Gnosticism - Scriptures of the Cathars - Introduction, The Vision of Isaiah & Secret Supper of John

Рет қаралды 94,351

2 жыл бұрын

The medieval Gnostics the Cathars have become the stuff of legend - but what Scriptures were holy to them? In a new multi-part series Esoterica is exploring Cathar Scriptures from their relation to the Bible, the inheritance of Bogomil texts and the books produced in Italy and France by the Cathars themselves. Join me this Friday for the first episode of the series exploring their relationship to the Bible, along with the ancient Vision of Isaiah and the Secret Supper of John!
#gnosticism #cathars #heresy
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Recommended Readings:
Cathar Texts online - gnosis.org/library/cathtx.htm
17th century Edition of the Secret Supper (starts on p. 283)- www.google.com/books/edition/...
Primary Sources:
Wakefield - Heresies of the High Middle Ages - 978-0231096324
Léglu, Catherine, Rebecca Rist and Claire Taylor (eds.) The Cathars and the Albigensian Crusade: a Sourcebook (London: Routledge, 2014)
Charlesworth - The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha Volume 2 - 978-1598564907
Traditionalists:
Barber, Malcolm, The Cathars: Dualist heretics in Languedoc in the High Middle Ages, Second edition (Harlow, United Kingdom: Pearson, 2013)
Lambert, Malcolm, The Cathars (Oxford; Malden, Mass.: Blackwell Publishers, 1998)
Lansing, Carol, Power and purity: Cathar heresy in Medieval Italy (New York: Oxford University Press, 1998)
Taylor, Claire, Heresy in medieval France: Dualism in Aquitaine and the Agenais, 1000-1249 (Woodbridge, UK; Rochester, NY: Royal Historical Society/Boydell Press, 2005)
Skeptics:
Moore, R. I., The War on Heresy (Cambridge, Mass.: Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 2012) clio.columbia.edu/catalog/141...
Pegg, Mark Gregory, A Most Holy War: the Albigensian Crusade and the battle for Christendom (Oxford; New York: Oxford University Press, 2008) clio.columbia.edu/catalog/141...
Sennis, Antonio (ed.), Cathars in Question (York: York Medieval Press, 2016)

Пікірлер: 322

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Make Sure to Subscribe & Consider supporting Esoterica by becoming a monthly Patron - www.patreon.com/esotericachannel or a one time donation - www.paypal.me/esotericachannel

@andrearussell8794 2 жыл бұрын

Is this from the Nag Hamadi?? This is not what I read from it.

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

@@andrearussell8794 nope.

@mrpickles3479 Жыл бұрын

A video on the Codex Gigas would be very interesting, as would the Voynich manuscript….

@I_am_Irisarc 2 жыл бұрын

While the erudition provided Dr. Sledge is fascinating, I have to admit, it's his desiccated humor that brings me back. He gives his presentations in eloquent, professorial style, but then occasionally slips into common speech with phrases like "real complicated", oftened accompanied by a sarcastic eye-roll. I love this. It makes the subject more accessible. It tells the listener that, yes indeed, this subject can be dry and sometimes difficult to grasp, but he's aware of his audience and right here with us in trying to understand it in a modern context.

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Also just trying not to take everything so damn seriously - thanks for all the kind comment!

@blazingstar9638 2 жыл бұрын

Frfr

@AI-hx3fx 2 жыл бұрын

I love it when he does that! He suddenly drops funny commentary and I sometimes lose it!

@modulator7861 Жыл бұрын

On the contrary - I think it's his DRY WIT that keeps me coming back.

@I_am_Irisarc Жыл бұрын

@@modulator7861As opposed to dessicated humor, you mean?

@flamingmooseproductions 2 жыл бұрын

As an undergraduate over a decade ago, I wrote a term paper trying to argue that the Cathars had always been an indigenous movement without much direct influence from regions further east or obscure theologies from the distant past. I think I got a B+ and the professor said my argument was interesting but he wasn't convinced that the traditional narrative was incorrect. On the other hand, he may have recommended I read Mark Pegg's work which, as I recall, seemed to be among the modern sources calling into question the very existence of an organized Cathar movement. (Note: I haven't watched the previous episode in this series so I'm not sure if Pegg is discussed at all). A few years later I wrote an unpublished novel which took place in the 1930s and involved neo-Cathars stemming from late 19th c. France. This was before I knew such a modern movement had actually existed in the very same time and place I imagined one to be!

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Nice - yep, Pegg is mentioned a good bit in the previous episode

@jamj59 2 жыл бұрын

what's the novel called?

@thelucidcanoe1549 Жыл бұрын

Please self publish it! Or at least share 🥺

@flamingmooseproductions Жыл бұрын

@@thelucidcanoe1549 Thanks for the encouragement. I wrote it a decade ago now and always thought it needed a lot of work... but then I had to concentrate on my master's thesis at that time. I've spent the last three years writing and preparing a history book on what I refer to as "proto-Christianity" and its relationship to Persia/Parthia. I do plan on self-publishing this one, hopefully by the middle of next year. I still don't have a title for it, though. Probably something using the phrase "House of Rock" somewhere in it.

@jamesbarlow6423 Жыл бұрын

A superb hit! Keep on with the great adventure of open curiosity!

@Lennonka 2 ай бұрын

This connection between cathars and Slavic tribes is fascinating. "Bogomil" could be translated as "a lover of God" or "someone who loves God".

@mariyaatanasova1556 13 күн бұрын

@@Lennonka You are wrong about this translation. Thr word мил does not mean love. It primary means dear and in some contextual cases depending on structure of sentence can mean kind hearted. The slavic word for love is totally different.

@ericcloud1023 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you so much for your dedication to uploading these obscure topics that aren't adequately documented on YT, or anywhere outside of higher learning facilities, so that layman such as myself can continue learning!!! Your work is most welcome & appreciated by me and so many others

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Glad to be able to do it!

@squarepondstories3895 2 жыл бұрын

Always been very interested in the Gnostics and their gospels. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.

@bloglivethehighve 2 жыл бұрын

Catharsis is a high energy word and the story behind it is just magical ! Mesmerized of how you depict it . Thk u again , Dr. Sledge ❣️

@bloglivethehighve 2 жыл бұрын

By the end it turned in a Cathartic Hahaha ! Luv thy humor 🙏🏼

@josephflock6404 2 жыл бұрын

thanks Dr Sledge

@pablojablo6371 7 ай бұрын

I've had a kip in Monstegeur . It's a highly charged place.

@saptarshidutt7829 Жыл бұрын

Thank you, I am learning so much :)

@mau_lopez 2 жыл бұрын

Fantastic episode. Love to know about the history and the actual views of the people that were part of those ancient traditions like the Cathars and the Gnostics. Personally, in recent years I've become more and more convinced that they were on to something that really can explain what is going on in this experience we call physical reality... Thanks so much Dr. Sledge for sharing your research here!

@aneyethatcansee9045 2 жыл бұрын

A 30 minute summary of what it took me 30 years to affirm...🧐 Always excellent work 👏

@Hakaanu 2 жыл бұрын

Oh my, a Ravenloft reference! I bet you’d make a fun cleric in a group! My first D&D game in the early 90s was a Ravenloft campaign. My mother also played in the group (I was around 12). The tale end of the Satanic Panic was still passing through Georgia, so the only character she was comfortable playing was a monotheistic cleric named Jonah Barjonah, and I a human samurai.

@London-Lad 2 жыл бұрын

Love the long videos BTW. Should be a good hour in length; you exude that good academia I'm enamoured by. Keep it coming, I can't get enough.

@silentobserver4425 6 ай бұрын

Came here after watching the video from let’s talk religion! He mentioned you covered this topic so here I am!

@thecriticalscholar8680 2 жыл бұрын

Just finished watching it. THANK YOU SO MUCH Dr Sledge. Esoterica is by far my favourite channel!

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you enjoy it!

@thecriticalscholar8680 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel I did and I am eagerly awaiting the next video!

@ninetales6485 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this! I've read those scriptures but you have provided me some important context that a non-academic like me wouldn't be able to find! Once again, from this old Sorcerer's heart, thank you!

@SmallSpaceCorgi 5 ай бұрын

I'd read Jonathan Sumption's book on the Albigensian Crusade not long ago, and very much enjoyed it. Thank you for this video-- good background info on what Catharism was or might have been.

@changer1285 2 жыл бұрын

This work is such a gift! As a person born and raised Catholic, who had a crisis of faith and then subsequently decided to Reclaim "Catholic" as my strongest authentic cultural identity, its incredibly powerful to be aware of the looooong interaction between the so called "Gnostic" and "Orthodox" currents. Im sympathetic to a lot of "gnostic" thought and use it to color my deconstruction of traditional catholic theology in favor of the liberatory and mystical possibilities. Thanks again for sharing such amazing insights onto these historical processes!

@skinheadoconnor8721 Жыл бұрын

That sounds cool as hell

@MikkelAllen 2 жыл бұрын

Enoch is a homeboy. Lol.. love your work!

@EveritteBarbee 2 жыл бұрын

Phenominal content every time, Dr. Sledge!

@michaeldantepoet9863 2 жыл бұрын

Such a brilliant channel. Thanks for educating us. I've watched loads of your videos - they're great, so well researched and presented with such eloquence and with the perfect amount of humour! Love your work. Keep making more of these programs they are fabulously interesting... Blessings from the UK.

@newdawncrystal6472 Жыл бұрын

I love your sense of humor, as well as your mystical content!

@francisfischer7620 10 ай бұрын

Excellent!! So profoundly insightful! A blessing!

@laurah1020 2 жыл бұрын

Love your honesty- and professionalism. Thanks for this post! Very interesting.

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for watching!

@mistress_hook_fashion 2 жыл бұрын

this channel is BEAUTIFUL!!!!!! thank you Dr. Sledge!!!!

@LIVITYVIZION 2 жыл бұрын

Love you and the work you share ❤️💛💚🙏🏾🙏🏽🙏

@Liesl_Cigarboxguitar 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Dr Sledge! I have become very interested in the Cathars over the last couple of years. I really enjoyed your first video on the Cathars and this is a wonderful follow up. I appreciate your research on this subject, I found very little information on it when I began to research myself. Fantastic content! Nice one! 😊💜

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Many, many thanks!

@cubanavic 2 жыл бұрын

Dr. Justin, your knowledge and masterful delivery are only surpassed by your wicked awesome sense of humor (I'm from New England...lol). This episode was an answer to prayer. Thank you Brother.

@jessemiller7540 2 жыл бұрын

Wonderfully interesting and entertaining. This may be the best channel on youtube.

@mysticfalcon1 2 жыл бұрын

I do appreciate you and your time 😇🙏♥️ thanks doc sledge

@TheMurray1922 2 жыл бұрын

How interesting! I ( VERY randomly...) ended up listening to a hymn which is said to have been written by the Cathars-- and here came your video! What an absolutely mysterious, fantastic subject...

@rhymeoftheancients 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you much, Sir. I appreciate your research and wisdom.

@ashleydewing1420 2 жыл бұрын

The sass level in these episodes!! Feels like you'd enjoy r/trippinthroughtime.

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

...and you'd be right :) I mean if we can't have fun with this stuff, why even bother?

@kozmicre982 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel Id second that agreement as one refined sense of humor comedy is over half the point if its discovered and examined a little bit closer truths are stranger than fiction, Id have a blast waking on water but Id do it in the bathtub too and annoy my parents to tears and laugh head to a wave pool and watch everyone get out in mass exodus It may seem like abuse of power and God did create a duck billed platypus. A duck beaver that lays eggs mates monogamous and males have poisonous spike like barbs under their legs and is equal to a rattler bite. You can laugh, cry then laugh again that God has a massive humorous sense and gets very odd in places fun is one of the essentials if not the most looked forward to. A touch of rascality as one would salt a stew the same way for an improved flavor in life and the meal. Your videos are thoroughly enjoyed Doc laughter in my mind is still one of the very best medicines to induce. Its bliss in many ways some times the jaw drop still works with a zero filter assertive subtlety. You cover a lot of ground sir, well done and I thank you friend, Shalom!

@ericcloud1023 2 жыл бұрын

Ooooooooo a new subreddit.... devoted to a historical topic it looks like to!?!? Oh happy day!!! Lol thanks internet stranger

@mr.bulldops7692 2 жыл бұрын

No fools were suffered in the making of this video.

@TimeandRelativeDimensioninHell 2 жыл бұрын

Always a delight 🖤 thank you!

@escapematrixenterprisejacq7810 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for doing these videos on Cathars

@DaveTaylor-xy9kq 11 ай бұрын

What a Brain this guy has. He can pull out an LDS idea in the 'twinkling of an eye' and keep moving like lightening.

@joseysomemore 2 жыл бұрын

yay!! more to come. thank you thank you!

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

You bet!

@amarcadiacastillo Жыл бұрын

¡Gracias! I appreciate the effort. You are giving us a guide to follow. I love this world but as an anthropologist I know more about Mesoamerican cultures. I'm learning a lot.

@TheEsotericaChannel Жыл бұрын

Many thanks!

@little-bandit-music Жыл бұрын

Ser you discuss deeply interesting subjects

@MrTwisterband 2 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. I learned a lot. Grand so. Peace from Northern. IRELAND.

@daryllschmidt7419 3 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@anthonywall5227 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you

@disciple1119 2 жыл бұрын

Gratitude from the heart for your on perpetual! efforts

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

You're very welcome

@helenbostock2350 Жыл бұрын

You away like a light the way thank you

@dumdebadaba 8 ай бұрын

Bogomilism was Bulgarian. The Bulgarian minority in Hungary are still Bogomils. Their churches, built from the 1400s on, still have Bulgarian inscriptions, but in the Latin alphabet. These Bogomils, of course, were masquerading as run-of-the mill Catholics. They couldn't put writings in the Cyrillic alphabet anywhere near their churches.

@pakoti96 6 ай бұрын

Fascinating! Do you recall the names of such churches? I'd like to seek out some pictures.

@lacrimassenzio 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your great work, and plz make an episode on the Ginsberg's classics on Menocchio's case "the worms in the cheese" and the "beneandanti" !

@chantlive24 3 ай бұрын

Thanks

@angelmon6 Жыл бұрын

I like your quotes bro 👌🏻

@risinglogosbear1208 2 жыл бұрын

Very interesting. I would love to hear you explain the Arians one day.

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

They aren't so much esoteric as they just lost the debate. At the time Arius was quite popular and I think Athanasius was in one of his several stints of exile.

@conniestone6251 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel It would still be nice to hear your history and analysis of the Arians…. if you have time?

@mdlahey3874 2 жыл бұрын

Dear Maestro Sledge (off-topic, sorry!): This week I treated myself to a re-viewing of a Netflix series called "Requiem". I suspect you saw it long ago, but in case you haven't seen it, I believe you will find it quite enjoyable. It may not be up there with the matchless "A Dark Song", but it's a noble effort, notwithstanding the somewhat, er, equivocal ending. Blessings, and thank you once again for your excellent work. -rev. m. lahey

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the tip - I'll look into it !

@smileyface5908 2 жыл бұрын

Do you cover anything on shamanism in any countries or religions? I would also love to hear your take on eastern and spiritual/natural practice like the Yamabushi. You’ve taught me a lot. Thank you very much.

@Themobsterful 2 жыл бұрын

Very interesting

@dribble3111 3 ай бұрын

Intro needs little Ozy(crazytrain)😊 love your work Dr

@Arthur.H.Studio 2 жыл бұрын

New subscriber here.. I appreciate your style and content. I've recently embarked on a deeper dive in my faith and this is a great resource. I wonder if you have already or plan on anything showcaesing The Gospel of the Holy Twelve. ?

@Arthur.H.Studio 2 жыл бұрын

PS.. by way of the....ear hmm

@bluestar.8938 Жыл бұрын

Thank you : )

@drrbrt 2 жыл бұрын

Our beautiful gnostic ancestors.

@vincentrusso4332 Жыл бұрын

This is up there with MIT opencourseware.. phenomenal teachings with exhaustive research for $Free.99... awesome work Doc.

@michaelkelly1267 2 жыл бұрын

I was wondering how you were going to proceed with Cathar scripture after presenting the sceptical version. I get the impression the historical scholarship has basically adopted the sceptical version and moved on, but I personally still enjoy hearing older versions of historiography. They don't become less interesting for probably being wrong.

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

I'm not so sure, the traditional account is still very popular. It would be interesting to take a straw poll of medievalists and see where they land. For me, it's just easier to present the traditional account first and then proceed to put forward the skeptical camp's position. I really want to check my own biases when I make content and some topics are more challenging in that regard than others.

@DarkMoonDroid 2 жыл бұрын

I thot the debunk-o version was pretty flimsy.

@Salsmachev 2 жыл бұрын

Plus, believing in an imaginary Cathar church is hardly the weirdest thing we've seen on this channel.

@Erel0 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks again for your work on the cathars, a subject very dear to me as I am from that particular region of Occitania. And... I like Holy Blood Holy Grail :) I consider that it is fiction, but it is a great story that I read like a novel. (I'm not sure that in the fortean philosophy of the authors it is important that things are true, as long as they present an alternative.)

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

It's a great topic and glad to help to get solid, scholarly information out there in the jungle of 'alternative facts.'

@kalnieminen65 Жыл бұрын

My understanding of the origin of Cathars is that Marcion, who was the son of the Bishop of Sinope (and was also a ship builder), spread "Christianity" due to Marcion being a shipbuilder and basically sailed around the Mediterranean. At its height Marcionism was the dominant Christian sect, so much so that Rome decided enough is enough and persecuted them. Marcionites then fled east and rebranded themselves as Paulicians in the area of Armenia. The Paulicians sent missionaries to the Balkans where they were identified as Bogomils, Bogomils in turn sent out missionaries to France and Italy and those who converted were evidently the Cathars. (allegedly)

@ericsims311 2 жыл бұрын

Your dry humor cracks me up

@StoneInMySandal Жыл бұрын

Indigenous heretics is a great band name.

@helenbostock2350 2 жыл бұрын

You said star trek fan are friends. You made me cry. Its ok. People don't really have that effect on me.

@matthewlawrenson2734 Жыл бұрын

Excellent as usual. Although I would say it is... Not born through the ear but conceived through the ear. As in many Aural conceptions by angels and headdresses and veils that covered ears in respect of those traditions.

@harryhoofcloppen 7 ай бұрын

Man, I was all excited to create a new Cathar movement until I saw your subtitle about “y’all Neo-Cathars better keep the ear part” so I decided my version will merge with Douglas Adams’s Jatravartid people of Viltvodle VI who believe that the universe was sneezed out of the nose of a being called the Great Green Arkleseizure. So our eschatological text will cite “The Coming of the Great White Handkerchief” (or I guess Q-tip)

@rosegoldocean 10 ай бұрын

I have Holy Blood, Holy Grail from a second hand bookstore. I never read it, but the first four minutes sure have me feeling silly for even having curiosity towards it. I’ll probably finally start reading after this finally though.

@TheEsotericaChannel 10 ай бұрын

It's fun fiction and laughable history

@anndavejackash2984 3 ай бұрын

Adding a new comment to an old upload, because spiritual enlightenment should not be so hilariously funny. But here we are.

@shintafukuda2274 2 жыл бұрын

Dear Dr Justin Sledge, *What is the piano music used in your "intro"?* It sounds like Chopin, but... what exactly? It's very beautiful, and beautifully played anyway. I just discovered your channel, and am enjoying the heckfire out of starting to go through them all chronologically. Now I want to know all about the Cathars! You are a _superb_ communicator of this research! The Will & Arial Durant, the Joseph Campbell of the 21st Century?! Thank you so much! - Alex Anderson, in Napoli, South Italy

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

It's from Chopin's Nocturne in B-flat minor, Op. 9, No. 1 - thanks for the kind words!

@katejones1776 2 жыл бұрын

Yesss can you do one on St Cyprian

@bobmcbob9856 2 жыл бұрын

I’ve heard the Bosnian Church referred to as and connected to the Bogumils but also referred to as distinct. Could you maybe do a video or series on it at some point

@melancholica999 2 жыл бұрын

As someone who lives in Bosnia, and has at some point in my youth read a lot about the theories of the Church of Bosnia, I find Dr. Sledges (and other scholars he mentioned, who presented it) skeptical position about organized heretical church in Laguadoc as such, applicable in Bosnian case too. Individuals believing and practicing stuff probably, but a well organized church is very hard to actually prove.

@bobmcbob9856 Жыл бұрын

@@melancholica999 yeah that sounds pretty logical to me as well

@alandavid8748 2 жыл бұрын

Could someone please make a diagram showing the difference and things in common among the different gnostic schools.

@foo_tube 2 жыл бұрын

Please do a thing on the "water to wine" "miracle" and the vessels made by Hero of Alexandria.

@helenbostock2350 2 жыл бұрын

I have a friend who talks about this stuff woe wow I so happy yez happy. So one who thinks and see the poor rest. I like you because you love word I do too.

@CourtesyPhone 2 жыл бұрын

Always interesting how similar interpretations emerge independently from the gnostics to Marcion's rejection of the old testament to Cathars, to even some modern day "Christians" that dislike the old testament.

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Supersessionist theology is a helluva drug ;)

@zelenisok 2 жыл бұрын

A line of (absolute) dualism from Cerdonianism /Marcionism, through Manicheanism, Paulicianism and then Bogomilism into Catharism sounds certainly possible. I always found it strange that even though their theology concerning God is the same as in Zoroastrianism, AFAIK none of them have cosmology like in Zoroastrianism - where God creates the world and then Satan corrupts it, but have cosmology similar to those early non-dualist Gnostics, saying that Satan (or some equivalent) created the world. (Or in the case of Manicheanism having a cosmology similar to the one in Mesopotamian mythology.)

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Yep possible but it's that evidence part that's missing

@ohamatchhams 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel Ehhhh It's not even parallel to Zoroastrianism as in typical Mazdaism per-se (the ones that Sassanids believed in abslute dualism of Ahura Mazda and Ahriman), but more like of Zurvanism's dialectical dualism creations in which the original Single Supreme Being called "Zurvan" has created twin spirits from his Cosmic Womb, the twin spirits' identity being both Ahura Mazda and Ahriman which the latter comes first and edicted by Zurvan to rule The World for 9000 years and later with Ahura Mazda forever right after Ahriman's rules, this sounded like more Sethian School of Gnostic Christianity than of full blown dualism akin to Manichaeism which somehow, Mani adopted the name Zurvan, makes Zurvan being equal to Ahriman, then relegate Ahura Mazda's position further below Ahriman then proceed to produce complicated Theology of powerful Omnibenevolent but not-Omnipotent five-fold Supreme Being being in perpetual toe-to-toe with semi-eternal but fractured Five-fold Satan and proceed to have The World being created as residues from constant battles for the Realm of Light to reimprison Kingdom of Darkness while involving Yazatas, Cosmic Buddhas, Mahasattvas, Yazatas, Greco-Roman Pantheon and other beings in the elaborate Cosmology painted from Mani's Cosmology, even Sethian's dualism is only applied to have Oceans of Tehom as byproduct of shadow imitating Pleroma, certain Sethian texts deny the pre-existent of Chaos and being the first late antiquity texts which directly address refutation of Pagans' Primordial Chaos, unlike Mani which reinforces it to be pre-existent neighbouring Dark Kingdom But even so with Manichaean's hijack of the Zurvan's term for their own rebranded absolute dualism, Zurvanism is considered as "heretical" by Sassanids' authorities too, until Islam arrived in Persia and takes every Sassanid regions :>

@annalisette5897 Жыл бұрын

You did a video on the Voynich Manuscript. (Because of that, I subscribed.) Many have thought the VM is in a secret script and that it contains esoteric knowledge. I have done a lot of work on the VM and believe=> a) It was written in Eastern Europe, perhaps Serbia and Croatia areas b) I believe it is a fertility manual c) It is in no way overtly religious, though a couple drawings seem to give a nod to Christianity d) There are simple tales, some illustrated with drawings -- the naked ladies in the bath drawings -- that describe good and bad. Not good and evil. Just that some ways are bad and some are good. Your description of Cathar beliefs makes me wonder if there is a connection there. If the scribes that created the VM did have a reason to hide knowledge and it was Cathar or Bogomil knowledge.

@TheEsotericaChannel Жыл бұрын

Levitov argued this in the 80s. It isn't.

@annalisette5897 Жыл бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel Cathar connection or East European origin? I do not think it is a body of work or official documents from any sect. I do believe there are things similar to gnosticism present. Thank you.

@parchment543 2 жыл бұрын

What about a video series over the bogomils?

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Out east, they were kinda normie

@pakoti96 6 ай бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel "Kinda normie" lol! Does that mean they were similar to gnostics or to the Orthodox church? AFAIK they too saw the earthly plane of existence as purely Satanic, even rejected work because of that and often turned to begging or stealing. Maybe those are just myths.

@Kai-yc5sp 2 жыл бұрын

Bernardo Gui ??? So brilliantly portrayed by F. Murray Abraham in The Name of the Rose. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts about this film.

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Need to watch it!

@T.AzimuthSchwitters 2 жыл бұрын

I have never in all my studies found a religion which I align with as much as Catharism and the Gnostics more generally. I am proud to be one. Also I'd like to add, when the last Cathar was killed in 1321, interestingly enough he prophesized "The Cathars will return in 700 years when the laurel is green" and I discovered Catharism a few months ago in 2021, exactly 700 years after the prophesy, almost to the exact date.

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Can you provide me the actual historical text in which this "prophecy" was first uttered?

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

@@mutabore7 I've never actually seen a real historical source for this quote - I'm fairly confident it's made up.

@mcotter12 2 жыл бұрын

Do you know of any connection between the Leys d'Amor and Cathars? Its a book on poetry that came out of the same reason as the Cathars a few decades after the albeginsian crusade. Given the role played by poetry and rules for poetry in transgressions against the catholic hegemony I figured that the Laws of Love might have a cathari or gnostic slant, but there are no english translations that I know of.

@fatalinsomn1a182 2 жыл бұрын

I think, It was mostly an oral tradition, kind of like the mystery religions of Greece and Egypt. The knowledge was received through prayer.

@indigrogers8421 2 жыл бұрын

Do you post reading lists with every presentation?

@johnmcgrath6192 2 жыл бұрын

The RC Dominican religious order, founded to combat the Cathars, violated their own theology on the Sacrament of Confession. They would hear former (or forced) Cathar confessions, with anything confessed to be held in strict confidence under the sacred "Seal of Confession." Instead the Dominicans had hidden scribes wrote down the confessions and used the information against the confessor and the confessor's associates.

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Can you offer a historical source documenting this ?

@star_punk-zero8049 2 жыл бұрын

Fascinating episode as always Dr. Sledge, it is a shame that the Bogomils and the supposed Cathars abandoned the infancy narrative found in the ascension of Isiah. I mean what's the point of being a heretic if you don't get a good infancy gospel out of it 😛 Also whatever happened to the Bogomils? Was a crusade launched against them or did they die out another way?

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

They assimilated into the Roman church by the mid 17th century - no inquisition required

@conniestone6251 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel perhaps they also “absorbed” any remaining Cathars?

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

@@conniestone6251 probably if they existed as such

@star_punk-zero8049 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel Thank you for answering, Dr. Sledge.

@10Ammar 2 жыл бұрын

Those that survived later in Bosnia became Dervishes, Franciscans etc. They loved their land regardless of which religion.

@eomguel9017 2 жыл бұрын

After watching this and the previous video on Catharism, I confess that I'm still baffled by the skeptical camp, but not in the way you may think. I'm baffled because it seems to me that they argue against a smokescreen. They are skeptical of the existence of "an organised and hierarchical Cathar anti-Church," yet since I first began learning about Catharism, the first thing I learnt was that Catharism is a construct or a broad category referring to a diffuse religious movement characterised by the rejection of Catholic authority, sacraments and doctrine, proposing instead a dualistic, Gnostic-like (material vs spiritual realms) doctrine of salvation based primarily (although with marked internal diversity of ideas and tolerance thereof) on the New Testament. As far as I know, scholars on medieval heresies have for the most part recognised from the beginning that the supposed organised anti-Church existed solely in the minds of inquisitors, and that idea was further popularised by non-academic authors (novelists and such). From a scholar view point, however, the consensus has always been "skeptical." That's why I'm skeptical of the skeptical camp. I mean, is it necessary to label it such if one is skeptical of something no one is claiming?

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Barber and Lambert, the two major anglophone traditionalists, aren't at all skeptical of the counter church position. French scholars are very similar. They literally have chapters on 'church hierarchy' etc. Schmidt certainty assumes the counter-church narrative.

@paulshaddix5290 2 жыл бұрын

it has been wonderful listening to your posts....have Black eyed peas on new years for good luck...live long and prosper..to your , your partners and the kiddos......Selah ..pause and reflect...

@London-Lad 2 жыл бұрын

You need a podcast! I love falling asleep to your videos but I don't pay for KZfaq so can't play you on lockscreen 😔

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Mayhaps!

@s0renK 2 жыл бұрын

I don't have a subscription either. My solution is to play videos through a browser like Firefox with ad block, then dim the screen all way the way down and place the phone screen down on my night stand or on my bed.

@DylanBlackthorn Жыл бұрын

That would be most excellent

@GeraldM_inNC 2 жыл бұрын

I would be interested in whether you've looked into the famous "Rohonc Codex". I believe it is an apocryphal gospel because of the nature of the illustrations, and probably an heretical one which would account for why the text is in cypher. I think it must have been the gospel used by a heretical medieval sect in secret. That would seem to be up your line.

@lauraitalia1334 9 ай бұрын

The cathars were found Also in other part of Italy,even here in Florence, Tuscany,Just under a different denomination

@mandys1505 2 жыл бұрын

Can you do an episode on the Troubadours? :)

@mandys1505 2 жыл бұрын

such as , Francois Villon the outlaw poet

@mandys1505 2 жыл бұрын

i was listening to a terence mckenna speech , and he mentioned the sufi origin of the romantic love of the troubadours, inspired by the indian named Chaitanya- that ecstacy could be attained bt singing and dancing on street corners.... and this was all at the same time as the Cathars. He also said that the Cathars may have been in the cult of Isis.....wow.

@evans808274mc9la 2 жыл бұрын

Very nice. Hey Justin, would you ever consider combining patreons with other channels like Dan attrell for instance and do a combined subscription? I'd pay 40 buck's a month to get a few more people on the donation list. I don't think I could afford to patronise all of them though. Just a thought

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks - it's an interesting idea and I don't know of anyone really doing anything like that. Something to think about.

@ericupchurch2967 2 жыл бұрын

1321 Cathars - French and Italy small communities.

@jojones4685 2 жыл бұрын

Both you and ReligionForBreakfast using El Greco paintings now

@Babylon2060 2 жыл бұрын

I'm a Rosicrucian Gnostic, it's common for us gypsies to practice hermeticsm and Gnosticism.

@flowerpt Жыл бұрын

This obsession with rhe demiurge seems like it would inevitably lead to epistimological catastrophy. Since the historical Kathars seemed to prosper before the Army of Love arrived, I wonder how pervasive that was.

@razonyespiritu 2 жыл бұрын

they had true sense of spirituality

@Pootycat8359 Жыл бұрын

When someone asks me what my religion is, I usually say I'm a "Christian-Buddhist-Witch." After viewing this video, I think I'm something of a Cathar, too.

@m.scottmcgahan9900 5 ай бұрын

The thing about Christ being born through the ear of the angel Mary made a line from an Iggy Pop song pop into my head: "Well, I'm just a modern guy -- Of course I've had it in the ear before..." 🤣🤣🤣

@TomRyanMKE 2 жыл бұрын

It took me a minute to figure out you were saying “dualists” and not “duellists.”

@TheTurkey79 2 жыл бұрын

Or even Juulists xD

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Like Harvey Keitel?

@TomRyanMKE 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel And Keith Carradine. Exactly.

@changer1285 2 жыл бұрын

Wait, 27:09 the Apostle paul is associated with the beloved desciple in this text that bears the name of John?

@TheEsotericaChannel 2 жыл бұрын

Nah it's John still

@ssugie Жыл бұрын

Am I actually loosing my mind or was there an analysis on this channel about The Two Principles. I have vivid memories of watching Dr Sledge explain it, I even remember some of the quotes from the video

@TheEsotericaChannel Жыл бұрын

Not yet but eventually

@ssugie Жыл бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel odd. I could've sworn you already made a video in it lol

@TheEsotericaChannel Жыл бұрын

Nope, not yet but high on the list

@jasonkennedy9143 Жыл бұрын

@@TheEsotericaChannel anxiously waiting for it! Please explain the skeptic idea of where it came from and why it was written