Good Omens Good - Bad Theology Bad

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Speak Life

Speak Life

5 жыл бұрын

#GoodOmens
A Christian group has petitioned Netflix to pull Good Omens from its streaming service, despite the fact its actually on Amazon Prime. Here Christian minister, Glen Scrivener, responds to the controversy and its Christians themselves that are in for criticism.
Good Omens portrays a ridiculous picture of heaven and hell, largely because too many Christians have proclaimed a ridiculous picture of heaven and hell. In this video we see that heaven does not fight hell to destroy the world. Heaven triumphs over hell to save the earth. THAT’s a good story.
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Пікірлер: 66
@erraticonteuse
@erraticonteuse 5 жыл бұрын
In their other books, Gaiman and Pratchett both reject the idea of Death as an enemy, both of them wrote versions of Death that are *beloved* by fans, so it's not surprising that Good Omens is also uninterested in defeating Death.
@samuelbarber4154
@samuelbarber4154 5 жыл бұрын
LexiDizzle Death, to me, isn't even an evil spirit, he's more of s tour guide who brings you to Heaven or Hell to be honest. Anyone who's watched Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey knows that Death can even be really funny.
@samuelbarber4154
@samuelbarber4154 5 жыл бұрын
"What did he say?" "Be kind to each other." "Yep, that'll get these guys going."
@a.z.fellco.1704
@a.z.fellco.1704 4 жыл бұрын
Samuel Barber Yup.
@samuelbarber4154
@samuelbarber4154 5 жыл бұрын
In the eyes of Gaiman and Pratchett, the Christian faith is more of a myth to be adapted, like, say, the Greek myths.
@robinlillian9471
@robinlillian9471 4 жыл бұрын
There are piles of examples of adaptations of myths & religious themes in fantasy literature. There are also many different versions of Christianity in the real world. One person's myth is another's religion. Religion/myth is constantly being adapted to people's needs & wishes. Attempts at censorship & banning stories you don't like is evil, futile, and a general waste of time. It just makes you & your organization look bad.
@SusanLynn656
@SusanLynn656 8 ай бұрын
Open your eyes @samuelbarber4154 and stop being so judgmental. Your Christianity is disempowering and suffocating.
@pettrovich
@pettrovich 5 жыл бұрын
Very well said. This is a comedy, based on a book by two very well renowned fantasy authors. The authors don't expect anyone, christian or not, to think the way the story is portrayed is not ridiculous. This is not meant to be an exposé on religious beliefs. And about the "Earth is not going to end itself" line, I think it's meant as a joke, as it is shown very clearly throughout the series, Gabriel is extremely out of touch and oblivious to anything happening on Earth, and human behaviour in general. So to him, it's obvious that Earth is not going to end itself, because he doesn´t know humans.
@robinlillian9471
@robinlillian9471 4 жыл бұрын
Religious extremists are notoriously unable to take a joke.
@j_bel
@j_bel 3 жыл бұрын
It is serious comedy, if you're willing to look beneath the jokes. It is hilariously funny, but also lets you think (if you're a little bit curious) further. Like why some people claim to know what "god" wants, who he is or even if he is a he at all. So I don't completely agree with your proclamation that it is ridiculous. But of course that's just what I took away from the book and series.
@Ryan78336
@Ryan78336 4 жыл бұрын
If I am to spend eternity somewhere, neither heaven or hell would be good options. I’d much rather spend eternity on earth. With humanity.
@SpeakLifeMedia
@SpeakLifeMedia 4 жыл бұрын
That's actually what God prefers too. The goal of Christianity is not heaven - heaven's a waiting area (a very glorious, wonderful waiting area, but a waiting area nonetheless). The goal of all things is when heaven moves to earth (Revelation 22).
@Laura-rp9rt
@Laura-rp9rt 5 жыл бұрын
I suspect if you sought Neil Gaiman out on Twitter or on his website, he would respond to your questions. He expressed disappointment in a very shallow dismissive review one supposed religious/literature scholar gave the series. For what it's worth, the book goes into greater discussion of the reasons behind Adam and the Them's defeat of the Four Horsemen. (BTW, according to the book, Pestilence retired in 1936, “muttering about penicillin," and Pollution took over.) My takeaway from the series was that God's plan is ineffable and people like to pretend that they know what God believes or wants and are set on imposing their fundamentalist beliefs on others to the detriment of all (beautifully illustrated by the petitioners at issue.) This sometimes includes going to war over these beliefs. * Also, that line delivered by Pepper as she defeats War is a line from a song by Neil's friend, Tori Amos. There are sooo many literary and pop cultural references throughout this series, it's ridiculous.
@SpeakLifeMedia
@SpeakLifeMedia 5 жыл бұрын
Very helpful explanations - especially about Pollution and Pepper's line. Thanks. And good advice to send this to Gaiman. Will do that now!
@Laura-rp9rt
@Laura-rp9rt 5 жыл бұрын
@@SpeakLifeMedia ~ FYI: I just saw that there is a call for scholarly examinations of any aspect of the series for an academic volume on "Good Omens and the Bible" : jibs.group.shef.ac.uk/call-for-submissions-good-omens-the-bible/
@Imbatmn57
@Imbatmn57 3 жыл бұрын
In the show, crowley often points out that he takes credit for humans atrocities, only doing a handful of things to send humans to the "hell side" .
@lornarooks5012
@lornarooks5012 5 жыл бұрын
i always see pollution and pestilence as just different aspects of the same being - pestilence of the person and pestilence of the earth - with the improvement of medicine and expansion of industry pollution could just be the face that is dominant in good omens like how War can be seen as Conquest which are not really the same thing (one is the act of fighting and the other is dominance of an aggressor)
@robinlillian9471
@robinlillian9471 4 жыл бұрын
There are some differences. Pestilence is from microbes. Pollution is from non living chemicals. In some cases, microbes use what we call pollution as food. They eat it, overpopulate, die off, and make a nasty mess that kills larger life forms like fish.
@shaneross739
@shaneross739 4 жыл бұрын
since pollution was exiled from earth in 2019, pestilence returns in 2020.
@robinlillian9471
@robinlillian9471 4 жыл бұрын
The show didn't claim that the children permanently destroyed the devil or horsemen. The devil & his creatures drew their power from human thought and belief. Their rejection defeated and dismissed the devil and three of the horsemen. Death left voluntarily because he temporarily wasn't needed. He wasn't one of the devil's minions. You can't have life without death, so death can't be defeated. Even in Christianity, you can't go to heaven without dying first.
@ThatCyndi
@ThatCyndi 5 жыл бұрын
I love this video because it is exactly what i felt about this show. It’s a good show! Obviously there are some huge theological differences but like also.... To Christians who rant against this show, it’s written by a non-Christian, why are you expecting a sermon? 😂 I watched this with my dad whose a southern baptist pastor and we loved it! We were there for some comedy and prodding theological questions about the nature of angels and demons, not for spiritual wisdom!
@jamesbrixey8102
@jamesbrixey8102 5 жыл бұрын
This is one of the most helpful looks at good omens I have come across: I have read the book and am watching the show and they are fantastically written and acted respectively. I have been working through how to respond to the viewpoint of the show and I think you have it spot on
@Ssatkan
@Ssatkan 5 жыл бұрын
By the way, I realized that the biblical idea of the union of Heaven and earth is in fact represented (or hinted at) in the show and by extension in the tradition it is inspired by: Heaven and earth share their speech pattern: Aziraphale swears and blesses like humans do, like "For Heaven's sake" or "Like Hell I won't.", while Crowley does it the other way around. So earth is already closer to Heaven in a way. Just something I noticed. Carry on being sensible about religion, someone has to every once in a while.
@pspicer777
@pspicer777 5 жыл бұрын
Interesting. We hold very different world views, but I think we could have a productive conversation. Your commentary is so refreshing and not representative of others who hold your belief system. Refreshing, to say the least. Thumbs up.
@SpeakLifeMedia
@SpeakLifeMedia 5 жыл бұрын
In my experience this "take" has been very popular with Christians, so hopefully it's a little bit "representative". Thanks for the encouragement.
@pspicer777
@pspicer777 5 жыл бұрын
@@SpeakLifeMedia SL, yes, perhaps I was too broad in my statement. Your point is well taken. Wishing you and yours the very best.
@a.z.fellco.1704
@a.z.fellco.1704 4 жыл бұрын
A few questions from someone who is trying to better understand their faith: 1) what are your thoughts on Good Omen’s critique of a literalist reading of the Bible? (The bit about the dinosaurs being a joke we haven’t gotten yet as the earth is only 6,00 years old.) 2) What was your reaction to The Flood scene?
@justifiably_stupid4998
@justifiably_stupid4998 5 жыл бұрын
On the subject of Good Omens, the angels and fallen angels were following God's directive because that is what they were created to do. This is evidenced as we see their inability to take in new facts or change their minds. Even Lucifer acts out his role in supplying the anti-christ according to God's will. This is how i imagine Angels -- without their own will. Only free will seperates humanity from angels. Is it reasonable to believe that our minds are the only true source of evil in existance? I dont believe this, just asking for a friend.
@robinlillian9471
@robinlillian9471 4 жыл бұрын
In Good Omens, all the angels & demons made choices, but everything that happened was predicted in the Nice & Accurate Prophecies, so everyone, including humans, had at least the illusion of choice but maybe not the reality of it. Or alternatively, if you know everything about everybody, maybe you can predict everything they will do.
@Imbatmn57
@Imbatmn57 2 жыл бұрын
Death frees, wether it be from a long illness or from the abuse of someone you can't get away from. In star trek the Q being forced to live for eternity is its own personal hell and for the one Q,death was the only freedom from the endless eternity. Death isn't good or bad, the ways people die can be bad but once you die,it's over and there's no pain.
@MatthewFearnley
@MatthewFearnley 5 жыл бұрын
I read and enjoyed the book many years ago, without really considering the theology of it at the time. But watching the first episode, it suddenly becomes very relevant when I’m challenged with questions like: do I really want heaven to reign, when so many of the things I love from earth will be gone? The answer, if “heaven” is as presented by Good Omens, has to be a resounding No. So I have to dig deeper to work out why. I think it’s because heaven isn’t just set up as the “opposing force” to hell, but is actually much weaker than that - it’s just the lack of evil, and an intolerance to anything in the world that’s tainted by it. Hence we’re left with a completely neutered kind of “good”, caricaturised by white rooms, immaculate clothing, and the Sound of Music on repeat. The Bible (and the world) is teeming with examples of genuine goodness - shown perfectly in God, and imperfectly in men and women. But most of what we’d genuinely call good is absent from the Good Omens version of heaven. Almost completely absent. In the real world, we do want (and long for) heaven to reign, because heaven is where God’s will is done, and because God is good. It’s still hard to accept the loss of things we love in the world. But we know these things will pass away, because they don’t fulfil us; their purpose is to point us to God, who created them, and who alone is capable of giving us the lasting and complete fulfilment in him. That’s why we can look forward to (and long for) the real Christ to return, and the real heaven to reign.
@danielcopeland3544
@danielcopeland3544 4 жыл бұрын
Of the Four Horsemen, only Death gets named in Revelation. As I understand it (from a New Testament Greek class a few years ago), War and Famine have been correctly identified, but the white Horseman is not Pestilence. Rather he represents conquest from the point of view of the conqueror -- enacted from a distance (he carries a bow) and rewarded with a crown. The remaining three horsemen -- War, Famine, and Death -- are the consequences of conquest from the point of view of the conquered.
@manicmath3557
@manicmath3557 Жыл бұрын
As a christian, knowing the context of Gaiman saying he intended this to be q comedic tale, it seems more like a satire on the false strange and laughable theology that is false and makes fun of christians who endorce the theology. One of fhe reasons why ifs one of my favourite novels ever I dont expect Gaiman and Pratchet to be experts of theology, they are merely using the common knowledge of this (false) theology to convey a tale of authority. Not saying you must rebel god, buf the message is really a comment on blind authority
@molnarsmovies
@molnarsmovies 11 ай бұрын
Oh man they are going to hate season 2 lol
@SJ-dl6uc
@SJ-dl6uc 2 жыл бұрын
I'm not an atheist, but my refutation of God is strong enough that it could be considered atheism, if I were a belligerent a**hole. however, I believe in the power of human psyche, and I am never above trusting other people's faiths because of what people can do when they truly believe in something. I appreciated this and enjoyed your perspective a lot. as a theoretical Muslim w both Jews and Catholics in my immediate family, God, w the capital "G", is more of a literary myth than a theological parameter. I have been to more religious ceremonies in all three faiths than birthday parties and weddings combined in my entire life. what endears me to myself is when I stress out I call for God cz that's how I was raised. but the more I spiral out the more obvious it becomes that I just want my mom or sister... the idea of equating different figures of authority is so telling in psychoanalysis. anyway, tangents and lifetime worth of experiences and things... hope you're healthy and safe.
@justifiably_stupid4998
@justifiably_stupid4998 5 жыл бұрын
Wow i havent got a recommended video from you in like, 8 month? Not even this one showed up. I was combing through my subs and saw you hiding there.
@SpeakLifeMedia
@SpeakLifeMedia 5 жыл бұрын
It's brutal out there in the howling wilderness of KZfaq right now. The algorithms blow this way and that. Make sure you tap on the "bell" as well as the subscribe button and hope for the best!
@WHix-om4yo
@WHix-om4yo 4 жыл бұрын
Sorry about the slow response but I've had two broken wrists. Great review and I concur with everything that you've said. Many Thanks! Just so you'll know, the Jesuit reviewer at America Magazine gave Good Omens a thumbs up as well. I believe that Sir Terry was a good soul. Pax!
@Joshlama
@Joshlama 5 жыл бұрын
I wonder where the idea for macho spiritual warfare comes from? There are short references here and there of war in Revelation, but it's focus is more on the lamb that has been slain, now leading those who follow him into a new heaven & earth. It is through contradiction (between what Jesus does and what we would expect) that he reigns.
@sihollett
@sihollett 5 жыл бұрын
Good Omens suggests it's us humans with Death saying of the lesser horsemen (of which War is one) that they come from the minds of men. Revelation tends to link prayers/songs of the saints as being related to vengeance against, and destruction of, enemies. But, at the same time, neither have War be entirely an invention of man.
@robinlillian9471
@robinlillian9471 4 жыл бұрын
Joshlama: Warfare is NOT spiritual. Warfare is always for power & wealth. The religious part is just one of a number of excuses for it. Others include appeals to nationalism or fear.
@morganboone6140
@morganboone6140 4 жыл бұрын
You can't really go by the Bible it has been revised so many times that allot of the stories have been fit for the time that version was created so don't quote the Bible and not say which version. The one we almost all grew up with is the King James version but that doesn't mean it is right. I am a Christian by the way
@wcsxwcsx
@wcsxwcsx Жыл бұрын
What to make of this puzzle of a series? We could say that Gaiman and Pratchett were consciously twisting around Christian theology for the sake of some dry humor. That portraying both Heaven and Hell as being run by a bunch of bumbling, incompetent bureaucrats is an easy comedic trope. But to keep this going through a six-part series requires a deeper underlying message. It seems to be that the ultimate will of God is ineffable. That we can't truly comprehend God's purposes from just reading the Scriptures. That may be true. In the minds of these two main characters, both Heaven and Hell have got things wrong. Is that idea really presented effectively in the series? Decide for yourself, but I wasn't convinced.
@t3o
@t3o 5 жыл бұрын
Appreciate this video. Good perspective, and good work.
@pipkinsweetgrass
@pipkinsweetgrass 2 жыл бұрын
Oh dear. I see this man has made has made the mistake of thinking Good Omens is a story that’s actually about religion. It’s not. It’s about people taking sides and making enemies when they really don’t need to. As it says in the book, the problem with humans isn’t that they’re fundamentally good or bad, it’s that they’re fundamentally human.
@letolethe3344
@letolethe3344 11 сағат бұрын
Oh dear. You seem to have made the baffling and monumentally dumb conclusion that Good Omens has nothing to do with religion, despite its invoking, evoking, commenting on, and parodying two specific religions' traditions, mythos, language, characters, texts, and history in every single scene.
@mkedzier123
@mkedzier123 5 жыл бұрын
How does Good Omens trivialize serious matters? It's just based on old Hebrew myths (i.e. Bible) and makes fun on how inconsistent world view based on them is. It doesn't trivialize serious matters any more then Disney's "Hercules" does - it's also based on old myths, just different ones.
@SpeakLifeMedia
@SpeakLifeMedia 5 жыл бұрын
mkedzier123 What’s your theory as to why there are billions of followers of Jesus today? 2.1 billion people define themselves religiously in relation to Jesus Christ and no one as far as I’m aware defines themselves in relation to Hercules. Love to hear a compelling explanation.
@mkedzier123
@mkedzier123 5 жыл бұрын
@@SpeakLifeMedia Popularity doesn't mean something is true. There are 1.8 billion Muslims, 1.15 billion Hindus, 0.5 billion Buddhists and so on - and yet you believe they are all wrong. Not to mention that Christianity has thousands of sects, most of which believe only their version is correct and gives only them access to heaven. As was once said about religions - they can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.
@doug_jewell
@doug_jewell 11 ай бұрын
@@mkedzier123this is late but every “version” of christianity stays consistent with one thing and that’s that the only way to get to heaven is through Jesus Christ
@br0manumatic
@br0manumatic 5 жыл бұрын
Great review. The story is very clever and the show is well made. If anything, Christians now have an avenue of discussion open to them with anyone watching the series. The weak 'theology' that the show is built around crumbles when compared to more reasonable, traditional Christian ideas. This really sheds light on the poor knowledge of Christian doctrine in and out of the church.
@sarahjimison6200
@sarahjimison6200 7 ай бұрын
A evil spirit told me 2 worship Satan one time 100
@sarahjimison6200
@sarahjimison6200 7 ай бұрын
Im a Christian 100
@sarahjimison6200
@sarahjimison6200 7 ай бұрын
I believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
@letolethe3344
@letolethe3344 11 сағат бұрын
Okay, here's a dog biscuit.
@tickedoffnow
@tickedoffnow 4 жыл бұрын
I'm not okay with demons being romanticized. It's too common right now. I feel like it's mocking God.
@a.z.fellco.1704
@a.z.fellco.1704 4 жыл бұрын
Jimmy The Clown Is it different if it is only a singular demon who isn’t that demonic and not demons in general?
@emberalexander7444
@emberalexander7444 22 күн бұрын
Are they romanticizing demons or are they romanticizing humans?
@sarahjimison6200
@sarahjimison6200 7 ай бұрын
I confess that Jesus is the Son of God.
@letolethe3344
@letolethe3344 11 сағат бұрын
So what?
@sarahjimison6200
@sarahjimison6200 7 ай бұрын
I feel like the demons try 2 condition us into thinking evil is ok pleasant music w evil words repeated over n over subliminal messages etc.
@tickedoffnow
@tickedoffnow 4 жыл бұрын
It looks cringey
@bryandehart670
@bryandehart670 5 жыл бұрын
Good Omens is a great fictional performance about a fictional book called the Bible. How can there be faulty theology over a fictional book?
@sihollett
@sihollett 5 жыл бұрын
If Good Omens is about the Bible (I don't see that it is) and specifically Revelation, then it's a very poor adaptation. The main character is missing (he gets a tiny cameo in the TV series), the ending (even before subversion) is different, the themes aren't there, etc. Given the study of the Bible is a key part of theology, then Good Omens' is faulty. I'd argue that that is somewhat deliberate (even before we talk about the message of the authors that comes from the subversions) - rather than the book of Revelation itself, Good Omens is playing around with the faulty theology of pop Christian escatology - it's less obscure and people will get the references!
@KucheKlizma
@KucheKlizma 5 жыл бұрын
One more poor adaptation and one more outrage by the puritans. All in all nothing new under the sun.
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