Sometimes it's best to loosen all the screws on the frame, both the middle rail (balance rail) and the front rail. Some pianos even have screws in the back rail that need to be loosened in order to comfortably lift up the balance rail and insert card stock. In so glad you found this helpful!

Thanks @David Larson

Excellent, let me know how it goes!

You might need to remove more screws on the front rail also to easily pull up on the balance rail.

@@saltlakepianoservice Can't thank you enough for the video. Worked like a champ without affecting let off or front rail key dip. Wound up 18mm on the nose. Here's another problem though. I wanted to tighten up the flange screws and the right action bracket was stuck. Really stuck. Couldnt budge it. The others were free. Didn't want to force and break it. How would you tackle that? C5 is clicking.

@@culuscha934 If I understand, you couldn't pull the action because the bracket was so tight between the keybed mount and the bolt... I would usually get some type of non-destructive lever and pry /hit it to get it off. But you can also usually adjust the tightness from the bottom, there's often an adjustment nut. If you remove several keys you can access that with a wrench and turn down the bottom mount until it's loose, then readjust to an appropriate tightness when you put the action back in. I can't remember on Kawais what it looks like.

It's very rare that just one or two keys will decide to start bobbing. It's usually the result of the whole area of the piano being affected due to playing and wood conditioning. You can think of shimming the rail as a punching to raise a section of keys instead of just one key, so it is possible to correct only the regions of the piano that need it. Often the whole keyboard needs some but the middle sags more. If you raise the keys too high, you can have hammers blocking against the strings because of too much key dip. So, you have to make the call whether it's best to just add a few punchings under some keys or raise the whole rail. Leveling all the keys and setting key dip after takes a lot more time and tools on hand than this quick fix which equals more money the customer has to pay. Usually if there's bobbling, one business card width won't give you any problems and is the way to go.

@@saltlakepianoservice Thanks so much for your reply. Would you ever only shim the area where the bobbling occurs, like in the middle, or do you always need to shim equally under each screw?

@@kirkearl You don't have to put a shim everywhere. It's all about raising the keys and creating more key travel. Wherever you need that you can shim. The shims don't have to be equal.

What area are you in?

@@saltlakepianoservice the other side of the world...in the Arabian desert 😃

Thanks for your comments! You are right on with what you are saying. This video is meant to be a quick fix for the layman. For more detailed information on regulation and so forth, check out some of my other content on prepping a Steinway Grand or the day regulation on the Yamaha grand. I also plan on continuing to discuss how the the upright action works and how to adjust it in future videos. Thanks again for these comments as I'm sure it will help someone if their checking is too close after this procedure. The trouble with working with newer pianos that are settling is that it is a moving target as settling in the piano continues. I find that loading them up with excessive aftertouch often is necessary to keep things working without multiple visits.

Yes, this could definitely apply to a new Yamaha piano. Usually it shows up within the first year or so at some point. The first test song is a Chopin etude in E major. Op. 10 no. 3

No, that's more likely a finger bobble from my playing! Also, you'll notice that when hammers are played at the softest dynamics in upright and grand pianos, they don't always get caught by the backcheck, so the hammer might bounce a little, but as long as it doesn't hit the string more than once it's okay, but that's a different issue then I was addressing here. Thanks for your feedback and careful watching!

@@saltlakepianoservice Ok! Because I can clearly hear a double striking sound on the string, thats why it got my attention about the bobble. Looking forward to your next videos.

Yes, the screws punch a hole in the card, but you can also put them right next to the screw, as long as there are enough cards distributed evenly across the rail.

Check the strength of the repetition spring (weakening it slightly can help sometimes. Also check whether the key travel is too shallow.

Yes, that's the way to level keys, no question. This video highlights a make it work scenario. In a make it perfect scenario you would also level the keys and adjust everything else in the action so it works well.

Yes, you can add punchings to the balance rail to increase the key dip, or take out punchings from the front rail. Working on individual notes like that takes at least 1-2 hrs more. In the case of this piano, I think it still would not have been enough adjustment because of the settling. This solution is in my mind the wisest path saving the customer money. I would have had to add about 0.040" punchings to the balance pin to achieve the same result which is not advisable.

@@saltlakepianoservice cheers!(also for the video!) I haven’t seen this as a solution to bobbling hammers before.

Raising the balance rail is a quick solution, but may I add something else? I noticed that the balance rail has no paper punchings. In this situation, unless you’re really pressed for time, I’d add paper punchings. Contrary to your experience, (1-2 hours) it takes me less than 30 minutes to add a set amount of punchings on the BR, so only a little more time than simply raising the BR. Why do this? A piano should have a cardboard and at least one paper punching under each BR cloth punching. In the future, when you go to level keys and need to lower a key, if there are no paper punchings you will have to either change out the cloth punching to a thinner size, or do something else, like compress the cloth punching, sand the key, etc. which I do not recommend. So, having something more under the key than just one cloth punching will not allow you to “make change”. ($ coin reference) While I wholeheartedly like your video (Very thorough!) I think viewers should consider the long term advantage of adding paper punchings when there are none. Adding a set amount (say a thin cardboard and a blue paper) won’t cause you to need to totally redo dip, and it’s worth the effort.

It needs to be thick like a business card or similar card stock. I think drawing paper might be too thin or weak. This process raises the key height and increases the amount the keys go down proportionate to how thick the card is. I think the card stock needs to be at least 0.020-0.025" thick.

Right. Even without reading the serial # you can see clearly the colour of the cloth on the top and piano action brackets. Japanese newish pianos don’t have the “babbling” problem. Indonesians do.

Good idea. I will do that. Thanks for the feedback.

Is there a certain kind of piano you have in mind with this? I have some footage already that is in the edit queue. Stay tuned!

A Brodmann, grand piano. A few keys made a squeaky noise when played. The notes sound out, in addition to a squeaky noise.

Good questions! I'd be happy to walk you through your specific repairs via Google Meet video call if you'd like. Email us at Saltlakepianoservice@gmail.com to schedule a call.

You can get the sustain rod tips from Yamaha or whatever piano it is. supply house.

There must be something else going on with your piano. I'd be happy to do a video call consult if you would like.

@@saltlakepianoservice My post was a little bitter because I had great expectation that this would fix so many keys doing the same thing. I did what you do on the video, even tried several thicknesses but it never helped. If I press on the keys (near the mechanism), it does this bobbling stuff even more, so I thought that it would help. Yes there should be something else and I'll probably have a pro come and see the piano. By the way, very nice Chopin and Liszt performance.