lets go china brand bike companys!

The info is confusing in this article. It must be the small brands discounting their product at 40%. I know if Trek, Specialized, or Giant were selling their bikes to retailers at 40% off we’d see much better deals. I think Specialized would dump their 2022 or 2021 new old stock in the ocean before discounting that heavily.

@@Sweetskis I'm not "in the loop", but I don't understand this either. If inventory were large on bikes people wanted now, regular market prices would be down, but they're not, they're up. Also, there wouldn't be so many things unavailable. I do see lots of sales, but if the prices were too high to begin with, sale price may still be a hard sell.

@@Sweetskis Big brands have way too much overhead for 40% discounts... They have huge offices, warehouses, lots of employees, advertising/sponsorships (a huge chunk of change). Even if Specialized is producing bikes for the same cost as smaller tiers (Polygon, Quintana Roo, Fuji, etc), they can't sell them low without losing money because they are a bloated marketing machine.

Customers not coming in. What about E-bikes? No one seems to see what I see - E-bikes on every bike trail, on the roads. People with a bit of money often bought good quality bicycles. Now they bike e-bikes. This could be a longer-term trend than just selling off excess inventory.

It’s insane

truth

The shareholders pushing harder and harder to keep getting their dividends, while everyone else toils to make it happen. Covid took a dent to corporate profits, and the great inflation had more to do with 'catching up' than with the war in Ukraine. Now, there's this Karl guy who would have something to say about this whole mess...

Facts re: prices

After printing 10 trillion $ in 4 years bike prices are never going back to what they were pre pandemic. The USD has lost so much value with the rampent money printing.

Then on TOP of that, they don't want to discount bikes that are UNSOLD. To your point its GREED

Groceries high due to corporate greed?

@@jered2177 literally yes…… the costs rose because of fundamentals originally. In fact, on an earnings call I believe with either Coca Cola or pepsi-the CEO or person leading the call had even alluded to the cost pressure subsiding and them seeing strong demand at the prices so for the profit margins they weren’t going to drop them back. The reason costs are high and continue to be-is because consumers aren’t saying enough is enough and cutting back. They pay what it costs. These companies aren’t gonna change until people stop paying what they’re ripping you off for.

@davidkaplan5517 oh I figured it was devaluing of the US dollars that they print and send over seas to fund Ukraine war and Israel's attack on Palestinians.

@davidkaplan5517 oh I figured it was from printing money to fund Ukraine war and to Israel to attack Gasa. It devalues US dollar

I mean there are used alternatives to buy at that price points but also I just think that the entry level consumer is not buying bikes or splurging like they use to

Losing casual participants to paddle ball? (communities around the US of course) I see a growth in non-competitive cycling in my area. Also ebikes are visible in a big way. Speaking to seasoned road cyclists - even they have more fear of dangers from inattentive motorists. Got to imagine that's on just about everyone's mind.

My Cannondale Synapse 105 alloy was $1250 in 2007. I guess with inflation that would now be $1,880. I don't think you're getting a mechanical 105 alloy bike today for that, other than the Canyon Endurace 7, which upgrades on my Cannondale in two key respects, Shimano-branded disc brakes as opposed to house-brand rim ones, and a decent DT Swiss wheelset as opposed to the flexy, skinny, low-spoke Shimano ones my Synapse came with. But that Canyon is almost a pound heavier than my Synapse in its original configuration, two pounds heavier now that my Synapse has lighter and better wheels than it did. Worth pointing out most sizes of that Endurace 7 are out of stock right now. So where there's value, there's demand.

i got a 2020 epic hardtail for $800 pretty much brand new some chick broke up with her BF

@@m.talley1660 E-Bikes must be a huge impact on sales. All I see is electric bicycles.

😂 this is so true

Thats what elite business schools teach their MBA students.

The major costs are in marketing and distribution, that’s why Poseidon can afford to sell a pretty decent gravel bike for $899. Good enough spec, no frills, no big ad budgets, direct to consumer

Yep, been riding for a very long time when frames where made by the italians,hand brazed now they are made all in china with italian & other companies sticker names with premium prices,now even the cheap china cycling frames are expensive

lmao

they all looked pro bikes

Canyon's are more like 400, but still... Chicarbon is more like 100-200

Record levels of inventory but yet prices to consumers don't reflect it. Smells like bankruptcy to me.

Why I stay old school. Bars are like 50 bucks, less for a stem, and DT shifters are cheap.

High end Chinese brand bar/stem combos are also high 300s to 400+ which is wild. Panda podium has some of them

Yep,1K for a cockpit that will need swapping out after a fit adjustment or for a new buyer...crazy

as long as your out there riding

I smash people all the time with my CAAD. My 2015 poor man’s race bike is lighter and stiffer than the crap being made today.

same here, literally companies were saying we are taking orders and biggest orders take priority, this was told to us by every rep and they said you can cancel at any time just for these sales reps to make there commission and for these companies to take those orders to the bank and get as much cash possible for bike orders.. then once demand stoped orders were left

agreed I use a poseidon X for commuting and fun for the price you get a good bike that you can upgrade over time

we got some allez on the floor for 1200

@@GCPerformance18not the sprint comp. 😂😂😂

Poseidon makes good gravel bikes for under a $1,000 I use one

Same, I rebuilt a 2004 CAAD4 with a 5yo ultegra group set. Total price was around 600. A real head turner, especially when I drop them.

Yeah new bikes are a ripoff. Bike frame and parts lasts for ages. There are lots of second hand mint conditions in the market much cheaper than new bikes.

:)

Hourly labor is hourly labor. Good mechanics love a big billable mess.

@@ElevatedAgenda My local shops are always crying about not being able to find mechanics. That's because they pay less than $20/hr.

@@ElevatedAgenda Not one of the mechanics I spoke with would love to put together your jigsaw puzzle. Or if they did, it's going to be way expensive. You could buy a high quality box of bicycle tools for less.

@@jamesmckenzie3532 Generally, I do my own wrenching. When I'm too busy, I find the best and pay them a high rate for it. I don't look for a bargain. I understand how technical good work is and I don't want someone cutting corners or cursing me under their breath as they work on my expensive stuff. It always works out well.

@@jamesmckenzie3532 I generally do my own wrenching. When I'm too busy and need something quickly, I find the best and pay them a high rate. I know how technical the work can get and I don't want someone who barely cares cutting corners on my expensive stuff. It always works out well.

Yep, I have a bunch of Supersix Evos and each one I can flip for double or triple what I paid. I'm gonna ride em forever

The SL3 is almost a 20 year old design. This is not a serious comment.

Add two to the list of “things that didn’t happen” Selling and flipping those stuff for profit? lol you folks should be thankful if you can even get someone to pay you half of what you got it for

yea I know shops who are still not servicing direct to consumer bikes, I dont know what it is but I have done videos on my thoughts of d2c bikes and I think that drew more attention to me for that so people bring me there bikes for it lol

imagine taking your car in for repairs and the shop refuses because you didn't buy your car there. maybe these shops pay their mortgage with arrogance

@@ToddChaddingtonEsq😂💀 for real, that’s really wild. Now if I hear a bike shop owner complaining about how hard times are first thing I’m going to ask is “you arnt refusing to service bikes that wernt bought through retail are you?” Because it’s impossible for me to have sympathy for that. How can you refuse to money from someone who wants to pay you for your labor?

@@ultrastoat3298 i can get whatever product i want shipped to me immediately; you need to come up with a good reason to get me to go into your store and pay (via your margin) a premium to do so

this is only true about ebikes

Agree, but where do you live? Most western cities are experiencing crime (bicycle theft) rates are far outpacing the police crime clear up rates.

@@primafacie6442 Bicycles have always been stolen. Cities and businesses need to do more to provide safe places to lock and store bicycles. More bicycles need to come with trackers installed. Apple air tags can help find a stolen bicycle.

Thank you very much for this!!

Greed???

@@mikespadafora9077 Totally. Companies are trying to maintain the crazy profits they had during the pandemic, not pre-pandemic, which means raising pricing more for the same product disproportionate to their actual costs, even factoring in higher acquisition costs. In the end, no company likes to make less profit than they did in recent memory-- even if the current environment doesn't warrant it. For many companies in many different industries, inflation is a convenient excuse to raise pricing today as they know some customers will expect it-- justified or not. Not unlike car makers and $tealers in the last few years as the average price of cars has skyrocketed while buyers are given 72-month loans which make them underwater in a year or two.

The bottom line is there is more profit margin on higher-end bikes, and if that means less sales volume, the higher margin on the fewer bikes can sustain a certain min profitability for these companies. It's as if bike manufacturers know non-cyclists won't be buying new bikes for a long time. This is what car manufacturers have done in the last 5 years by discontinuing cheap small- and mid-sized sedans and hatchbacks due their low profitability and now only offer expensive SUV's, etc, with skyrocketing median new-car pricing-- enabled by cheap money and 72-month loans. I'm surprised bike manufacturers haven't tried direct-to-consumer sales with subsidized cheap financing on their more-expensive bikes.

Same. This is a key point you've made, the bike industries product has moved away from what the normal non-pro rider needs. Its a concept of 'unnecessary performance' where the industry is trying to sell an amateur all the sharp end racing performance when all they really need is a reliable and nice riding bike, which could be had at a fraction of the r&d and engineering cost. I've been riding 40 years, used to work in the industry and wouldn't spend my money on any of these mid-range mainstream brand offerings- I'd rather find a top condition high end frame from 10 years ago and build it up myself the way I like it, don't need anything more.

absolutely true especially for road biking

The high mileage cyclists I see often don't ride modern bikes but durable easy to maintain bikes. They do fine riding long audaxes of 600km and more on them (200km is my limit).

Nearly every bike I've bought was something that had to be ordered and often they were out of stock. It seemed every year they would sell out of inventory by summer then it became a waiting game for the next model year. I don't see that as new.

Same here... We had maybe 10 bikes over $1k at my shop. But....bikes were also a lot cheaper back then. A flagship road bike with 7700 was maybe $2500. Most of the bikes we sold were that $500-1000 mark, which actually were decent bikes... That price would still get you a mountain bike with LX components or road bike with 105.

…or a motorcycle. I sold my pinarello and put the money on a motorcycle lol

we jsut have to be smart about the situations and make smart choices

thats awesome nice adventure with the kids

yea they are doping a great jhob and also getting there brand nice exposure

Go 90's to 2008 , cheep as hell and much better tech like 7800 Dura Ace and Columbus alloy megatube frame ! Mike Burrows Carbon spoked wheels ! Not 2024 10p spokes and a lazer cut brake disc for £5 each , cheep to produce hence all gone disc and 1950's spokes , modern cyclists have gone backwards in tech ? Spokes ? OMG no

Bought some NOS STX hubs and mechs recently to keep my old mtb's going.

I'm on a Gary Fisher that I bought a couple years ago for $165. Suits me fine. I could 100X the price ($16,500) and go 1km/h faster with less exercise.

yea no lie right now that applys a lot to current market for everything not jsut bicycle, product is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it

I can't even remember the last time I watched TV.

@@GB-ez6ge What is a TV 😅

thank you so much!!!

Exactly. Why is a mountain bike as much as a KTM 450 with programmable ignition modes, traction control, killer suspension (relatively) and tech that is no more than 3 years old?

Drop the price 70% and the buyers will come

Except it's not really reduced pricing when the bike MSRP is 2k and it's reduced to 1.8k for an aluminum frame, aluminum fork, and mechanical 105. Sure, prices of things get more expensive but aluminum frames and 105 mechanical groupset hasn't changed much. Even with 105 disc costing $750 that doesn't make any sense why the frame/fork/handlebar/seat/aluminum wheelsis over 1k. Shimano may be one factor as they charge too much for a groupset but the long running brands have no reason why they still charge as much as they do for aluminum frames when we know Chinese companies make Carbon frames for even less.

yea even with discounts people arnt looking for deals right now, they are looking to hold money

Car buyers typically swap every 3 years , bike manufacturers seem to be under the impression that the punters are gonna buy a 10k bike every year 😂 What could possibly go wrong

@@GCPerformance18 as I've said. You drop a Tarmac S Works SL8 to 4k and people will buy, me included

It's a less severe version of the late 70s to early 80s economy. Hopefully that doesn't mean it will last longer.

@@gk589134 trillion in debts, fasten your seat belts, it will be a bumpy ride.

So you missed how our war on Vietnam caused stagnation and inflation in the 70's? Interest rates were 25% and there was zero job growth, then OPEC cut off gas and prices tripled in a few days. We are in much better shape today. It took me a while to recover from the 70's, but I'm doing Great right now.

@@russshaber8071 He said he's in his 50s, so he was a little kid during Ford and Carter. So he may not remember, dad.

yea the middle class is disappearing and you need at least 100k now to be considered middle class level

the costs of doing business isnt allowing the new bikes to go under, the companies are struggling to maintain the prices they were by the time the bikes hit our shores with shipping containers and boats and costs of material, but you will see once those bikes are out of year they are dumping 40-50 percent off just to get there moeny back

The same reason a Big Mac meal costs almost $15... The whole supply chain is way overpriced.

@@cup_and_cone overpriced or we are just livng through the largest monitary debasement in modern history. Sadly this is the new norm when the US government and other G7 countries print trillions of FIAT $.

@@GCPerformance18 The shipping squeeze is over, at its peak a 40ft container cost $25k, now they are back down to under $5k per container, you can fit a lot of bikes in a 40ft shipping container. The reality is a really simple one. Once someone sells something they used to sell for $100 for $200, nobody wants to go back to selling it for $100 until the bottom falls out and the only guy left is the one willing to sell it for $100. The cost for road bikes are completely outlandish and unjustified, especially if you understand the way manufacturing actually works, and that there is little to no difference in the tooling costs to make an entry level mountain bike, and a road bike or an e-bike. If it were about R&D, and shipping, the e-bikes would be much more expensive than they are. Tubing extrusion, and carbon mold making are mature industries at this point. Tooling costs the same for any shape you want made for a frame essentially, and large brands are manufacturing in such large quantities, that even the cost of tooling is amortized to pennies a frame, so its not an excuse for pricing. Neither is R&D, they have a couple engineers running computational fluid dynamics simulations for aero if that, again... amortized to pennies a frame. At the end of the day they are putting together 3 triangles. That small manufacturer can make carbon bikes in-house for comparable prices with comparable performance, while selling very low quantities and customizing things for you, tells you everything you need to know about the truth of pricing, and R&D. There is of course inflation that never goes backwards, but prices went crazy especially for road bikes before inflation took off.

Where I’m from it’s waaay cheaper buying items online. I wait until I require a bunch of things and then batch purchase from bike24, bikeinn, etc. the savings I get is often up to %40 over buying locally. It helps that I do my own mech work as well.

yea they are buying the online parts without even asking or giving a chance to stores

@@GCPerformance18 I'm buying online coz where i live price in a store are 2 times more expensive , sometimes even more. Also they have only few products, the basic ones.

I think the combination of Shimano's supply chain management and the Leegin v PSKS Supreme Court decision from 2007 is toxic there (the conservatives on the court decided to allow vertical price fixing, such as insisting on a minimum sale price; Shimano don't seem to be able to control counterfeits or unofficial imports and then aggravate it by setting prices lower in Europe); so LBS have to stick to an excessive MSRP due to the court case, but then there's the torrent of imported stuff at steep discounts, some of it genuine, some of it counterfeit.

Where you located at?

thank you so much for watching!!

The original definition of inflation, Bolshevik usury fee.

yea I made a video about this too this is a world economy thing

Not really true. Wages in the US are now going up faster than inflation by quite a bit. Bike prices specifically have gone up WAY faster than inflation or wages. I looked up what would beat my 105-ten-speed 2007 Cannondale Synapse for value ($1,250 in fall 2007 price, equivalent to $1,880 now), and came up with precisely one item -- the Canyon Endurace 7. Everything else seems to be nudging upper $2K to $3K.

@@danielbliss1988 yeah same in the UK.... however in the UK all the wage growth is at the bottom end of wages, not middle or upper middle where most the road cycling demographic sits.

@@danielbliss1988 Also it's pretty well documented that wages have not kept in line with inflation for many generations now, so my statement is nothing new really.

Everything reached it’s zenith in early 2ks

nostalgic

I agree for the most part. The average person doesn't need 12 speed, internal cables, aero tubes, integrated cockpit, discs, or electric shifting. Wider rims and wider tires are really the only thing that would be a noticeable improvement for everyday casual riding.

Just so, '97 to 2004.

I feel no need to update my bikes bought in the 90's and early 2000's. They are easy to maintain and perform well enough for my needs. The only challenge is finding spare parts for them, stocking up my garage with as much as I can.

yea it is crazy it is like its a win win for them, either you struiggle and skim by and fufil the massive order and sell there product while you are struggling to move all that, or you dont do the order and they drop you

Id generally agree. When i sell something im always fair. People seem to be asking crazy prices for used bikes. And i see 1st hand people abusing them.

They are often completely fucked needing $1,000 in parts to bring them back up to good condition so they become a poor deal overall

@@jamesbennett1691 your totally wrong I’ve bought literally 100’s of bikes that hardly need a penny spending. So many people buy bikes with good intentions and then hardly use them, leave them for several years and that’s where I come in, I’ve had mint kona’s that cost over a grand new for less than £100

​@@Timemachine74 Why? Because beginners... They have no idea how to tell clapped out bikes from good bikes. Even if you are experienced, buying online can still be a huge risk without seeing the bike in front of you. Most people just want new with warranty and service support.

yea this is the truth, and even that now right now the bikes on the floor when someone is spending this kind of money they want dif bars and stem and crank size and chainrings, the stock bikes are hard to sell anyways

hell yea it does, to pay for rent, we have storage place that is small 30x15 and the rent has gone up nearly 4 times the orginal price since 2020

@@GCPerformance18 Do you think the big brands that are sitting on loads of 2021 and 2022 model year bikes will end up destroying them or destroying the frames to preserve price points on current year models? Do you think they may end up dumping them on the market in developing countries at discount or even dumping the inventory in the west? As a LBS would you welcome heavily discounted 2021 or 2022 stock? Do you think you could sell through it successfully or do you fear it would have a lasting negative effect on your price points and margins?

That 5k bike is like 2,5k in Shimano ⚡ groupset, another 1,5 for a wheelset and rest is not that different from the other, cheaper offerings from the manufacturer.

@@kennethdarlington using consumer prices indeed. Canyon is not paying that to Shimano and DT Swiss for their €4.5k aeroad.

Stupid mark-up, my AliExpress Polarized Sunglasses cost less than £6 direct from China but over £40 if I bought in the UK. Brake callipers I bought recently cost £24 from China but over £70 from UK retailer.

Apple and oranges. Literally. You're saying, "Hey, I know you want an apple, but buy this orange, it's cheaper!" A motorcycle is not a bicycle.

yea it is a lot of work like anaything, and im not saying everyones job or making money isnt work, this is what we signed up for

its like anything, there are premium products in every category, like watches or top tier cars, or iphones

You’re comparing street bikes to top end racing machines. The bikes raced in MotoGP cost millions. The bikes raced in the TDF can cost up to 20,000.

​@@thomasfitzgibbon1675 You can get a pretty good bike (eg Ninja 400) for 5k. I guarantee more money and engineering has gone into that than any 'top end racing machine' at the TDF. MotoGP bikes are on another planet by comparison.

I love the idea of "accurate Preseason Orders" but when the company you work with expects a number from you, its wild, we can give them a realiztic number that we fell comfortable with, but at this point we have a high ask from them in a declining economy, and if we dont deliever we get punished

really? are you located here or over seas?"

@@GCPerformance18 East Coast. My rep is super chilled. My biggest problem is getting stock during this winter.

thank you so much!!!!

yea I know of a shop who bought a ton of there backstock inventory and have been blowing those models out online for around that same price which is insane

really? we are not right nwo but also we are not in season, and yea lacing a wheel is big money here they charge like 150 for it lol

yea its wild for a current modle year stock bike I do not know why the stock levels are not higher of those models

these prices have been for a long time, these prices honestly were nothing new, they have all just raised since inflation but this is nothing new I just think rising costs for everyday living is the problem

@@GCPerformance18 I disagree but that is the nature of a forum. Inflation doesn't make a bike that cost $5K now cost $15K. Bicycles costing more than a decent motorcycles makes absolutely no sense to me. If people want to buy them, and you can sell them, have at it. Just not for me.

I did at the start of my youtube channel but i might do this again

yea they stopped making bikes for fun or transport anymore and now everything is a show off piece for the company like look how cool our commuter hybrids are they have a bunch of high end tech that is not needed and expensive

the allez were beautiful, it got people excited about th esport

thanks so much, we have to just be smart and do all we can to make it work, just like any business out there, but yes debt right now is way more expensive then it was 3 years ago

economy lol, because covid times, people were buying everything like crazy

Are you for real? So how big do you think your meltdown would be if, you had to wait almost a year for your bike to be built for you.......oh, & you had to have won gold before the build was offered to you in the first place?

yea people have different experiences, I wonder what the part was? was it the brand part that they sold? was it a modern part? or a part from 10 years ago? stores need to stock what sells and what is in demand, not every item possible from 5/10 year old bikes, its hard to stock every single item

yea its crazy walmart is even getting expensive too

yea If shops were able to do this they made out and are probably not feeling the stress which is a good thing

@@GCPerformance18 very small shop so that is why. Hopefully things get better as I am looking forward to new stuff once in my budget

You paid bout 200 too much

Nah that’s putting it too high. Honestly it’s worth around 400, altho I’d honestly put it at 300 odd realistically. There are dudes on the local second hand market who can’t even move a 2022 polygon s5d for 700USD. You got ripped off man, if you paid 800£ for that

yea it seems everyone is tired of being ripped off except for the really rich who do not care and want it now

holy shit that is horrible, but also I have had friends who wanted to buy bikes from me who I knew there financial situations and I told them not too and they end up buying and selling 6 motnhs later and taking a hit

When a credit company is offering 0% finance for two years it only makes sense to use their money and pay it off over two years

thank you!!

U are then part of the problem :) More colors per model would be higher prices

Started off on a 5 speed road bike, mostly steel, stiff and heavy. I was strong enough to ride it up steep hills fast then that have me in the small ring of a triple these days. The brakes were next to useless in the wet with the steel rims but it was a great bike that fitted perfectly and I clocked up a ton of miles on it.

yea I hear you on that, I see a lot of bike shops having more older crowd of employees but yes this is the way for sure including ordering food too younger crowd with money ahve all these problems they dont want to go out and buy things in store they order everything to there home

@@GCPerformance18 Yea, and I know I'm not helping my local bike shop by doing this, I'm just a very introverted person. And I think I got used to it during Covid having everything delivered. Quick question, in the last 5 years let's say, has there been a big shift in your income sources let's call it, from bike/parts sales vs labor/maintenance? For example, say 5 years ago, maybe you were 70% sales and 30% labor/repairs/maintenance. And now you're 40% sales and 60% labor. Has there been a big shift in this since Covid and the introduction of direct to consumer ordering? Now that Specialized allows customers to order online.

eveyrone keeps saying something has to give but i have a feeling the only thing that has room to give is the consumer and we might have bigger problems then just bike prices

yea it seems this is the case and it seems a lot of the business tooko the info from covid and just applued it to the whole business and wanted the most cash for each bike model, which is stupid