George Mikan invented the sky hook. Kareem adopted it because of dunking being banned in college.

Jordan did as well with the change in how fouls were called. Curry is a one-faceted player and at that facet he's slightly better than all the other really good 3 pt shooters. He only changed the game because he was allowed to shoot so much by his coaches who also developed an offensive scheme that allowed him to get open enough to be this effective. Ray Allen was in the vicinity in percentage and despite not being able to shoot nearly as much, had the record until 1 or 2 years ago. Look at the guys coming up.....that record will be history in 2 decades.

​@@mrblumpto bad a lot of people won't even know who Mikan was. Even though he legitimately saved basketball and was the first superstar.

@@SDesWriterallen shot less shots. If he shot more his shooting percentage drops. Kerr is t developing no damn offense for Curry you fool, Curry is the freaking offense. Smh. I always know when I’m speaking to someone with a low basketball iq. You’re one of them. Kerr’s offense is nothing more than basic movement and screens. If you knew the game you’d know that much. Popovich has the same offense and he didn’t create any great shooters remotely close to Curry. Curry can get his own shot as well witnessed against Boston the other night. He can catch n shoot, come off screens and pick n roll. You are clueless buddy

@@SDesWriterhe’s an underrated finisher at the rim and he takes mid range jumpers.

True

Kenyon Martin, despite loving to brute force and thug left and right, would very seriously pretend to teach you how it was about the color of the skin and the climate of the country, not about how he was a damn special beast playing in a basketball market like Boston. Like the climate of this podcast when it comes to racism against europeans.

Which is good cause it left you wanting more and not left you wanting to see them retire. People never got to see them playing wack

@@obeyhansolo Bird was on the decline due to his back, thankfully he saw the writing on the wal before it was too late. I must say watching them retire relatively on top of their game made us appreciate them more.

Bird is trash... His team made his name

Gil sneaky like that, like to dance around them questions😅

Steph 4 rings. Arenas 0 rings. What a 🤡

Most of them agreed on a false point, that Magic didn't change the league. That alone makes other points in the conversation sound stupid.

Magic started getting more recognition when people start taking titles into account..

Stephortless 😂😂😂😂 (Kenny voice)

😂 Ankles Curry is a Harlem globetrotter trick shot shooter …. This kid is a defensive liability….

@@blaqraidersteelSteph hasn’t been a defensive liability since 2014 gotta stop using that idiot.

...with 4 rings, leading a 73 win team in the most talented league of all time and only unanimous MVP. things NEVER done in the game. Were at the point where you either salute or youre a hater or dont know BBALL. @@blaqraidersteel

@@lilgloman138 the cavs targeted Steph all 2016. He’s been a defensive liability up until about 2019-ish

How old are you? A.I. didn't change THE GAME he changed THE NBAs dress code

Ai ain’t change anything but dress code dude went to 1 finals and lost

Steph,KI and a few others were inspired by AI with the handles.

@@ValentinoStuart why because YOU said it? Most of you fools weren't even alive during AI days & y'all think he was the first player with a handle.. Tim Hardaway had a nice crossover did he change the game too?

U must be like 17 😅​@@princezay3608

Only the people who *still* called Bird "the great white hope" into the late 1980s thought he was better than Magic. As Bird himself admitted his own personal ranking as below Bill Russell as just a Celtic, because he could never get his teams to even win 2 titles back-to-back, never mind a proper dynasty. In the 1980s through to about 1994, it was literally called heresy to even mention "Me-First MJ" as being the GOAT over Magic. The man who saved the NEW and played the game "the right way." The people who discounted Magic's Lakers dynasty, were also the ones who denied Bird's illegal drafting conspiracy! AND, Bird getting a free pass with his Media pouting/threats to sign as a free agent with the Knicks, for 18 months beforehand, because the *championship* Celtics couldn't make him the highest pair player ever without a special exemption until the next CBA negotiations. Magic was the undisputed GOAT outside of Boston and the majority European-American areas of the southern states. That's why *only* Lakers games were guaranteed to be nationally televised until the 1998 rule changes when Miami got a franchise. After 1998, all broadcasters also had to guarantee live regional games; if they also wanted to show live regular season Lakers games. On top of all that, Magic's Lakers could only play their home games at latest 7pm Eastern Time.

Bird didn't have less help

Finally Someone Said It

I said the same thing lmao 😂

He said if Lebron has trouble with goat conversation then what argument does Steph have.

Oh you must be new here 😂

@@nike9009 lmao. Gil does this for every question

He should do sumn else. Podcasting or reporting is not it

LeBron

Nobody tried to recreate what you’re talking about until the last 5 or so years. If Magic made such a big impact it wouldn’t have taken 30 years for us to see these big teams.

​@@Daveyjdigitalmahic snd brid saved the NBA

@@jamiegaskins3687Sheesh kinda facts. Niggas more so was tryna be like Jordan 6’6 sg

That's simply not true.

LOL. guessing you fav player is curry

And also these clowns are saying old school are slow... because most of them wear chuck Taylor's vs today's shoes

You’re 1000% correct this is hard to explain to most fans. Greatness is the same in every era the aesthetic just looks different because rules and knowledge change with time. But if you were the type to put in the work to be the best in one era you’d likely do the same in any era your play style will just vary

Talk to em

Penny was KOBE before we had KOBE

If klay didn’t get hurt in game 6 against Toronto then Steph would have 5 rings.in any realistic what if scenario Steph’s legacy n potential legacy is still decently more significant. 5 rings ? N he was robbed of a mvp when he lead the bad News warriors w injuries n lost in the playin to the grizzlies.5 rings and 3 mvps he would be recognized as top 3 fasho it’s just perception but Steph done a lot n would be better then any potential version of penny respectfully w skill n accomplishments combined

Bro I like penny but everyone over blows his game. He never averaged more than 21 ppg ever. Like right on bruh

Penny and Grant Hill! They were comparing Grant and Kobe early in their careers. Man, them injuries had a great effect on that Mount Rushmore. If Derek Rose doesn’t get hurt, what was the Bulls going to be, man!

💥

Lol so AI should be on my Rushmore cause he made everybody crossover cut it out that should not be no reason not saying Steph ain’t got a case but making ppl shoot more 3s ain’t it

Is this about "changing" the game or basketball ability? Simple, can you score when on offense and defend when on defense

⁠​⁠@@shawnsmith8335what are u talking about 💀 did u really say Ai made ppl do crossover ur really clueless aren’t u 😂

@@abe.officialsyt5355you gotta be young

how is defense his strength lol

@@jon401 at this point he is as good of an off ball defender as Lebron and actually better at on ball defending. How has gotten much better at defending but that wasn’t the skill I was thinking about in my statement. His weakness on offense was scoring on all three levels, he worked on it and became proficient at all of it as well as improving his handles every year. He got stronger so he could play better defense and hold up better in that part of the game.

your delusional even at this age lebron is a way better defender.. two words lonnie walker......steph singlehandedly got targeted and COOKED and lost a playoff game in clutch minutes that decided the series by a 9th-10th man..His defensive deficiencies alone will forever keep him out of the GOAT debate. @@JayDay32

91” but that’s a valid point

How he watched for 20years before he played? 😂

@@youxtweekn he's sayn Shaq watching b4 &aftr playing combined is 20,ish,probly more by now actually!!

Gr8 po!nt👉🏾🏀👍

He said twenty before but we all know ge meant close to twenty and yeah that’s not even counting the years after he retired

Shaq is a high functioning autistic person.

It ain't like hes James Harden and doesn't try. He makes consistent effort. He just happens to be the smallest player in the top 10. Averages 1.6 steals per game which is on par with Russ and Rondo and Conley. I know steals isn't the be all end all to evaluate defense but like I said, he ain't a traffic cone

@@vict1435 I agree with you on the point that he's no traffic cone. but you messed up when you put him in the same sentence with Rondo bro. With that being said we as a people need to stop listening to ESPN and all these other guys and start thinking for ourselves. Out of all the guys that as ever played this game you really think Step is top ten? I do respect your view point brother. MJ, Kobe, LBJ, Shaq, Duncan, Olajuwon, Kawhi, KD, Kareem, Giannis just to name a few and all this guys are elite on both sides of the ball. Like a said Step is a one man military assault and he's a monster. But he's a little monster and can only hurt you on one side of the ball. Think for yourself and stop buying into their narrative. They do this for content. Much love my guy.

The GoaT equaling who changed the league most, is a bad take.

@@penkima4923 its one of the factors for sure

Well I’m just the comparison of MJ and Magic . MJ didn’t have a teammate close to as good as Former MVp and some ppls goat Kareem. And Magic had Kareem for basically his whole career

It’s crazy but it’s true

Definitely remember that.

Ya he changed the game but you know who else changed the game? Wilt kareem Barkley Shaq kd harden I can go on and on magic and bird literally SAVED the nba, so stfu with that idiotic argument. Dude ain’t even top 10

How he change the GAME?

Magic had Kareem to pass to though. They negate each other a few spots because they are both in top 10. Nobody else on the list played with each other on the same team besides Kobe and Shaq

24pts, 10 reb, 6 ast, for Birds career with 2 NBA MVPs is just good? 😂😂😂😂. Gil needs to stop disrespecting that white dude.

@@conchobar exactly to call him just good is disrespectful Bird was an anomaly a glitch to the system. I am a Magic fan but I know he doesn’t be great without a rival that was great as well.

He's not in my 5. But he is in my top 3 for shit talking. I didn't like bird through his career. But once I head the stuff he was saying then he was Larry legend to me.

@@conchobar3 mvps straight. Took the goat title from Kareem to be technical.

Magic/KD/Pippen/KG/Hakeem That’ll do it

@@b.u.theyll-adjust7623trippin

Magic, Kobe, Bird, KG, Wilt

Wilt, Bird, Kareem, Kobe, KD Gentleman’s sweep

Can’t stop them scoring. Strong defense.

Bird > Magic

@@kylelaforest9919George Floyd> bird

Magic would be Magic regardless

What rule did Barkley change?

@@Hooperd2023 can’t back down for more than 5 seconds.

This changing the rules/games is the Steph fan base trying to get Steph in the conversation because he doesn't get in by other means

What about Dr J? Was it not him MJ mimic alot of his game?

​@@collllllll 😂😂😂.... thats why he change the game.... old style will be trash by how the game is played today....

He also had over 11 assists per game. Anyone who wants a POINT GUARD that averages half of what Magic did is too stupid for words. If you want Curry on your team, you have to find a way to let him play the SG or you have to have someone else (like Draymond) be your point guard who actually runs the offense while Steph runs around in circles to get his shots.

⁠@@SDesWriterWhat you casuals don’t understand is Steph running is his way of playmaking be for real you think non threat Draymond is what starts the warriors offensive just because he has the ball?

That’s not really changing the game 😂😂 marketing ? Stop it .. style of point guard ? Wdym ? He was a pass first guard just like pretty much every other pg that was in the league at the time 😂😂 ? The only thing that made him different was being 6’9 and even then nobody is coping that style of play 😂 the only person who got compared to magic realistically was lebron and Ben Simmons 💀 nobody is being a 6’9 pass first pg 😂 and all of a sudden magic invented the no look pass and the first break ? 💀 stopppop ittt . He might’ve popularized it but he didn’t change anything

⁠@@SDesWriterwdym ? So you telling me curry can’t run the office ? With his gravity alone he pulls in 2 to 3 defenders a large percentage of the game , now defenses have to zone and that causes problems .. he gets assists every game ? He’s the all time assist leader in gs franchise , and he gets rebounds on top of his scoring ability 💀 and he’s plays good help defense

That’s not the game, that is marketing, how many games you win with marketing?

But who uses that crossover now? Can the big guys use it, does change the way you run a fast break or defend a fast break? Does it make every person not the opposing team help to try and stop him, does it demand a double or triple team?

@@kgar5String "does change the way you run a fast break" The clear-path rule was introduced because of A.I.. "Does it make every person not the opposing team help to try and stop him, does it demand a double or triple team?" The defensive three second rule was introduced because of A.I..

Did you see the mf play

Overrated. He played only against white guys in the 50’s and 60’s and only won two rings. Bill Russell won 11

Wilt not even top 20

Shoot, the disrespect on Bill Russell is also crazy!

@@edwardii3920 ppl ONLY sat Bill name because the rings

I don't think it's really possible to compare Tim to Kobe. Duncan is by far the most disrespected super star of his generation and is the greatest pf to play in the league, but I don't know if I can agree he was better than Kobe. The play styles, leadership styles, impact to the game, etc are just too different. I would say Kobe is the greater player because he had a much further outreach to fans, nba players, across different entertainment mediums, etc. Duncan won his rings, quietly dominated and disappeared until wemby was drafted. I would argue - Duncan is the prototypical system super star. In the right system, he will win. However, if he had a coach like d'antoni...bro would have failed. Kobe, I feel like, could dominate 1:1 regardless of who was on his supporting cast and could will his entire team and coaching staff to a victory. We saw that when Kobe carried the Lakers to an 8th seed So, comparing feats and long term impact to the game I would argue Kobe is the greater player between the two despite the fact I would out Duncan at number 1 greatest PF (although, this is definitely gonna change with the modern era)

SHAQ?

He said Shaq

True, but the style of play, it’s required for all bigs to knock down 3’s now, really everyone on the team, that never happened before. If it wasn’t for Steph Curry, u wouldn’t have a guy like Jokic shooting 3’s like that.

That made you horny huh

How? U can't teach size and IQ

Doing what exactly ? It was a 6ft plus guard that’s all

@@DKhalil which was never seen before

@@TreyDoewhich is greater magic being 6ft or curry being the best shooter of all time 😂

@@abe.officialsyt5355 I didn’t say which is greater. I’m just saying Magic changed the game, Kenyon said he didn’t

😢

😂😂😂 how is Steph better than Kobe?

Yo Mount Rushmore trash lol

@@gifi11 where did I say he was better? This is based off evolving the game … between the time Mike retired & Steph got to the game, who CHANGED it more than Steph??

@@timmylittle8477 I don’t give a damn what you think

I agree with you on that point. But I’m not sure what about D-Wade was a game changer (just curious).

73-9 is pretty took over. Unanimous MVP and going back to beck is taking over

And he did it in the West

This isn’t true. Magic was great and all but he was still ultimately the next evolution of Oscar Robertson. Not saying there would’ve been another Magic, but there was eventually going to be a wave of big point guards as the game progressed, Magic or no Magic, because that mold had already been broken.

@@troygardner822 How is that comparable? Magic is 4 inches taller than Big O who still was playing at guard size. For that day and age Magic was the size of a PF. Size isn’t the only thing that made Magic’s game. The IQ, vision, flash and flare is what he revolutionized for the big man at that position. The moment he stepped onto an NBA court that Oscar comp died.

@@YonnieClarkTV Being 4 inches taller is irrelevant. Oscar was the previous iteration of big guards. Oscar was 4-5 inches taller than most at his position at the time. This is what set the stage for there to eventually be even bigger guards to come later and why a 6’3-6’5 pg is now so common today. Not to mention big wings who had a varied skill set was not a new thing when Magic came out. People just forget their history easily. I agree with you that it’s not comparable. That’s my point…

Bird is top 5 in my book. Greatest rebounder of all time at his position and second greatest passer of all time at his position. 4 all defensive teams and one of the most efficient scorers of all time. 3 mvps IN A ROW for a good reason

Truuuu

I think it's because they don't want to admit a unathletic white guy is top 5 all-time, even though personally he has a better case for it individually than Magic.

Bird over lebron in every category except longevity. Fact.

@@wakeuptotheonepartyoverlor8797 bron got more mvps and fmvps while being the better passer and defender

Lebron didn't change player/team loyalty 😂😂. Shaq was drafted in Orlando and played on how many teams? Kareem wasnt drafted by the Lakers either! But lebron did make the NBA a player's league instead of owners having all of the power.

not as much as steph lol relax

Maybe you don’t know what changed game means? They are talking about how the game is played, Muggsy Bouges in archetype.

@@jamesmorgan8830 Steph's not going to be in the GoaT convo, relax.

Curry > Magic

Ai > curry: just imagine if ai was americas fav like curry he would’ve retired with 3 or 4. Curry is a top 20 player if influence is a part of the goat convo. Idk what everyone was doing as kids but ik dunking wasn’t happening. All you had was in this order was crossovers, layups, and 3s. So to say influence is hard proving point for kids. In the nba I can say influence counts but the nba was going more offensively. So they let a lot moving screens and offense fouls go with curry like Jordan and his fouls.

True

The only SF better higher than Bird on the all time players list is LeBron. The fuck are you talking about lmfao

Both of you guys are right. We’ve seen some great SF like Lebron Durant and Kawhi that makes you question the match up with Bird which makes surpassing him reachable. While with Magic, before Steph there was a humongous gap between him and the 2nd best PG which make Magic stand out more to be a unicorn (still does). K Mart was trying to explain this. Bird is still the 2nd best SF ever tho. Idk why Gilbert said Bird wouldn’t be a top 4 SF 🤔. The only players that has a chance is Durant and maybe Kawhi 10 years from now but that’s a tough pull.

@@CarolinaScorpioummmm KD?

Agreed sometimes people make list based on popularity and great as Bird was he wasn’t a media player an endorsement player he just played the sport to win.

Bird used to be the gm for the pacers

Facts.

Bird also doesn't care about rankings.

Nah you got it wrong…. Until Lebron came and won his rings bird was regarded as the best and most successful SF to ever play the game

But he doesn't have those rings ........... Steph almost put the Spurs down in his rookie year , one of the MOST DOMINANT teams eve.r He dropped 44 points on them in 2013

Bro, I’m in my 40’s been watching basketball since the 80’s and I’ve never seen a player actually changed the style of play for the entire league, they got centers and bigs shooting 3’s 🤯 that never happened in the history or basketball or just basketball ball overall, it’s not only the NBA. It’s a worldwide effect for every aspect of basketball.🤯 not even MJ23 did that. I’m a huge MJ fan, but Curry changed Basketball forever, they can’t go back to the old ways, that’s how impactful he is.

@@NYCBX9 Impact, already has another meaning in basketball, and it's different from changing the game. The other players in the GoaT convo have a bigger impact on the court than Steph.

I have Jordan, Magic, Bird and Kareem as my Mt Rushmore

​​@@penkima4923 Your interpretation of what Brandon brought up where I time stamped it is clearly different than mine. They way I took what Brandon said was.... Who has more impact than Steph that wasn't a top 3 draft pick with hype & D1 offers from everywhere. Came out of high school. That went to a Mid Major. Or was physically gifted

Who is KD?

There have been plenty of tall point guards

​@@gold6759who was the tall PG before Magic????

stacked team lol ...all they had was a uninspired kareem there team was barely over 500 getting knocked out the playoffs or not going at all....kobe was carrried shaq for 6 years not winning mvp barely at all how u figure that....u sound autisic

@@TheTonytone77 A 40 year old limping Kareem is still better than 90% of the league, Magic got some good years from him. Also, Worthy was there. They also had good depth behind those 3 stars, and the conference was still tissue soft. At least Shaq/Kobe had great teams in thier conference.

The Lakers were seen as the Celtics little brothers until Magic came around. Him and Kobe are the faces of the Lakers. They had won only one championship when they moved to LA until Magic got there. His impact made them the biggest NBA franchise in the world.

@@datsapaddlin It helps that all the best players somehow gravitate to LA. The Celtics also have a history of great teams, though more of their talent is drafted. Its funny how the Celtics have only won once this century and the rivals are still tied. Bill Russell deservers more credit. Also, Kobe should be the greatest Laker. He had an exponentially tougher conference and got to 5 with less help at the end. Thats why it confuses me when Magic is on this pedestal and people barely have Kobe top 10. The only difficulty Magic met was at the doctors office and when Bird (the better player) came to town. Bird was matching up with that Lakers super team with a definitively worse (still great) team. I think people are just fascinated by the flashy passing, Bird was the better all around shooter/defender and still a great passer. In summary, Bird and Kobe clear.

@@split_head_776 Magic made the Lakers the big name franchise they became in LA. He won more MVPs and finals MVPs and has the highest assists per game average ever. I got it as a tie. They both are the faces of the Lakers. Magic helped save the NBA. Kobe a better all around player obviously but him and Magic share the face of the franchise.

Do you know how hard it is to win rings or even get to the finals? He got to the finals 8 or 9 times, 8 of those in a row and won 4, the change was good.

@@kgar5String The Warriors won titles with their shooting, but made the NBA games look like lame 3-point contests. Steph is the worst thing that has happened to the NBA from the stand point of fans, who watch the games.

Wilt so over rated. He played In the 50’s and 60’s against non hoopers and only won two rings. 14 years 2 rings stop it.

Bro you're bugging! That's like saying Ted Williams isn't one of the greatest hitters of all time. He's the last person to hit 400 but he doesn't have chips cuz the Yankess were STACKED just like the Celtics were in that era. Russell has 11 rings in 13 years.

@@latnassacinlabelling someone with 2 rings as the top 4 greatest is craziness.

agree 100%, I mean you wanna put Shaq in the top 5 because he could dunk too strongly? and you re leaving out Kareem and Magic? wtf?...

Lakers built their team around magic who’s a guard. Your statement is false

Laker's didn't build around Magic. The 1978 Laker's were already stacked.

Players shooting long ass distance

You made good points until the curry one. That’s just you’re opinion it’s not a fact

Steph isn't a great shooter.

no it's not your mother yes

Yeah, it’s not fair bc MJ is so far ahead of the others

Sure, Magic averaged 19, but he generated more points than Bird with his passing/vision. Which led to winning

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

😂😂😂😂😂

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I mean 3 time all NBA isn't nothing. He was the man.. him and d Wade are my favourites of all time just cause of when I started watching

3x All NBA

😂😂😂

LeBron, Kareem, MJ, Bird, Russell..

Disagree.

Naw bro, you’re wrong

MT Rushmore is 4 lol

You just wrote a paragraph and didn’t say a single reason. You literally just talked

​@-jabe your reading comprehension may need improvement. He clearly said Lebron revolutionized body treatments and other things.

@@-jabeyou took the short bus to school I see

Not only that but he gave players WAY more power when he went to Miami. Changed the whole dynamic of the player and owner relationships when it comes to star players.

What Lebron has done hasn’t benefited the league what he has done has been detrimental to the league.

Bruh you dumb as hell 💀

Facts his influence and skill is a part of the nba marketing just like Jordan got his fouls.

He won’t, Warriors ass and he definitely not the goat

Called him 30 lol

Thats what they said 2022

The league won’t let him surpass Lebron 💯

@@Dipset415 his accolades n defense won’t, can’t be goat when u been targeted on defense ya whole career. Also wat goat has 1 fmvp