Essential Sculpting Workflows - Multires vs Dyntopo vs Remesh

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Grant Abbitt

Grant Abbitt

2 жыл бұрын

Sculpting can be a little confusing when it comes to the different types of workflow and when to use them. This video show the different sculpting methods and highlights the strengths and weaknesses of each and how you can combine different methods for the optimum sculpting experience.
Chapters:
0:30 - Dyntopo
3:55 - Remesh
8:35 - Mulitresolution modifier
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Пікірлер: 138
@cgboost
@cgboost 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks for another helpful video, Grant. One note to the Multires Modifier: I'm using it to sculpt on 60+ million faces without much lag. I figured out that the subdivision level of the "low poly" mesh where you add the Multires Modifier to, has a big effect on the Multires Modifier sculpting performance. In your example with the cube, you added the Multires with 11 subdivisions to the basic, non-subdivided cube, which ends up in 25 million faces, and super slow performance. However, if instead you add a Subsurf Modifier before, subdivide it 5 (or more) times with the "Simple" method, then apply it, you can add the Multires Modifier, with 6 subdivisions, again 25 million faces, and a smooth sculpting performance. Hope this can be useful for you.
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
That's very good to know thanks very much
@fraternoman9579
@fraternoman9579 2 жыл бұрын
I'm going to try this. Thank you.
@Arrkail
@Arrkail 2 жыл бұрын
@@grabbitt maybe make a shorts video showcasing this metheod? i really like that cg boost did watch the video and gave tips on it.
@kkojha
@kkojha Жыл бұрын
But why is it so?
@cgboost
@cgboost Жыл бұрын
@@kkojha Good question, it must be how certain algorithms work in Blender. 🤷‍♂
@Helgrind44
@Helgrind44 2 жыл бұрын
Note : these sculpting tools can work together. It might seem obvious but just because you start with one method doesn't mean that you can't switch later on. Here is a workflow I use with all of these methods : - I do a quick blockout with poly modeling. Simples subdivided cubes that I sculpt to get the basic proportions. - I join all theses shapes and remesh it. This gives me a merged object that I can sculpt. - I use dyntopo to have more freedom and get more accurate shapes. - Once I'm happy with the base, I remesh it again to smooth it out. - I continue remeshing with a smaller resolution, adding more details each step. - For the very tiny details (pores of the skin, scars...), I use multiresolution. It's a bit less laggy than remesher, and it acts like a non destructive layer. That's just an example, but just to tell you that you don't have to use only one. They all have flaws and advantages, so try to use the most appropriate to your use case.
@growupempresas3698
@growupempresas3698 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so fucking much!
@AkameGaKill194
@AkameGaKill194 2 жыл бұрын
.... Muti res makes my pc explode and gives it a lot of detail. Remesh doesn;t if you are smart ewith the numbers.mutires also causes a lot of issues if in the long run if you don't have perfect topolgoy which is why I love to remesh and then retopo then texture in substance
@AkameGaKill194
@AkameGaKill194 2 жыл бұрын
Also its best to do uv mapping first in blender then export to substance auto uvs on substance on the best
@alex-qn5xp
@alex-qn5xp 2 жыл бұрын
your a life saver thank you
@sigurdgram
@sigurdgram Жыл бұрын
ain't you that jojo with four balls
@SaadTheGlad
@SaadTheGlad 2 жыл бұрын
Grant I just want you to know that you're the single reason I'm semi confident in my blended skills now. Everybody says the donut tutorial is iconic when in fact your entire channel should be
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks :)
@amesmedia4447
@amesmedia4447 2 жыл бұрын
I second this whole heartedly. I feel like a lot of blender tutorials (or really any tutorial in general) is either all flash with no substance, not even discussing any of the actual techniques of 3D modeling, or all substance and no flash. You, Grant, have done an amazing job at combing these, making interesting and engaging content, while also delivering a solid amount of actual technique and theory (your dragon head retopology videos come to mind). Plus, on top of all of that, you’re just a dang good artist man!
@Feksil
@Feksil 2 жыл бұрын
@@amesmedia4447 And as a bonus unlike Blender Guru he doesn't do NFTs, thank god!
@mrsweetkandy7673
@mrsweetkandy7673 11 ай бұрын
Yeah ngl i started with the donut tutorial and later came across grant's character courses which are imo the best intro to all of the 3D stuff I realized thst the donut tutorial gives you a lot of stuff but in the end not much i've really memorized as it was just so specific to the donut; I don't think i've learned that much from it... it basivally just introduced me to stuff
@wex4sex
@wex4sex 2 ай бұрын
I understand your point of view but the genius of the donut tutorial is that it is a really simple shape which doesn't seem to hard, so you don't get this overwhelming anxiety when you start. At least that was the case with me...
@ped-away-g1396
@ped-away-g1396 2 жыл бұрын
they're suitable for different workflows. in dyntopo/remesh workflow, you'd usually blockout > remesh > sculpt > retopo > unwrap > bake normal. in multires workflow, you'd usually poly model > unwrap > multires > sculpt > bake normal.
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
Indeed
@Jaxcesr
@Jaxcesr 2 жыл бұрын
Grant, that issue with the remesh at 11min has been plaguing me forever, and I never knew what was causing it. have restarted projects thinking I corrupted them somehow. There are so many little things like this, that you only see in the middle of people's videos. Love the videos keep up the great educational content.
@saphirone8030
@saphirone8030 2 ай бұрын
I gotta say, you are my savior. I've been trying myself out at blender for a few weeks and i've been constantly bumping into problems while sculpting because I've had no idea how to correctly set my blender before starting.
@ghostpeppered4524
@ghostpeppered4524 Жыл бұрын
This was a great overview. I would only add that if you want to apply the Multires modifier, you must do that in Object mode. Pay attention to the viewport level chosen when you do that. But afterward you can go back into sculpt mode, and then apply Remesh, Dyntopo, etc. So that's how you can transition between sculpting in all 3 modes for the same object.
@francescotateo7226
@francescotateo7226 2 жыл бұрын
For very realistic works I like to use multires because I can sculpt pore level details and if I notice something I don’t like in the base mesh, I can jump back to a level 2/3 of subdivisions so that I can change the shape of the model maintaining usually all the details added until then. That’s a very cool characteristic of multires that you didn’t mention. Hope this helps someone
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
i did say how you can jump down a level and sculpt but your example is a good example :)
@francescotateo7226
@francescotateo7226 2 жыл бұрын
@@grabbitt sorry! Guess I got distracted for a second
@rakutempo
@rakutempo 6 ай бұрын
This was so unbelievably helpful!! Thank you. Also, thanks for always just getting on with it. I can't stand it when a tutorial starts with 10 minutes of talking about what the tutorial will be about! Your content is fantastic and you deserve every one of your 500K subs 🤙
@stuwheeler
@stuwheeler Жыл бұрын
Excellent tutorial of these techniques in a short amount of time. You've improved my skills already. Thanks!!!!
@ebot1635
@ebot1635 2 жыл бұрын
Great video! Already knew quite a bit of those methods but I still found it extremely informative and interesting, even learning some new things ☺. Amazing video as usual Grant!
@aomadeira
@aomadeira 7 ай бұрын
Wish I could like this video twice!! The amount of quality you have there in such a short video is awesome!
@jasontodd518
@jasontodd518 2 жыл бұрын
Love you Grant, always most patient and friendly language, giving information sharp n clear, i get to fully understand everything without constant stopping and playback, you're the best, keep it coming!
@VuULF
@VuULF 2 жыл бұрын
You offer the most amazing contributions to the community - your guides are extremely informative, and you have an incredible knack of making what looks very difficult seem like I'm playing with plasticine 😁 Thank you for your amazing contributions to the Blender community! I've used blender for small things for quite a long time, but was always awed and confused by what others could achieve - your channel has become my goto to learn everything Blender, because you teach all of us how to be the achievers! Thank you sir! ✌️
@Jham3D
@Jham3D 2 жыл бұрын
Great tutorial! I think sculpting is one of the most intimidating part of Blender for most beginners to learn. It was for me at least. But it’s great to see FREE helpful tutorials on it!
@squeegel3904
@squeegel3904 2 жыл бұрын
Dyntopo: Constant detail is as it says, constant. RELATIVE.. Lets you zoom into areas and add detail based on your current view. So if you were wanting to make big changes, zoom out. If you wanted small details, zoom in. It will be relative, to your view. huge downside to dyntopo is it takes off any UV map, which makes texturing difficult.
@danielramirez4459
@danielramirez4459 2 жыл бұрын
1. Yes! Thank you a lot, that actually did help out, that remesh bit at the end with multiple objects 👌🏽 2. Waiting on that Wolverine 🙏🏽
@himoplayer1959
@himoplayer1959 2 жыл бұрын
Great demonstration, keep up the great work 👍
@DarkSwordsman
@DarkSwordsman Жыл бұрын
This is absolutely insane. Previously I was adding multiple shapes together and manually doing a union boolean, leaving me with weird seams between objects of different vertex densities. I also had started to use edit mode with subdivision on 5 or 6 to create a basic shape and then sculpt, but still ran into weird vertex issues. Dyntopo and Remesh are exactly what I need. I am kind of sad that they aren't talked about more. But thank you so much!
@otherworlds9677
@otherworlds9677 2 жыл бұрын
Thnak you, Grant. Great examples and explanations as always.
@denizorsel1029
@denizorsel1029 2 жыл бұрын
Wow, I am so glad to know you Grant. Your blender character creator course together with Rick was awesome. Thank you so much bringing wisdom to my journey!
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks
@ahmedouardani2370
@ahmedouardani2370 Жыл бұрын
Than you for this video. Tools have been adding to dyntopo, remeshing then multi res without knowing the use for each you can't find a good strategy for sculpting. I hope someday you easily switch between these methodes with a more controlled remecher. Keep it up !
@JesseCotto
@JesseCotto Жыл бұрын
Briliiant. Excellent delivery. Thanks!
@ellizjum
@ellizjum Жыл бұрын
lovely tutorial. nice. calm. organised. just lovely. thank you very much.
@drumandbassob0007
@drumandbassob0007 Жыл бұрын
not a fan of adverts in the middle of videos but i must admit you slid that add in with style and at the perfect time , i can confirm its a good sponsor to as i have a laptop and got my mum a laptop from PC specialist there great
@RWBKelly
@RWBKelly Жыл бұрын
Thanks Grant. Finally time to get sculpting again and usually sculpt in zbrush but time to give blender a go. So some good tips already where to start. Thanks
@tauzand1000
@tauzand1000 2 жыл бұрын
15% into one of your videos and I knew you were going to be great...immediately bought one of your intro to Blender courses. I'm already feeling like a pro. You are the best...keep up the good work. Your teaching skills are amazing but your voice is even better.
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks🙂
@dmauleon
@dmauleon 2 жыл бұрын
Awesome tutorial, I loved it!
@JohnSatan
@JohnSatan 2 жыл бұрын
1:46 dyntopo automatically disables because you still have UV map on mesh, if you delete it before using dyntopo it won't show that pop-up warning and won't be disabled after switching modes
@mr.lunatic3157
@mr.lunatic3157 Жыл бұрын
Dude this is a golden tip 🫡
@Abmotsad
@Abmotsad Жыл бұрын
Best video on this topic on the interwebs. How did anyone learn to do anything before KZfaq?
@Pdexterness
@Pdexterness Жыл бұрын
Great video & explanation!
@dillondeer4371
@dillondeer4371 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! This video was helpful and entertaining
@HevonCZR
@HevonCZR 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much for the explanation!
@teamavatar6460
@teamavatar6460 2 жыл бұрын
great as always
@caencfy4702
@caencfy4702 2 жыл бұрын
I keep waking up at 1AM for the answer. Thank you for this.
@amvparadise9206
@amvparadise9206 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot for teaching us
@MajinVegeto89
@MajinVegeto89 Жыл бұрын
Awesome tutorial, thank you
@cofiecoffcoff4287
@cofiecoffcoff4287 2 жыл бұрын
This explained a lot, thank you!
@perkele1989
@perkele1989 Жыл бұрын
Thank you for this channel! You're a god.
@Ben7Seven
@Ben7Seven 2 жыл бұрын
Great helpful video!
@lapissea1190
@lapissea1190 2 жыл бұрын
One thing that I never saw anyone mention is a very important difference between the voxel remesh and dyntopo workflow. With dyntopo you have much less fine control over the shape. It always ends up being blobby. (I like to call it potato mesh) When you are refining your shape you don't want constantly changing polygons. You really want to dile in the shape in a fairly low resolution mesh so you don't get distracted by detailing and have an easy time smoothing. I see a lot of new sculpting artists using dyntopo because "I don't need to think about topology" sounds appealing but it ends up working really badly against them.
@wokeupina
@wokeupina 2 жыл бұрын
what if we use remesh at the end of the process of dyntopoing?
@lapissea1190
@lapissea1190 2 жыл бұрын
@@wokeupina That's usually what I do, dyntopo at the very start to get a rough shape, then switch to remeshing and then to multires to detail things in
@wokeupina
@wokeupina 2 жыл бұрын
@@lapissea1190 oh thanks, and learning that remesh does boolean is great.
@JonVlogs123
@JonVlogs123 2 жыл бұрын
This is the best channel for Blender tutorials. 😎👍
@Montuawake
@Montuawake 2 жыл бұрын
very useful topic. thank you
@Arthr0
@Arthr0 2 жыл бұрын
I was searching the video before sleep, on morning I got this. How, I mean how you read my mind
@smilgu
@smilgu 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for sharing! :)
@hazdrubal5962
@hazdrubal5962 Жыл бұрын
Thank you.
@elliejohnson2786
@elliejohnson2786 Жыл бұрын
That remesh on joined objects looks like a great way to lazy-boolean some objects together if you can't be bothered adding in perfect geometry for them and cleaning up! Great tip for sculptors, although I don't really do much sculpting :(
@Clara-hl3jb
@Clara-hl3jb 2 жыл бұрын
thank you so much
@Iamzukii
@Iamzukii 2 жыл бұрын
you deserve more views
@Christopherwilley
@Christopherwilley Жыл бұрын
Heck yeah! I've always wanted to see the difference between these modes. Thank you or explaining them clearly and concisely! Much appreciated. I'll buy you a beer some time soon! :) Where is the link for that again? 🍺
@grabbitt
@grabbitt Жыл бұрын
I think it's in the description I believed. Thanks
@rosman3d
@rosman3d 2 жыл бұрын
Great
@aopaul
@aopaul 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe in another video break down in what specific situation each one is better suited for and at what point during different workflows we would want to use one over the other. Say, making a videogame model as opposed to one that's just needed for a flashy render, etc or an organic model vs a hard surface. Thanks!
@JacobKinsley
@JacobKinsley Жыл бұрын
I like to put a bit of work into my base mesh then do multires. I'm not very good at sculpting compared to manipulating the mesh in edit mode so it makes it easier to think about.
@eitantal726
@eitantal726 11 ай бұрын
remesh supplying you with more vectrices (like dynotopo) is incidental. The purpose of remesh is to voxelize the existing mesh, making it simpler. It just so happens that remesh does not decimate redundant vertices
@eitantal726
@eitantal726 11 ай бұрын
11:00 Try applying the solidify modifier. Remesh will then work
@improvementTime10.3.17
@improvementTime10.3.17 2 ай бұрын
12:00 remesh after turn off dyntopo 4:08 remesh Shortcut Shift R to see voxel faces (default = 0.1) (.001 is gonna lag dont try at home) (.01 seemed fine) Ctrl R to remesh --------- 7:50 if you use remesh while doing snake hook, you can get similar results to dyntopo but youll constantly have to Ctrl R whereas Dyn topo you just focus on the sculpting
@amanitamuscaria5863
@amanitamuscaria5863 Жыл бұрын
Remesh and dynotopo are good when you overdid it with subdivide.
@LaszloIvanyi
@LaszloIvanyi 2 жыл бұрын
So after you re-mesh an object that has more objects joined together, you loose the ability to separate them, good to know.. Nice and easy tutorial. Thanks.
@RobbieTilton
@RobbieTilton 2 жыл бұрын
i'd be curious to see how you deal with fingers. remeshing always destroys the gap between the fingers. doing a bool union leaves some weird normals at the edges of the finger and the hand.
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
Set you remesh number lower
@guyinagarage571
@guyinagarage571 Жыл бұрын
I'm pretty green to modelling in blender. I noticed the Maya style hotbox you keep using, what is the hotkey for it? Great video, I learned a lot! Thank you.
@grabbitt
@grabbitt Жыл бұрын
Ctrl tab to change modes
@igorkovalenko5851
@igorkovalenko5851 2 жыл бұрын
Тhe video should have been titled "Don't try this at home"🤣 Grant, you are the best !!!
@chaosordeal294
@chaosordeal294 2 жыл бұрын
This is informative, but it suggests that you need to choose one or another method, and of course you can combine and choose as you care to. I hate Remesh, but when you have to, you have to (and it works really well).
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
See my next video about the multires🙂
@georgerosoga5589
@georgerosoga5589 2 жыл бұрын
You have a ship, sir!
@bunnyfreakz
@bunnyfreakz Жыл бұрын
Say if you wanted to create apple. - Remesh for basic apple shape and the stem. - Dyno to create uninform apple shape - UV wrapping - Multires to create pore and really small details.
@Deathbysnusnu125
@Deathbysnusnu125 Жыл бұрын
I am looking at getting a new computer that can better handle 3d modeling. I like the idea of sculpting but at times want to use fusion 360. I was thinking maybe a 2in1 laptop tablet. Any advice?
@grabbitt
@grabbitt Жыл бұрын
See my what computer video for me details
Жыл бұрын
I also encountered the problem at 11:15 in my own model, but I could not solve it in any way. :(
@Clara-hl3jb
@Clara-hl3jb 2 жыл бұрын
ilove itt
@waberoid
@waberoid 11 ай бұрын
I wish Blender would create their own proprietor code like Zbrush's pixal. I think it's called Pixal, but it's their software that allows you to have 30m polys without it lagging.
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 11 ай бұрын
You can go up to 60 million these days
@ten-ub4xd
@ten-ub4xd 2 жыл бұрын
Nothing happens to my object when i try to sculpt? Ive ticked the Dyntopo box and still nadaa - any helpings please, thanks love your vids!
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
Have you got any modifiers?
@Aaron-vn5fd
@Aaron-vn5fd 2 жыл бұрын
I can never actually learn anything from grant because his voice always makes me sleepy ;)
@KrumpusPlunk
@KrumpusPlunk Жыл бұрын
I still don't really get the purpose of multires... when would you use it over the other methods? Do you switch to a lower resolution, move stuff around, and go back to higher resolution to work on details? so it's a way to improve performance and then if you return to higher res your changes are applied to the higher res model as well?
@grabbitt
@grabbitt Жыл бұрын
Generally use the multires whenever youare able but it does need good topology
@warlord76i
@warlord76i 2 жыл бұрын
I wonder if i can work by interchanging the different modes on a sculpt? Or once i started with a mode it has to be continued?
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
Interchanging works to a degree but not with miltires
@warlord76i
@warlord76i 2 жыл бұрын
@@grabbitt So in your opinion, which mode is best, for adding details for an average computer?
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
all 3 combined with multires last
@TheKevphil
@TheKevphil Жыл бұрын
Question: I have a first-gen i7 6-core. I'm looking at a used RTX A4000. (And down the road a bit, a newer i7.) Is that too big a mismatch?
@grabbitt
@grabbitt Жыл бұрын
I would recommend an nvidia card if you can as they work the best in blender
@HanSolocambo
@HanSolocambo Жыл бұрын
@@grabbitt The guy talks about an RTX A4000... what do you think it is ? An electric toothbrush ?
@ixadoodler8865
@ixadoodler8865 2 жыл бұрын
I'm new to 3D and Blender, so excuse my dumb question, but how does multires differ form subsurface division ?
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
Specifically used for sculpting
@improvementTime10.3.17
@improvementTime10.3.17 2 ай бұрын
9:00 multires like zbrush subdiv
@deformedcube
@deformedcube 2 жыл бұрын
2:47 heard loud and clear 😅🙏
@Grayard
@Grayard 2 жыл бұрын
Hello, Thank you very much for the video =D I have a smol question you see I have been learning on my own how to do 3d modeling, color and rigging, the thing is, I dont have the means to get a good touch pad atm and most of the things I want to model get really complicated when I try to do it only with modeling (like the dragon XD ) So, my question: how far can I get as a 3d artist without using sculpting? PD: I wont take it in a bad way if you dont reply, I know you are a really busy person =D
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
Many artist don't sculpt and do hard surface modelling instead
@AntonioCesarAlves
@AntonioCesarAlves 2 жыл бұрын
-Dyntope is too heavy, sculpt and calculate split mesh at the same time is to small areas. After then it is impossible to apply alpha textures, without organizing the mesh. -Remesh works fine to sculpt, but It's not intuitive, it's a completely manual approach. -Multiresolution is a versatile propertie. Good for when the shape won't change much, to make details. Because if not stretch the mesh quads. -voxel remesh never worked well. It is necessary tool for do hardsurface sculpt. So you need to buy third party addon. In my opinion, blender sculpt mode was developed thinking, to aditional help polygonal edit model, but isn't a dedicate sculpt software.
@Shiruvan
@Shiruvan 2 жыл бұрын
the last primitive+remesh part is where Blender goes so far above ZBrush, it works with character model with armature so you can rest pose/disable armature modifier to work on symmetry, and turn it on back again see how the sculpt would look in pose, change the pose, want to add stuff with symmetry? just copy face from the character model(which usually were done with symmetry modifier on already so you don't have to add that modifier again, let alone pose the copied parts individually)
@Siddhant19931
@Siddhant19931 Жыл бұрын
0:37 idk why but my hands immediately pressed ctrl z lol
@gambikules
@gambikules Жыл бұрын
So conclusion ?
@grabbitt
@grabbitt Жыл бұрын
Use a combination of them all 😀
@jetdude11
@jetdude11 2 жыл бұрын
btw the woman name is called Gloria
@HanSolocambo
@HanSolocambo 9 ай бұрын
Dyntopo looses all face sets. That's ridiculous. I mean one can keep polygroups in ZBrush more or less forever no matter how destructive the choice of workflow. Dyntopo is mandatory to precisely sculpt areas without overcharging the whole mesh... but as it doesn't understand face sets it's totally useless in most cases.
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 9 ай бұрын
Yes they are discontinuing support for I think
@chibimillenium
@chibimillenium 2 жыл бұрын
rig face pleaseee:(
@murdocklesban6836
@murdocklesban6836 2 жыл бұрын
NO se usa el DYNOTOPO asi , es un error
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
Not sure what you mean
@jhonysteak5512
@jhonysteak5512 Жыл бұрын
Not successful, my character breaks into a thousand pieces, next tutorial.
@grabbitt
@grabbitt Жыл бұрын
It does not work if you have a hole in the mesh
@jhonysteak5512
@jhonysteak5512 Жыл бұрын
@@grabbitt That's what I thought and tried to block everything without much success with ctrl + m/edge/distance. For the moment I have found nothing conclusive on Blender, even QuadRemesh, it works well but it creates a new model which is a disaster since they have to glue the armature and the animation back together. While waiting to find an effective solution, I go through Maya to remesh then I export to Blender.
@v10moped
@v10moped 2 жыл бұрын
For the love of God, stop using that creepy face model with disturbing proportions.
@grabbitt
@grabbitt 2 жыл бұрын
You don't have to watch it
@lukasvideosify1596
@lukasvideosify1596 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Grant! I really love how we seem to try to answer every comment here. That is really rare for such a big channel! 🙂 I am by the way the admin and founder of Blender Help for Absolute Beginners an I get to see links of videos on my feed all the time. You have helped a lot of our members get a good start into 3D creation. I would very much like to thank you in te new of the majority of our members. Please keep on creating useful content for the community! And if you want to be a partner of our educational group, please contact me on Facebook. See you!
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