Can't agree more ❤

Waaaa you nailed it

What’s more accurate than the word accurate? This comment! Hahahaha

Meanwhile Dino is the scientist, Jeonghan is psychologist, DK illogical humanist Hoshi: horanghae

Yesss

technically he's correct 😂

@@SleepIntoTheDiamondLife he really isn’t lol unregistered person may not be a citizen, but it doesn’t revolve their being as a human. and even absence of registration goes not mean that laws don’t apply to particular person

@@shpeps1k but according to law you need certain proof to let everyone know that you exist in this society as a human hence you need to register and have a residence ,cause our life is becoming so documented nowadays

😅

​@@Donkatsu7 tanong mo kay Mayor Guo na may birth certificate 😂

I doubt dude even cared for his screentime hahah

He used all his energy to scattering in previous episode 😂❤

▲🐽

THAT'S ME IN MY COLLEGE ERA LOL

It’s cause Coups has perpetua anger issues so you can be sure he WOULD be angry 😂😂

He is good at it

fr

Haha ikr, the vice leader was doing his job well, even though they were becoming chaotic at some point LoL.

Vice vice leader was radio silent🤣

the struggle iz real hahaha

Jeonghan just let out his inner thought when no one was listening to him 🤣

„Oh I really? I thought it was a crime“ What my sarcastic-ass would have responded💀

It definitely is 🥲

​@@moriartylordofcrimelmao

Man that was dope

Lmao me too as soci student! I really liked Hao's response and Vernon's towards the end.

And here me as a total T and bio student i was literally shouting and debating when hao and Vernon was talking 😭... i mean if we humanifies pinocchio how does a doctor can oparare on a pinochhio😭

@@jays3202 I agree with you 😭

OMG ME TOO! Me and my sociology student ass got so interested and involved in this that I scream in agreement with Vernon in the end that I even wake up my cat lol

Omg, same!

HAHAHAHAH

Ha

frfr hahahaha

frrrr

Fr😂😂😂

The funny thing is, they are on the same side 🤣

that's his role in gose. Whether it's debate night or any content, dissing seventeen and questioning PDnims and carats😂😂😂

Timestamp: 4:38

인정 너무 논리적이라 놀람

Always minghao with the legendary diss lines 😂

Ooo

like he was so fine this episode, i agreed with every single thing he said

not only his iconic line, his whole thought process and rationale was so valid imo! i’m on the murder team because of him

Agree❤

but you have to rely on existing law in this situation, there is no precedent that will help pinocchio in this scenario though

Saaaaaaaaameeee !!

But tbh his points are on point and made most sense , for example if u kill remy from Ratatouille it doesn't count as murder even in that universe as we do see many de** rats showcased . Another good point he made was that they need to be human "homo sapiens" with 7 senses and made of live cells and water not of dried parenchyma . So even if he does have a life force he would NOT be murdered but still vandalism isn't the right term either. So yeah 😄👍😅🎉

@@ARANDOMPERSONONTHENET can’t comment on ratatouille cause i can’t remember the story line already but for the second point, i guess it depends on how humans are viewed. humans are humans with laws made for humans because of how greatly humans have evolved and in pinocchio’s case, he was highly similar to a human with real individual thoughts and emotions (and became a human at the end) so imo pinocchio would be considered a human with rights in the pinocchio world so it’s a different and wider perspective of views of fiction (iykwim) it’s like what makes humans human? is it just because we are made the same in this world? but overall it’s a fun and lighthearted discussion in the ep hahahah!

I stand for Jun too. It was not a murder. Even you will watch the pinocchio when the he was hurt bcs of people, let say it was a sin but not murder bcs like what Jun said he is a puppet even he is talking or can feel emotion he is not Human he is made in wood that gifted to talk.

@@user-ig2xl5td7l couldn’t understand some part but i could add some on! so a sin is a religious concept and you mentioned that pinocchio is gifted to talk - so who gifted the gift and if it was gifted, why is it a sin when a sin is an offense against the religious law and what did pinocchio do? so imo the concept of sin can’t really be applied here. pinocchio was able to talk and feel as an individual which is already what makes humans human. of course you can’t use the common world’s logic to look at pinocchio since it’s fictional and definitely non-existent in real life so when you’re in the fictional world, pinocchio is already equivalent to a human and would’ve been a norm (the same as the current humans in real world) and thus the argument for a murder~

But his rebuttal came out without thinking.

Trueeeeee

I think Woozi too.

​@@katrinatunacao2393he romanticised the topic and all of them stuck to the logic till the end😂😂😂

woozi got me and i feel like because of woozi's reasoning, vernon's reasoning became much firmer because they agree with each other

Jun does well in debate episode but here i think he himself got confused and the other team was quite strong

For real

Well, introvert thingz ✨

real 😭

this episode made me the urge to never sit with wonwoo bc ik i'm gonna get MAD

The fact that they are the INXJ line 🙌

Me too omg I agree the most with them

Sameee

They literally have to force him to lift his hand 😂😂😂❤️❤️❤️

QT

F 0% hahahahaha

He won't back down, he's very stubborn as they said before 😂

I laughed at 0%F 😂

SVT x Staff is the best thing to happen to us

Me too TT

I AGREE VERNON IS SO GOOD AT THIS

Kidney Function Is Not A Right It's A Privilege -A wise man

There’s this one question on tiktok that asked who will I choose to invite in 17 if I have 1 extra ticket for a movie. I chose Vernon, cause I know he’s someone I could argue with or talked about the movie after watching (and he do love movies) I see him as someone whose way of thinking is so broad? I mean he loves to considerate things and view it in a different perspective. Don’t get me wrong about the other members they are all interesting to talk too (for real real) but I think when it comes to this kind of discussions (for me) especially Hanie, Coups, Wonu, Kwanie, Hao, Jun they will beat me dead for a single argument 😂 Hoshi, DK, and Dino will stress me out with their noisiness 😭😂 On the other hand I’ll add Josh, Woozi and Migyu on Vernons line. With serious matters it’s hard to choose, I love to talk with any one of them, I would def learn many things especially from Hao he will be my reality checker. Hahahaha (This came out long than I expected 😅)

But jun is stating a fact too. 😂 They all have a point, to the point that you are watching so serious to them 😂

@@user-ig2xl5td7l yes however, the accident analogy is something a lot of philosophy debates have been using to argue at what point would you stop considering someone human? If they become all prosthetics at some point, at what point would you stop seeing them as human? So when he brought it up, I was impressed but I expect Hao to be into philosophy or think like that in a very logical and critical manner.

@@user-ig2xl5td7l it’s a fact in the current real world but since pinocchio is essential a fictional character, the current laws would not have been sufficient in pinocchio’s case. that’s why minghao started the argument on how humans are defined and especially because humans were the ones to give the definition as well as create laws surrounding humans as the highest evolution of species. however, in the case of pinocchio’s existence, the definition of human would have to be looked into and thus questioning to what extent humans need to be like “humans” to be considered a human.

@@hafsahhaq8371 if human became something like that they still human cuz they already were once human but pinocchio is different there is also no standard about they need to only consider it in pinocchio's story so they can apporach it in both the story and in realistic way pinocchio is a wooden doll with a abilities of human like but its still a doll and pet just like human with the abilities of robot like but they still are human also if pinocchio lie his nose became longer which means he can't lie we human lie and we can't tell if someone is lying or not unless its someone we truly know even in that case its hard for us human to indicate if someone is truly lying or not but with pinocchio whenever he lie we can tell he is lying by looking at his nose that strongly indicate pinocchio is a doll which is designed to tell lie and show he is lying by his nose became longer just like those dolls designed to speak when we press them. if we say every thing that have life force is a murder then why human killing animals and plants isnt considered murder? but again people protest and do all sort of thing for cats and dogs getting killed by human but they dont do that for ants, incets, fly, plants cuz we human only consider something or someone getting killed is bad and murder if it is smth we treasure. just like jun team said they feel upset and sad we feel sad and bad when we kill fly and ants but we don't considered it a murder if it were so we all human should be in jail. the law is only made by human and for human we don't put lions for killing its prey we don't put dolphin for raping its females.they all have life force but they live in their own society so we can't interrupt them .we would only made the law for them if they are living in the same society as us working and doing everything the same as us. we would made a law for pinocchio too if there are too many dolls like pinocchio appeared and live like as but since this debate have no standard they should be tie. if its have the standard to consider it in current reality way jun team would win if its in romantic way looking forward the future to make a new law for pinocchio minhao team win

@@hafsahhaq8371 i can't believe we're having this type of content and topic after Going Rangers LMAO the contrast 😂

REALNESS! AND JUNHUI IS UNDENIABLY GREAT AT MAKING POINTS THAT MAKES SENSE (ijbol those three def stood out to me)

Agree! it was when he did that, that the room got more arguments to talk about!

This 💯

agreed 💯

YA THIS IS WHT IM THINKING ABOUT

He just like me fr

크으 이 댓 좋다

윤리 < 이거 진짜 맞는 것 같아요

제가 고딩시절에 대형마트 주말 의무 휴일 지정에대해 찬반 토론을 했었었는데요. 한명도 빠짐없이 대형마트 의무휴일 반대의견으로써 열심히 숫자 놀음을 하고 있을때, 선생님께서 윤리적인 문제를 꺼내 드시더라고요. "그러면 시장상인은 이익이 안되기 때문에 그대로 도태되어야 하는가? 그게 정부가 사회적 약자들에게 취해야하는 태도인가? 본인이 그 시장상인이라면 가만히 고개를 끄덕이고만 있을 것인가? 정부는 절대 시장에 개입해서는 안되는가? " 라는 윤리적이고 공동체주의 라고 볼 수 있는 물음을 주셨었는데요. 그때 저 포함 모든 학생들이 입을 다물었고, 그때 선생님께서는 토론에서 이성적 판단만 중요하다고 착오를 일으킬 수 있다. "인간은 살아가며 감정과 윤리가 꼭 필요한 사항이다." 라고 말씀하신게 이 토론을 통해서 생각났네요.

이 댓글도 진짜 잘 집어주신 것 같아요 낭만이라는 어휘때문에 감성적으로 보여서 상대편도 ‘낭만으로 다가간다고..?‘라고 하는데 사실상 윤리죠... 이건 인간으로서 꼭 필요한거고 윤리 도덕 도의적인 것 그리고 어쩌면 정말 낭만까지도요....

Seriously I was so amazed nd impressed by Vernon in this ep although he is a very thoughtful person like for every hypothetical situation mentioned by opposite party I was waiting for his nd also minghao's pov

Of what country? 😆

@@katherynnephrite5115the world !!!

LET HIM COOK!!!

As a Law student, I CHEERED!

omg yes please

Same for me, that THE8 stood out. I also liked it when he simply states that the scenarios created by the other side stray away from the subject in question (Pinocchio). The other team can make comparisons of Pinocchio to machines or a rock, but the topic in question is Pinocchio, its’ own case.

same for me! i really relate to and understand minghao’s points which really pulled me to the murder team! i love the point about pinocchio’s life force, the lying point and the fact that laws are imperfect and would be updated as needed if pinocchio exists in the real world - he reminds me of my philosophy class 😂

I was thinking the exact same thing, Hao has some really articluate thoughts

Minghao is one of the strongest players in all the debate episodes along with Jun

Minghao and Vernon really stood out for me in this episode. And Vernon was the one who made the final argument which closed the case, a really strong argument. Felt like a court case with real lawyers :) Kudos to Gose team, can`t wait for next week`s topic :)

"we hear the minority too. But we just hear them"😂🤣

ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ

it's cute to think that when the first time jeonghan posted about doljjong, the members are being "????" in the comment but still play along with it. After that its just grew naturally on them like a friend's usual endearing pet 😂😭

I was so relieved

It's okay...I will burn for Seungkwan 😂.

Yeah that's true

It really was the best!! Plus, we got some insight on their football game ❤😂

it's funny how seungkwan was more upset over jun sulking than jun himself lol

IKRR! I replayed that part MANY times. Boo was sooo cutee 🥹💜

It's funnier that who made Jun sulky is Mingyu more than Seungkwan.

But the question itself is also talking about human..."if you kill".....since the question is set inside the movie....for anyone to kill pinnochio in the movie would be called murderer...so it is murder.

But this is questionable. If someone kills a dog, you don't call it vandalism 🤷🏻‍♀️

so killing an animal is not murder?

​@@Carla-qc7blYes, but animals are not made of wood by humans

Yeah that was a smart argument to say in Korean, doesn’t really make a good argument in English for example or my native language polish and probably many other To me it basically it comes down to what does “human” mean - is it the body or the mind that matters more?

frfr literally swayed me so fast

Yupp i love this, they can discuss with a logic reason and clear stuctural pattern. They talk with fact and not bring emotion

not really. i thought the same too, but at the last voting, he switched to the other side. you can see him raising his hand belatedly. probably thought if he couldn't beat them, might as well just join them. 😂

​@@kitsidney5906everyone need to be agree on one side for them to continue to the next topic. I think he kinda doesn't have a choice being the only one on the opposite side.

Yeah! Lyk at the end he didn't had a choice if not he wouldn't have changed I think soo..

​@@kitsidney5906 he probably just raised his hand bc he was the only one that didn't and just wanted it to end peacefully😂😭

@@kitsidney5906the fact that he raised his hand late is what makes op's point tho lolol

Dino was very good too along with them

Ya that law aren't already existed in the first place but made nd updated with human experiences nd precedents It was a very good point🤌

The Vice leader is struggling 😅

😂😂poor vice leader

Meanwhile the vice vice leader being there just for attendance😅

Your thoughts are very well written, I liked that you pointed out we omit emotions when making law and the examples you've given. it sincerely gave me a new perspective to be pondering about.

@@syahmnrain8283 oh that's so sweet of you! thank you so much! this is a good dialogue between fans and im glad they did this!

I love version sm I need to kiss his brain fr! "It shouldn't stop at just feeling regrettable" is so important, such a simple statement but could change worlds! Also yes, how could they forget that the main prerogative for changing laws has been driven by emotions!

댓글이 너무 좋아요,, 그 가수에 그 팬이라고 말씀 너무 잘하심... 제 마음을 대변해주신 것 같아요🥺

에에올 리뷰때도 그렇고 나나투어에서 물음표살인마 였던것도 그렇고 끝없이 탐구하는 사람 같음,, 상식적인것도 무언가 하나의 주제를 가지고 이유와 원리를 생각해내는게 정말 멋있네,,

아 멋지다... 이 주제 정말 좋음

I think if vernon is not an idol,maybe he will be a judge

he's such a well thought man with great mind and heart. I admire him!

ㅋㅋㅋㅋ 마지막 지쳐서 퇴근하고싶은듯

Agreed

Джун тоже

Yeahh same like junhui🤣🤣

댓글 다 받는게 원우 정한이랑 우지 버논 에잇 민규가 극명하게 갈리는건 진짜 철저하게 법적으로 본 멤버들 (이해는 하나 현행법 상 이유)이랑 피노키오라는 존재가 있을 수 있는 세상에서 바라본 멤버들이랑은 애초에 받아 들여지는게 달라질 수 밖에 없게 명제를 깔아놔서 ㅠ 그래도 낭만으로 가느냐 현실적으로 가느냐 극명하게 갈린거 같아요 ㅠ

최버논 입덕 영상 인정… 아이돌 자컨보고 반성까지 하게 됐음

이 댓글이 엄청 올라갔으면 좋겠다..

저도 보면서 너무 이성적, 감성적으로 나누어서 가니까 좀 답답했는데 버논이 딱 자신은 낭만적이서 살인쪽인게 아니다라고 딱 말해줘서 속이 편안…^^ 솔직히 말하면 이 영상으로 최애 버논이로 바뀔 수도 있을 것 같아요ㅋㅋ 솔직히 아이돌들의 이런 깊은 생각, 사상을 볼 수 있는 기회가 많이 없는데 세븐틴은 이런 콘텐츠가 있어서 더 좋은 것 같아요:)

맞아요 논제 자체의 오류가 커서 토론 자체의 성립이 불가하죠 어떤 질문을 하고자 한 것인지는 전달이 되었지만 논제의 오류에 의해 감성과 이성의 대립으로밖에 의견이 갈릴 수 없는 상황으로 보여요 또 버논의 입장은 정말 인상적이었습니다 이성적인 것을 냉철함, 냉정함과 비슷하게 여기는 사람들이 많지만, 이성적인 사람 중에서는 사회의 어떤 존재도 부당함을 겪어서는 안 된다는 공정한 의식을 가진 사람들이 있죠 이런 사람들은 냉정하게 본인만 생각하는 것이 아니라 감정에 휘둘리지 않으면서도 모두가 이익을 얻을 수 있고 누구도 소외되지 않는 세상을 만들기 위해 노력합니다 단순한 슬픔, 동정 때문이 아니라 그것이 진정으로 옳은 길이기 때문에요 저 역시 토론을 보면서 버논과 같은 입장을 가지고 있었지만 이것을 표현할 정확하고 분명한 말이 생각나지 않았는데, 막힘없이 본인의 의견을 분명하고 치우치지 않은 말로 확실하게 피력하는 능력도 정말 멋있게 느껴졌습니다

그치 얼마나 다정한 사람들인지 신기해

ㄹㅇ 13명에 데뷔 9년째인데 탈퇴한 멤버 1명도 없음

@@user-nw8bw3fw1f 멋지다 진짜.... 불화설도 안났던것 같은데

역시 에에올. 보이... 품행보이.. 멋져.

그니까요

최버논.... 진짜 논리나잇 같은 토론 할때마다 느끼는건데 진짜 똑똑함... 가치관도 너무 바르고.. 멋있음

@@개구리의봄precisely

뭔가 깊이 생각하는 사람 같아서 좋음