German Perfection vs The Right Arm Of The Free World (FN FAL/L1A1 & CETME/G3 Rifles Compared)

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German Perfection vs The Right Arm Of The Free World (FN FAL/L1A1 & CETME/G3 Rifles Compared)

Рет қаралды 21,024

Күн бұрын

Wanting to pull out some of my all-time favorite rifles, today I thought it might be fun to really compare & contrast two competing designs from the Cold War: The FN FAL/L1A1 SLR & The CETME Model C / HK G3. For half a century folks have debated which platform is better and why? So this weekend, here are my 2 cents.
Example pieces in the video include: British BSA L1A1 SLR vs Spanish MARS CETME Sport, and Argentine FMAP 50.63 Para vs Springfield Greek SAR-3.
And if you are interested in more, here are some related videos....
FN SAFN-49 History:
• Belgian SAFN Model 194...
My Most Recent FAL Deep-Dive:
• Austrian Steyr STG.58 ...
Evolution of the MP.43/44/STG44:
• The German MP43/MP44/S...
And more On The Spanish CETME too:
• Spanish CETME Mod C & ...
cheers,
Interested in becoming a Patreon contributor? Check out our Patreon page at:
/ mishaco
Visit mishacooba.blog... to read more articles.
This video is produced and published to KZfaq for historical and educational purposes and to document and make record of the content herein publicly available for said purposes. The Mishaco channel is run by experienced and trained industry professionals and all activity portrayed and content herein is presented with all considerations to safety and in accordance with local, state, and the Federal law of the United States.

Пікірлер: 132

@9HoleReviews 2 жыл бұрын

I used to prefer the FAL, but i now far prefer the G3.

@joeshmuckatelli4447 2 жыл бұрын

Same

@OutsideTheTargetDemographic 2 жыл бұрын

L O V E the freaking lines of the G3. Wish I could afford to shoot it more often. 😢

@chunglow7646 2 жыл бұрын

@@OutsideTheTargetDemographic Ammo expenditure costs weigh in greatly. NRA has program to learn handloading used cases. Brass cases Are rising In price. 38 spcl once fired were available for a NICKEL apiece. Quite awhile back. $00.74-75 cents apiece Now.

@OutsideTheTargetDemographic 2 жыл бұрын

@@chunglow7646 Walmart used to have ammo for 50c/rd. Then they decided people who buy ammo were evil or whatever bullshit they decided on, and now I can't thave nice things. 😭

@MinhVu-in9iz 2 жыл бұрын

I’ve never used the FAL, but still prefer the G3 more!! I like the design more!!

@cjnoldner8526 2 жыл бұрын

No lie last night I did some trading with my uncle and got my fal back that I sold him years ago . It's an l1a1 just like the one in your video it was the only one I ever regretted selling. Crazy

@ElTejon47901 2 жыл бұрын

You may be from a gun family if your gun show is your uncle's house.

@davidschaadt3460 2 жыл бұрын

I had a FAF ,and a Cetme that I traded long ago . Sorry ,Sorry ,Sorry.At 67 ,I've bought back most of the guns that I traded or sold and regretted. FAL sorry .Nice program.

@davidschaadt3460 2 жыл бұрын

I had a FAF ,and a Cetme that I traded long ago . Sorry ,Sorry ,Sorry.At 67 ,I've bought back most of the guns that I traded or sold and regretted. FAL sorry .Nice program.

@joshhorn5131 2 жыл бұрын

I was just thinking about my l1a1. I have missed that one badly.

@akforge 2 жыл бұрын

On his website Larry Vickers states that his favorite legacy MBR is the 18” Para FAL but that the G3 is the most robust of all the Cold War MBR’s. Leroy Thomson wrote a book entitled “The G3 Battle Rifle” where I read about the US trials conducted by the Picatinny Arsenal. They concluded that the G3 had fewer failures in sand and mud tests than the FAL and the M14. They also stated that the G3 could be rebuilt more times than the FAL and the M14 thus extending it’s service life.

@ronalddunne3413 11 ай бұрын

The G3 was designed with the lessons of the Russian battlefields fresh in their minds. Fail Safe and scheiss-proof.

@SalvationThroughFaith777 2 жыл бұрын

Just bought a PTR 91 yesterday and now you come out with this video, sweet!

@Lutz101 2 жыл бұрын

The FAL is more 'old school' with its machined receiver, but I believe the simpler G3 is more reliable in adverse condition while it's easier to fit optics to it (more so now that some variants come with a Picatinny rail welded to the upper). I also prefer the workmanlike look of the G3 and like that it has the same manual of arms as the MP5 which is my preferred SMG/PCC.

@JGA347 2 жыл бұрын

I've always preferred the look and shooting experience of the FAL, but that's just personal preference. I agree with you that the G3 is more reliable in adverse conditions.

@bryy2053 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for sharing your collection and knowlege about their history etc with us. Its always a good time and helps me discern how to build my own collection......slowly

@zoyuomg5934 2 жыл бұрын

That g3 with the wooden furniture looks exactly like the Fallout 3 assault rifle, i love it

@Jake-vz6cf 2 жыл бұрын

I’m guessing you’ve seen it already but forgotten firearms has a April fools joke on the type 93 rifle. Fully functional and quite a cool piece somebody built

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

lol, that's great. That is one video game series I am a bit familiar with. Of course I've never played it but I know things 2nd-hand.

@hallupnorth1082 2 жыл бұрын

Nice video once more Misha. I enjoy battle rifle talk. All i own so far is a cetme model c from century. My best regards and wishes

@brianwilhelm37 2 жыл бұрын

Hey Misha!! Keep up the good work pal! Your videos are always fun and relaxing.

@user-lz5kn1ch2t 9 ай бұрын

The G3 is a CETME C manufactured in Germany under a Spanish license. In fact, until the 1980s, the initials CETME were stamped on them. The same thing also happened with the FN.

@hellcatdave1 5 ай бұрын

Where is your proof of the CETME stampings? I've viewed many examples of the G3 and none have that.

@user-lz5kn1ch2t 5 ай бұрын

@@hellcatdave1 es.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetme

@user-lz5kn1ch2t 5 ай бұрын

En enero de 1959, el Bundeswehr adoptó oficialmente el cetme como arma para sus ejércitos, pero el gobierno de Alemania Federal deseaba fabricarlos por lo que adquirió a la empresa holandesa Nederlandse Wapen en Munitiefabriek (NWM) que tenía los derechos de producción y venta del cetme fuera de España, la licencia para producirlos íntegramente en Alemania, otorgando el contrato a Rheinmetall, y con posterioridad a Heckler & Koch introduciendo variaciones como la mira giratoria, momento en que la marca Cetme desaparece de los modelos alemanes dando paso al HK G3.[1][5

@user-lz5kn1ch2t 5 ай бұрын

@@hellcatdave1 It had it stamped on the ammunition acceptor (the magazine acceptor).

@thekaiser7772 2 жыл бұрын

Looking to pick up a PTR at somepoint this year if I can

@John-ro3vu 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! Para FAL is my favorite shooter, and my G3K is my second choice, after owning many variations of both those are the two I kept. I like the G3 for its simplicity and insensitivity to ammunition variation. In line with what you said - I feel like the FALs excessive gas adjustment is a detriment to a military force, and can even be difficult for civilian shooters with all of the ammunition types of varying quality on the market.

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

Reminds me of AR15s w/ adjustable gas systems. Yes, it can have big benefits but not without some detractions too.

@davidduafala3050 2 жыл бұрын

The L1A1, 50.00 and 50.63 model FAL is softer shooting than the G3. The FAL just feels better in my hands. The FAL is elegant in every way where as the G3 just crude and unrefined. Great video. Keep up the good work

@TheGunsNBlades 2 жыл бұрын

Im biased towards the G3 & one whom doesnt mind that gentle push/twist. Plus, when we where able to get HK91 mags for $2.99, having a few hundred mags may bechind my biased.

@moistjohn 2 жыл бұрын

you can still get them for 5-10$

@ColeDedhand 2 жыл бұрын

FAL or G3? Yes.

@BNatoAk 2 жыл бұрын

Great video Misha! Your channel is quality, I don't need the high end glitz. Knowledge is everything 💯

@hotsauce1646 8 ай бұрын

Oooh nice collection . The FAL brings back memories .

@Doublezzranch 2 жыл бұрын

History of theses is such an interesting story. Owned both and can't stand the question : which one do you like more? LMAO. GREAT VIDEO, very much enjoyed this.

@nikitaananjevas1614 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for great vid. As a person who was using both in field conditions I respect both systems. However, accuracy being similar FN is more ergonomical and, most important, extremely easy to field strip and reassemble. G3 is just pain in the ass when assembling in low light conditions. You could get used to it but it is much more complicated. Accuracy of both are the same - mine were capable of about 1,5-2MOA at 100 meters with irons

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your valuable 1st hand feedback.

@andrewpinheiro7202 4 ай бұрын

I love both ! Awesome rifles and video man.

@garetz2011 2 жыл бұрын

I noted just e few weeks ago that the trigger system from the H&K guns was inspired on the FAL. The StG45 used the Browning system used on all other rifles (trigger/sear and a contersear).

@mateoocampo3165 2 жыл бұрын

Some people call the FN-FAL "the elephant gun" because there is a clip floating around KZfaq of an elephant poacher firing a full mag in full auto from his FAL into the side of an elephant at very close range and the elephant drops dead

@SEAKPhotog 2 жыл бұрын

Terrific info. Thank you!

@ElTejon47901 2 жыл бұрын

I had a HK 91 that I bought in junior high when the DM crashed, maybe 83 IIRC? I traded it a few years ago for a Colt M6940, M6960, and ammo.

@gilbertvera1678 Ай бұрын

Should of title the video "left vs right" hand of the free world. Amazing video :)

@Old_8_gauge 11 ай бұрын

I bought a CETME years ago. Economy move. Have fired hundreds of rounds, only complaint is the sights.

@jasonarmstrong5750 2 жыл бұрын

I always preferred the FAL with its lower recoil

@comentedonakeyboard 2 жыл бұрын

I had a 40year old G3 in the Bundeswehr. And it worked just fine. So i guess wear is not much of an Issue (proper Care provided).

@comentedonakeyboard 2 жыл бұрын

PS: if you have Problems with Bolt Disassembly you can use the Strap to get a better Grip (perhaps dont squeze the Rolers).

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

Based on what you observed, could you estimate roughly how many rounds fired through it over its lifetime?

@comentedonakeyboard 2 жыл бұрын

@@misha5670 unfortunately no. All i can tell is that it was made in 1960 and showed some wear (the bolt was realy hard to disassemble). Rumor, however, had it that all our guns were earmarked for scraping (would make sense to let a bunch of conscripts practice with).

@Lutz101 2 жыл бұрын

G3 is soft shooting, more so than the FAL in my experience. You just need to keep oil off the buffer in the buttstock. The friction buffer needs to be dry or it won't work as designed. If you store it upright oil can migrate to the buffer. Keeping it dry makes a BIG difference.

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

So what I am reading is you don't like your butt plugs lubed.

@nedanschutz 2 жыл бұрын

I also like the fal overall. It is balanced in feeling and my 21 inch I really shot well. Not just pretty well but shockingly well. I have a ptr kr32 in 7.62x39 that is I also can shoot to good effect, seems I have to really bear down and concentrate more than with the fal. The cetme/HK design is much heavier in the front and off balance, if you follow. Decidedly different designs both can be very effective in combat. If I had a choice I think I would take the fal overall. Great video. Politics played a lot in both platforms and maybe always does in combat equipment, just never tied it together as you explored it so well. Thanks.

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

If you are ever able, try firing an FAL with a 18" barrel. Accuracy is still solid and it balances even better.

@nedanschutz 2 жыл бұрын

Maybe I will have a chance one day.

@daviddixon9598 Жыл бұрын

I'm a FAL man to the bone, I've built at least 20. But, I have a line on an HK-91 and a SAR-3 .

@jdl9679 2 жыл бұрын

That stg44 steel insert on the stock is bothering me would of been cool if it was an all matching color

@danh5397 2 жыл бұрын

I really want to get one of those Congo para Model FALs wish I would have bought one a while back hard to find now

@servicerifle16 2 жыл бұрын

Heh, Misha puts out a FAL/G3 vid right after I fitted a new handguard to my PTR91.

@robertpatter5509 2 жыл бұрын

Wasn't the FAL called the G1? I was the owner of Ptr 91 Owners and Admirers on FB. That got shut down by Zuc for no reason. Had that group for years. Such a shame too

@edwarddeleon975 2 жыл бұрын

G3 is nice but I got a real fnfal paratrooper and love it also l1a1 metric built was fun and nice to shoot I might get a G3 one day thanks for sharing this video really enjoyed it

@jessemcmaugh7013 2 жыл бұрын

When will you be accepting pre-orders for your reference book series? Inquiring minds want to know hahaha

@orion2250 2 жыл бұрын

Good luck finding mags for the FAL. a bazillion NOS and surplus mags for ptr91/g3..FAL….not so much

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

But at one time, FAL mags were everywhere for $5 while HK mags were $50. Such are the mysterious ways of milsurp items.

@orion2250 2 жыл бұрын

@@misha5670 DSA shipped 1 poly mag with the rifle,ime having trouble finding any surplus. Going to order some poly mags from DSA I think .LOL..at a local gun show today, a gentleman had a stack of G3 surplus mags ..stack..5 for about 50 bucks... Crickets on the FAL. My thoughts are..I love my FAL..but i cant feed it..Ill go where the mags are and PTR 91

@dannbrauckmann1545 2 жыл бұрын

@@orion2250 The DSA poly mags are CRAP. Trust me on this. The feed lips literally will not even retain the rounds.

@wyatt79m 2 жыл бұрын

Great video 👍

@Detective.John.Kimble 2 жыл бұрын

For military applications I think the G3 is a better platform. Once set up, it is cheaper for a country, and quicker, to produce the g3 platform. The accuracy difference is very slight, depending on the shooter, and the recoil is lighter (imo) for the average conscript or solider, leaning towards the g3. Although the Fal is more ergonomic, the g3 provides a better solution for a country to mass produce.

@nunyabidniz2868 2 жыл бұрын

What the world needs now [besides love, sweet love!] is for someone to come up with a semi-auto trigger pack for the CETME that includes a LRBHO! That is the biggest shortcoming of the CETME/G3 platform...

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

The issue is you really need mags built to activate a BHO too. So most likely it would need special mags to work.

@Dawgust420 2 жыл бұрын

I want a G3 pattern rifle, but I really badly want paddle mag release. What do you think my best option is? I’ve heard the PTR isn’t great in this platform, the guy I buy from hates Cetme and he says hk 91 is my only option. Honestly the only requirement for me is I want a paddle mag release or the ability to add it. Please let me know what you think, I appreciate your hard work. It’s not a platform I’m looking to sink a bunch of money into but I’m willing to put down some cash preferably like 1k - 2.5k

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

HK91 costs $3.5k+ and does not come with the flapper mag release. I suggest you ask actual PTR owners how they like thier rifles before disreguarding that one (as a shooter).

@ThunderBunny10mm 2 жыл бұрын

I am a PTR-91 owner and shot about 300 rounds since buying my rifle last month after much research and I love it. I shot an actual HK G3 and didn’t notice a difference as far as performance compared to my PTR.

@ThunderBunny10mm 2 жыл бұрын

And the paddle magazine release is great. I am used to Kalashnikov pattern rifles so I felt at home with its paddle release.

@OutsideTheTargetDemographic 2 жыл бұрын

CETME owner, maybe 100rds through it, second owner. It dings the brass, and sends the brass into the next zip code, but I love it. Soft shooter for a high powered round. Just out a scope on it over the winter, zeroing to follow once the weather improves.

@grapeshot23 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome video as always amigo. What do you think of the durability of the polymer on the L1A1? Also, what do you think of railed top covers of the FAL with regard to holding zero?

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

I'd say the polymer on the L1A1 is remarkably durable, especially for something from the '60s. A lot of synthetic stuff from that era hasn't held up so well by today.

@garyhar5277 2 жыл бұрын

I have a DSA Railed top cover. Holds zero with no issues.

@Militaryarmschannel 2 жыл бұрын

The FAL is the winner here. It seems the FAL vs. G3 argument is much like the 9mm vs. 45 ACP argument, both sides are dug in.

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

And that there is a clear 'right' answer.

@DJJAW11 2 жыл бұрын

Can you not make the G3 ,somehow shoot softer?.

@ThunderBunny10mm 2 жыл бұрын

There are ways to make the G3 feel very smooth. I have a PTR-91 (HK-91 clone) and I swapped the buffer with an enhanced buffer which reduced felt recoil and swapped the flash hider with a muzzle break. My rifle feels more like a 5.56 versus a 308. Paid about 200$ for the parts but worth every cent. Hope this helps.

@DJJAW11 2 жыл бұрын

@@ThunderBunny10mm ... I thought as much Thunderbunny210, Im in the UK, but i do think these things out :)

@Hamzat22 2 жыл бұрын

Great video. Just one point. The German "z" is "ts" when spoken So 8 mm Kurz is Kurts:)

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, yes I know. But well, Germans pronounce many English words their way, only seems fitting that we do the same lol. I was working on some videos for the Panzer tank series, and i tend to drift in between saying 'Pan-zer' and 'Pan-tser'. Just human brains at work there.

@Hamzat22 2 жыл бұрын

@@misha5670 yeah, you are right, in panzer the z is more "hard". Still i am amazed on how many great firearms you have. Keep it up and best wishes for the future!

@brucemiller8109 2 жыл бұрын

I Own both, both fine rifles. As to which is better, its like saying do you love your Son or Daughter....Please dont put me in that environment to choose.

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

Easy, i love my cat Peanut the most.

@Mainelymerch 2 жыл бұрын

Happy to see this from you as a big G3 fan myself.

@cercaz 2 жыл бұрын

Whatever can be said about either beats the shit that was the M14

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

Maybe I'll do a video comparing M14 and FAL. It'll take 5 minutes hehe.

@RPGGunman 2 жыл бұрын

I disagree. The M14 was bad as a frontline assault rifle like in Vietnam. But it's become useful today as a DMR and sniper system that the SEALs and other specialized Marine units use them in support roles. The fact they are still in use to this day in our military shows just under rated they are. If they were really irrelevant and bad they wouldn't be used at all.

@RPGGunman 2 жыл бұрын

@P. Cameron You're saying the Navy SEALs are only using the M14 because of lack of funding? They get the all the funding they want/need because they are the best of the best and given missions you wouldn't send Army or other combat units for such as the raid on the OBL compound. You don't give your most elite combat units substandard or passable equipment to get the job done. The platform's accuracy is one of the reasons it is still being used.

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

@P. Cameron The US has used the M14 in the 21st century because there was an immediate need and rifles were just setting there, free for the taking. Its a make-due weapon. Any success it has had should be attributed to the soldier's skill, not the specs of the rifle.

@RPGGunman 2 жыл бұрын

@P. Cameron I'm not saying the G3 is a bad rifle either. But there are very good reasons the M14 is still being used and updated until this day. I don't believe it has to do with units and their lack of budget.

@chrischiampo7647 2 жыл бұрын

I Hear Your Kitty Meowing In The Background 😀 Really Nice CETME Rifle And L1A1 Misha There All Cool I Like The HK G3A4 Rifle 🔥🔥🔥😀🔥🔥🔥

@nicholasmcgarvey1378 Жыл бұрын

fluted chamber of the CETME not conducive for reloading eh?

@CharlesRushing-ck2qm Жыл бұрын

NO they are not. The fluted chamber mangles brass. I haven't tried steel case but I'm going to

@johncaccamo 11 ай бұрын

Tldr version. FAL less accurate, more prone to jams, uncontrollable on full auto, and more expensive to produce, but with better ergonomics. Otherwise, they are about the same

@pearljaime2 2 жыл бұрын

Parafal for me

@nicholasmcgarvey1378 Жыл бұрын

seems like US over corrected.. went too powerful with 7.62x51 then too small with 5.56, .280 British would have been better from the beginning. I've never seen .280 british but seems like a nifty round

@JB-pb9xv Жыл бұрын

Nobody minds when you "ramble on" about the history of a gun, I pretty much watch your videos just to "listen to you ramble" about firearm history.. _Like allot of us do_ lol..

@SS-tr5ru 2 жыл бұрын

Just drop the entire bolt group of the g3 into a sonic cleaner and boom done

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

Except, battlefields seldom have those handy ;p

@SS-tr5ru 2 жыл бұрын

@@misha5670 hahaha my battlefield is my house That being said Africa is full of beaten and rusted g3s and they’re still running. Not to mention more European nations use the g3 than the fal now. The fal is almost entirely used in South America still. More highly trained militaries are using the g3

@yeedbottomtext7563 2 жыл бұрын

The NGSW result disappoints me

@eclectic3618 2 жыл бұрын

CETME C308 Sporter I miss mine Owed some Taxes, guy offered me $1200 and I Paid $600 so I let it go. I regret not selling him one of my children instead lol jk. But I miss that Rifle alot.

@shawnoandrew 2 жыл бұрын

Sell me the STG44.

@thedumbguncollector5546 2 жыл бұрын

Grabbing popcorn

@mikealvarez8250 2 жыл бұрын

The G3 is far from being perfect, is a cumbersome, heavy, ergonomically difficult to handle and is quite frankly a bad rifle. Any experienced soldier would pick the FAL any day over the G3.

@SS-tr5ru 2 жыл бұрын

I much much prefer the g3

@thedumbguncollector5546 2 жыл бұрын

The FNis gorgeous but the G3 is THE doomsday battle rifle.

@SS-tr5ru 2 жыл бұрын

@@thedumbguncollector5546 exactly. Not to mention more higher trained European militaries are still using the g3 and the fal is pretty much relegated to South America at this point. I’d argue the g3 has proven itself to be superior on this aspect alone. Sweden Norway Finland and Germany still have quite a few g3s and Iceland still has theirs as standard issue.

@thedumbguncollector5546 2 жыл бұрын

@@SS-tr5ru agree. Plus, the G3 can be fairly easily made quite modern with a Spuhr Kit (stock, rail, optics mount).

@SS-tr5ru 2 жыл бұрын

@@thedumbguncollector5546 yup and the g3 has proven to be on average more accurate than the fal

@mattmorrison9379 2 жыл бұрын

There all beautiful but that fn49 is the bees knees. One day I will acquire another.

@kboss7244 2 жыл бұрын

very long video ...... please make sort videos .........THANKS

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

Sorry, can't do that. Just last week a Vietnam Vet made me promise not to change and keep on with how I do things. I can't break a promise to someone who served.

@brianwilhelm37 2 жыл бұрын

I too love them both. I'm a HUGE HK fan and Germanophile but I have to be honest. The HK is a GREAT rifle but, as good as it is, the FAL IS the better rifle.

@jetskechers5354 2 жыл бұрын

Lol

@Lutz101 2 жыл бұрын

All too heavy and overly powerful for use as a service rifle, so only suited to DMR use. Much prefer an AKM, AUG or M4 for use as a combat rifle. Using a 7.62x51mm chambered G3 or FAL as a service rifle is like using a Glock 21 as a service pistol - kinda stupid IMO. Less is more in this case.

@misha5670 2 жыл бұрын

Kep in mind, for most militaries, these rifles were replacing bolt-action rifles. Back in the 1950s, they were still a bit reluctant to give up long-range accuracy, even if studies were already showing it wasn't useful 99% of the time. A similar situation occurred back in the late 19th and early 20th centuries when militaries didn't want to get rid of their 30"+ long barrels, even though smokeless powder really didn't require that much length to deliver good performance. Militaries often get stuck hard in tradition.