet conditions. Not saying this test didn't use one of these higher performing rim brake carbon wheels, but... Also, as Ollie said/implied, the type braking system you use most often will help you to get the most out of the system. Ollie is a master climber, so maybe he does use rim brakes most often. But on your videos, he seems to be using disk brakes most of the time. So in this one time test, I would think his better instincts with disk brakes would give disk brakes an advantage. I know I am sounding like a bitter, rim brake lover. But experimental design is a big part of my job and so I obsess over these things. Cheers, Mr. Luigi

@james-tennis 2 жыл бұрын

They had a pretty awesome rim brake bike there so I imagine almost top of the line technology. I've used mavic rsys alloy wheels with their specific rim brakes and I still wasn't happy with it in wet conditions. I know they talked about emergency stopping here, but I'm also concerned at just slowing down on descents. To me it's overall harder to brake with rim brakes in wet conditions and just not as safe as disc.

@rmnstr604 2 жыл бұрын

Tires make a much bigger impact on braking performance. It’s easy to lock the wheels with both rim and disc brakes. It’s not lack of stopping power but rather lack of grip that makes the biggest difference.

@gamingaccount4935 2 жыл бұрын

Wider tyre + low pressure = more grip/less lethal discbrake (and slow AF 🤣)

@neilmcgurk2227 2 жыл бұрын

The shortest stopping, or slowing, distance relies on not locking the wheels, but getting as close as possible. Disc brakes have more modulation, which is better for getting closer to, without actually locking up. So I think you are absolutely right about the grip, and that is dependent on tyre and rim. Obviously more choice with disc.

@Digi20 2 жыл бұрын

When you can lock the frontwheel so that you would go over the bar you obviously dont have a tire that has not enough grip?

@Ferrichrome 2 жыл бұрын

@@Digi20 what hes saying is that no matter how good your brakes are, the limiting factor will be your tires

@sora11231 2 жыл бұрын

I am also thinking of that You can easily lock your rear wheel with both types

@marcelr.9035 2 жыл бұрын

I'm a professional mechanic and deal with disc brakes all day, the more I work on them the more I'm glad my bike has rim brakes

@nickjanssen 2 жыл бұрын

Okay, why?

@vika0194 2 жыл бұрын

Dumbest thing I have read. The emergency stop test showed the difference. You probably want rim brakes on cars too.

@RealMTBAddict 2 жыл бұрын

Lol

@dmitryhetman1509 2 жыл бұрын

I had so much pain with rim brakes, but they are a lot lighter

@dmitryhetman1509 2 жыл бұрын

@@vika0194 on bike you should ride not brake

@Stefano-cz6bo 2 жыл бұрын

My experience is only with rim brakes and aluminium wheel rims. With this combination, you can easily apply enough braking torque to overturn and fall ahead of your bike or to loose adhesion on the rear wheel and loose control of the bike. So, in the end, the distance of a safe emergency stop (especially downhill) will be much more affected by your skills as a driver than by having a rim-braked or disk-braked bike. Similarly, the time I need to ride downhill is mostly affected by things like cars I find on my way, a bit of sand or water on the road which will make me a bit more cautious etc. To me, riding a bike with disk brakes means having available a lot of extra braking torque which however will be seldom exploited by a less-than-average driver like me.

@pnewt8458 6 ай бұрын

Good point

@jmpete517 2 жыл бұрын

I live in a relatively flat area in the US. Rim brakes on my road bike work great for me here. Even in wet conditions. I generally ride 18-20mph. Descents are not long enough to justify disc brakes. My road bike is 10 years old. No need to buy a new bike just to upgrade to disc. I’ve ridden the same bike in Colorado on mountain roads. I felt safe at 45-50mph. Braking time was not a concern. Plan ahead and kept my fingers on the brake levers to be ready.

@vdkh3625 4 ай бұрын

100% 🇺🇦

@lostisleminstrel Жыл бұрын

Part of why I love watching your channel is seeing testing that I am unable to do myself. ;Rim brakes for me. Dry weather rider, do all my own maintenance work on bikes. Never had a rim brake that didn't get me stopped fast enough during a life threatening car vs bicyclist situation. Keep up the good work.

@keithfoley-chell1645 2 жыл бұрын

I'm 100% convinced that disc brakes stop better, especially in the wet and allow faster descending. Even more so after watching this video. However, when I bought a new bike last year I chose rim brakes. Reasons: 1. Lighter 2. Less expensive 3. Easier to change a flat 4. Less maintenance. Rim brakes pretty much just need new pads every now and then. 5. At 72yo, I don't race any more and am a dry weather only rider. If it's raining, hello Zwift! 🙂 Even though I've never had a problem with rim brakes in 42 years of riding and road racing, if I was racing now and training in the wet, I would definitely choose discs. It's "horses for courses". You just have to know what your own needs are (or own 2+ bikes!)..

@Silidons91 Жыл бұрын

I don't understand how better stopping has anything to do with descent speed? If you are familiar with the road, you should know what speeds to take corners at, and that means it does not change the descent speed. Everyone I have ridden with, cannot keep up with me on descents, because they ride their brakes. I very rarely use my brakes on descent, even in large curves, only if it's a super hairpin curve. I regularly go 50+ mph, I just hit 53.3mph last week actually. I have both rim and disc, and I just know that on my rim brake bike I need to start my braking a little earlier on certain turns. Descent speed has nothing to do with it.

@ericl6460 Жыл бұрын

Why is it easier to change a flat? Not sure I understand how

@Silidons91 Жыл бұрын

@@ericl6460 Probably because you don't have to mess with the rotor when re-installing, and most disc brake bikes require an allen key and don't have just a QR skewer like rim does

@ericl6460 Жыл бұрын

@@Silidons91 I guess for road bikes you'd probably have a thru-axle if you had discs? I mostly ride mountain bikes so disc + quick release is still really common

@Silidons91 Жыл бұрын

@@ericl6460 Yeah probably like 95% of disc brake road bikes are thru axle with an allen key, not a quick release

@troyg1673 2 жыл бұрын

I enjoy the content you guys produce. I have a road bike with rim brakes / carbon Campagnolo Bora wheels AND a road bike with Shimano hydraulic disc brakes. No question disc brakes outperform in the wet. The braking feel and consistency of discs is very similar in wet or dry on disc brakes (just like a car), BUT in dry conditions, I can stop very quickly on rim brakes with carbon wheels. I think we need to remember that skill and technique are probably the biggest factors of stopping distance for modern cycling equipment. How many cyclists practice emergency braking? A well executed emergency/hard stop does not include a long rear wheel skid. Emergency stopping is 90% front brake control - braking to the limits of front wheel grip. The rear brake contributes only a small amount of stopping power as the weight transfers forward and thus lightens the rear wheel, reducing grip. Moving your body back over the rear wheel can add a bit extra stopping power in an emergency stop. In terms of comparing braking in the dry of the 2 different systems, the test should be conducted by 2 cyclists that were equally highly skilled in their preferred use of rim / disc brakes. I think we would see a much smaller difference between the 2 braking distances in the dry. Reading the comments, the best braking system for you is the one that you are most confident using.

@thomastrampf6196 Жыл бұрын

Outstanding on all fronts. Thank you for taking the time to produce these extremely well put together videos....

@truthseeker8483 2 жыл бұрын

A Rim brake is a 700mm disc brake......an Alloy rim with rim brake would work better. Best advantages of disc brake 1. Through axle keeps wheels in alignment 2. Hydraulic lines can be routed through frame without effecting braking performance 3. More likely to be in good adjustment with average rider. 4. A bigger choice of Carbon wheels 5. Makes you wallet lighter for less weight 6. A disc will clear water quicker because it is not down near the ground. 😃 The extra weight is not just the braking components..the wheels need more spokes/through axles, hubs need disc mounting, the fork needs to be stronger and the frame needs to be stronger

@henseleric 2 жыл бұрын

Larger tire-selection -very helpful as you age.

@truthseeker8483 2 жыл бұрын

@@henseleric I know the feeling 😀

@chrissinclair6086 2 жыл бұрын

My last rim bike, Giant Propel Advanced Pro had lovely carbon wheels, until it rained. Being a heavy rider I dreaded descents in wet, or anything not dry. Now on disc's I don't worry at all.

@tquindt1 2 жыл бұрын

"Can I get a ride to the top?" For a moment Ollie was sounding like a mountain biker.

@paulhope7298 2 жыл бұрын

Really enjoyed this video - obviously there is more "science" to debate and tyres to consider etc, but overall great job with the vid and the open, fun and honest vibe! Spot on.

@matt_m126 2 жыл бұрын

I am not in favour of one or another, however the first test involved Ollie locking up. Once this happens, the tires are what is stopping you, not the brakes, so I think it would be invalid.

@gokaygs 2 жыл бұрын

Best point of the video is touching upon skill level: if you are good at descending then you are only braking as little as necessary and in a very calculated manner. If disc brakes make you a better descender then you most likely can get a lot better at descending to begin with! In real world application discs are not faster on descends just like fast deep dish wheels are likely to be slower than slow wheels with no aero profile. Yesterday we dropped from 7000 feet elevation to about 1000 feet, my friend's discs started rubbing after we came to a casual stop to dismount and go under a gate before the real descent began, last thing I need on my mind before bombing down is discs rubbing when I'm about to lean the bike thru corners. I was on rim brakes with shallow aluminum wheels, Campy Shamals, because that's the gear you whould use when you are going and down mountains all day. My two friends on disc brakes and carbon wheels 50mm and 65mm, soon after we gained speed their front wheels started catching the canyon winds and the twitchiness sapped their handling and confidence. I waited around 2 minutes for them at the bottom of a 15 minute descent. So TLDR the point is, disc brakes are not the answer for or gateway to better descending, skills and technique are what makes a good descender. AND Nibali would rather descend on rims then discs, yes he knows better.

@henseleric 2 жыл бұрын

If I can brake later, before a curve, I will cumulatively descend faster, on a technical descent. This is demonstrable with discs -as in this clip. Nibali would agree with me. The argument remains the weight going up.

@gokaygs 2 жыл бұрын

@@henseleric technically on paper It would sound so but not in real life. If you say you can keep your average speed higher over a tight technical descent by braking later but harsher into corners(I doubt you ever tried doing that btw) then you will eventually lock up a wheel coming in too hot to a corner, lose control and fly off the ridge. This clip does not demonstrate anything about descending/braking but shills discs with a biased ‘test’. If what you said was actually true then we’d see all the pro races consistently breaking downhill segment time records each year with improving disc technology, however in reality we see more pros power sliding in corners.

@KY-pk2rd 2 жыл бұрын

After quite a lot of rainy rides, I would like to share some of my feelings over rim vs. disc. 1. People argue that the main point of disc is better than rim is that the braking power doesn't decrease during rainy day. It is true, however, I don't see many people ride on rainy days, also, during rainy day ride, debrids on the road, grease mixed with water from other cars can enter the gap between the disc and calipers, causing the brake to make unpleasant squeaky noise. Also, as the cooling water get contact with the hot disc, it may cause mini-bend on the disc, cause more unnecessary scratches. And you guessed it, the squeaky sound can persist even days after many many dry day rides. 2. An ordinary rim can greatly lose braking power in rain, however, the one I use, Mavic Exalith, with tiny grooves with ceramic coat on the rim surface, I will say the braking power still retains roughly 90% even in big rain, so for me I don't see any problem. 3. In any case, you don't ride fast during rainy day, because the friction between the pavement and wheel is also decreased, the worst scenario is the wheel been locked. Final verdict: If you can ignore the unpleasant noise from the disc after rainy day ride, then disc is totally fine, let alone if you have hydraulic brake, your hands are way less stressful and tired. If you have much experience in rain with rim and know how to properly control, rims are fun, low-maintenance and still powerful.

@gcntech 2 жыл бұрын

If you live somewhere with consistently dry weather, performance in the wet will obviously be less of a factor, whereas if you live somewhere with a wetter climate, it will be more significant. It al depends

@adamlynch9153 2 жыл бұрын

Not with carbon rim brakes 😎

@sora11231 2 жыл бұрын

@@gcntech I live in a place where it's either hot and dry as desert or raining cats and dogs

@BICIeCOMPUTERconGabriele 2 жыл бұрын

Smart man! Quality alloy wheels and rim brakes are good enough!

@nstrug 2 жыл бұрын

For those of us who live in the U.K., if we didn’t ride on rainy days we basically would only ride for a couple of weeks per year. We have roads that literally never dry out, even at the height of summer. It’s been high 20s here for a few days but I know on my club ride this evening we will go through two flooded road sections. Outside of ‘summer’ this would be multiplied twenty times even if it happened to not be raining on that day.

@bryancirimele2645 2 жыл бұрын

Another Great video by GCN. Thanks Ollie!!! I need to get a new bike with disc brakes now.

@Whitehawkvisionfilms 2 жыл бұрын

I have been looking for this info and this was VERY helpful and informative! Super grateful for a video like this one! My Pinarello (rim brakes) is red, but I have to say yours in silver and black is SOOOOO gorgeous!

@mikesmithchchnz 2 жыл бұрын

There are many variables in rim vs disc brakes, 2 of the main things are: 1) brake pads, and 2) braking surfaces, e.g. alloy vs carbon for rim. Specific rim brake pads for wet conditions can out perform disc brakes. Alloy rims also generally perform better than carbon in wet conditions, but with cadence braking on downhills, carbon rims are fine, just watch for overheating.

@deanokeano6386 2 жыл бұрын

I came from mountain bikes and bmx with rim (v) brakes, then disc on the mountain bikes after about 2005, i got a gravel bike with disc brakes a year or so ago, loved the road type of bike, so I recently built up a pure road bike, I was worried a little by all the talk of rim brakes being not very good, also caliper brakes In my past were complete garbage, I’m pleased to report that my ultegra rim brakes on 50mm carbon clinchers are more than capable of hauling my 94kg up without a fuss even when at 50-55 kph, discs are nice but not required has been my experience

@discbrakefan 2 жыл бұрын

Ridden it in the rain yet?

@durianriders 2 жыл бұрын

@@discbrakefan locked up a road race tire with hydro disc in the rain yet? Did you watch the 2021 WET giro? Who won and on what braking system?

@bleuify7 2 жыл бұрын

@@discbrakefan many times, why do you ask?

@LoscoeLad 2 жыл бұрын

@@durianriders you're a big fan of rim brakes hey.. I;ve only had a disc brake road bike, but thinking of building a rim brake bike soon

@craigcarlson4022 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you did this comparison, and well considered test methodology. Dramatic how much difference there is. (Though, Descending in the rain with rim brakes does bring on nightmares).

@michadebicki6534 2 жыл бұрын

Switched to discs recently and never looked back. Far superior braking power in any weather condition. After a season I swapped the pads to metallic-ceramic and oh boy how much stopping power does they have. Certainly there were issues with rubbing but couple of park tool tutorials later I learned how to correctly set up and align them, perform bleeding procedure and clean pads/rotors to avoid loud noises. Yes, my humble rim brakes were simplier to maintain but discs are just better, especially when bombing any ling descent or in any emergency situation or in bad weather.

@TheNovaNorm 2 жыл бұрын

In the dry, best to worst for me is hydraulic disc, rim (105), cable disc (tektro). Equipment quality plays a big part too. Thanks for the video.

@da14a49 2 жыл бұрын

Cable discs shouldn't exist. Worse or identical power as good rim brakes while being way harder to maintain???

@suspiciousstew1169 3 ай бұрын

@@da14a49they look cool tho

@steveco1800 2 жыл бұрын

My summer road bike has rim brakes and alloy rims. Discs don't offer any real improvements in the dry for me, and add weight and complexity. I don't push the limits on the brakes. My winter and XC bikes have discs, which are undoubtedly worth it in bad conditions.

@ancogbernard 2 жыл бұрын

pointless comparison🤷 try roadbike with disc. cause they aren't thesame feelings😏 compare it to long descend. which is better.

@steveco1800 2 жыл бұрын

@@ancogbernard My winter bike is an Orro Terra GRX with 32c slicks and before that I had a CAADX Rival which had 28c slicks. I know the advantages they bring but also the issues - GRX is much better than Rival was, but still not as hassle free as MTB discs. Long descents on road discs almost always results in the pads rubbing the rotors because the clearance is tighter, usually it goes away but they're very sensitive to any warping from the heat. The summer road bike I have no worries of potential niggles and they have plenty of performance for 25c tires at my weight.

@ancogbernard 2 жыл бұрын

@@steveco1800 old tech? disc rubbing is old issue.

@steveco1800 2 жыл бұрын

@@ancogbernard Shimano GRX on my bike is from late 2019 and is current tech. Generally it's pretty dependable, I do like it a lot, but I have to tweak the rotor alignment occasionally to keep them straight and I see no point on the road bike. I get it with high end carbon rims but I'm not bothered about getting crazy expensive wheels. The 2015 SRAM Rival was a nightmare, sticky pistons and loose levers despite bleeding. They were far worse than the Formula Oro K24 disc brakes I bought for my MTB back in the early 2000s, which were actually pretty decent and only started getting similar issues after many years of use. As well as the extra cost and weight, disc brakes on road bikes also compromise fork compliance because of the extra strength needed with the braking force at the axel.

@ancogbernard 2 жыл бұрын

@@steveco1800 rubing disc is better than riding rim on long descend tho. as if there is no rubing on rims🤷 btw... that issue was solve by new gen shimano. mtb's and roadbikes. you can use mtb caliper in your gravel bike to solve your problem😉

@LucasGerrijts 2 жыл бұрын

I've used a rimbrake MTB and racing bikes for many years in the past. In 2019 I upgraded both bikes. I got the MTB first and using that I was so impressed with the stopping power and the ability to control the pressure/braking force in all weather conditions; I decided that my new racing bike just had to have hydraulic brakes as well. I don't care about the few additional seconds uphill or due to aero; but the safety it brings in emergency stops is what matters most.

@tallpaul1505 2 жыл бұрын

Really would be nice if you did budget disc bike v budget rim bike especially when the cables are starting to stretch! The roadside maintenance on rim is far superior to disc in my opinion too from fixing a flat or readjusting the brakes! Great work as always 👍

@Alex-to8es 2 жыл бұрын

The thing is with this, is there really any point? What is your budget disc bike? 105? Firstly that isn't really budget vs other brands, and secondly the 105 disc group set is going to be the same technology as the Dura Ace as they are both new products to road bikes. The real thing to note here is that Rim brakes on Carbon wheels don't work as well as Rim Brakes on Aluminium wheels, your budget wheels, and good quality rim brakes and pads, will actually beat the rim brake version of the bike here. That is really where disc brakes win, if you ride a lot and at all in the rain, a carbon wheels braking surface no longer exists to be worn down, this means your wheels aren't being worn down by braking, all while it also means you can make more aerodynamic shapes for the wheels. That is where discs win, in an all around aero, climbing, descending, wet/dry, endurance, idea. But if you just want aero/light weight, rim brakes win, if you just want descending/wet disc brakes win. In the end for your amateur rider, it really doesn't matter, I think the advantage of disc brakes peak in that regards at emergency stopping on a wet commute, because that is a more real life situation than a mountain descent.

@chris1275cc 2 жыл бұрын

@@Alex-to8es If you tested on flat bar you could test down to about £30 plus P&P for full hydro brakes. Tiagra is the lowest tier full hydro I believe, although if just comparing brakes then TRP Hylex . You might not be able to do Budget Vs Budget in a full on roadie scenario but it would be interesting to see what's so special about the breaking part of a £450-£1200 set of brifters VS some of the cheap by comparison Flat bar/ MTB setups available.

@samtatge8299 2 жыл бұрын

It’s brake. Replacing cables is cycling 101.

@tallpaul1505 2 жыл бұрын

@@Alex-to8es i get your point re 105 saying that there are loads of disc brakes that are budget and they are shocking! The stopping distance can be so bad it's deadly! The question should be is disc breaking for you and your budget! People (those new or 1st bike buyers) see disc brakes are the only way forward thinking they are all the same!

@nokia6800 2 жыл бұрын

how is fixing a flat on a rim brake bike any easier than a disc road bike? i see this as an argument all the time and i never understood it lol

@stephanemartin4733 2 жыл бұрын

I have Dura Ace rim brakes and they are perfectly fine for climbing and descending.

@jamesmckenzie3532 2 жыл бұрын

Dura Ace are bonded aluminium to carbon. That gives you the best of both worlds. Shimano actually produces special pads for these wheels.

@gcntech 2 жыл бұрын

It's a personal choice at the end of the day, whatever you're most comfortable with

@tasteit9719 2 жыл бұрын

@@gcntech No it is not personal choice, you are constantly raping the audience with disc brakes, same like industry

@wallacewestmeath 2 жыл бұрын

@@gcntech i agree ,, its all down to choice ... i am sure some people think candles are better than electric lights .

@woutervanderdoes5163 2 жыл бұрын

One major factor that would have been important to keep similar between the two bikes is the wheel/tyre combination. Using significantly different rims (in this case rim brake was on 19 mm internal, disc brake 21 mm internal) and different tyres (cinturato/all season vs p zero/race tyre) has a large impact on grip. And exactly what Ollie said, the road were very smooth, which results in limited grip. Obviously disc brakes offer better stopping power, but in this case the odds were further stacked against the rim brake bike by using narrower rims combined with less grippy tyres with a higher rolling resistance, which I presume to have had a noticable impact on the "scientific" aspect of this video.

@vivaparenzo 2 жыл бұрын

Exactly, i learned to ride on disc brakes and 28mm tyre.. when I tested rim brake with 23mm cheap tyre Lugano i screamed all the way down the hill. It seemed to me like no brake power at all

@user-oy2xy8gg5l 2 жыл бұрын

100% for a wide moderate gradient decent like that brake power should have no diffrence in speed as you probably only ever need 50% brake power use on the rim brakes... Good spot on the tyres they will be where all the speed win for the disc bike came from.

@florenceetalexismartel8365 2 жыл бұрын

Are you sure the Cinturato have less grip than Pzero ? I'm using them as winter tyres and the are grippy. I'm not using the PZero durung the summer but the Conti GP5000 and the Schwalbe pro one and I didn't notice a grip difference (rolling resistance is higher for sure)

@KILLTHEREDDITOR 2 жыл бұрын

it's because they're sponsored bro lmao how hard would it be to make sure that everything is as similar as possible on both bike before testing them?

@georgebirddrums 2 жыл бұрын

There's also the braking surface on the rim brake track. I don't know that vision wheelset, but they didn't seem to have the kind of textured brake tracks that come on a lot of wheelsets these days

@iang7007 Жыл бұрын

Really good to know that difference in stopping distance. thanks :)

@lenwilkinson8541 2 жыл бұрын

I can compare two long, steep descents while riding Cycle North Carolina, both with rim brakes and carbon wheels. The dry one was scary as the heat buildup was so significant that I experienced brake fade and could barely stop before going over a guardrail on a hairpin curve. I had to wait 30 minutes for the rims to cool down before I ventured further. The wet descent was even more scary. I tiptoed down with the brakes on 100% of the time as when I gathered any speed it took 50 yards before I could feel safe. No such problem - dry or wet - with disc brakes.

@TheJMT2012 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah Carbon and rim not so great. Alloy and rim no problem though.

@yijuntey 2 жыл бұрын

i love how i always watch these videos as if i can even afford a new bike any time soon

@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed 2 жыл бұрын

Then stop watching .

@larslosh5598 2 жыл бұрын

@@HarryTzianakisTheGodOfSpeed what an amazingly stupid comment

@AgentSmith16 2 жыл бұрын

What do you think the reason is for the difference between this result, and the video that GCN released about 4 years ago where Matt and Si compared stopping distances? Their conclusion was that in the dry, the distances were essentially identical. My hypothesis would be something like "operator skill". Matt/Si's test was done on the flat, hence possibly allowing the rear wheel a bit more grip because there is more weight on it. In this video's rim brake test, Ollie locked the back wheel up for almost 80% of that stopping distance - skidding drastically reduces the rate you slow down. The disc test was much smoother. Perhaps that's a win for disc brakes being easier to operate (fair enough), but we would need to admit that's not an inherent flaw in the rim system, just a tradeoff. Thoughts and criticisms?

@azngouki 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. A point that is subtly touched on but is the driver of the points tested is modulation and the ability to find the threshold braking point consistently. Disc (particularly hydraulic) is superior in that aspect from a learning curve and lever feel perspective. It's not about the ability to lock the wheels because heck, you can lock with the use of your foot on the rear wheel. But it's about the ability to find threshold braking consistently and comfortably.

@nolanr1400 Жыл бұрын

Hydraulic rim brakes do exist

@bboyle09 2 жыл бұрын

stopped racing ten years ago when disc brakes weren't a thing. got back into it over the pandemic, and now i'm building my first bike in a decade, with hydraulic disc brakes. I had no idea what I was getting into! I had to buy a "bleed kit," had to learn the difference between DOT fluid and mineral oil, had to buy a special cutter thing for the hoses....it all gets here this week and I'm building it next weeked. wish me luck but i'm already starting to regret not getting bl**dy rim brakes haha

@henseleric 2 жыл бұрын

Same here...I'm not looking back, though.

@nstrug 2 жыл бұрын

Direct mount rim brakes are spectacularly good (especially the Campag ones ❤️). I love rim brakes on dry rides but in the wet, especially on carbon rims, give me disc any day. My concern is that the whole industry is going towards disc meaning that we are having less and less options on quality frames.

@james-tennis 2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Disc brakes all day in wet conditions and to me, that just means disc brakes period.

@themindgarage8938 2 жыл бұрын

I wonder what would happen if you tested cheaper bikes at the same price point. I would not be surprised if a 105 rim setup outperformed a cheap cable disc setup.

@MarkRiddellRacing 2 жыл бұрын

105 is the cheapest you want to go for. Would be better to put a Dura Ace rim against 105 disc. I expect disc still wins.

@LeoInterHyenaem 2 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't be surprised, either. It is a given that any hydraulic system would toy with the most efficient cable setup without breaking into sweat. I've owned a cable-actuated disc groupset setup (among a multitude of sorts from cheap U-brakes to hydraulic Sram Force AXS disc setups). The stopping power of the cable-actuated disc brakes (mechanical Tiagra brifters with TRP Spyre callipers, as well as Hy-RD) is absolute rubbish. Their sole advantage over mechanical rim brakes - is that they do not lock the front wheel in a way that catapults the rider. Upon the other hand, hydraulic rim brakes (speaking from experience with multiple Magura HS33s I had on a variety of My bikes) effortlessly smoke any cable-actuated brake type - rim or disc. Their braking performance is virtually the same (or very, very close, at least) to that of the finest hydraulic disc brakes.

@martinhudobivnik5895 2 жыл бұрын

@@MarkRiddellRacing Tiagra is absolutely perfect and unless you're a serious rider (like top 10% on Strava) anything above it is just for status.

@MarkRiddellRacing 2 жыл бұрын

@@martinhudobivnik5895 or you can just afford it. I use 105 because that’s where things start to get good and it’s what I am willing to spend.

@paulm9079 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, this 100%.

@HansBaumeister Жыл бұрын

About 2 years after getting my (mountain) bike (in 1998!) I switched from the installed V-Brake system to Magura hydraulic rim brakes. The difference was eye-opening and worth every cent. I still ride that bike and the brakes still work perfectly. Doing a mechanical rim vs. hydraulic disc brake test is already an unfair advantage to the disc brakes that may very well have made all the difference. With hydraulics, you have a much better feel for when the brake is about to lock up and can (and will) modulate better.

@mnveloguy 2 жыл бұрын

What would really interest me would be how much sustained braking each could handle before failure, especially the potential for rim brakes to overheat the rims and cause a blowout. I did touring with some steep descents last summer in the Italian alps. Normally is use a rim brake bike, but the bike I used last summer had rim brakes. I had some pretty hot rims. The last thing I wanted on a descent was a blown tire at 20+mph. For touring, I just don’t have much faith in rim brakes. The Greta thing about bikes is you have the option for whatever braking system works best for you.

@rhobson 2 жыл бұрын

Comparing apples-to-apples, you have a much bigger surface area to heat and to cool with rim brakes vs with a disc brake setup. And seeing that brake fade is a very real scenario due to the small surface are of both the discs and the small pads on a disc brake setup, the rim brake actually has less potential for issues here.

@mihalis1010 2 жыл бұрын

@@rhobson your logic doesn't follow. The epoxy resin used in carbon wheels is not thermally conductive. Regardless of the surface area, rim brakes will heat up and fail faster. Brake fade is not that big of an issue.

@rhobson 2 жыл бұрын

@@mihalis1010 Sorry, my comment is based on my "bubble", from which I know only two person regularly running carbon wheels... So when I say rim brakes, I do mean Alu wheels as well. Additionally, if the resin used in carbon wheels isn't thermally conductive, that means the risk of a blow-out with rim brakes due to heat is inexistent? If so, even more advantages to rim brakes vs disc brakes. I think Wilco Kelderman will agree with me after the recent Giro D'Italia fiasco... :)

@Seppster58 2 жыл бұрын

Very informative and entertaining. I personally like the disc brakes, but in the past I used rim brakes. Pads are easier to maintain on the rim, but at the end of the day, it is rim brakes for me. Love these Ollie videos!!

@ivanwinter6740 2 жыл бұрын

Actually disc pads are incredibly easy to change

@gileee Жыл бұрын

@@ivanwinter6740 I don't have to take the wheel of my bike to change my rim break pads. In fact, I just need a single wrench. I can also take my wheel off and put it back on in a second without worrying about alignment and bending a disc. There's dozens of versions of disc break pads and they're mostly not cross compatible. All of these things are annoying. Not mentioning that one pair of the cheapest disc break pads cost more than a complete set of cheap v-breaks that come with pads.

@gethinap 2 жыл бұрын

Disc Brakes give people who are new to cycling more confidence which is one of the reasons they sell more. That being said for home meintance I'd rather stick to my cabe operated systems.

@user-qf1zw1dg9t 7 ай бұрын

Great test! You covered just about all the angles, I go for the overall picture, disc brakes!

@james-tennis 2 жыл бұрын

I'm glad you guys did this video. I hit a deer on rim brakes in wet conditions, not even as rainy as this video but damp, foggy, wet roads. I almost stopped in time but almost doesn't cut it and I forced myself to the ground as I hit the deer's chest. The deer was fine don't worry, barely touched him! I switched to disc brakes soon after and am happy not riding rim brakes anymore, especially in wet conditions.

@neilrobinson7965 2 жыл бұрын

For general day to day dry riding and training for me in Switzerland, i am perfectly happy with using rim brakes. This includes a lot of descending of course. In the wet, discs are better but then I don’t ride in the wet. Rim brakes are way cheaper to maintain too. I find pad and disk rotor life very short compared to rim brake pads. Disk pads last me 1500km and rotors about 2500km. This is in the mountain areas with lots of descents. Compare that with rim brake pads where i am getting 20’000km out of my Swissstop blue pads. Yes i ride a lot.

@Bluesman2509 2 жыл бұрын

Yes I noticed that Swisstop pads, especially the carbon ones, last many thousands of kms. I don't bother with discs!

@gcntech 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for commenting Neil - 'better' is of course objective and having brakes you're comfortable riding is the main thing!

@olastokken7670 2 жыл бұрын

I have Ultegra Disc brakes, full control with those👍😎 No more rim breaks for me😉

@yutehube4468 2 жыл бұрын

The best brakes I ever used were Dura-Ace 7800 rim brakes, with Kool-Stop salmon brake pads. Absolutely incredible. I could never afford the "20% more powerful" 7900 brakes but the 7800 were already powerful enough. I've never tried high-end hydraulic discs, maybe those are better I don't know, but those 7800 rim brakes... they were just special. Confidence building, I could brake a lot later before cornering. You don't realize why this equipment is the top of the range until you try it and think "wow". 😎

@ryanmichael11 2 жыл бұрын

Great video, Can you touch on the changing of break pads of disc versus rim?? I think people like myself might be afraid about alignment issues if dirt/grit gets caught in the disc.

@tktspeed1433 2 жыл бұрын

I can't be sure for bicycles because they are a decent bit more finiky, but at least with motorcycle disc brakes it is like a 15min project to change them and you have to try to mess it up.

@stevenqirkle 2 жыл бұрын

Just got my first bike with disc brakes, and two months in I’ve kind of grown to hate them. So many more maintenance issues than rim breaks, and I’ve already worn through a set of pads in two months. Sure they are nicer to ride when everything is dialed perfectly. But I don’t want to be fiddling with my brakes all the time, I just want to ride my bike. And my overall enjoyment of owning and riding my bike is less with disc brakes. Maybe I’ll start to hate them less once I’ve gotten more comfortable with alignment, bleeding, etc. But for now I’m pretty annoyed that disc brakes seem to have taken over in road cycling.

@CastleKnight7 2 жыл бұрын

Look up some tutorial videos on how to align your disc brakes and you’ll never look back! 😊

@johnyang1420 2 жыл бұрын

My disk brakes constantly rub. Rim brakes win.

@robertschwartz3675 2 жыл бұрын

@@CastleKnight7 I have the same experience as the poster above where I almost do not want to ride as the disc brakes always need adjustment. To little tolerance for any movement and always rubbing. Hate the disc brakes.

@larslosh5598 2 жыл бұрын

sell it while its still worth something /:

@densyoh 2 жыл бұрын

just 2 months and you need to maintain them already? don’t u think they were not setup right in the first place?

@FlowJunkie65 2 жыл бұрын

Good video, Ollie - thank you and the film crew. Would your next vid compare hydraulic disc to mechanical disc brakes? I have had mountain bikes with both types, and aside from better modulation on the disc type, I didn't feel that there was much, if any, power differential between the 2. What has your and/or GCN's experience been between hydraulic vs. mechanical disc brakes on road bikes?

@michaelfasher 10 ай бұрын

Rim for road disk for dirt.

@krishnansrinivasan830 Жыл бұрын

Awesome & Thanks :)

@jpmorgen5726 2 жыл бұрын

I have to laugh about this "controversy"! The very first time I rode my new bike with hydraulic disc brakes, went into a downhill, off camber corner on a wet road, my dream had come true, safe, strong, predictable brakes!!

@kieronjohnson8834 2 жыл бұрын

V-brakes are/were safe, strong and predictable enough to keep me out of hospital for the 15 years I used them as a regular mountain biker. Disc brakes are generally better but that doesn't invalidate how good v-brakes were for the average MTB user. Gold is more valuable than silver, does that render silver worthless?

@mikefule330 2 жыл бұрын

I have 3 bikes, 1 with disc, 2 with rim brakes. I often ride for an hour or more without touching my brakes. I typically go for weeks without needing to do an emergency stop. 5 seconds per km saving on a descent with multiple hairpins would translate into 0 seconds per km of typical riding on the flat, or gently rolling roads. 5 metres saved on an emergency stop from over 50 kph on a slight downhill? A much smaller difference at typical commuting speeds on the flat. There is no doubt that disc brakes work better as brakes, but the question is whether the extra cost, weight and maintenance is worth it for real world riding for most of us most of the time. The biggest difference I notice is when riding in deep water or mud: my disc brakes don't clog up in the same way as my rim brakes do.

@stevenss8070 2 жыл бұрын

I live in Switzerland. My commute and real world rides are as in the video, of course not always that long and steep… If you don’t need the advantages of a disc break, then rim breaks are the better option for you. It’s the same thing with all other parts on bikes: It’s an extreme individual question of what is the best thing for you.

@zukzworld 2 жыл бұрын

Can you please have a video on packing the bike in travel bag or simple maintenance comparing disk and rim? It’s a big difference for average people, specially who travels with their bike.

@chrisbla8524 2 жыл бұрын

#askgcn Any ideas why my front disc brake only starts working properly after 20ish km? Until then on each ride it has massively reduced braking force and with crazy loud squeaking. I've changed the pads which solved temporarily and then the rotor which also solved for a while but eventually the problem always comes back. The rotor has black witness marks which wont come off (a standard consequence of friction I'm assuming as the back rotor has this too).The back one has always ben fine. Thanks Chris B

@gregvassilakos Жыл бұрын

It would have been interesting to evaluate the wear on the brake pads for each of those downhill runs. How many such runs could you do on the rim brake bike before it was necessary to replace the brake pads?

@GordoGambler Жыл бұрын

My SA XL-FDD drum pads have 30,000 miles. LOL. Tour bike is 290 lbs GVW.

@gregvassilakos Жыл бұрын

@@GordoGambler I have a tandem with rim brakes pus a drum brake on the rear. The drum brake is activated by a ratcheting lever on the stoker's handlebars. The idea is to use the drum brake as a drag brake on long downhills. My one complaint with the drum brake is that the stoker (my wife) panics and activates it whenever our speed exceeds about 20 mph.

@julianmorris9951 2 жыл бұрын

Here’s my experience of a true emergency stop on a 2017 bianchi all road with hydraulic shimano 105 disc on schwalbe g1 40c at 55psi, I’m 70kg rider, I rolled away from traffic lights, got up to 20 mph when a car turned right, no indication just did it🙄 couldn’t swerve it because of car on corner of junction so here goes first emergency stop in 30 years, pulled front brake to the f**king bar, back wheel came off the ground and I went over the handlebars and landed on the bonnet of the now stopped car🙄 it impressed me that the front wheel never locked up!! I think that on a 25c tyre it would have locked up and washed out and that was down hill on dry road at 20mph, no injuries 😎 Just to add, you don’t have time to modulate your braking in a true life of death emergency stop.

@coldforgedcowboy 2 жыл бұрын

There is a reason, that mountain bike stems have been getting shorter and shorter. It's to reduce endo when going ful brake.

@amandajane8227 2 жыл бұрын

I often came off my bike when the back rose up behind me on hard braking. Had to learn the mtb stop and get my butt waaayyyy back over the rear wheel.

@graememorrison333 2 жыл бұрын

I've done pretty much the same on rim brakes. An emergency 'Ohjeezusflippinchrist' endo at the end of a descent when a car turned in front of me. Front wheel didn't skid, but the back end lifted up, I'd guess, by a couple of feet. The car just drove on....

@julianmorris9951 2 жыл бұрын

@@graememorrison333 even though I ended up on the bonnet it could have been worse, the car stopped at an angle in the middle of the lane, it it hadn’t stopped I would have face planted into the B pillar!!!! I was lucky really!!!! Thank god I was in the drops as well, always am on decent though, imagine trying a proper emergency stop on The hoods!!🤣 I had no chance of keeping the back end down either, I’d gone back as far as I could in a blink of an eye, I’m surprised the brake line didn’t pop though to be honest!!🤣

@nerigarcia7116 2 жыл бұрын

I was one who thought disc brakes were unnecessary and just something for the elite racers but when I got a deal on a disc brake bike and put it through its paces I did find the discs brakes to outperform my rim brake bike. Just on stopping power alone it was better but the feel and modulation through turns makes it that much more fine tuned. They both do the job but I would just put the disc brakes in a category of a more fine tuned machine. I still love riding my rim brake bikes but on the technical stuff or in bunches I prefer the discs. From thinking disc brakes were frivolous, I now have 3 disc brake bikes. They're more work to set up and I didn't like the look of them at first (I'm getting used to them now), but I will probably continue with discs moving forward. I'll always keep a rim brake in the collection but it's more like me also having a vintage 80s bike, more nostalgia than performance.

@sixstanger00 2 жыл бұрын

I think it probably depends on the region where you ride. Here in the southern US, hydraulic or mechanical disc brakes are a must on mountain bikes, but on my road bike, they would be overkill. My typical "road ride" is a 9-mile stretch of road that I ride both ways. The first direction is a very gentle downhill, while coming back it's a steady climb. But no matter where I've ridden thusfar, I haven't got over 38 MPH on a descent. My rim brakes are more the adequate, as I seldom need to brake on my road bike. My MTB? That's another story...

@weichentechnikk8083 2 жыл бұрын

For a hobby rider (2-3 rides per week, roughly 50-70km per ride) who uses alloy rims, a good quality rim brakes (ultegra, dura-ace, etc.) with good pads are just fine. It's a shame though that bike brands are forcing discs onto people. Gotta restart the market i guess.

@ricardorusso1462 Жыл бұрын

I don’t feel that it’s just a matter of being “just fine”. I used to not be a very confident descender. During 5 years I had about 3 different pairs of alloy wheels, plus a set of carbon wheels. They never gave me the confidence I needed to descend fast in the dry and they were downright dangerous in the wet. I also used to be sceptical about disc brakes but now I have a disc brake bike with 28mm tires and I must tell you, I would rather go back to an aluminium frame on Sora with disc brakes than go to a top end carbon bike with dura ace rim brakes

@weichentechnikk8083 Жыл бұрын

@@ricardorusso1462 Depends on what you need I guess. I rarely descend more than couple hundreds of vertical meters (70-80kph max). If I lived in Switzerland or Austria and had to descend for many kilometers, then I guess discs would make sense. Since that is not happening, at least not regularly, it's not needed for most days. Not to mention the ease of maintenance.

@kakaisthecat Жыл бұрын

Same! I am also a casual rider. Rim brakes are just fine and easier and cheaper to maintenance. I have a Tiagra and the stoping power is sufficient.

@okantichrist 2 жыл бұрын

Skidding when you’ve locked your disc brakes up isn’t clever either especially on a group ride.

@7mpowerd 2 жыл бұрын

Both rim and disk can lock up.

@DaveCM 2 жыл бұрын

Moot argument when people argue against disc brakes by saying, "but you can lock up rim brakes."

@jcnbw01 11 ай бұрын

I ride both road and XC, so I've long been familiar with the benefits of both systems. Having used alloy rim braking for most of my road riding, haven't had much issues, even in heavy rain on descents. But when i upgraded to carbon rims, my word did that rattle my confidence not just on the descents, but just on wet riding overall. That 2-5 second delay before they bite is soooo disconcerting, that i've made a personal rule to only ride my rim brake bike on perfect dry conditions. Otherwise, always on the disc.

@VeganCatalyst 2 жыл бұрын

Depends where you live (weather, terrain) or have alternative choices for rainy days such as indoor training or even another bike with discs, but personally I'd take a nimble rim brake bike any day everyday over disc.

@georgivantov8411 11 ай бұрын

stopping power is bound by the friction between the tire and the road. Also Rim brakes bikes are lighter that is the big difference. Yes in wet conditions disc brakes are superior. But lets be honest here who rides constantly in the rain so fast that disk or rim brakes will matter that much. Also i am honestly doubting that in descents there is a difference between both brakes from a non pedaling standpoint. There could be way more different things that can get wrong. Yes brakes are important but they don't matter that much!

@dafiltafish 2 жыл бұрын

I would suggest a new test with metal rims to see if you get the same results.

@runningwithshemp Жыл бұрын

Ditto. Rim brakes with an alloy rim, blue Swiss Stop plus compressional housing work just fine. If it's wet out I'll just use my CX bike

@justinfo-jepy355 2 жыл бұрын

How about the difference of the distance of the two from the hub? I think its more easier to stop for a rim brake being far from the center hub. You know leverage

@andyczarny1 2 жыл бұрын

Great video and timing... I want to build New road bike and can't choose what kind of brakes .....

@caerffili_callin Жыл бұрын

For me one of the original attractions of the bicycle was it’s simplicity and ease of maintenance, now with the introduction of things such as hydraulic disk brakes and internal hose/cable routing things have moved to unnecessary complexity and expense. I can stop just fine on my rim brakes on the road so will not be changing, but good luck to those that want the latest fashion.

@twatts4436 Жыл бұрын

Whilst i understand your thoughts, at least in my experience (with two exceptions) I've found that discs are fit and forget. First exception: Bleeding. They need bleeding annually, but that's not difficult - just needs tools. Second: bent rotors after a crash. This led to constant rub until I straightened out the rotor. I'll admit that was annoying! You do get occasional noise from the caliper in winter if some mud gets in there, but that washes out. Mechanical disc is terrible and needs constant fettling.

@slowcyclist4324 Жыл бұрын

A disc brake is very simple to maintain, as simple as it was on rim brakes. 1) throw the bike at the mechanic 2) have a cup of coffee and read a book 3) pick it up in an hour to two. It’s been a decade of cycling, and it’s modern developments have hardly made bike maintenance any worse. In fact, it’s actually made it easier. Take tubeless for instance; I used to have to toss my bike to the shop to replace the tube whenever I got a puncture. With tubeless, I can’t even remember that last time I’ve had a puncture.

@lorenzodestefano4043 10 ай бұрын

I run a 9 colli with my xr4 rim brake, 4 hours under the rain, 180 km, elite drive wheels tubeless and campagnolo pads, finished in a decent time (5hr 15) not a problem whatsoever.

@WillPower46 2 жыл бұрын

Question: I ride a dura ace, rim braked, super six evo. With really fancy wheels it cost $10k in 2018. I would love disc brakes as I live on a proper climb. If I sold my bike and purchased a good brand 105 disc bike like a 2022 Lynskey would that be a good decision in your opinion or would I notice a big draw back. FYI the super six is 7kg including pedals. The lynskey would be like 8.5kg. Would really appreciate your thoughts on the matter. Thanks.

@larslosh5598 2 жыл бұрын

What size is it? The 2018 rim supersix is one of the last great road bikes, I might be interested. The Lynskey will be heavier, less stiff and generally slower and more sluggish. It looks nice and will last forever though.

@matube73 2 жыл бұрын

Durianrider might have an opinion about this. 🤔

@WORLDIMPACT 2 жыл бұрын

I'm waiting for that also😂

@fernandodisola6675 2 жыл бұрын

Disk for dirt, Rim for road.....simple no ifs or buts

@chrisjames1924 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, he’s still a thing is he? Unsubbed years ago.

@The2808erik 2 жыл бұрын

@@chrisjames1924 Too much truth.

@lufo5 2 жыл бұрын

So.. we have many guys here still using cars or motorbikes with only drum brakes... Aaah! Love the old school!🤣

@valk5045 2 жыл бұрын

Motor bike 200kg 100hp, racing bike 7kg and less than 1hp. Same thing sure.

@lufo5 2 жыл бұрын

@@valk5045 so Jeremy Clarkson is wrong. Less poweeeerr!🤣

@funkycoldm3dina 2 жыл бұрын

thanks for the sacrifice you made in the terrible rain that you made for us folks. I really appreciate it.

@admirale3000 2 жыл бұрын

The braking tests that you have done mean nothing because if you brake too hard on disk or rim you make a sun or you skid, so it is rather the grip that is tested

@oefzdegoeggl 2 жыл бұрын

Using both. For me, discs are better in braking. Still I use (mechanical) rim brakes on some builds. Main reason for that is that they will not cause any trouble if you put the bike into a car ... hydraulich systems don't like that too much. So all my hydraulic disc bikes are used locally only. Yeah, there's be an option to use mechanical disks but I don't find them any good. Most stupid possible thing would the opposite then, hydraulich rims. That makes no sense at all to me, combining all possible drawbacks.

@jamesmckenzie3532 2 жыл бұрын

I owned a disc brake bike for eight years. Never once did I have an issue with air in the brake lines. The one thing you should NEVER do with a hydraulic system is to hang it upside down as the fluid will drain down and air will bubble in. This may take a long time though.

@henrikerdland578 2 жыл бұрын

Another thing is that by switching to disc brakes I now only wear out a set of disc instead of wearing out my experience carbon wheels.

@MilanSmore 2 жыл бұрын

True of course but it does take a loooong time for someone to wear out the carbon rims if ever

@henrikerdland578 2 жыл бұрын

@@MilanSmore It took me about 20000 - 25000 km to wear down my carbon rims. I have done about 11000 km on my disc rotors and they are still not worn down.

@MilanSmore 2 жыл бұрын

@@henrikerdland578 that's unusually quick but good 4 you

@Pshady 2 жыл бұрын

Q. What are the aerodynamic advantages of the disc brakes? Q. Which system over heats first when decending alpe d’huez type long steep climbs in mid summer?

@KeithHeinrich 2 жыл бұрын

As always the correct answer is, it depends. It seems the pro peleton is now using discs almost exclusively so if cost is no object and ultimate performance is the goal, then there's your answer - discs on your hyperbike for sure. However if your needs, means and engine are more modest, and you don't need to descend like Nibali then alloy rims and rim brakes are a plausible option. Far cheaper, and zero faff albeit requiring a more leisurely, less aggressive approach to the descent than if on discs. I'll make another observation, for those of us with ballast, discs offer great reassurance as physics takes hold on a long steep descent. But you can cook pads and rotors if you get held up on a descent so they are not bulletproof. As for carbon rims and rim brakes, that's just asking for trouble if big climbs and technical descents are involved.

@srpelissier 2 жыл бұрын

In my experience disks are way much more confidence inspiring, no doubt, and I don´t even factor in such conditions as being in the mountains. The results are totally clear cut when it comes to breaking performances. But I get less work maintaining rim brakes which are absolutely worry free while my disc brakes (they were mechanical tbh) were more fiddly. The weight difference, depending on the series used would probably be negligible for my use. So yeah, nowadays, with the latest techs on a Pinarello in the alps: disks for sure, no surprise. A more sensible question might be "Brakes vs no brakes"; idk.

@neilrobinson7965 2 жыл бұрын

To be honest, i would take my rim braked bike to the Alps for road riding. Last time i was in the Alps i did a very hilly gravel ride with long and steep (road) descents. A single ride wore through a set of pads by about 50% and my ice tec ultegra front rotor warped due to the heat of the final very steep road descent and i then had permanent rub. Only solution was to replace the rotor. Same thing happened to my mate who was with me. Rim brakes are just much less hassle and expense!

@srpelissier 2 жыл бұрын

@@neilrobinson7965 it was raining all of 3 hours of todayś trip, was realizing my rim brakes could slow me down, but stop me? not really, my mindset was to not get into an accident all the way, luckily weather was so bad there was barely anyone on the road, saw a couple of deers though, and many snails :)

@yogicycle1 2 жыл бұрын

Performance aside - the debate will continue ad nauseam . It’s the high cost to repair discs and expertise required. This will be tough for those on tight budgets. I hope manufacturers try to stop the push of discs at the lower cost bikes, to allow cycling to continue for everyone. I now recommend high quality 2nd hand rim brake bikes to anyone steadying out.

@mihalis1010 2 жыл бұрын

High cost? Expertise required? What?? Why do people seem to think discs are so complicated?

@alexmichl3137 2 жыл бұрын

@@mihalis1010 They are compicated for people without proper tools. Plus if you buy 1300 euro bike you dont really need 10 sec faster descents. You much rather have bike that you dont need to service every 3 months because the cheap rotor bent or the cheap pads are gone again. Plus every time you take your wheel off you need to be extra careful not to bump in the brakes, coz you otherwise need to center them again, the list just goes on and on, with only benefit being little bit more responsive brakes and minor braking power advantage.

@johnng2277 2 жыл бұрын

If budget is an issue, maybe consider a different sport? Really. Why should we take a halt progress in a sport just because some folks are too poor to afford it? There’s football for them if they can’t do that. 14 of them can share one ball.

@yogicycle1 2 жыл бұрын

@@johnng2277 😂

@yogicycle1 2 жыл бұрын

@@johnng2277 22 surely !

@fleur9532 2 жыл бұрын

Great video

@tristenwilliams1943 2 жыл бұрын

Forget the tests, I’m drooling over those bikes

@k04s4 2 жыл бұрын

rim = road & disc = off-road

@jasonyoung1898 2 жыл бұрын

Interestingly tho, Cheap rim brakes are alot better when compared to cheap disc brakes. When using top of the line disc brakes as you are the results could only go one way

@DG-tf9rp 2 жыл бұрын

Brakes are used for Speed Control- Traction Control. If I had carbon wheels I would NOT use Rim Brake. I would use disc brake. I have Alloy Rim Brake and have no problem controlling my speed on descents in the dry. When it is wet, trying to go faster is not always the smartest thing to do. Everybody has to slow down in the wet. Tires is what gives you traction.

@colin7898 2 жыл бұрын

Disc brakes are good but the main reason I stopped using them and went back to rims is adequately demonstrated at 7:21 to 7:23. It’s so annoying everytime you brake no matter how much you try and clean them.

@cosinus_square 2 жыл бұрын

The rim brake bike had a handicap from the start, carbon rims. Even if you forget the tyre difference. Like you admitted yourself, aluminium wheels would have changed the scores. Having alloy wheels would have made the 2 bikes possibly weigh the same as well. I understand you can't get a hold of many components atm but alloy rim brake wheels is not one if them.

@mihalis1010 2 жыл бұрын

Having to have alloy wheel for the rim brakes to actually work properly negates the weight benefit people always seem to think rim brakes have though. Just get disc brakes and ride wheels from any damn material you want.

@cosinus_square 2 жыл бұрын

@@mihalis1010 carbon rims are not mandatory by any means, more so when comparing optimum braking properties when carbon is proven underperforming in that category. Considering carbon wheels only have weight playing in their favour, there's more to rim brakes than just weight. Like I stated, aluminium wheels would actually make the rim bike heavier which would be on point with the disc equipped bike. I'm only asking for a fair test, I'm not asking them to declare rim brakes as the winner.

@AnarchoKapital 2 жыл бұрын

You can’t built aluminum rims as deep as carbon. Deep is aero and aero is more important than weight. So…

@cosinus_square 2 жыл бұрын

@@AnarchoKapital what could possibly stop me from building another deep alloy wheelset?

@johnng2277 2 жыл бұрын

Having to use “alloy rim wheels” just to stop, should already demonstrate how stupid a system rim brakes are. Disc brakes stop regardless of your wheel material, rotor size or material. Plus, it also stops in a shorter distance.

@GT-sc5sk 11 ай бұрын

don't trust this test at any point, no real-time data was showed (speed, power) not the same bikes (areo and weight), not even sure the same tires setup..and very bad braking technique especially on rim brake..and why was no uphill tested but make wrong math? this test make no sense

@edouardlebreton1966 2 жыл бұрын

A very good discussion. On MTB the choice is obvious. For road bikes pros and cons. Am not everyday going down in the alps at 110 km/h so there is a debate. On disc brakes, am no mechanic but I don’t think they are difficult to maintain and fix ( thanks to KZfaq !!- and advise of my Orbea dealer)

@Mexximillion 2 жыл бұрын

For me it's always one of two factors limiting my braking distance: If it's dry, I am pulling a stoppie. If it's wet, or if I am on gravel, my front tyre loses grip. This is with Avid Single Digit 7s on Schwalbe Tyres, idk the rim right now. I could imagine the weird roadbike brake levers playing a role here. If on this emergency stop test he'd actually pulled the brakes he'd gone flying. This said, the fact that one of the two is hydraulic and the other one isn't may play a role here due to a more direct connection between fingers and brake pads? Not sure how much of that could be equalised with sufficiient practice and experience on the rim brake.

@jabelvik 2 жыл бұрын

Braking on disc might be better in some conditions. Both are sufficient for most riding. But disc brakes will turn bad on you at the most inconvenient time, typically when travelling or in a remote location with limited access to tools and spares. I ride both disc and rim. Rim brakes are practically maintenance free, disc brakes starts to rub and get contaminated very easily. For that reason i tend to ride rim most of the time.

@mihalis1010 2 жыл бұрын

Then you haven't set them up properly. Disc brakes on my road bike have had a quick bleed once in the past 2 years, and I've never had a problem with them. Learn to set the equipment up before blaming it.

@neilrobinson7965 2 жыл бұрын

@@mihalis1010 until you take them on a long, steep descent where you have to brake a lot and then your shimamo ice tec rotors get hot and warp. Then you have permanent brake rub. Only solution is to replace the rotor. There are still some issues to resolve with road disc systems unfortunately. And we are not even mentioning very short pad and rotor life.

@jabelvik 2 жыл бұрын

@@mihalis1010 So you say that you never had the slightest ting-ting-ting after a hard descent, or the slightest howl in the wet, or warped rotors? I am not saying rim brakes are perfect, just more predictable for me when I travel or go for long rides without a bag of tools. I inspect the pads, the rims and the caliper action, that's it. Disc brakes can work nicely for 1000s of km. But you cannot really predict when they need a service.

@neilrobinson7965 2 жыл бұрын

@D. W. they shouldn’t warp due to thermal stress in the first place! Bad design from shimano. I notice that the latest shimano dura ace rotors have dispensed with the aluminium and steel sandwich construction. I threw mine away because they were already below the minimum thickness after only 2300km. A very expensive business! I decided to go for cheaper ones this time around.

@mihalis1010 2 жыл бұрын

@@jabelvik sure, I hear it for about 20 meters until the rotor cools and it's back to normal again.

@stevek8829 2 жыл бұрын

This may not be an exhaustive scientific study, but neither was Galileo's cannonball demonstration. They both illustrate their points rather well. I'm surprised at the result as I've assumed tire traction to be the limiter in single stop performance. Thanks OB for risking life and limb and freezing for science. Next: effects of hypothermia on cyclists' braking performance.

@woutervanderdoes5163 2 жыл бұрын

It might well have been here. Rim brake bike used less grippy tyres on a narrower rim (cinturato vs p zero, 19 mm internal vs 21 mm) which probably accounted for a considerable amount in the difference in stopping distance...

@gcntech 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Steve!

@alexmichl3137 2 жыл бұрын

@@woutervanderdoes5163 Yea i was thinking about that too, he was basically sliding on both bikes the whole time so the additional braking power should not make any difference. Plus it can be due to the less responsivness of the rim brakes, so he was just putting full power in the brakes much later.

@koenvercammen2259 2 жыл бұрын

My new bike is my first disc brake, nothing than problems with it, i can't count the number of times i needed to recenter the brakes on two hand. It's good for 2 weeks and then it starts rubbing again. Next bike will definitfly be a rim brake again. I also don't notice any better performance from them and i already tried different manufacturers

@blaablaa1718 2 жыл бұрын

Appreciated the well done test but it would make more sense if it were on the kind of bikes or at least the groupsets we use. 105/Rival and alloy wheels.

@LoscoeLad 2 жыл бұрын

we?

@blaablaa1718 2 жыл бұрын

@@LoscoeLad and sensah for markone

@robertmuckle2985 2 жыл бұрын

I'd love to see a comparison (overtime) of spoke stressing on rim vs disc...cause braking at the disc (hub) is putting incredible stresses on the spokes as they struggle to decelerate a wheel that doesn't want to slow. Not the case with rim brakes that are easily slowing the outer rotation of the wheel, causing far less stresses.🤔

@frankficarrotta9683 2 жыл бұрын

Robert, Just because a disc brake can stop a wheel quicker than a rim brake doesn’t mean that it has to. The speed that the wheel decelerates is determined by the force put on the wheels to stop. Modulation determines how much energy is used to stop, and there is really no debate on that topic. Disc breaks are the clear winner when it comes to modulation. As for stressing the wheel in general a breaking system that actually applies pressure to the wheel itself as in rim brakes is more likely to stress the wheels than using a disc.

@rajagoswami277 2 жыл бұрын

this is the most imp comment for comparison

@durianriders 2 жыл бұрын

Discs good for the wet so you can lock up your road race tire when the deer runs out on you and slide right into it or slide out and lose total control like they do in the World Tour now a lot more. Rim brake for best modulation for road race tires. Hydro disc are just too powerful for emergency braking. Look at all the extra crashes in the WT now. It is comical. Disc brake if you run 32mm plus tires at sub 60psi. Now your contact patch on your tire is OK to handle the power of hydro disc during emergency stops.

@FellOverLaughing 2 жыл бұрын

Intelligent analysis

@100AlexDavie 2 жыл бұрын

Can definitely see Ollie skidding on that emergency stop with the discs. That’ll be a nice flat spot and new tyre thanks…. Now add in the Adrenaline of a REAL emergency and the blokes hitting the deck

@tinglydingle 2 жыл бұрын

@@100AlexDavie you can clearly see him skid on the rim brakes too

@tinglydingle 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah when I raced on the road I wasn't massively impressed with disc brakes, admittedly that was 8 years ago and tech has advanced since then. On my gravel bike however, they've saved me from crashing at least twice!

@hardcheese 2 жыл бұрын

shocking i know but this is a totally rigged test anyway. What about climbing on a disc bike? What about warped discs after a big decent? What about using metal braking surface with the direct mount brakes? All of these things would swing it back to rim brakes