It was Doug Collins who said "get the ball to Michael and get the hell out of the way", not Phil Jackson.

Salley was partially right. Phil Jackson said the triangle was designed to get role players shots, not the stars. He said MJ could get any shot at any time, but the triangle allowed the role players to stay involved in the offense.

Rashad don’t understand that without the triangle, we watched Jordan and Kobe lose multiple times, pre and post Phil

This was the most introspective and informative discussion I've heard on this topic, really got me thinking.

“Well I’ve been watching the show…You don’t. You don’t not like LeBron”~ John Salley Comedic timing was clutch 😂 💎

Mccants will make a great argument poorly

John Salley schooled them young boys with his basketball knowledge.

Rashad literally KILLS ME LIKE BRO!

Lebron should never be compared to MJ and Kobe. Lebron created his own lane and blueprint for success. All of them are the great.

Jennings got me hot from saying malik monk better than donovan mitchell

John Salley “I’m just being serious “🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

40k career points w/o a bag is quite impressive Rashad 😂😂

Mccants tried to deny the fact he don’t like Lebron & Sally said “ I’ve been watching the show you don’t “ 🤣😭😭

John Salley created this chaos and just sitting back enjoying it 🤣 20:55

If we gonna use the label analogy then Lebron's 1st two accolades would be like an artist doing a real hot feature on someone's else album. He didn't win until he joined or as people say formed a super team. Miami was D Wade's team. Respectfully

LeBron didn't have a system but kept top players around him. He didn't want a system he wants the ball in his hands and his competition in the same uniform.

15:40 “this is a great analogy, I’m stealing this for a segment”😂😂

Love that actual players discuss instead of never played talking heads. Great conversation.

did you see how Mccants was looking when John Salley said Gil would make a great coach...27:33

I agree with Sally! I’m not a player. But this show, was the Best that I’ve seen on Gills show. Great Minds; great Minds. You all have helped me understand the histories and individuals, and with the game is today and where it’s going tomorrow. You remain blessed.

Record sales doesn't mean the music is good. It just means it's popular.

"I'm just being serious” 😂😂

What they failed to mention that LeBron went to Miami and played under Coach Eric Spolstra along with D. Wade and Chris Bosche. Then went back to Cleveland and played with K. Love, K. Irving, JR Smith coached by Ty Lue. Then went to Lakers played with AD, D. Howard, Rajon Rondo, K. Kuzma, A. Caruso, M. Morris, Javale McGee and was also coached by Frank Vogel. In other words LeBron did play within a system with a few coaches.... But he did not play Tex Winters, Phil Jackson triangle system like MJ, Shaq and Kobe.

A lot of facts spoken.... you are constantly going to hear things like this for the next 20 years.

This was probably one of the best MJ, Kobe, Lebron debate I’ve ever seen. ESPN and other media/podcast will definitely be using the analogies yall used. Shoutout to Gil’s Arena 🙌🏽🙌🏽

Lebron use to have a system: Surround him with shooters.

I like when players that played break down basketball it brings us in to the truth of how they think about the x and O's of the game

This is high level sports conversation!

When all else fails, Just talk about LeBron. Dude is always brought up for no reason whatsoever.

Am I crazy that I completely understand Mccants this episode? Edit: Nevermind. This blunt hittin.

Mike got 6 in 8yrs, No Lost in the Final... Kobe got 5 in 10, with 2 losses in the Final... Lebron got 4, in 10, with 6 losses in the Final... Curry got 4, in 7, with 2 Losses in the Final..

Shout out to John Salley and Rashad McCants. Only people who actually having a debate. The way this conversation went before Gil tried to reset the room actually was the most honest anyone has been about the GOAT conversation. Just because a guy brute force his way to success doesn't mean that he had a "harder" or takes away from the others success. Why do good artists borrow and great artists steal, because you understand your faults and short comings and work on it to get better. The fact is, Kobe and Jordan has more success because they learned from history as well as from within, that's why you never heard blame or criticism on anyone else. You are the leader, no one cares about your troops because they are your troops.

Phil was a new coach when began coaching Jordan. Riley was a new coach when he coached Magic, and Kerr was a new coach when he coached Curry. Bron isn’t the only player to win with new coaches. Also, Miami had a system when Bron played there.

McCants has solid opening points, that he just consistently drops the ball with.

Love the messiah and Roman’s analogy

very, very intelligent conversation between Men!!! great job fellas!!!!!!

Man y’all gotta put Tim Duncan up there…5 chips in 6 tries

The main issue is LeBron had the option to have a system NUMEROUS times because Bron had heavy influence on coaching choices. And the one time he was in a system (Miami) he decided to leave. You can make the argument he chose this career.

The system does not dictate the skill set. Mike did everything without a system except win.

music metaphor was on point

Phil Jackson was coaching in Mexico when the Bulls hired him to come and coach an already MVP/DPOY Michael Jordan. It was the fact that MJ listened and made everyone else fall in line that made it work. If he treated Phil the way LBJ treats ALL his coaches going back to HS, none of us would know who Phil was.

the system don't mean sh*t if you don't have players like MJ, Kobe, Shaq. We saw what happened in NY

Every time i hear Salley talk i remember he didnt ride in the back of the bus on his title teams. He was a contributor and a reason they won. He didnt accidentally go from DET to CHI to LAL. And win at all stops

Did he really mentioned 88 MJ and Lebron 23 in the same sentence ? This dude really can’t debate 😂

McCants be talking in circles bruh, basically tryna find a reason to hate on Bron lol

Jordan’s skill set had coaches calling him the best basketball player ever before he stepped on an NBA floor.

I agree with the magic comparison

I love these sport conversations.

Rashad started off so strong but his bias kicked in. Mike & Kobe never won anything outside the triangle. (I'm not knocking them for that either.)

You casuals please do NOT give Phil credit for the Triangle. Tex Winter was the mind behind the triangle and was on Phil’s staff pn every team

Steve Kerr said the triangle wasn't for MJ and Pippen, because they were gifted enough to be able to score in any offense.. It was more so for everyone else on the team..

The Triangle is Hard to get Right gotta have the right fit of players to fully get the Triangle offense

Aye that record label comparison by Gil was a great one never heard it out like that

That label analogy was on point Gil

Reason Bron don’t have more rings is bc he played against some hella stacked teams. Only one he shouldn’t have lost was the Mavs that was on him

The problems with this arguments concerning players is that it is often elemental and not the sum of the elements.

McCants whole demeanor changed at the end 😂😂😂 Feelings was hurt

Wait, Lebron was like Magic. Who was Magic’s coach when he won his championships? Pat Riley. When Lebron was in Miami whose system was he in? Pat Riley. If Lebron wanted to be a part of a winning system, he had one. He left it.

THANK YOU ! Gil speaking FACTS

couldve sworn he was talkin about ‘Russ’ when he brought up the independent artist analogy

Everything Sally said in that podcast clip was on point

We gon ignore how salley said he’s 6’11 and 2 quarters 🤣 10:22

“Black Jesus” w/o the system doesn’t measure up to KBJ

Going back to the original premise…LBJ has some accountability for choosing to NOT find system like the triangle to win more chips…he had more control to move to other franchises or form his teams and who’s the coach. MJ and Kobes had to accept, adapt and evolve their games to win more within the system they were coached to run…part of each player’s BB IQ. Flip this hypothetical, non-system Jordan still would have won more and be the all time record holder of stats as his “drive” for greatness was unmatched.

So you telling me lebron didn’t play in a system in Miami? D wade , Bosh , an bron

I'm a pretty firm believer that a set system wouldn't enhance what LeBron does it would lessen it. Bron is the system wherever he goes for better or worse.

In addition, Tim Cone, the winningest coach in the PBA uses the same system as well..

I forgot what I had to say u guys are to funny. 😭

This was a hell of a show. Y'all broke this down. Very intellectual

Mccant be having them on ropes but he be falling out the rails in the middle of the conversations 😂🤦🏾‍♂️

Rashad is the king of arguing against his own point lmao. “He’s not a great coach because he hasn’t won with the talent he DOESN’T have”

Also it’s the fact they take 3s when they losing in critical moments when they just need a quick 2. that kills me watching them.

Although I agree, you guys glossed over the fact of Lebron being in the eastern conference for most of his career. Put Kobe In the east during his prime with Kyrie/Love or D Wade/Bosh and he would've made just as many final appearances. He had much tougher comp in the west. This isn't a fair hypothetical for Lebron MJ, or Kobe. Let all 3 of them just be great

The thing is, it seems like they're using two different styles of arguments to defend lebron, and dont do the same for the other two. They're giving the " but you have to add context" argument for the areas where lebron falls short, and the switching to the absolute, raw numbers argument when it benefits lebron. Like you cant say "his 4 rings must be looked at in the context of his teammates and lack of system" and then just say "well he has the most points so end of discussion". Do the same for the other two then. You could easily say "kobe or jordan dont have the most points but context" and then add "and they have more rings, end of discussion". I think thats where Rashad and Gil missed each other. Gil jumps from saying "lebron should get extra points for these circumstances" to "lebron is numerically the best in this category, period"-you cant win a discussion when dude is just gonna change the metric/argument to favor who he has decided should win. If we're looking at it both of these ways, lets do it for all three and stack it up.

Mccants been serving gil up all szn.

It was obvious watching Golden State vs Cleveland for four years... Draymond green is the key to the warriors system..

My new favorite is Gil restates macants argument, and then Brandon realizes how right Gil is, then kinda gets all excited but it’s like a chill excited.

Rashad tries to make points to discredit Bron, starts moving his hands and adding more points… eventually he just makes the case for the Bron being the GOAT. He should just start arguing that Bron is his GOAT… it’ll eventually lead to points strengthening Mike and Kobe’s cases.

so we just dismissed the fact that he was in a system in Miami and when Pat Riley didn’t bend the knee to him he took off

McCants takes about LeBron never make sense because he allows his personal dislike for LeBron to over shadow the point his trying to make. I don’t know if it’s just that he can’t articulate what he really means because he doesn’t have the words in his vocabulary but he continues to contradict himself whenever the discussion about “the greatest” is bought up…

The Warriors, Bulls and Lakers were a solid system because of the chemistry they had with players that played together for a long period of time along with great coaching.

I don't understand the independent conversation about Lebron James. So in other words, Lebron James independently ran his own plays, coach the team while playing in the game and sub the players in and out the game? All professional basketball players play under a system that the HC implement to his players. The system might not as good as the triangle offense but all NBA players plays under a system.

Someone said 70s &80s dudes should have a podcast and I cannot get that out my head. Sally needs to get these stories out

If LeBron played for Pop or in any elite system he would have 8 rings by now. I have said this for a decade.

Not a Bron fan but it's crazy to say he doesn't have a bag

Why don’t they ever say “ give Mike Dwade and Bosh and Ray Allen and Mike Miller and AD and Kyrie and Love and then you don’t need a system when you have more top 75 players than any other player in history.

If they were all at a park with no name and their own team, everybody would be talking bout “that man number 23 and that boy wearing 24 the coldest mf’ers out here!” 23 being Jordan n 24 being Kobe.

Lebron does have a system. Erick Spoelstra gave it to him. It wasn’t till he got to Miami that his iq kicked in to play the game more methodical than out of pure athleticism. Just listen to his podcast with JJ…. Just because he didn’t play the Triangle doesn’t mean that he didn’t have a system.

Or maybe LeBron don't want to play in a system

One thing about sports arguments and debates: One can not make a definitive statement based on an “if” or an opinion. It’s also funny that folks use the all-time scoring record as an advantage for LeBron. The same folks never used this argument for Cap or Karl Malone (in terms of greatness based on all time scoring).

I dont even really like basketball, but im a man, so i keep aware of it. This discussion was very well thought out & entertaining. Ive been a gil fan since he was on VLad

Gil been Lebrons #1 Superfan since he tapped his chest that game 😂😂😂

Salley dismissing Olajuwon's championship takes away his credibility. Also, no mention of Kareem in a GOAT discussion, further undercuts the discussion.

“Anytime you put the weight on someone who doesn’t have the system, they lose” who was the 2016 world champions ?

I get the argument that the system can help a player reach their peak as it sets the foundation for them to build and improve skills. Lebron was so skilled that he was able to win without that foundation, basically making it up as he went along.

Anytime I see John Salley talkin Basketball, I watch.

Ever notice Detroit Pistons players inevitably in the end go against Jordan.

You can't be great unless you stand for something in life. Your fight is not with flesh and blood, but principalities in high places. You got to fight for those who cannot fight for themselves.

You put him I'm the triangle and forget...hypertical..if you win..you win whatever it takes..that's a champion!

The triangle didn’t enhance Kobe and Jordan. It enhanced the players around them.