Support length and timely security updates are very important to me. It’s an absolute scandal that OEMs rarely support their devices for more than a few years after launch.

Qualcomm should just upstream their drivers so android can use a modern linux kernel without back-porting everything

A video on the Open Source community's ongoing support of EOL phones like the Oneplus 6 might be interesting. This can now run a mainline Linux kernel (albeit without camera support yet due to secret closed source image processing techniques in the vendor drivers).

I believe we should start calling Android phones "Closed Linux Phones" to help people realize they are actually using a Linux-based system, albeit with proprietary packages from Google. Maybe then, people would better understand the importance of open source.

So what happens when a phone will receive 7 years of updates and the Kernel only offers 4 or 6 years of updates? Is there a Kernel upgrade happening on a specific OTA upgrade?

Must admit with my computer I always use Linux with LTS but haven't thought much about phone. Recently bought new phone with Android 13 which has since upgraded to 14. Was unaware of association between Linux kernel and Android.

Hey Gary...please help me understand why my Google pixel updated to Android 15 beta, is still on kernel 5.10.xxx-android-13.4. Are the olderer devices tagged to old linux kernel but rest of the AOSP upgraded to Android 15 based on the device we are using.

Android really should support Linux programs if they are going to support their desktop mode

I want to see more normal GNU/Linux on phones!

One just gotta love how google wants Linux kernel LTS every six years but enforces Android apps to target latest Android with penalties.

For me. The feature time is the more important date i look at when looking into a phone. When the phone stops receiving updates i typically install a custom rom on it

You normally loose a year with design in? So 3 year lifespan?

i'm not someone who replace their devices more frequently than their underwear. having said that, unless a reviewer discusses the LTS details, you really don't know at the time of purchase. pretty ...here's my credit card. :-)

Above 3 Android version release upgrades and 4-5 years of security updates anything is pretty equivalent.

I baught a fairphone 4 because of its support 5 year warranty and at least 5 years of updates

Does that mean Manufacturers will be required to update the kernel if they guarantee for example 5 OS Upgrades?

Hey Gary, I like the Penguin background behind you 😃

Very informative video 🎉, thank you. For regular buyers, I doubt anyone actually knows about this. As an Android developer, to be honest, I didn't know about this till now 😂. So yeah, I think it's something to consider, however, we sometimes stick with a phone for more than 6 years, which is longer than the support duration. Therefore, I don't think it is being considered when purchasing a phone.

Given Android runs on top of the Linux kernel - I wonder if you can run normal desktop Linux software on a Rooted Android device. Can we run Android applications on Desktop Linux? What about a rooted Android device running desktop Linux where Android apps could be run in containers?

Android has built in a process where the kernel can be updated with system update. The way they do it is they keep a full copy of the previous system, and the new system and the bootloader handles the attempt to boot into the new system and if not falls back to the previous one. This was not always like this, and system updates were hard, since this new system has been established, vendors now use this same system for update and OTA update systems are less commonly uses for the main or core system, however highly customized vendor distributions may still use OEM updates, or during the system update, an additional package will be required and downloaded for the vendor functionality. Your phone is not stuck on any kernel and google has made it much more simple and eliminated the possibility of your phone being bricked during an update. So for the additional support of the android kernels, I am not sure why they are doing that but it could be related to vendor needs since updating the kernel and full system updates may be more difficult for the vendor, however for phones running pure AOSP, and Pixel Phones, I would expect the kernels to update as soon as a new kernel is available in AOSP.

Security updates are very important, yet project mainline is important too. I believe a video about it would be awesome since there were big changes in Android 14 and I guess they will keep the momentum for Android 15

Thanks for the interesting video. We used to purchase mid priced Android phones from a couple major cellphone companies, but then found that they often used Android versions that couldn’t get any updates at all. Unfortunately those companies didn’t mention that in any of their literature. Needless to say, we found that problematic when notorious Android bugs were announced. At the time, we looked at higher end Android phones but found that they guaranteed OS upgrades/updates for significantly fewer years than for iPhones. So instead of getting high end Android phones, we replaced our Android phones worth iPhones. I must admit that we had some impetus to move in that direction, because we already used iPads, but the OS update issue was the major factor. So I’m wondering if that Android maintenance schedule pertains to low to mid range cost Android phones? Do all Android cellphone manufacturers adhere to that schedule? If not, then which companies do adhere to it? 

This is fantastic news! Yes, this is one of the most important things that I look for in a phone before I buy one. Thanks for the update!

Phew, for a minute I thought those F.C.s at Google were inside my Linux kernel. Just the phone, that's OK as it has a fake ID... Now, where's the Bacofoil?

Well, kernel support is extremely important to me. So much so that i use a pinephone and pinetab2. (arch btw)

I generally upgrade phones roughly every 3 years and the phone that I upgrade from will get passed down and used for another 3 years, for a total of 6. So, I would want security updates and bug fixes for that period of time. A proven track record of providing security updates like that is probably the most important thing to me, even if it costs more. Camera would probably come in second since I want something good to take photos and videos at events (for non-profits and community groups) to share with the organizers. Everything else is a distant third.

Headphone support (wired and wireless), storage support (decent internal and expandable), charging support (wireless and fast wired) and camera (16-125mm (35mm equivalent) focal lengths, at least 4k (8mp) resolution with good sensors) are my primary considerations, but if they are all ok, android updates would probably be the next thing. However, I think Sony Xperia 1 mark ii to vi are the only recent phones (since LG and proper Nokia (808 Pureview) disappeared and Samsung and Apple dropped wired headphone support) that currently match my primary considerations, so I'm stuck with whatever software support they provide.

Security updates are important, I would also like feature updates, but it's not as critical (although missing passkeys support in third party apps in android

Great information / video! :-) Thanks. I don't search other's people comments here, but I would kindly ask if you can (in some comment and/or subsequent video) show some particular example of 'About' or settings screen in concrete Android device (phone/tbalet) and point to individual option/label where is Linux kernel version number(s) encoded/displayed please? Thank you wery much. Pavel.

I carry an iPhone 12 and a pixel 8a. 2 phones that will be supported by updates and security patches for years to come

Mainstream ? Mainline ? Please explain...

Ongoing support with updates is the main reason why I finally switched from Android to Apple a couple of years ago.

I calculate the total cost of ownership. After no updates, I dispose of my phone.

Hi! Project Mainline is progressing slowly but too slowly in my opinion. Like, the current device powered by Snapdragon 845 is plenty fast with good battery life but stuck on older Android 11 despite 845 having good (linux) mainline kernel support. PostmarketOS exists but bootloader unlock has to be supported by the OEM. Unfortunately, not many OEMs support the unlock process. Seriously considering x86 handhelds with linuxos, the only issue being lack of good camera(s). Maybe that'll change soon!

software support time frame is critical.

I'm one of the weirdos that want to use the phone as mostly a phone, not for everything. I specifically didn't installed the banking app, as I don't want it, and overall I don't trust phone in general that much, and above else, I don't like to have so much of everything in one place. I don't want a fatal panic attack if my phone is lost, destroyed or stolen. So, with the above, if Fairphone would've had a headphone jack it would be about perfect for me. Though I would settle for a phone that has 2 USB ports if it doesn't have a headphone jack. I do use the headphone jack (best placed on the top of the phone, not next to the charging port) and I do use a microSD card too, so that's a requirement too. The camera and performance they don't need to be great, but not super slow/old either. I do same games and I do feel like my Samsung Note 9 is a bit slow and laggy at times. I do want access, control and a design that's repair friendly, that's why I mentiond Fairphone (don't ask why I got a Samsung, I knew much less about the landscape then, I bought it mostly for the "it has many features and doesn't have that idiotic notch which I hate"). Speaking of, I hate notches, and I DO like having a bit of bezels. Phone with a notch, even if it's just a small circular one - total deal breaker. Phone with rounded corners - don't want to hear about them. Too bad that GrapheneOS only works on Pixel phones, I heard it is a great OS. Even if the phones are great technically, I don't want to hear about them either. I don't want to support 60Ogle in their gigantic spyware and slowly closing arena that is Android (cough 6o0gle services cough)

Good news for those of us who are technically minded but have you ever asked the staff in a high street phone vendor a question about kernel support? 😂

I stopped buying android devices because of LTS, I have a draw full of perfectly fine and capable devices that OEMs stop supporting less than 2 years later with updates

I don't understand how is decrease of the support time by Google for the Android kernel from 6 to 4 years beneficial or positive for the end users? Google should lead the support time especially on their Pixel HW and always try to increase it as much a possible, not the opposite! Long support lifetime is a showcase of company's commitment to end user/customer as well it shows right approach towards sustainability, especially when device is also scoring well on the repairability scale. Google has increased support lifetime with latest Pixels, however it should do more to beat Apple. Samsung is also falling behind by providing security Android OS updates and upgrades only with their flagship Galaxy devices.

Defo a point of consideration when purchasing an Android device, more so in today's buy and throw away norm ...

Wen framework phones

Google is promising 7 years of updates for Pixel 8 and beyond - including 8a - yet only 4 years of Kernel updates? Sure, malicious software has to come that far for Kernel level security issues to be relevant, but still it doesn't sound that well thought through. At least judging on their current practice of never updating the Kernel version itself and only doing backports. And I don't know of any OEM doing anything else. Of course if Google where able to force chipset manufacturers to open source all their drivers and upstream them, it would probably get easier to just ship Android Upgrades with the latest LTS Kernel and only have the extended support be relevant for OEMs that only offer upgrades for a shorter period but still ship security updates for a longer time. But OEMs would surely try to sue Google over that, so hell probably freezes over first.

I'm a fanboi of Apple and syncs between my Iphone and ipad. For work and gaming I am a Windows and Linux user. That means I don't follow the life span of a product but I refresh when my brain says "time to upgrade".