mojo highjacks the fundamentals of physics by giving electrons monster energy, making them able to speed up how much clock cycles they can do per second without heating up as much. it's complicated you wouldn't get it. Meanwhile C and C++ instead of using hydrolyctic electron excitation, they're still just generating raw instructions... so arcane... sigh

I think it’s based of the fact that mojo is capable of utilizing parallel hardware like GPUs and TPUs for certain tasks. I suppose it’s similar to claiming that CUDA/OpenCl are faster than C

me when mojo for loop be 50x slower than c

I think optimized C is 45,000 times faster than anyform of Python

It is, for that specific test case.

And this is the second

True The benchmark has a lot of flaws

And autoloading, JIT, Opcache configuration. Besides, frankenphp 1.0 was released a few days ago, would be interesting to try it.

But... but it's fun to make fun of PHP. Yeah, there's far too many people that just don't know better.

That's always the case with PHP tests isn't it, they basically rig them. Techempower composite score is the only score i trust.

⁠@@neptronixSwoole sits at no. 33 on the latest Techempower composite scores. There’s nothing rigged about it. It’s very, very fast. Frameworks like Hyperf that are built around it can handle way more requests/sec than Node.

Still, in the long run I am hoping for Rust/WASM to be able to have full access to the browsers DOM without the need for JavaScript. That would change everything.

True. PHP truly evolves in a way that boosts businesses a lot. Now, you can do anything in PHP except low-level stuff, but for low-level, you choose C or Rust.

Yea me too, but is really impossible to be faster than go. It really improved the performance no doubt, but not that way.

Always has been

just a dream 🤭

@@0.Maiden A fever dream.

Who cares😂

And javascript is 20x faster than typescript (people quoting that research paper always makes me chuckle)

And the most important thing to build performant backend systems is, monitoring or utilizing APMs like DataDog and NewRelic.

For a lot of companies, poor database design and maintenance is a major issue. I was brought in to one company and I asked if there were any DBAs and was told we used to have DBAs, but not now. The dev database server was running out of disk space so a ticket was put in to double the diskspace. I looked a the database and just ran a script to shrink the logs and recovered 75% of the existing disk space. I am not a DBA, but as a database developer I have had to perform more DBA tasks in the last few years because companies decided they didn't need DBAs they had full stack engineers.

Optane says hello. Sad intel canned it. Memory prices fell too much for it to be viable.

Maybe, but wouldn't HDD be worse still? A lot of fat frameworks and CMSes and PHP projects not optimized/compiled/cached/whatever, have a ton of file reads, which would be much slower than DB.

I had a record with Go 600k RQPS

same thing happens to a lot of langs, Python always tries to be as fast as C, by using libs written in C. Is a common thing to do.

@@mvargasmoran Basically all high level languages reach those benchmarks by using low-level libraries under the hood.

You'll be surprised to know that most of Node's runtime is also written in C++.

I mean PHP is essentially bindings for C and it's libraries. It's always been capable of being fastafbois. You'd obviously never use a PHP based JSON parser in PHP when you can use the native functions to hand that work to C. I think this is a more realistic benchmark than say, arithmetic in a tight loop.

fare/unfare, lol, who cares ? you can do it faster. period. and that most high level langs use C/C++ under the hood (including JS) everybody has already told you above.

Apache mod is dead, nobody uses it these days

@@aragnophy Haha, good one. I think noone should use it anymore, but I definitely saw it being used in prod. Nobody is stopping one from setting it up today with modern PHP, so I think enough ppl will still set it up, even though they should use php-fpm instead.

PHPagen

go PHP()

PHP is king. No doubt about it.

"PHP is faster than Go!" "Cool! How did you do it?" "...Wrapped it in go..."

That's true if you use Roadrunner, if you use Swoole it's just PHP. Nonetheless it's a great alternative if you need the extra performance.

​@@enkiimuto1041 Dude, do you understand that power to use powers of other powers? That basically neglects the need for the usage of any other language except if you want to go low-level. You have amazing developer experience, and all stuff is ready in PHP/Laravel & PHP can use extensions like Swoole or Parallel or even use Go capabilities while Go can't use the capabilities of PHP!

We use Swoole in production and have been for quite awhile now on an API that serves 500 -> 2000 heavy, requests per second. Took a little bit of configuration, and it is important to understand that your app will live in memory, but it’s been wonderful.

I'm looking forward

I'm working on a computationally hyperefficient framework for PHP and we notice that laravel and symfony are 5x slower at almost everything. Yeah a chunky framework is a huge tax on PHP, raw PHP is really fast considering it's a dynamic typed language.

@@neptronix Yep, PHP is fast enough for most use cases. Just don't use ORM, but you shouldn't be using ORM with any language.

It is. But why would you want to use PHP, which is still slower than something else and not necessarily harder to use? Also, PHP consumes a lot of memory per request and actually that's a bigger issue.

@@AllanSavolainen Yep, i run an extremely lightweight stack that's about 5x faster than laravel, i'm with you on not being a bloat enjoyer

​@@mdbk2 I use it because: 1) It's extremely fast. 3 times faster than node when used with openswoole ( source: techempower composite benchmarks ). This is amazing considering it's a simplified and dynamic typed language. This is because it's a thinner layer on top of C than most languages are today. 2) It's extremely quick to work in because it simplifies coding... at the same time it doesn't limit you to do crazy shit if needed. Best of both worlds. 3) Other languages are more of a pain in the ass due to lower convenience + longer code, or are a tad easier but dramatically slower ( meaning you will spend more time optimizing and go negative on your productivity gains ), PHP hits a great sweet spot for me of short code and fast code. 4) Much like Rasmus Lerdorf himself, i am simply an impatient programmer. My PHP scripts take less than a megabyte per instantiation on average, i personally don't feel like that is too much.

Swoole/OpenSwoole hooks into all the *EXISTING* I/O functions of PHP making them asynchronous

PHP has a JIT, but even then Go is still vastly superior

@@LtdJorge Isn't Go typed, thus vastly inferior to PHP?

​@@AllanSavolainenwe have type hinting in php 8 and you can enforce types at run time

​@@AllanSavolainentypes are inferior? 😂

@@ea_naseer yeah, fortunately they are optional, thus not making PHP inferior :)

Swoole/OpenSwoole hooks into all synchronous I/O functions of PHP and makes them asynchronous automatically - This means that the code still looks synchronous (except the fact that the synchronous code is wrapped in coroutines). OpenSwoole/Swoole does the same for most PHP extensions

Goroutines use parallelism if you have multiple cores available

The first php exmaple is using a dev server (not meant to be performant). OpenSwoole is written in C, so it isnt actual php. The NodeJS example uses express, one of the slowest libraries, and the with Golang example I dont have idea, but it seems like a bad implementation or some weird scenario And the most important thing is that he ran the benchmarks locally with an unknown version of php, an unknown version of nodejs, an unknown version of go and an unknown ENVIRONMENT A lot of things could go wild testing locally

@@matteac_rs "OpenSwoole is written in C, so isn't actual php". I'm sorry but this is just nonsense. Even go is written in C.

@@forevernoob97 and JavaScript is C++

@@forevernoob97Go is not written in C. Go compiles directly to machine code.

Most of use bare metal senior guys don't use node as web apps. We only use nodejs for the css and js development. I didn't know about pm2. I would use a top, htop, [-SIG trap], daemon tools, and other unix scripts instead of a process manager. [ pm2 ] reminds me of what J2EE used to do and that experience was horrible. I guess I learn something everyday.

@@complexity5545 In that case, PM2 is what you want 😉 It makes Nodejs just like any other unix server and feels natural in such an environment.

Aaron Francis

Because without Swoole, PHP executes the entire script from scratch with each request. With Swoole it works more like a Node or Go server, where only the handler is executed, but the rest of the application remains in memory.

The first example didn’t use a real web server, but phps built in dev server, which can’t handle multiple requests at a time. They should have used Apache or nginx+ php-fpm

@@mdbk2 yeah but if the server is then just your php process long running, yes there are some opportunities for optimization there, but I am not convinced these numbers mean anything at all unless you compare with a typical server used with php. There could also be some speed advantage to just giving each request its own blocking php process.

We shall not falter