It’s annoying when people treat western groups or non Korean groups as a new thing when western groups were literally the blue print for kpop to even begin as an industry

All I’m gonna say is I believe in Flo Supremacy ✨

Thinking about the Motown school to help with artist development, makes you realize how important it is. It’s crazy how you can see the difference between then and now 😭

My biggest problem with K-pop right now is the anti blackness. Aside from Fatou, none of these global girl groups have fully black members. I have no issue with the addition of biracial members, but I don’t like how K-pop is using them to reprisent “more easily accepted” versions of black girls. They also don’t want more than one black girl in there groups at a time. Korea is getting used to using tokenism like American media does. K-pop needs more diversity. Another problem is that they only get super skinny girls, but that’s for another day.

I need girl groups to become a common thing all around the world

I want to see a resurgence in groups. I just hope that they keep their integrity and don’t get exploited. Won’t be easy.

Honestly if kpop companies are serious about promotion in the west long term. They should consider investing in bringing music shows back to channels like mtv.

XG I do want to say as an Alpha(fandom), they are a Japanese sub label, they are under AVEX - XGALX, the label is from Japan but promoting in Korea, trying to appeal to the K-pop international fan base to eventually reach a global audience. AVEX is a sub label of Mitsubishi corporation, and AVEX manages a lot of the distribution for SM and YG in Japan, they have a joint label (YGEX for YG in Japan and AVEXTrax for SM artists )

I didn’t want to say it, but I can’t overlook the blatant colorism in these global girl groups the K-pop companies are producing. In general, there seems to be a lack of darker skin women in all of these newer girl groups. Not all of them, but enough of them to grant a side eye.

With the growing global popularity of Afrobeats, I would love to see a group made of Black and African girls leaning into that sound.

I love girl groups, and I listen to a lot of kpop girl groups specifically, and I’m overall excited for the return of girl groups in the west and these multinational efforts - however, one thing I don’t love about the idol system in Korea nowadays, and what I’m already seeing with VCHA, is the fact that so many groups nowadays debut children. Like, the youngest member of VCHA is 13. The training system is rigorous, often comes at the expense of education, and can cause or exacerbate serious physical and mental health issues. In my opinion, that’s just too much to put on a child. I wish they would maybe train them for a few more years and debut them at 18, or even 16 at the very earliest. It happens in the US too and it’s still terrible; that’s how things happen like what Alyson Stoner describes in their currently-airing podcast, “Dear Hollywood.” I just really hope someone is looking out for and advocating for these kids, and that their needs are being met.

It will be quite interesting to see how these new global groups will promote in America since there aren’t any music shows in the West. I hope that these group do become successful and diversify and broaden both the Korean and Western music industry.

I hate seeing teenagers as idols. I maybe wouldn't have noticed as a kid, but they look like babies. But I guess it's not so different from artists like beyonce, Rihanna, Justin Beiber etc who at least started performing as kids and teens, and will appeal to people their age. It's weird to think that I'm closer in age to the people I listed than to any of these up and coming trainees. But when I was a teen Justin Beiber and 1D were sooo big. When it comes to these things, I hope we don't allow more child idols, I prefer people in their twenties to debut and have some creative control to give the music flavour. Songs go viral all the time, but very few have real staying power. That might be a big ask these days tho.

Honestly im Italian and here we really don't have music shows or anything so I'd want them to be promoted more than just as sponsors for fashion and fragrance brands 😭

XG is doing it right. They are getting their name out there by doing stuff in Korea, Japan, USA, Australia, etc. They speak Japanese, Korean, and English. They put 100% energy, work, and emotion into their music. XG doesn't just follow a concept or a style, XG lives it and can change it up.

Even though XG have training with Korean idol system and their activities mostly in SK but they aren't K-Pop group XG is R&B HipHop girl group their music and style it's so different.

I’m hoping that VCHA blows up at least a little bit. Since they are young, I would like for JYP to target a younger audience. We have had a lack of tween and teen based content in the U.S. for years and it would nice for kids to have a musical act they could idolize outside of Olivia Rodrigo and Billie Eilish.

i hope this new venture in global groups will revive interest in music and dance shows in america/the west

Minors should not debut!!

It's great that you mentioned Motown's influence on K-pop group systems, but we can't forget K-pop is a mix of US and Japanese idol systems. Culturally (and historically) there's an overlap with Japan way more than the US, and I would say this plays a significant impact in how K-pop, although incredibly successful (beyond what I expected when I became a fan over 10 years ago) feels somewhat constrained to break through the US market compared to projects like NiziU in Japan. I honestly feel the current "global group" projects will not nearly break this barrier and will remain limited to the already existing K-pop fandom, if not proven to be less successful than "local" groups. K-pop has been going on this weird "Americanization" path lately, in my opinion. The idol image system comes specifically from Japan (where it has developed since the 60s, versus the mid-90s in Korea), it's absolutely engrained culturally, and it's hardly translated to the Western market. Last but not least, let's not forget about the racism against Asians in the US - there is a political and economic barrier as well.

The idol system was derived from Motown? I guess that makes sense to create a cohesive group

With Vcha what we hear now isn't their finall sound it's just the songs from the show and a pre-debut. So what we hear now will change over time and that will be their final sound. The same happened with Twice after doing the show Sixteen. They have no official debut date yet but, according to the JYP website they will debut this year Q4.

this concept in theory is interesting bc it could potentially revive the boy/girl group which have been a dying breed for years now, but the idea of applying the Korean idol system to western audiences is kinda 😬 bc I don’t think Korean entertainment understands what western audiences actually look for in a music group, Korea mostly operates on superficial marketability while talent and establishing a musical brand is secondary, whereas in the west the music is the gateway, if the music isn’t good, ppl aren’t going to tune in, the main reason why kpop is successful in Korea is bc they recycle the same music trends with a different aesthetic, and companies just ride the coattails of whatever got popular, ofc there’s exceptions to this rule (blackpink) but if they’re intending to market specifically towards Americans, they can’t do what blackpink does regurgitating the same concepts over and over

XG top tier gg global another level their songs in english the 4 rappers Maya, Cocona,Jurin,Harvey are so good , Chisa, Juria,Hinata the singers are angels XG CERTIFIED

Personally, I don't think there's going to be renaissance for girl groups, or music groups in general, in America any time soon. The whole "cult of the individual" attitude here is just too strong for any multi-member music groups to do well. Even rock bands are no longer doing well mainstream. American labels go for soloists bc they're cheaper to fund and easier to control while the American general publics loves soloists bc there's only one person that they can prop up as this ~authentic~ superstar that they can stan. I think the A2K and Dream Academy groups will find some kind of success with the niche kpop fans in America but they're not going to flow up with the American GP or anything.

It’s weird to see black ppl auditioning for a style of music we founded and to be ostracized, repackaged and sold…our own shit.

As a person who loves music and has study and found a lot of old girl groups/solo artists very good I am rooting for BLACKSWAN here. Tho I wish the company just declared Rania disbanded and then form a new group called BLACKSWAN instead of switching the Rania name to BLACKSWAN so that BLACKSWAN would appear fresh as new. But now BLACKSWAN is doing way much better and the company is actually putting in effort on trying to get these 4 girls success. BLACKSWAN has payed the way for all these other kpop girl groups with non Korean members which the kpop community fails to admit just because all the members don't look Korean and aren't korean. Let me remind you people, without hip-hop, kpop wouldn't exist and that's a fact. I would also want to say something about this new group called vcha. Noticed how jyp wanted a international girl group but they train under the kpop system. Same thing with what BLACKSWAN is doing but the skin tones are very different. Jyp is still being racists and it's so sad to see how they brought girls that fit the beauty system. What I'm saying is that it's not really diverse. Dr company was actually bold enough to bring diversity in BLACKSWAN but the kpop community says BLACKSWAN is not kpop just because there is no Korean members or just because sriya and fatou don't fit the beauty standard just because they are "too dark" Also don't forget about citizen queen. They are also the next line up next to FLO and boys world. Those 3 girl groups are trying to bring back girl groups in America in general and I am all for it. All three are doing great just need more promotion like FLO. Also noticed how the kpop community is rooting for dream academy but not BLACKSWAN. Funny how ya claim to be supportive but actually behind those smiles of ya's it's actually fake and you guys are still racists. Ya people are the same ones supporting xg just because of the skin tone when xg isn't even a kpop group they just promote in korea because its popular nowadays so they want to reach the success of being a girl group as was said in this video. But anyways, please support everyone and please have the correct information and don't be like the kpop community who still wants to act dumb and stupid and not do research but also still be racist towards African Americans and dark skin women or women who don't fit the kpop "beauty skin tone standard". Edit: Basically colorism is involved in this with these new groups coming in along with BLACKSWAN. I forgot the word but my brain decided to remember it after I finished writing this lolol. I hope this all makes sense tho. My point still stands tho.

I enjoy Vcha, I was friends with Lexus in school (she was a junior while I was a senior) I have to support, but yeah my biggest interest is promotions and concerts!! Much love from Milwaukee, Wisconsin!!

Blackswan😍

I’m excited to see where Vcha goes! I watched A2K since it came out, and was excited, as this is my first group I followed since “before debuting”. Should be very interesting to say the least!

I will never forget when some kpop stans liked tweet saying _"MOTOWN? who the fuck all these nobodies"_ black Twitter dragged kpop ! 😂 As a kpop stan myself I was sooo embarrassed ! Kpop stans need to conduct Music history study 😅

i definitely want more english speaking pop girl groups to debut

I grew up watching British music shows like Top of the Pops and CDUK, I don’t hear many people talk about this aspect as most people focus on USA, but many countries used to have music shows! So it’s natural for people to seek this out now that it’s not part of the culture in those countries anymore. TOTP was the worlds longest running weekly music show and finished in 2006.

K-pop idols version of “inspiration” is just straight off ripping the artist they find “cool” off

Active American Girl Groups: Citizen Queen & Boys World. I recommend both groups. All very talented women, you won't be disappointed 💖

Flo slay and boys world and citizen queen need more hype

Blackswan were the blueprint (dark skin & brown skin idols) & success for non-Kop group, that's why JYP started the A2K group (no brown/dark skin idols). Giving JYP side eye for his inspirations & actions👀👀👀

Spice girls were the first big global girl group. They had stage names and were EVERYWHERE!

I know they tried to revive the show TRL (Total Request Live) awhile back but I wouldn't mind seeing a show like that again. MTV needs to put the music back in MTV but I also realize the amount of people who actually watch tv nowadays is getting smaller. For those that don't know or were too young TRL was a daily tv show in the afternoon on MTV where they counted down the top 10 requested music videos voted on by fans. It was filmed live from Times Square in New York City and hundreds of fans would stand on the street waiting to see their favorite celebrities in the big window in the TRL studio. I especially remember when artists like Backstreet Boys or NSYNC were there the crowd would cover blocks. But the show also did interviews and music performances. It was a great promotional tool for music artists. NSYNC was recently on the show hot ones and Chris Kirkpatrick was talking about TRL and he said getting a number 1 music video on TRL was a bigger deal than getting a number 1 on the billboard charts, that's how big the show was. I just wish we had a show that brought back that enthusiasm for music.

I’m so glad you talked about the Motown system because I genuinely had no idea about it!

I’m glad groups are coming back I love the different cultures in them. Now the thing is with these labels they put them out so fast they don’t give them creative freedom. I just feel like the groups are so bland …

I wish they can debut adult groups more often so they can be some variety

also another good example is akb48 (a jpop girl group) has many sister groups which are in different prefectures of japan (such as nmb48 based in osaka and ske48 based in nagoya)! also international sister groups such as bnk48 based in bangkok thailand or akb48 team sh in shanghai! i think they did the localization/globalization the best out of ANYONE

Music fans in the west are tireeeeeed of messy artists that cant dance, cant sing, cant act right in public, we need back the training system. Everyone is tired of these social media singers that only look and sound good in their ig feed and nowhere else…

Interesting, I actually been seeing Bighit hosting a global audition online. Been debating if I should go for it but it’s interesting how the Idol group model is expanding now

is anybody put off that the ages of trainees continue to be Children ??? because imo thats a big source of the detrimental effects of the industry

Thank you for the research on how black people were the pioneers of the idol system that kpop used. People are ignorant about how kpop is just korean language, but their identity is rooted in what the west has already done.

I've always felt like having K-pop groups with both Korean members and foreign members is important. TWICE's Japanese members are popular among Koreans and both Japanese and Korean news outlets have written about the group overall helping to soften Japan-Korea social tensions. Le Sserafim have been working with popular Japanese artists and producers for their recent Japan comeback and K-pop/J-pop collabs have been common ever since the 2nd gen days. It was because of this that when NiziU came around and were so successful in Japan that I was worried K-pop companies would abandon putting Japanese members in their Korean groups. Representation is really important, but obviously it's a double edged sword too, TWICE have had several controversies stemming from their mix of nationalities. I definitely understand the fears of xenophobia for these idols.

Oh i totally forgot about motown school We need that to make a comeback in the west cause a lot of our current mainstream artists can't perform

While I hope that the groups are prosperous in their careers, these K-pop companies think they can do the same system in the West that Korea took inspiration from when the Western musical landscape is ABSOLUTELY different. I believe that is the reason why FLO (and maybe XG at the beginning, but I don't know about now) is truly the only group as of now that actually feels like a global group since they are trendy in the US, South America, Europe, and part of Southeast Asia, mainly because there are little to no R&B groups popping as much as they are. We are entering an era where more Western groups are returning, but it will take time for them to be on the same level as solo artists.

XG yuhh

i would like to see an american tv network try a show similar to Produce 101, but perhaps only people over the age of 18

Black Swan is also a global group but has a career in Korea as Kpop

XG😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍

Thanks for featuring Vcha. Been watching A2K since Episode 1 and them girls are truly talented.

I just don’t see a point in having groups that were put together solely for the sake of making money. The idols get to express 0% of their personality and art because the label dictates what they say, do, or even how they move. It’s all extremely superficial and just a big money making scheme

XG is just different.. Their performance is really refined.

I had never seen your videos before, but this one popped into my feed and I was intrigued, so I decided to watch and I'm glad I did, it's well done! I especially appreciated the information about the Motown system. I knew how much that system influenced the idol system in both K-pop and J-pop but I'm glad to see that information there for those who didn't know. I did watch A2K and I'm rooting for VCHA to do well. I'm looking forward to seeing how they'll promote in America since we don't have the same type of music shows like they do in Korea.

I'm excited for any and all groups tbh because I missed groups being a thing here in the west (It's partly why I love kpop so much). I definitely am excited for VCHA because I watched the whole show and I really want them to succeed. I also love Flo.

MXFRUIT is another fun global girl group! They’re from Thailand but one member is French and one is African. I’m also interested to see how the Dream Academy group will turn out

I'm happy as long theres an effort of making western groups comeback in the pop culture again...its been a while now. Now that it was so boring of what was going on in our pop music these days.FLO are my fav rnb group right now and i hope they will break more records in the future❤

This is my favourite channel on KZfaq - thanks for all the hard work and dedication on making these!

Thanks for this comprehensive video and for drawing the link to the motown training system. As a Spice Girls fan in the 90s, I remember a lot of stigma against manufactured groups, as if they didn't produce "real" music. Yet, oftentimes, there is so much more to being a fan of a group than just the music. Anyway, this video is really well researched and presented. Well done!👏😊

I came here for Blackswan❤ but stayed for the great video

out of all these global girlgroup only FLO make good music

k-pop gatekeepers allow artists to rip off other cultures but kpop member/artists have to be korean..?

I want another co-ed group like KARD but has many member like 7-8, equal ratio for boys:girls

I hope vcha can be a girl group more tweens and little kids can look up too i feel like weve been missing that for a while! :)

XG ❤❤❤

Honestly( and maybe im biased as a person who would totally be interested in being a part of something like this) I think when creating these “multinational” or American groups, they need to start allowing older people audition. Hybe’s audition cut off at only 19 and I personally feel like a “good” cut off(bc let’s face it they aren’t gonna allow ppl who are close to 30) would be around 23. American music taste is more mature and I don’t even mean just sexually. I don’t see a super bubble gum adolescent group going very far into the mainstream. The target audience of groups has always been mostly teens/YA so having ppl within that age range represented is important, not just 16 year olds.

Appreciate the American/S Korean history! I had the same thought about music shows in the US would be a gap. There is no MNET, or Inkigayo etc. Only place I see is Late Night shows or Morning Shows so not enough.

A2k definitely pissed me off with the final line up but I digress. I have slightly more hope in dream academy as long as the debut isn't rigged like r u next. The line up was actually really good in the last vote minus yoonchae just because she's 15 and would be the only minor when they debut. My votes for dream acadamy is manon, samara, Lara, Sophia, ezrela, and nayoung. But honorable mentions are lexie, marquise, and megan. My main gripe with these kpop companies are the whitewashing. The lack of black girls in a2k was insane. Like I immediately knew they all had Latin origins. I think for a global group you need that black girl to become popular in the west. Vcha had Camila and savana who were slightly tan but they are now paler than a paperbag

Correct me if im wrong but i thought the "Idol System" was adapted from Japan.

I am excited for the groups to really train again! you def see the quality with these groups. Seeing them managed so well gives me hope!! I always wonder if earlier girl groups would have thrived more with this model.

I believe kpop is just TLC’s style of music. What other American group first started with this style of music. No one! TLC had the sining, the rapping, and the dancing. When I first got in to kpop back in 1996 I knew it was like the style of TLC also one of my favorite group.

22:38 Just a sidenote though NiziU doesn't perform in korean music shows they do perform in japanese music shows. I've always wondered if they can hit bigger if they did promote in korean music shows

great great video. You are very learned and articulate. Maybe one note to add. the kpop system was borowwed heavily from johnny's entertainment. Johnny kitagawa, the founder, created the modern idol system in 1962. However, kpop companies adapted the formula for a western audience. If you look at the first sm enterainment groups, they are a direct copy of johnny's groups in the 90s.

The dream academy girls are good! Tho not sure how far the short form content will take them. People care about personalities when they watch survival shows.

Very well-done video!! As a long-time kpop fan since mid 2000s, it's wild to see how things have changed for globalization and what it took to get there. Currently, I kinda cringe with A2K just because JYP is AWFUL as a person but I have more faith with Dream Academy. Otherwise, definitely appreciate talents like XG and FLO who is doing the damn thing so well! Artist development is something America and more of the west can do more because I'd love to see more girl/boy groups making strides in performances

K-pop 걸그룹에는 Black swan이라고 있습니다. 한국팬들은 블랙스완을 진심으로 응원하고 있습니다. 이곳에서의 토론들은 블랙스완을 K-pop에서 어떻게 응원하는지를 전혀 모르고 댓글로 토론을 하고 있네요. 😅

I really liked how you explained everything and was interesting to learn about the Motown system. I knew that Lee Soo Man was inspired by what he saw in the USA, while he studied there, when he created the idol training system, but did not know the exact model. Knowing this model I start to understand better why everyone keeps idols at such high (sometimes inhuman) standards. Btw, just to clarify something A2K started to film last year end of summer - the beginning of autumn. The maknae was 12 at the time the first BootCamp was filmed but she turned 13 in November, like a month after the LA BootCamp. She even mentioned this in one of the episodes from the LA bootcamp. Their birthday dates were officially updated until a few days ago was just speculation based on their age at the time the show was filmed. She was born in November 2009. This means that in around 2 months she turns 14, and 2 days before her the second oldest turns 18. We don't know yet when will be the official debut. What they show now is just predebut content so there are high chances for the group to debut when she is close to 15 or older. Like they did something similar with another group formed through the show LOUD. The maknae of the group was 14 at the time of the show, they did not debut yet but are in plan to debut in the first half of 2024, this is close to when he turns 17. It is a possibility but to be honest I am not sure they will do the same because of how fans acted over the fact they did not debut yet. There are 2 years since the show ended and the other group formed in the show debuted, had multiple comebacks (this other group had the members all around 18). Besides from what I saw until now, their songs and content are appropriate for them and they seem super excited about everything so I suppose they still have time to enjoy usual stuff for their age and have better security and environment to prepare for what will come later in the industry. Also, main reason JYP kept Boy Story only in China until now was their age. It was safer and less stressful for them to develop their style and get used with the entertainment industry while they were still in their country. It is true that they debuted in 2018 but their ages ranged from 11 and 14 at the time. JYPE started to promote them in Korea once the youngest was 16. During those years they still went from time to time to the main building in Korea to train or prepare for songs releases and so on. Oh, and they appeared from time to time in behind the scenes clips with other JYP artists. There is also a really sweet zoom call with them and 3Racha from last year. You can see their siblings bond there and how happy they are to see each other. Later update: JYP is also making a legendary girl group where the youngest is 57 and the singers have an average of 38 years of being in the industry. The show will be called Golden Girls and it starts in October. One of them was part of the Hee Sisters, one of the popular girl groups that were promoting in Korea in '70s. Not sure if you want to cover the subject but it would be cool to have a more descriptive video of how girl groups started to develop in South Korea since 1939 with Jeogori Sisters and Kim Sisters in 1950 which built their career by performing for the USA military.

Maybe its time to bring music shows back to the US. We can't do TRL but if we taking tips ftom KPop, maybe make shows like that for Prime time

In the 2010s the company behind the Pussycat Dolls tried to do this global group idea with 'Paradiso Girls' which failed after debut. Ultimately it starts with the music and then good marketing/promo. The West's lack of music shows like TRL of old is the main issue, there is no real centralized spot for big companies to promote on. Everything is now more 'organic.' and I don't know if mainstream media is open to revisiting that old formula in the US in particular either.

I see the appeal of being able to provide training to new artists, being able to hone their skills and learn how to make their art better. The downside though is that being a part of a company with a large profit incentive starts to affect the ability of the artists to truly express themselves. The company has a financial incentive to push existing artists into a mold of what is most marketable and profitable, or they have an incentive to select trainees that they believe will best fit this model. To me this creates an alienation from the artist to the music/art they make. Most music is both a product and art, but as the control of the company increases, the product starts to outweigh the art and it feels less like an authentic expression of humanity and more like a manufactured product. to me, the artistic expression is very important, and something i don't want us to lose. Its ok to have products as well, and for art to also be a product, but i worry about artistic freedom and expression under a system increasingly controlled by financial incentives.

I just wish they didnt debut vcha so quick for example XG had like 6 years worth of training

BABE WAKE UP NAOMI UPLOADED

Thanks for the deep dive, and for providing some history for context. I've been following A2K, as well as RUNext (which did have a number of non-Korean contestants), and am looking forward to seeing how Dream Academy turns out. For me this trend shows that K-Pop is here to stay - I don't see how it could continue to grow at the current pace without influence from places it tries to expand into.

I think there are a few things that western audiences accept with Kpop due to culture that then won't really apply to Western-focused idol groups, so it will be interesting to see them navigate that. ie. Lip syncing won't fly, they will need to be singing the majority of the song live, and they will need to be a bit more open and 'real' in interviews, I don't think audiences here will really connect with artists who give really rigid answers about what they're currently promoting and not talking about themselves or other artists.

BlackSwan is the first & the best. They are Epic😊 블랙스완이 최고임❤

ooohhh hey i'm early haha thanks for another amazing video Naomi :)) it's never a dull moment whenever i watch your videos because it always makes my day 💛💛💛 hope you have a great rest of your day & week !!

Lessons with Naomi 🎉 good morning

was waiting for a video… did not disappoint 🙈🙈

Great, very well-done video! I really enjoyed watching it and it presented information nicely and clearly with good research. I love it

Thank you for another groundbreaking video ❤❤❤❤❤

I WANT THE KPOP SYSTEM to be applied in the us because i want to see my favourites artistes dancing, have physical album with lyrics and photobooks and fandoms

tbh the only way to successfully promote these global groups in the west is through social media or collabs with big western artists

Blackswan 💟💟

Congratulations on your special content videos, it's a masterpiece, with fantastic information! I'm your fan from Brazil.

love your videos naomi ❤

Barry Gordy and Motown understood that it was easier to get on top than to stay on top.