GWT vs. GWT Argentina vs. GWT New Zealand - Friendly Ties Podcast

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JonGetsGames

JonGetsGames

Күн бұрын

Welcome to the Friendly Ties podcast! Today Anastasia, Jonathan, and Nick discuss four different versions of Great Western Trail: 1st Edition, 2nd Edition, Argentina, & New Zealand. View the video version and let us know what you think by leaving a comment here - • GWT vs. GWT Argentina ...
To listen to this in audio-only form, search for Friendly Ties on your favorite podcast app and subscribe there!
Introduction - 0:00
1st Edition - 3:36
2nd Edition - 9:01
Argentina - 19:02
New Zealand - 35:59
Comparing all four games - 59:37
Theme song "Unboxing" created by and used with the permission of Michael Chadwick - michaelchadwick.info
BGG link - boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1...
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Пікірлер: 28
@jasonstockmal2938
@jasonstockmal2938 3 ай бұрын
Awesome job guys. Love the different viewpoints and how you kept the games as separate entities that build upon similar concepts/mechanics - Like three kids with the same parents. I will be buying NZ and play it as I am "sitting on the 😀😀dock of the quay."
@JonGetsGames
@JonGetsGames 3 ай бұрын
I hope you enjoy it!
@dicecorgi
@dicecorgi 3 ай бұрын
An excellent episode! Probably helped that I already like 2nd edition and Argentina, but it was great to hear the comparisons and your thoughts on each game.
@PatrickoftheIsles
@PatrickoftheIsles 2 ай бұрын
Always a pleasure to hear a fellow enthusiast share the joy of the greatest euro game every made. I think I'm at about 1,500 games of it played myself. When trying new games I often find myself asking: "why aren't I just playing Great Western Trail instead" 🤠
@jacobjslee
@jacobjslee 3 ай бұрын
I just want you guys to know that I ordered New Zealand based on this video. And I have never played - or wanted to play - a Great Western Trail game before. I always had a reason to dismiss it in the past. Your discussion is too compelling to ignore. If I don't end up liking it I hope I learn something from this experience.
@JonGetsGames
@JonGetsGames 2 ай бұрын
I'm glad you enjoyed the discussion, really hope you enjoy NZ!
@jacobjslee
@jacobjslee 2 ай бұрын
@@JonGetsGames Thanks! There's a lot to learn! Still working through the finer details and will try it multiplayer in a couple of weeks. At the moment, Witcher would get the nod over NZ because it is simpler to teach and learn.
@shayanaminnjad5354
@shayanaminnjad5354 3 ай бұрын
I have played the original more than a hundred times, and I really considered buying the new Zealand version, but the setup time and the table space is a real barrier. I wish devising ways to ease the setup and tear down becomes a priority for these kinds of games.
@4815matt
@4815matt 3 ай бұрын
I've played GWT 1st Ed with the expansion and I sold it after a couple plays. It just felt too samey and I think there was a meta that came up that made it boring (that's definitely a player issue not a game issue). Years later, I got GWT NZ and it's much more awesome! More systems, more options and it doesn't feel as punishing as the first one. Plus, there's a dedicated solo mode that works well and helps me to dabble in different strategies I normally wouldn't try.
@Tapio_Tachyon
@Tapio_Tachyon 2 ай бұрын
I owned all three, but reluctantly downsized to only keep one, which ended up being the original GWT 2e. Even though I enjoyed Argentina a lot, reworking the hazards into a new type of worker and more interesting deliveries were such great changes. NZ is currently my least favourite, I'll play it and have fun with it, but as Nick said, for me it was a "bridge too far" in terms of how many different mechanisms and subsystems were added. It started to feel like playing a game that's just slightly bloated and unwieldy cause someone at the table wanted to play with all the different expansions and extra modules at the same time, I don't know how else to explain it 😆. I would also dread teaching it, unlike with base GWT 2e, which I'll be able to pull off the shelf at any time and instantly know all the rules, which ended up being the biggest reason to keep that one over Argentina, even though I like both about the same amount. Great episode 😄
@timoseppa9124
@timoseppa9124 3 ай бұрын
I remember being thankful for that initial review helping me not to make the mistake of getting GWT. The theme was right in my wheelhouse - the Old West, trains - but it seemed like a slog and the hazards seemed ill-conceived. I listened to you all mostly gush about GWT...and it still sounds the same to me - absolutely dreadful. Sounds about as fun as learning the tax code or religious doctrine. Maybe I'll play someday and find that I'm completely wrong. I do like Maracaibo - that's Pfister as well, right? - so I know that everything of his isn't dreadful/doesn't sound dreadful. But boy, this sounds like so much more tedium than fun.
@ilqrd.6608
@ilqrd.6608 3 ай бұрын
Friendly ties!!! Yes!!!
@timoseppa9124
@timoseppa9124 3 ай бұрын
Also, is the key pronunciation of quay correct? Just seemed so strange. My quick online search showed each of kway, kay, and key as options. If so, I'll stick with kway, which is what it looks like.
@thereelaristotle
@thereelaristotle 3 ай бұрын
Thanks for mentioning that you remove the exhaustion cards from your deck when you get to BA in Argentina. That rule is in a "Note" box in the rules instead of just in the rule text...and I clearly just blew off the "Note" box because I've played 4 versions of this game and don't need your little asides....until they are actual rules.
@bdelzerful
@bdelzerful 3 ай бұрын
One of my favorite episodes of one of my favorite board game podcasts. I have long been enamored of Great Western Trail, and like Nick played the heck out of it during Covid. I love the 'slow hand manipulation' mechanic, I find it so satisfying and a unique puzzle. It does have some sharp elbows, which I find part of the charm but does cause people to bounce off of it a bit. Agree that 2nd edition is superior, and would recommend that fans upgrade. I haven't had the chance to play GWT: Argentina. I've gotten to play GWT: New Zealand twice now and absolutely adore it. It is just a joy to explore. Somehow Pfister has thrown everything and the kitchen sink into a redesign and come out the other end with what might be the ultimate 'sandbox' euro. I do agree that it's a bear to set up, and it's maximalist design choices make it a real slog to teach. Also it does not really fit on a table. But I love it just the same. If it were on BGA I'd be playing it every day easy.
@JonGetsGames
@JonGetsGames 2 ай бұрын
While I enjoy NZ, as stated in the video, I will say that I have yet to teach it and I imagine that may color my impression of it.
@RaduStanculescu
@RaduStanculescu 3 ай бұрын
Hmm, why did you guys say that builders were buffed in second edition?
@phoenicksgaming
@phoenicksgaming 2 ай бұрын
More buildings to choose from, a building that benefits builder a bit more, very mild nerfs to the other strategies. Builders was already quite good, and I think 2e almost only improved it (except removing the busted combo from 1e, which definitely needed to go).
@JimmySquiky
@JimmySquiky 3 ай бұрын
As a french person I find your pronounciation of "quai" so funny. You both got half of it right ! Anastasia got the end right and Nick the beginning. It's pronounced "ké" the u is silent.
@master55555
@master55555 3 ай бұрын
Always been too intimidated by the dry theme and the crazy rulebook of 1st edition to try this one out.
@phoenicksgaming
@phoenicksgaming 3 ай бұрын
The rulebook are....not my favorite. -Nick
@spacemonkeyentertainment6413
@spacemonkeyentertainment6413 3 ай бұрын
As to Nicks comment on 1st Ed. vs 2nd Ed. i would have to disagree. While i'm personally not a fan of the visual/thematic changes, imo 1st Ed. is less balanced than 2nd Ed. to the point that i would argue that 1st Ed. NEEDS the expansion. I still have my 1st Ed. base game + expansion and enjoy playing it that way, but if i had to buy it new, it would be 2nd Ed. all the way, because it is mechanically more solid, which trumps visual changes any day. If one is "stuck" with 1st Ed. that is far from the end of the world, but i would suggest houseruling the Kansas change anyway. It already rounds out the game a lot better and is not hard to implement. Bounced off of Argentina, but probably mostly because i wasn't in the mood to expand my collection and was rather culling games from my shelf, so that might have influenced the way i felt about it. Also, i think i was comparing it to GWT+RttN. I could see somebody get it over GWT 1st Ed. , but the ability to go 2nd Ed RttN, if one is willing to play/invest in expansions imo is still a point in its favor. Haven't played NZ yet, but sounds like i really need to at some point. From what i'm hearing though, i find it odd that NZ seems like it makes Argentina obsolete in a way. Maybe i haven't played Argentina enough to appreciate the more subtle differences, but NZ sounds like "all the cool stuff, but even more cool stuff... also sheep instead of cows because NZ". So unless i really am set on the cow part, i don't see why i would pick Argentina over NZ.
@phoenicksgaming
@phoenicksgaming 3 ай бұрын
Argentina is a tighter game. It feels more like a GWT expansion, whereas NZ has enough changes that it feels like a new game with the same system. I'm curious what I said about 2e/1e that you disagreed with because I agree 1e is less balanced? Maybe just the degree of balance, since I think the games are close enough? We didn't get into the weeds in the discussion but the one particular building combo in 1e is especially exhausting. -nick
@spacemonkeyentertainment6413
@spacemonkeyentertainment6413 3 ай бұрын
@@phoenicksgaming Oh, sorry for responding so late, didn't get a notification. Specifically i was referring to the whole "If you have to pick between a good deal on 1st Ed and a new 2nd Ed, it doesn't really matter, it's essentially the same game" part early on. Imo 2nd Ed is objectively better, hence i think spending more money on 2nd Ed is justified. Like i said, i still like 1st Ed. but RttN "fixes" it, which is an additional expense. Just wanted to give my perspective on the recommendation as there might be people encountering threads about the superficial changes (i remember a time where threads about the 1st/2nd Ed. changes kept popping up on bgg/reddit, where the discussions were rather "unproductive" to say the least) and basing their decision on that alone. Or to put it differently, in a lot of games the second edition means upgraded components, a rewording/clarifiaction of rules, that previously had been slightly ambiguous etc. In those instances i'm all for the savvy customer. The changes for GWT 2nd Ed are more substantial than that and actually tranform the experience for the better imo. I guess in the end the question is how big of a discount we are talking about and the answer to what difference is justifiable will differ from person to person. I think we are mostly in agreement here and i would assume you understand the nuances between both versions even better than me and it could well be me focussing too much on that particular point because it was such hot button topic before the Argentina release. Without that context though, i also think that most people would not be as interested in that dissection of the topic to the extent that i would be. At that pace, the podcast would be 3h long though ;)
@Skycroft1000
@Skycroft1000 3 ай бұрын
Unfortunately, all these games have the same issue for me, and that is that I hate the feeling of being rushed, and I kind of dislike even _worrying_ about being rushed. And, to be clear, it is the _feeling_ of being rushed that I hate. Rushing the game may or may not be the optimal strategy in any given moment, but the fact that it can be done - and more importantly, the fact that it can be done _to me_ - evaporates most of the enjoyment I might take from these games. Which is sad because I like or even love almost everything _else_ about them! Very similar things can be said for Maracaibo and Boonlake, alas. My personal story with Alexander Pfister is a history of getting my heart broken by designs I love except for this one thing. That said, I'm not a fan of the tax buildings either. I don't like that kind of negative player interaction in general.
@phoenicksgaming
@phoenicksgaming 3 ай бұрын
Yeah tax and time pressure are two of the three main points of interaction (the third being cardboard placed), so I can see why this wouldn't work well for you. -Nick
@ryanamos3665
@ryanamos3665 3 ай бұрын
Thanks for the video. We have played all of them quite a bit, including the first edition. We actually like NZ the least. There are some issues for us.. set up is brutal and is much longer than the other two. It's also offers a lot more freedom but we don't love that.. the player interaction is limited and we don't love how you share spaces in the ports, etc. The game is very bloated. It could easily have something like the pathfinder track removed with little impact on the game. Finally, the bonus cards really slow the game down. You go from being able to plan your turn for the most part to waiting to see what you draw at the start of your turn. It's really a misstep for us. If we had to rank them, Arg > 2nd > NZ. We're older gamers though and appreciate a constrictive system and more interaction in games (Caylus is a top game for us, for example). Thanks for the video though! Appreciate all of your insight.
@phoenicksgaming
@phoenicksgaming 3 ай бұрын
We've mostly played on TTS so haven't had to contend with set up time which definitely seems like a pain. Anastasia and Jon loved having the pathfinder track but I'm with you that it feels pretty tacked on (gold is the other tack on component for me). I've quite liked the openness as a fresh take on the GWT formula, but I can definitely see the same flaws you're mentioning. Btw, for the bonus cards that let you play and redraw, I recommend just house ruling that you can do that during other players' turns so you can go back to planning for your turn as you did before. -Nick
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