I remember years ago when I was just 15 and started playing in a band. We used to practise at the home of the guitarist. His father was a true audiophile and every week he would spend hundreds (this was 1974) on new bits of kit for his system and he was constantly tinkering with the setup as you have demonstrated in this video. After a few months I turned up on a Saturday morning and all his high end kit was gone and he had a Pioneer amp and deck with AR MST speakers. Altogether just a fraction of the cost of his previous kit. He had redecorated his room and purchase a new chair, disposing of much of the other furniture. when I asked him why the change he simple said he had spent years looking for the perfect sound reproduction and finally realised that it didn't exist, so he swapped the whole lot for a system that gave him the sound he liked. The morel of this story I suppose is that beauty is in (in this case) the ears of the beholder. He ended up with a place to relax and listen to his music in comfort and with a sound he was more than happy with. The price tag doesn't make the sound better.

I've said this for years: the law of diminishing returns is very evident with high-end Hi-Fi. This video certainly provides some solid evidence to that, and kudos to the man making the video for explaining it in such a simple easy-to-understand way.

I live near the site of the original Wharfedale factory in the UK, as kids we used to raid their yard for broken magnets. Strange how a random video can revive these childhood memories.

The phase relationship between the tweeter and woofer on the wharfedale after being modded is pretty remarkable.

WOWW!! This was a brutal assessment. Great job!!! Thanks for pulling the curtain back!!!

I have the stock Wharfedale anniversary edition and I’ve always been overwhelmingly surprised by how good they are, despite limitations that are more than fair given the price. I previously upgraded to speakers costing 3 times the price, then 5 times the price, and while each upgrade brought a difference, I was always perplexed by how the overall balance and voicing was better on the Wharfedales. Now I know the answer, the Wharfedales (although cheap) are better designed and better balanced than many other speakers and I totally believe these upgrades will turn them into real gems that are better than stock speakers costing several multiples more. I’m loving these speaker upgrade videos. Keep ‘em coming 👍👍

Great video, Danny! Honest and equitable comparison. End results put the two options so close to each other, but the difference in cost (up front and after upgrades) is considerable. Really appreciate your hard work!

I have the Warfdales and for simply sitting and listening to music they are perfect.

I could listen to you all day. 👍 Really interesting stuff! Well done. 👌

At 4000 dollars it shouldn't need any improvements, thats ridiculous.

Your technical expertise and analysis of speakers is amazing and awesome! Thank you for posting the video!

Decades ago, when I was recently divorced and "starting over", I bought a super cheap set of coffee table and two end tables. They were made of shit brown pressboard, which is just one step above cardboard. It's just sawdust + glue + a bit of pressure to manufacture. You can't even put a screw in it without it disintegrating like paper. But it also had a really nice looking high gloss shine over the veneer - if I can even call it veneer. It's probably paper thin and made to look like Madagascar rosewood. My point is, I figure if they can put a nice glossy finish on pressboard, they can put a nice shiny finish on almost anything. Because of this, I'm more impressed by what's under that shine than the gloss itself. That's one of my big beefs with the audio speaker industry. Even at $2000 each, speakers are still made of MDF when that's just cheap, cheap, cheap. There's a thousand other materials that look better and sound a lot better. But since MDF is dirt cheap, even the expensive guys use it. And that's just not right. Plywood is better at vibration damping than MDF. And at $2K plus, I expect better than cheap plywood, and a whole lot better than the cheapest MDF they can find. Especially for little guys like those. If you're talking about huge speakers, or tall towers, I can see hardwood getting really expensive. But for little boxes like that, the cost of a better quality material (and there's a lot of them out there), is not prohibitive. Yeah, I know people will say "I'd rather they soak their money into better drivers than better boxes". But is that what they're really doing? Just look at that modded Warfdale response curve and spectral decay, then try to tell me the Revel drivers are 10X better. btw, I haven't seen response curves that flat outside of a manufacturers 'liars sheet' until I started watching this channel. I'd have to say the modded Warfdales really are worth $600 / pair. And I'm going to politely refrain from commenting on the Revels.

Man, don't forget that Beryllium tweeters are crazy expensive. The cheapest one I found is 300 USD by itself, and this one in the video seems like a high end tweeter for me. So in the 4000 USD setup the tweeters alone cost minimum 600 USD but I bet they are rather between 800-900 USD (if not more). It seems like the woofer has a ceramic cone (not aluminium) which is also on the expensive side. Is this 4000 USD setup overpriced? Yes. Is it worth the money? No, but I'm pretty sure there is a small market for these products, because a few people definietly willing to pay this price.

That was an amazing video. Thank you for pulling the wool from our eyes.

Always interesting to watch.. like the honesty

Thank you for explaining the differences between two good speaker providers. I am always lost when purchasing audiophile products. Unfortunately in the UK it’s very difficult to get consultancy type advice to suit ones ear. I love your expert commentary

This is exactly why I like this channel for GR Res. How many reviewers would say that a $350 speaker matches a $4000 speaker ? Now I realize that there is some marketing involved, ie "after the modifications ...", but this is from a very experienced listener and he concludes that some may prefer the sound of one or the other but certainly indicates how flat that diminishing returns curve really can be (and how expensive a cabinet can be ...).

Finally, a proper Scientific Analyzer ! 110% agree, including that the Quality of Internal wire does actually matter! However, you are much more forgiving than I am. Seriously, at $4000, Revel just forgot to kill off the weird box resonances? Pathetic.

Again always great info! Love seeing this difference and knowing your word is true really helps a end user be able too either upgrade or even get some gr research speakers that will also be great. Thanks. Thumbs up.

Bought some Wharfedale Diamond 9.1s a couple of months ago for £119 or $165, you cant beat that for these little speakers, great sound....

I just found this channel and omg! Subscribed immediately! I so wish we had ppl like you locally so i could bring all my speakers for tweaking ! 😂👍

I have a pair of these Wharfedale 9.1's and I can confirm they punch well above their weight. You can pick them up in the UK new for around £120 now - incredible value for money. A great sounding speaker in stock form, although I'm very tempted to install these upgrades now...

wharfedale uses the same tweeter across the entire diamond range, including the large floorstanders. the tweeter itself is simply spectacular for this price range.

Wharfedale has a remarkable heritage. The founder was G.A. Briggs, who started the company in 1932. By the 1950's he was doing live versus recorded comparison sessions in places such as Festival Hall in London and Carnegie Hall in NYC, with considerable success. One of his early designs had a large open baffle (not a closed box) that consisted of two sheets of wood with a gap in-between filled with sand for damping. They were similar in size to the Quads that appeared in the marketplace at that time; perhaps the Quads were the inspiration for Briggs to try the open baffle and he found he liked it. His writing of that period showed a combination of measurement and listening being used to guide his choices.

I appreciate your work done on, testing, diagnostic, and re-engineering the crossover to elevate the performance of consumer loudspeakers. By doing so, your work brings to light the value of the product. I build my own and use premium parts in locations similar to your locations, but I can not see the reason for not going the full length and give you the value.

We all need to put you on as much of social media (exposure) as possible. You are an audio guru who is doing a great service!!

Excellent presentation. The retrofit of components, and conclusions regarding the sound quality is absolutely staggering when considering the price ranges between these speakers.

It's been my experience in the traveling circus we call life that just because something cost more doesn't necessarily mean it's better

Always interesting to see the comparisons Danny. Keep 'em coming.

Interesting, I appreciate the non biased and technical evaluation. You don’t see this type of information on offer anywhere else. It makes you wonder why the design engineers didn’t just make them better at the beginning. Profit margin I suppose.

So happy to find this suggestion from KZfaq today! Just subscribed.

Your upgrade turns the Diamond into a thoroughly legit recording studio nearfield. It's only shortcoming in that application may be absolute dynamics, but still...

Here in Europe you can get the new Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 for about 350 Euro's (=425 dollars), which is the 6.5" version for the new Diamond series. Would really love to see how that measures and what an upgrade might do to it! If the 'new' speaker is indeed better, that could be something. The spacing between the woofer and tweeter did increase though, compared to the series 9.

I'm not so sure whether two different speakers have just been improved quite well or whether the lovingly polished voicing of the manufacturer has been completely destroyed at once. Just one example: The biggest misconception e.g. with capacitors: Polypropylene is always good and polyester is always bad because cheap. If I now exchange a polyester for a polypropylene in an xover without knowing what I am doing, it is ignorance to pay attention only to the "quality" of the cap. Let's assume that Wharfedale is a traditional brand that still wants to represent its British sound. And let's assume that it's not just about cost. Then the polyester cap will probably achieve much more of the desired British sound. Because the ESR of the polyester cap is more like that of caps used 40 years ago. I'm not just changing the "sound" of the capacitor, I'm changing the overall impedance of the xover. This leads to unpredictable and mostly unintended changes. For example, bass and tweeter no longer harmonize in timing, the "Q" of the polypropylene cap is "too accurate", the box can become sharp cutting and shrill sounding. The bass can become too quiet. Of course there are situations where I want to repair or improve something. But I have respect for the development of speakers. On the one hand, the manufacturer must pay attention to costs but on the other hand, he makes (once!) The painstaking work of tuning for the whole production series. And there any change in the xover can throw everything into imbalance. The same applies to the superstition that air chokes are always and everywhere better than those with iron core. Again, I change the overall impedance and timing. I can only decide what quality my components are before I design and develop them, not so well afterwards. But I understand it very well that people who experience these videos very enthusiastic, because you do something yourself, thereby perhaps open the first doors to the wonderful world of acoustics and electrical engineering.

Man taking apart the $4000 speaker and fixing it up - pretty funny! I am going to check out your other videos and wish you had a shop near me as I would no doubt be buying something you made up yourself. Nice job.

Very interesting review. The comments on the wharfedale seem quite constrained. They are amazing.

Well the Tweeters are Beryllium on Revels, actually very nice drivers, on par with the Paradigms or other well engineered products. The drivers are designed by ex ScanSpeak people. Of course the crossover is usually much more complicated with metal cones. The box disappoints - wow the sides ring like crazy. As for the voicing I hate screaming tweeters..., and I have no problem with their te level and crossover parts. And the rising impedance on TW section actually might be a good thing as most amps have lower distortions with higher impedances. Revels usually measure very well on Klippel, and I would expect this to be no different. Wharfedale - the drivers aren't as hi-tech, so crossovers aren't as complex. Very Good set of simple spkrs for the money. And the enclosures are better put together than Revels. BTW, the measurements are 1/3oct MLS. I would like it to see them in 1/12oct smoothing as one can see problems with the cone resonances, diffraction, etc.

id still take the Wharfedale's with or without the upgrades

Hi, this came up in my feed, really enjoyed it. 👌 I'm not a speaker audiophile or a technician but appreciate really good sound and also appreciate no nonsense engineering over snake oil voodoo claims. I have now subscribed and look forward watching more of your posts. best wishes from UK. 🙂

Hey Danny, I'm very impressed with the simplicity and clarity that you convey in a very complex topic. I see a pattern...Esre inductors, Sonic caps, non-sandcast resistors, 4 9s copper non-pvc jacketed wiring, tube connectors, and a sheet of No-Res. Of course, CLIO analysis and your knowledge of how to fix all of these jacked up factory crossovers makes it all fly. It just makes me wonder how the hundreds of "hi-fi" speaker designers justify their existence. The profit margins on those Revels are insane!

The Revel is making its manufacturer a HUGE profit margin.They could sell it for half the price and still make a decent margin. It just shows how hi fi firms can exploit their customers.

I know speakers are key to a great sounding system, but speaker placement and room acoustics are 100 times more important. I have listened a properly placed set of $700.00 speakers blow a poorly placed pair of $10.000.00 speakers right out of the water. Many, many people think they need to spend more money to get better sound, when all they have to do is move some furniture and objects around in the room. Great video, as usual.

After watching your videos I have a really hard time trying to understand how anyone can plop down thousand of dollars on speakers. With a few hundred bucks you can make dramatic improvements to average speakers. I bought a pair of used Mirage Omni 250's last winter that are in flawless condition. Because the speakers are about 15 years old I figured I would swap out the caps to film caps. I had never worked on speakers before and I found it to be not as difficult as expected. $55 later and about 3 hours of my time and I can tell you it's the best time and money I have ever spent on stereo equipment. It was a dramatic improvement!

I'm glad KZfaq recommended this video to me. I've learned so much from just this 1 video.

The Revel's better power response is quite evident on measurement. Not sure the resistor reduction is the right move as the power response seems less balanced. What does the DI and early reflection weighted response look like before/after?

I’ve had 3 sets of Wharfedales. Evo-2, Evo-3, and a much higher end set can’t remember the name. All three sounded fantastic especially driven by an Ashley mosfet amp.

I've Wharfedale Diamond 9.2 & did a upgrade myself, first of all 1 cm thick rubber lining, better inner cables and a bit of crossover cutoff lowering in favour of tw; and yess, these sing very much alive and detailed!

Thanx Danny. Very informative. I’ve built a few of your smaller speaker kits.

As usual...comprehensive balanced approach ...to both speakers ...never the less the price ...with the same professional attantion...wich is great !

If I spent $4000 for 2 bookshelf speakers, I don't expect to have to do anything to them. I'll take the $350 speakers any day of the week and maybe tweak them. The $4000 speakers are for people that like to say they spent $4000 on speakers to impress someone, and probably couldn't tell the difference in sound quality anyway.

That seriously was a great video. It does make you wonder about price . The upgrades you did were well within a reasonable cost. If it were me I would go for the Wharfdale

I like Wharfedale speakers. I've had a set of Diamond 8's for some time and they've been great.

Agree. But it is a little more complicated then it seems according to my own experience. Parts can be better but must be a match with the rest of the speaker. It is really like making soup. It 's very nice to expirimate with. But then it will cost more to try the different options. When done right to your ears you can win a lot with a upgrade. You can also try to expirimate with damping material. Nice video!

Often you get what you pay for, But in just as many cases, The "Cheap stuff" Can be almost as good. Nice to see a video where someone share theyre thoughts about that phenomenon :-)

As always, great info/review - thanks. Suggestion: label your charts: with all the ads, sometimes tough to follow which is which. Never been impressed with Revel - and certainly not at $4,000!

Love the video. Knowledgeable and sensible fellow. I remember watching another video about speaker wires as antennas, and never bought it the whole way since the level going through kind of makes it pointless if you use reasonable wire, and not necessarily very expensive wire. I'm more of a measurable worth in many things, but he certainly is right about wires being basically antennas. lol

Without watching, I bet a $1 I won't be surprised that the $4k speaker is a rip off.

Ironically, by the age most of us can afford these "high end" speakers, our ears have degraded to the point you really can't tell the difference between $4000 and $400. I feel sorry for anybody who buys this garbage at these prices. OK, maybe not sorry, mostly amused.

This vid made me a new sub. Im moving to new (old 1930’s) house and very interested how to maximize my audio video and keep budget sane…. Thank you for your channel… great information here…

Fantastic well informed video, thank you so much

Great video. I'm curious as to the need to bring the tweeter response up to be more even with the woofer. Dr. Floyd Toole states, and I'm paraphrasing here, that in blind listening tests, speakers with about a -3db slope from lows to highs is a preferred characteristic. So why change it?

I have 4 of the Wharfedale 9.1's in the same colour Cherry on my 5.1 setup along with the Wharfedale Diamond SW250 Subwoofer and I would not bother changing them. They are excellent speakers and it just goes to show you don't have to spend silly money to get quality.

I had the Wharfdale diamond series, The are very warm and punchy bass with no distortion even at high volumes, mid is warm and deep, highs are very laid back and dont extend to high not much sparkle. But they get Loud with no distortion!

you're splitting hairs on the Revel, no need to spend extra on that one. I get it you have a business, however, there is more chance of damage if you make those changes.

Wharfedale should hire you, like yesterday!

Thank you! Really nice informative review as always....

Hello, I own the Diamond 10.1 and really like it. It's exactly the sound I expect and am happy with. I run it on a tube amplifier with 2x8 watts and it plays really great. Thanks for the comparison. greetings from Germany

I'm surprised that 4 grand doesn't get you as much as it should. The Wharfedale on the other hand seems an excellent deal even with the added cost of the upgrade. This is really good info.

Revels $50 worth of parts $3950 worth of Lacquer.

I have had several Wharfedale 9-series Diamond speakers including this 9.1 Diamond. They all sounded dark due to the tweeter being at low level. Midrange is very good on these. Base is also good in models with 6.5" or 8" base/midrange drivers. I always boosted the treble to make them sound better. However boosting treble from the amplifier isn't the real solution. This upgrade kit is what these Diamonds need. Thanks for the great video 👌

Amazing, good stuff and insightful

I am impressed but I would have liked to hear them so I could value the upgrades.

I'd love to see Triad reviewed.

Incredible. Thank you

When I first started my audiophile journey, I upgraded from the Panasonic and Cambridge soundworks setup to a Yamaha separates amp kit and a pair of $2k B&W speakers (20 years ago, don't recall the model numbers). At first and not knowing burn in I thought, great, these things are loved by the magazines. Violas sounded thin and tinny and 80's rock sound loud and still empty. Without GR research vids I sought out a little help from a friend that had been listening to music at the higher end since the mid 70s to find a curse word that rhymes with "wool chit" come from his mouth. My stuff looked great, the amps had some snazzy software. But, the parts inside were pretty much the same as my old gear. I returned the amps and took his advice and tracked down a Rotel amp and a pair of used Legacy Audio bookshelves. What a sea change.

That's insane given the cost disparity.

EXCELLENT!!

Nice review… I’ve always wanted to mod some speakers into full-on studio monitors

I have the Wharfedales and like them. They make a pleasant budget system with a Rotel amp.

I don't expect the need to change a resistor on a 4k$ speaker tbh.

Having to upgrade 4000k speakers is insane. They should be perfect as is 😂

Great video a real eye opener

I own wharfedale diamond 225's...they won both the stereophile and absolute sound product of the year awards in I believe 2017. They Cost $449 new, and can still be had for $299 on sale, but in black only. They are amazing speakers for the price, even more amazing for only $299 on sale. Herb Reichert fell madly in love with the 225's in his review. The late Art Dudley mentioned that he was astounded by the useful response in bass extension measurements, they produced appreciable output down to a shocking 31.5 hz! I think wharfedale did an amazing job designing the 225's. Yes, they contain the crappy all metal nuts on the back side of the binding posts, but for the price, sacrifices were of course made.

I recently purchased a pair of Revel M126be speakers at well below MSRP price. These speakers sound superb with SOTA low distortion electronics (Purifi, Benchmark). I also own Warfdale 11.2 speakers which are nice but do not sound anywhere as good as the Revels. I did a measurment in my living room which you can see in an ASR thread on this video. You can also see measurements in the Audioholic's review for the M126be which includes measurements directly from Mark Glazer at Revel. All these graphs look exceptionally flat. I enjoy Danny's videos, but he is straining credulity when he equates Revels with the Warfdales. Do your research and of course listen as well to be an informed listener. Also, the Audiholics review clearly measures and states that the Revel are "8 ohm speakers". I find it troubling that Danny states these are 4 ohm speakers and throws into doubt his testing regimin.

I agree with the math on the cheap speaker. Focusing on the price of the original is the wrong way to look at it. All that matters is what you get in the end and what that's worth to you compared to the total cost. I know thinking in terms of something cheap might never get good makes sense, but it isn't a hard rule. If the cheap thing really can get great, who cares what it cost to start? In fact, the less it costs to start, the better!

Simply awesome 👌 thank u so much for all your helpful info.

learning a ton, thank you.

These type of videos never get old and me being too over analytical i love to know what the high end stuff compared to the average stuff is made of which alot of people overlook or are new and just lack the knowledge.

I had the stock wharfedale’s -- a very pleasant speaker similar to dynaco a25. I imagine the upgrade might be worth it.

👍 Nice presentation. I think the key take away here is that you can’t totally depend on speaker system manufacturers to optimally design any product regardless of its price, so most products can be improved by design alterations or upgrading crossover components at the very least. I have done crossover upgrades on every speaker system I own, it just goes with the territory. 👨🏻 Cheers!🥳

I have a friend who is an engineer for a high end audio manufacturer here in the UK, he has had his setup tuned to his hearing loss,

The speaker drivers in the more expensive Revels would be expected to be a lot better than in the Wharfedales so even after putting new subcaps in to the crossovers of both speakers I would expect the Revels to still sound a lot better. You generally get what you pay for in audio although you do get diminishing returns.

Even the Wharfedales are vastly over priced! Results like these will never ever surprise me.The difference here is perceived quality based on the manufacturers name.Snobbery insists that Wharfedale are no better than toys for hi-fi 'experts' (a term I use VERY loosely).Expensive components in their system are worn as a badge of honour when listed on the tagline at the end of their posts on hi-fi and audio forums. These people genuinely believe that if they spend money on their system,it must sound better right? A neighbour of mine from a few years ago spent an absolute fortune on his gear and always called me in to have a listen when he made an upgrade.He spent £300 on a set of aluminium cones to sit the power amp on (about £5 worth in real money) and was convinced he could hear a difference.The only difference I could hear was the disapproving sounds from his wife.I had to be polite and gave it a 'Maybe,difficult to tell really'.

I stumbled on this video and learned a lot. Thanks.

i have some delta 30's I picked up at a yard sale for $10 and I absolutely love them.

Every stock crossover unit you’ve come across regardless of how beefy they look, you priced them out at around $10-$20 in parts and add “probably made in China”. GR DIY kit with only 2 ploy caps, 2 resistors, 2 wires and binding posts = $258... 🤷‍♂️

I have a set of wharfedale bookshelf speakers, they are older and made of real wood

A very interesting video and I learned a lot about speakers. As a consumer and not someone who thinks about taking them apart and upgrading them I am not surprised that upgrading a cheaper speaker would pay dividends as they are trying to hit a price point in a competitive market. However a $4000 pair I would expect to have better quality parts already fitted and the sound does the talking. It proves that a glossy finish and size does not mean value for money and I am sure if you go up the Wharfdale model range the Revels will be shown to be what they really are.

Honest review from GR 😃

Wharfedale is still the company which is serious about speaker build, applying the old school, proven techniques to the modern build expected these days. Have had their D11.2 and D11.4 for close to 4 years now and never looked back. Previously a pair of 9.3. For the price, you will hardly find any better than Wharfies, in general.