GETTING THE MOST PERFORMANCE OUT OF YOUR COMET TORQUE CONVERTER CLONE

  Рет қаралды 36,712

What Is The Wheel

What Is The Wheel

2 жыл бұрын

Comet torque converter(TC) clones are cheap on Ebay and we are lured by the low, low price. I wanted to try for Comet performance at the Clone price, but you have to spend money to be broke. The big issue for the Clone is the springs in it are not a known value, we don't know at what rpm they make the clutch engage, we don't know how they respond to belt tension to increase the gear ratio. So I put genuine Comet springs in my clone.
I have noticed nearly everyone discusses the torsion spring, that is the one in the driven pulley. It is the easy one to adjust because you can just change the hole the spring sits in. The problem is that people are adjusting this spring to make the Kart(or minibike) faster. That is not the purpose of this spring. This spring controls the rate of gear ratio increase and decrease. These torque converters are also CVTs, continuously variable transmissions. They have a gear range from 3:1 to 1:1(It varies but this is the average), starting in the low gear and increasing as the engine rpm increases. You can adjust this spring to make the TC increase and decrease the change in ratio faster or slower. If you have a play kart that sees a lot of mixed riding on trails, you want it to change gears up slower and drop gears faster. If you are drag racing, you want to torque converter to increase gear as fast as the engine can handle it. If the kart has less power you may still need a slower gear ratio increase because the engine can't take the load otherwise. If you have a powerful machine, you only need the low gear to get off the line, then increase as fast as possible to get to the highest speed as fast as possible.
Talked about less often but just as important are the springs in the driving pulley. These are the springs that engage the clutch and you can change them, and the weights, to get engagement at the rpm that works best for you. Completely stock Kart? You probably need engagement at 2000-2500 rpm. Drag motor that spins 9000 rpm, has a huge cam, and doesn't make power til 4000 rpm? You need a spring that engages around 3800-4200 rpm. Between springs and weights, you can set the driving pulley/clutch up to suit your needs. NOTE: If you have a big block(420) or a MONSTER motor, the Comet 30(real or clone) is not the one to use. You are going to need a beefier TC like the Comet 500 or 700 series.

Пікірлер: 93
@charlesgraham9954
@charlesgraham9954 8 күн бұрын
went from a few hundred dollars to well over 2 grand, but i have to say it is fun building these lil engines. its shocking what a lil 212 will do blownout.
@mlindsay527
@mlindsay527 4 ай бұрын
I used a bench vice clamped slightly off center so I could get the snap ring on. Went through a bunch of changes while tuning, got pretty good at it. You can also zip tie the brake and do it on the bike. Seemed to be an almost mute point when I went to the Juggernaut. It just works.
@jeremyoshea7941
@jeremyoshea7941 Ай бұрын
Love you sense of humor!
@averyblanton301
@averyblanton301 Жыл бұрын
I watched Red Beards Garage on Predator 212 belt breaking fix Neighbor freaked out. He had the spring chart to show the engagement for the different color springs. Appreciate the information on these secondary part of these CVT drives, the instructional videos you all produce really help those of us that are just getting started on messing with these things. I'm 52 year's old and done found a hobby I guess you could say. Lol. Done built me a mega Moto 212 with a pro tune tillotson, runs out at 45mph with stock CVT clutch drive. Gonna build me a hot rod bike next just for the fun of it.
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
Oh yeah. I am 56 and just started last year working on the kart. I had to take a break from YT because of work, but I plan to finish this kart then build a bigblock drag mini bike
@Sussy-hotdog
@Sussy-hotdog 2 жыл бұрын
So this really helped me out, thank you! I needed to tune my Kart build for off-road performance. Predator 212 Stage 1 kit (about 9 hp). I took the existing red spring and moved it from center to forward stiff for longer duration Torque. I added a front Juggernaut drive pulley, since I have governor removed and ability for higher rpm to engage. Those two combinations, along with a 60 tooth axel sprocket, give me great torque on off road terrain and plenty of speed. On a personal note......I see too many KZfaq videos where everyone is obsessed with more speed, and not enough on establishing that perfect balance of speed and low end power. This off road Go-Kart is for my kids, and I don't want them going over 35 mph. That's plenty fast enough.
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
That is great to hear. I had an issue with the clone at high rpm and ended up using the Torq-Zilla, OMB warehouse version of the Juggernaut, it is the trick for high rpm. If you check the play list there is a start video where the 30 converter loses a belt and I have another with the Zilla. A lot of guys are putting a lot on the top speed, when what makes the fun is how well it runs everywhere else.
@craigcoghlan546
@craigcoghlan546 Жыл бұрын
Loved the video mate ,loved the genuine honesty keep up the good work , love your style
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
Thanks, I appreciate that
@olsonspeed
@olsonspeed 7 ай бұрын
Thanks for to DIY video, lots of special knowledge setting up a torque converter, you gave us the recipe for the secret sauce.
@KentuckyFriedFixes
@KentuckyFriedFixes 2 жыл бұрын
Great tip on the Comet springs! I bought one of the Chinese Comet clones and was wondering if the Comet springs would fit. Now I can order some decent springs worry free. I saw a guy struggle with a Jr Drag driven spring change once at the track, and it was said he was supposedly good at it. Then I saw another guy change one quickly with a compressor tool he made from a spare tire holder he got out of his trunk. Personally, I'm dreading it. Thanks man! Great stuff!
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks. I need to pop the weights off and weigh them to see how close they are to the Comet, but they should be close(just based on size), so the Comet specs should be close or at least consistent. That heavy yellow spring was TOUGH. I had already pulled it apart and put it back together with red spring and thought I would have no trouble. I was wrong. The gadget I made worked pretty good. If I did it a bunch, I would make a keyed holder for the flat plate and use a longer screw to pull the beveled plate down.
@Deucealive75
@Deucealive75 2 жыл бұрын
It's not that bad. I'm weaker than I was 30 years ago and I can set the yellow spring in the tightest hole. In my testing I even over "clocked" the yellow spring. That took everything I had.
@KentuckyFriedFixes
@KentuckyFriedFixes 2 жыл бұрын
@@Deucealive75 I'm still dreading it. LOL!
@jeremyoshea7941
@jeremyoshea7941 Жыл бұрын
Love your sense of humor! I just did the same with our first kart
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoy the videos.
@BustedKnucklesBuildsTexas
@BustedKnucklesBuildsTexas Жыл бұрын
Great video , they can be fun to take apart and put back together !
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
Oh yeah. I had to pull the side cover off due to a leak and found a bunch of metal in the case, so it is coming apart to see what is going on(Looks like the big end bearing)
@BustedKnucklesBuildsTexas
@BustedKnucklesBuildsTexas Жыл бұрын
@@WhatIsTheWheel that’s not good !?!?
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
@@BustedKnucklesBuildsTexas Pretty annoying, but maybe I will put a lighter piston in while it is apart. Probably my fault I was likely overreving the motor.
@kennyh5083
@kennyh5083 3 ай бұрын
When the Comet is over $200 and the clone is under $50 I'll just buy a few clones thank you!
@joer5057
@joer5057 3 ай бұрын
Lol, this. I cut one of mine down since the riser plates won't work with my frame. Slapped it on a 3/4 shaft 196 with a lugnut. Then, I swapped in a 223 and needed the keyed washer and center bolt for the internal threaded shaft, so I just bought a whole new kit, just for those parts. 😅
@highwaymen1237
@highwaymen1237 4 ай бұрын
Very good information!
@derpydog1008
@derpydog1008 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for the info I know what to look into if my clone torque converter does weird things when I try it out.
@nathanlupus7759
@nathanlupus7759 Жыл бұрын
one thing to change. the clutch is 20ft lbs and the bolt that comes with the kit for a predator 212 needs to be thrown in the trash. they need a 5/16-24 fine thread bolt that's about 1/2-1" longer and to add a washer and lock nut to the bolt with blue lock tite. Lots of people ruin their engines using those cheap bolts that arent long enough with these kits. Was first thing I learned on my journey.
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
Oh yeah, all the supplied hardware got tossed in the spares bin.
@robinward3003
@robinward3003 2 жыл бұрын
When you wound the idler spring on, you turned it 1/2 a turn too much. It should only be turned about a 1/4 turn to engage the flats. Will be easier to get spring clip on, too.
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment. I went back to the raw video to get a better look at what I did. The hub has three ramps and the base has three sets of pads. When I installed the hub, with no spring tension, it was to the left of one of the sets of pads. I turned it just far enough to move it to the next set of pads. The only way it could have less preload would be no preload at all.
@RogerBruneau
@RogerBruneau 2 ай бұрын
Good. Job. !
@jamesa6272
@jamesa6272 3 ай бұрын
I’ve been watching videos where they had 1 and 3 reversed than. I tried the hole to the right and it was weaker than the second. Now I have to try the hole to the left from this video
@deangiacopassi1951
@deangiacopassi1951 2 жыл бұрын
Good explination of how and why. The can of Kroil in the background gives you streat cred, too many people use WD40 for everything. I feel you pain. I bought a lightly used but old kart frame for $400. After a half season of racing I have spent $7,000 to run last place in class. A good thing I am having fun.
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
$7000? WOW! Are you racing vintage? Those motors can be pretty pricey. I got the Kroil for a stuck swingarm pivot on an XR650R I was building in to a supermoto. I wish I had shot that whole process.
@deangiacopassi1951
@deangiacopassi1951 2 жыл бұрын
@@WhatIsTheWheel Engine $600, Clutch $400, Driver and gears $125, Data logger $650, 3 Sets of tires & wheels $750, Safety equipment $1000, Speciality tools $300, Hardware $500...
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
@@deangiacopassi1951 I don't even want to consider the cost of racing a kart, it would be cheaper to do the 24 Hours of Lemons or Gambler 500.
@philliphall5198
@philliphall5198 Жыл бұрын
Only thing WD 40 is good for is starting a Diesel engine
@ArthronOfFir3
@ArthronOfFir3 Жыл бұрын
Hey I'm working on a motorized bicycle (79cc predator with belt drive setup with CVT) and I'm wondering what's the best combination of springs and weights would I use (output of the CVT is using a 4" pulley on a 16" sheave that connects to a 26" wheel)
@michaelcrone2709
@michaelcrone2709 Жыл бұрын
I liked your vedio and the way you did it Thanks
@TheKiddOnDrums
@TheKiddOnDrums 8 ай бұрын
Man your opening statement is dead on except for my mini bike lol
@shrugger1
@shrugger1 Жыл бұрын
Informative video. Something to note, the genuine Comet driver and driven have much better slope angles. It can be seen side by next to the Chinese [expletive]. It wouldn't be accurate to say it adds HP, rather it frees up about 1/2HP out to the drive axle. Which will increase top speed 1-2mph.
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
I think the extra power would only give you a higher top speed if it let the motor reach a higher rpm(or the clutch was not reaching the top "gear" position). If the motor is spinning 6000 rpm and the pulley has moved to its highest "gear" position, it does not matter what springs are in the clutch, the top speed will be the same. The only way to increase the top speed is to spin the motor faster or change the gearing.
@drewnewcomb2909
@drewnewcomb2909 8 ай бұрын
Where did you get your torque converter cover/guard if you don't mind me asking? Or did you make it? Great video.
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 8 ай бұрын
Thanks, I made the guard. I am going to have to do a version II because it vibrates to much
@greghaig2764
@greghaig2764 Жыл бұрын
Is this a 20 series or a 30 series aí have a rupp mini bike and they come with A 20 series I need a driver or can I put the driven on the jack shaft
@phoenixlair9084
@phoenixlair9084 Жыл бұрын
What type of cover is that?
@Deucealive75
@Deucealive75 2 жыл бұрын
I use a 2 1/2" bolt with a flat washer and a lock washer with loctite 242 torqued to the Comet spec of 20 ft/lbs. The main performance issue with the stock 30 series is that the belt shifts too early and kills engine power. The gearing change is too fast and too dramatic. With the belt shift you are going from appx 2.68/1 to .9/1 which is OD. This is usually the case with less than ideal gearing. I've seen plenty of questions in mini bike forums over the years on this subject. The common question is "I have a 7500 RPM engine that will not get more than 4500 RPM with a torque converter". This is because their potent engines still can't handle the load once the belt shifts. The answer there was TAV springs and gearing. Now a days the answer is the Juggernaut or tork zilla drivers. With these new drivers the belt shift doesn't come on too soon and the gearing change is less dramatic. You never see OD or even 1/1 gearing with those drivers. I disagree with your comment about drag racing. If I were drag racing I wouldn't want the belt shift early. I would want the shift to occur as late as possible in a higher RPM range where the power is. Even on my not so potent 196 on a mini bike it performs the best 0-30 mph with the yellow spring in the tightest hole with the belt shifting at 4300 RPM under full throttle. With the early belt shift provided by the light tension green spring, my bike was a dog when the belt shifted at 3700 RPM. Engagement on my stock China driver is around 2700 RPM.
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the comment. My thinking with the belt shifting to the highest ratio as fast as possible was that you would use high rpm garter springs and be in the meat of the torque curve when the belt started to shift. Just like with cars and motorcycles, it is a matter of trying stuff, trying to figure out what is happening, then making changes to improve the performance. I was watching another build channel and the guy was racing a mini bike. He had a treaded tire and kept rolling through the burnout box, but did not realize why he was having poor launches. One of the line workers told him to go around, and it made a big difference in his time. You have to step back and look at what is going on, figure out the problem, then try to fix it. This kart is just for fun, I never had one as a kid, so I wanted to build one before I get to crippled up to sit in it. Next time might be a big block mini bike, and that would be a project to take to the strip and try stuff to make it faster.
@Deucealive75
@Deucealive75 2 жыл бұрын
@@WhatIsTheWheel Yes. Changing to heavier garter springs may be the ticket there. And not necessarily for drag racing, but just better TAV performance. Like you say, it's a matter of trying different things out until you find what works for your type of riding.
@HaveGunWillTravel15285
@HaveGunWillTravel15285 8 ай бұрын
Video with foward &reverse on the comet torgue converter for club car
@nickclashez
@nickclashez 2 жыл бұрын
Good stuff
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks, I appreciate that
@jeremyoshea7941
@jeremyoshea7941 Ай бұрын
Thank you for your time…………. A huge difference as well. Are the cheap bills compared to the comet belt. The cheaper belts are gonna leave rubber on the clutch which is gonna screw up the way your belt rides on the clutch. It’s a terrible ride. Spend the extra few bucks and get a good belt from Powersports well worth it and the juggernaut I would advise to get the real juggernaut, huge difference
@philliphall5198
@philliphall5198 Жыл бұрын
As they say you get what you pay for and you may get hurt or may hurt a kid Safety First Period
@dnafpv
@dnafpv Жыл бұрын
My drive pulley clutches aren’t working at all. My mini bike rides fine just that drive pulley clutch never expands at any rpm? Could I just be too heavy?
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
It moves but the pulley does not expand? That is odd because that movement is also the clutch. If the motor revs up, something is going on in the clutch, it is not your size.
@dnafpv
@dnafpv Жыл бұрын
@@WhatIsTheWheel if I put it on a stand it works perfectly, it expands and engages. If I ride it then it does not ever get enough rpm to expand, I have video of both scenarios. The only difference from when it works is load, when under load it doesn’t let the clutch expand/engage but when on the bench with no load it works as it should.
@shanerogers2835
@shanerogers2835 2 жыл бұрын
I need advice!!!!!! Somebody please help!!!!!!!🙏 I have a Duro-max 18hp 440cc with a 40 series torque converter. My tongue converter is eating belts after only ten minutes of use . What in the flip am I doing wrong??
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
Is your gearing to tall? I remember seeing a video about changing the spring in the driven clutch because it had to a reverse wind for some applications, but I can't find it now.
@shanerogers2835
@shanerogers2835 2 жыл бұрын
@@WhatIsTheWheel IDK this is my first go-kart. Ever at 46 years alive.lol how will I know if my gearing is too tall ? I'm running 18 or 20 inch wheels
@dutch4541
@dutch4541 Жыл бұрын
I'm pretty sure you need a bigger tc. If you're running 40 41 chain it's possible it's not big enough. You might need to make sure your tc is good for 18hp
@georgeprice9882
@georgeprice9882 2 ай бұрын
What is the ratio from the driver to the drivet
@mklein5179
@mklein5179 2 жыл бұрын
Shaudenfreund is my thing! Oh. And mini bikes
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
There is something to the enjoying the misery of others, that is why fail videos are so popular. I may be doing a bigblock mini bike in a future series, if I find a good frame to start with.
@mklein5179
@mklein5179 2 жыл бұрын
@@WhatIsTheWheel that would be awesome! Love your channel bud!! I’ve been wanting a big block.
@Sussy-hotdog
@Sussy-hotdog 2 жыл бұрын
@mklein5179 You're never suppose to admit to that! :)
@Yardstiky
@Yardstiky 7 ай бұрын
You never mentioned if you noticed a difference with the yellow and blue springs.
@jeremyoshea7941
@jeremyoshea7941 Ай бұрын
A lot of channels, see not to use that brass bushing because it’s something that can catch and force the go kart to go forward on its own. I don’t know how much credibility there is to that.
@francoreia8147
@francoreia8147 9 күн бұрын
What if those weights are different in weight
@captainchaos3053
@captainchaos3053 8 ай бұрын
Using the springs from the comet transmission will only open at the given rpm if the weights match the comet weights.
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 8 ай бұрын
The zinc weights that come in the Ebay converter are within a few grams of the Comet weights(which likely have some variation as well). Even if the weights were different the approximate engagements would still apply, that is if you needed to go lower or higher, you would still use the next value spring.
@webjammer1
@webjammer1 Жыл бұрын
Can a torque convert be used on a KT100 2 stroke?
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
I don't think it can. The Comet style clutches fit a 3/4 or 1 inch shaft and I believe the KT100 has a metric shaft dia.
@miguelpagansr6128
@miguelpagansr6128 Жыл бұрын
Are comet parts still available?
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
They are still here. You can get a lot of parts from OMB and you can also go direct to Comet cometclutches.com They make some cool highpower clutches for snowmobiles too.
@ranchero302me
@ranchero302me Жыл бұрын
i have a coleman kts196 it has red spring.
@contraband1543
@contraband1543 2 жыл бұрын
The crank is a 5/16-24 as well.
@contraband1543
@contraband1543 2 жыл бұрын
Also at 14 ft lbs I guarantee it will come loose after about an hour of use. I've had better luck at 25 minimum. Usually I just use a box end wrench and hammer to tighten it on the trail but 14 ft lbs is not enough in my experience
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
I can't remember if I added that with text or not.
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
@@contraband1543 Thanks, I did not see a spec for the bolt so I went by the SAE spec for it. I will probably use blue loctite on it.
@philliphall5198
@philliphall5198 Жыл бұрын
Is it grade 8 ??? Big difference on torque spec and depth
@greghaig2764
@greghaig2764 Жыл бұрын
Is this a 20 series torque converter
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
It is a 30 series.
@BeastOuncelifeian
@BeastOuncelifeian 2 жыл бұрын
Holy shit did he make a spring swap difficult !!!
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel 2 жыл бұрын
I did. I often go through the process of figuring it out without looking to see how it is done, so I can work out the process for myself. I had already taken the pulley apart and put it back together with the red spring with no problem. The yellow spring made it a lot harder.
@BeastOuncelifeian
@BeastOuncelifeian 2 жыл бұрын
@@WhatIsTheWheel you made a TON more work for yourself. Yellow springs ARE stiffer, that's the point of a spring swap in the first place. But they are no where near as hard as you made it. You just need hands and snap ring pliers. Nothing else.
@johnfillmaniii6899
@johnfillmaniii6899 Жыл бұрын
Mine has a bearing instead of a copper bushing?
@WhatIsTheWheel
@WhatIsTheWheel Жыл бұрын
That is interesting. I have only seen the bushing on them.
@johnfillmaniii6899
@johnfillmaniii6899 Жыл бұрын
@@WhatIsTheWheel I feel like the bearing creates less wear. But I'm not a pro. That's why I was checking out your great video. Thanks 😊
@ArthronOfFir3
@ArthronOfFir3 Жыл бұрын
​@@johnfillmaniii6899 from a friend who uses one, they're for longer uses
@prebaned
@prebaned 6 ай бұрын
Nice, i found those Chinese TC are a crap shoot. Bearings fall apart, grip angles and not proper, chew up belts, belts slip due to steel finish etc.. I replaced my comet TC with a Chinese one and it lasted 4 rides. Back to comet. Some have better luck.
@burritosupremejeem
@burritosupremejeem 7 ай бұрын
So it's not just me...
@geraldwillcox
@geraldwillcox 2 жыл бұрын
.. my understanding is you Louise 30% of HP with a CVT
@jacobalan9732
@jacobalan9732 8 ай бұрын
First vowel does the talking, the second dose the walking... Sheaves...
@donovanroudabush401
@donovanroudabush401 7 ай бұрын
😢
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