Adding Drives to your Home Server Is EASY! …right?

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Күн бұрын

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UPTIME UPDATE:
5/17: At the time of publishing this video, it's had 100% uptime for around 12 days (except for a few times where I had to shut it down to move it)
5/27: System still running fine, but I have to take it offline to use parts in another video. I might set it back up. We'll see.
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Timestamps:
0:00 Is this an easy way to add storage to your home server?
0:57 Sponsor - Manta Sleep
2:16 The D8 Hybrid
5:08 MS-01 and TrueNAS
7:44 HP Mini PC and Proxmox
9:37 UnRAID
10:20 What I would prefer
11:00 Performance vs PCIe
15:06 Teardown
16:34 Noise and power
17:42 Is this worth it?

Пікірлер: 126

@cameronfrye5514 21 күн бұрын

USB on a server can work, I've done it myself.. but for the $300 you'd spend on this, you can have all the hardware minus drives for the NAS you built on a Supermicro X10SLL server board and no USB compromises. Mine with a Quadro P400, 3 of those WD Red 4 TB drives, 3 SSDs and a 2.5 Gb Nic in it draws under 30 watts at idle, and I still have room for an HBA if I need more storage. Mini-PCs have plenty of utility in a home lab, but I wouldn't use one as a NAS if your drive requirements forced you to use USB storage.

@andreas.grundler 21 күн бұрын

Thanks for the information about passing through the serial numbers. That was information that I couldn't find anywhere else.

@RichardNobel 16 күн бұрын

_Serial number passthrough_ in TrueNAS is shown at 5:50 in the video, for anyone who might have missed it or wants to revisit that part.

@jumpmaster5279 23 күн бұрын

Yep, 200$ price tag or 6hhd support either is better, but in this case, i rather get the nas, and enjoy the wireless life, + i can install casaos, then wire guard and then I can access it from anywhere

@EVR1AL 21 күн бұрын

Factoring costs basically same

@Southsidegroovinnn 20 күн бұрын

Lol or network mount it and run a tailscale subnet with this device and the same thing

@kristof9497 23 күн бұрын

price is too high vs diy

@typealt 21 күн бұрын

This video came out at the perfect time! I'm looking to use a mini PC as an all-in-one home server for a 2.5gb router, NAS, Plex, etc. Really looking forward to your long term review, especially if things drop out!

@AndrewFrink 21 күн бұрын

I wish this was just a dumb 4 bay with either a sff-8088 or sff-8644 and sas support.

@BR0KK85 19 күн бұрын

Qnap has drive enclosures like that. Stick an external card in the mini PC and you can add 4 HDDS via sata to your PC

@noahk1720 21 күн бұрын

For a lot less money I've been really impressed by the Syaba 8 bay DAS, which is also over USB. I've had no dropouts that I can perceive, and this is running on a N95 mini PC serving up Jellyfin, SMB, and Hyper-V.

@knghtbrd 21 күн бұрын

Really wish these enclosures had SAS/SATA connectors to bypass the USB entirely for the HD bays-it would still mean bridge chips for the NVMe to SATA, which would probably increase the cost, but I don't really want to connect via USB if I can help it.

@PandaMoniumHUN 21 күн бұрын

The easy way of adding more drives to your home server is to simply buy an ATX/mATX case with a lot of 3.5" slots. People who buy mini PCs for NAS use cases will end up spending more money and taking up about the same space as an mATX case when adding a DAS.

@TAPS147 21 күн бұрын

I’d disagree. even an matx case would be much bigger than a DAS and mini pc and if you’re using a mini pc size probably matters to begin with. Do you have any suggestions of an MATX case that has more than 4 3.5” slots?

@TAPS147 17 күн бұрын

@@wojtek-33 thanks for the suggestions! Both look good but still a bit bigger. Very cool though if you want more powerful hardware

@zanderfaehrteisenbah 24 күн бұрын

The price tag, for something to add 4x SATA plus 4x m.2 device to an existing PC/Server seems to be quite good. But as you mentioned I don’t see a use case for me. With that amount of drives I either would like to use hardware raid spanning ALL drives, or ZFS. But ZFS via USB seems janky. On the other hand I like to see devices with compromises for less money. Thunderbolt would be nice, but I guess it would ramp up the price significantly…

@captain_kills552 21 күн бұрын

I have been having a similar issue with my zfs pool/samba crashing multiple time throughout the transfer alll the time. Dmesg sadly doesn't show any errors when it happens. I have looked all over, but I haven't been able to find what is causing the issue. It was nice to see that I'm not the only one who has these kinds of dropouts.

@kenmorris2858 20 күн бұрын

Thanks for the review as I am looking at a way to add more disks to my Unraid server. Cheers from Nova Scotia...

@anime_reference 20 күн бұрын

I'm looking for a way to keep local backups of some of the data on my existing NAS and I feel like this is actually a perfect thing to fill with smallish surplus drives and plug into one of my existing MFF home servers. I was almost resigned to just buying a beefy external HDD but this is a more interesting solution

@pepeshopping 21 күн бұрын

$300 too much for that. We should start seeing more offerings like this from other vendors as the chipsets are main stream now. USB by DESIGN is RELIABLE! The problem is the specific chipsets and old firmware on them (both host and device).

@Yandarval 21 күн бұрын

Does this machine connect using UASP. As a lot of USB DASs say they do. Yet it does not work.

@jackipiegg 20 күн бұрын

19:42 I'm sure it will work for years, look at the chia handbook, people have done it for 200TB total USB connected to usb pi's, much less a pc.

@saramae9878 21 күн бұрын

What sucks is really, once you get past 2 or 3 drives, you may as well go to a "regular" PC build. Intel makes some very low power current/last gen chips, you can get as many SATA ports as you want, both from the motherboard itself and PCIE boards. It gives you much easier expansion and upgrade paths.

@nielsdebakker3283 20 күн бұрын

a N100 mini itx with a 6 port sata riser for the m.2 slot comes to mind...

@saramae9878 20 күн бұрын

@@nielsdebakker3283 Heck yeah

@davidbronke5484 21 күн бұрын

13:29 I wonder if the higher random read bandwidth vs. sequential might be because the drive can split the load over multiple NAND chips when it's random...

@JessicaFEREM 19 күн бұрын

I mean you might get better speeds with a M.2 to sata adapter but this is neater. plus this could be a fairly substantial small backup drive storage.

@dawn1berlitz 21 күн бұрын

for me its easy with the right sata cables for some of the drives though i need to work on cable management

@MisterSixty 21 күн бұрын

*Thank you for the video* Yeah, I'm looking at an e-hba card and a similar 4-bay enclosure that accepts both SAS/SATA drives. Slightly more expensive but guaranteed to work flawlessly.

@oddohutGaming 17 күн бұрын

How are you liking the MS-01? I'm absolutely in love with mine, primarily gaming, recording, editing. with a thunderbolt E-GPU

@z21c.ch1 14 күн бұрын

Could you try this with a Dell Optiplex 390 or something, would it be possible to use an old computer like that to run as a server I guess, and to put two 4 TB SSD's in and to be able to somehow access it from another computer?

@TheQuickSilver101 21 күн бұрын

This is an interesting product. I'm not sure where it would fit in my life, though. I'd have to find a place for it first. Interesting as always, thanks!

@BenMDepew 21 күн бұрын

I wonder if an m.2 to 5x SATA adapter would work with this.

@ivanmaglica264 21 күн бұрын

USB storage (any kind, high end or low end) do eventually loose connection and reset themselves, so they are not suitable for VM storage. It disconnects and re-enumerates, which leaves VMs hanging. Run them long enough and they will all disappoint.

@TheLazyJAK 20 күн бұрын

the F4-212 is not available or purchase yet, but it's been on their site for months

@peteradshead2383 21 күн бұрын

I've had so many problem running a raid with a usb enclosure , had so many problem how it would pass the drives , with the same serial no and model , plus tons of error before it would drop a disk .

@iman_irannejad 20 күн бұрын

i have 2 hdd drives conecting with sata and im using truenas scale inside proxmox with sata controller passthrough , drives are mirror and im having the same problem with 0 speed transfering files frequently , what do u suggest?

@KiraSlith 20 күн бұрын

Terramaster is one of those companies who's products usually make me go "That's cool, but it's also $20-60 more than I'm comfortable paying for that quality of device", and they almost broke the pattern with this one. NVMe storage is too expensive for those transfer speeds, but without those slots it's functionally the same device as it's predecessor, which had the same price problem as always.

@zach_ry 20 күн бұрын

Might be nice for offsite backups

@jeffhex 19 күн бұрын

Reminds me of a more modern Drobo 5C. But without the Drobo version of RAID built in.

@FlexibleToast 21 күн бұрын

If this was made with thunderbolt, it would probably make a lot more homelab sense.

@mcebelt 21 күн бұрын

I agree even a $300-350 5-6 Bay HDD plus 2 M.2 Slot would be much better option for homelab as it could allow you to scale up quickly. Not super familiar with options to connect to DAS but would love something a little bit more reliable than a USB C.

@jeremyfmoses 21 күн бұрын

The reason I'm looking for SSDs is one, for minimum power draw, and two, because I no longer like the idea of mechanical devices being involved with my storage. In case you're looking for an all-M.2 SSD NAS, I figured out how to stuff 32 M.2s into a single PC using not-so-commonly available (but still consumer) hardware. It would use a few PCIe bridges, but ask me how! :-D

@EVR1AL 21 күн бұрын

How? 1 m2 for 1 PCI lane?

@jeremyfmoses 20 күн бұрын

@@EVR1AL The key component is the OWC U2 Shuttle - a device with a PCIe bridge that allows you to use 4 M.2 drives from a U.2 connection which uses 4 Gen3 PCIe lanes. On an AM5 motherboard with x4x4x4x4 bifurcation, like the ASRock X670E Steel Legend, you can get a card that will convert an x16 slot into 4 U.2 connectors. These aren’t easy to find, but that’s 16 M.2s already. This same board has 4 M.2 slots, each supplying 4 PCIe lanes, and you guessed it, you can get M.2 to U.2 adapters, for 16 more M.2s. And you still have a Gen3x4 PCIe slot open for a 10GBe network adapter, but if you really want, you could use that slot for… another 4 M.2s.

@1steditiongamer276 21 күн бұрын

It's funny to hear you say 10gb bottleneck when I'm only running 1gb.

@sorengeti69 21 күн бұрын

Looks like the perfect way to get much more disk space to my growing Jellyfin Library. I started wit 1TB now i am at 2,8TB within 4 Months (all legal btw). I have about 4 TB left, but i think its just a matter of time i need more space :D Greetings from germany

@johannes7856 21 күн бұрын

Exactly my problem right now... 😂

@shephusted2714 21 күн бұрын

the real issue i have with these nas designs is the cost - why not just use an older pc for more ram, better cpu etc - at serious savings so diy you get the best of both worlds - value and performance. please do an occulink diy nas project and put in fast networking? maybe make it a das

@erbartlett 21 күн бұрын

I think success in life should be measured in the number of days you took naps during the day!

@AndreasMolnar-Dev 21 күн бұрын

Or by the number of cups of coffees consumed

@cheeseisgreat24 19 күн бұрын

For that pricetag, I would be tempted to get it as a local device-specific bulk storage device, but knowing that I can build my own bulk storage device for less than half that price, makes it a non-starter for me personally. But if they’re reliable long-term, I would definitely suggest someone else in my life to get that since that’s cheap enough and expandable enough to solve the problems of my less tech savvy friends and family.

@yasminesteinbauer8565 21 күн бұрын

The prices of these external hard disk enclosures are absolutely inflated. There is no way this thing justifies a price of 300$. For 50$ we can talk about it.

@kendrakirai 19 күн бұрын

The enclosure itself costs about ten bucks in metal and forming, the backplane and such about twenty, the fans another five, the power supply at least forty for one that you'd actually want to use, then the manufacturing of thd enclosure...I think they're too expensive, too, but 50 bucks would be them selling at a loss just on materials alone.

@surewhynot6259 19 күн бұрын

$50? For an enclosure, multiple PCBs with 4 m.2 slots AND 4 SATA slots and all the associated controllers, power supply, USB 10gbps controller, and a fan. Tell me you know nothing about computers without telling me:

@yasminesteinbauer8565 19 күн бұрын

@@surewhynot6259 For 300 I can assemble a computer consisting of a case with at least 4 hard disk bays, power supply, a 13th Gen i3, 32 GB Ram and the matching mainboard (all new). And I'm not even using the very cheapest parts. And I then have a system with which I can fully utilize the performance of the drives (especially the SSDs). There are even complete 4-bay NAS systems starting at 150. Even if the manufacturing costs were that high (and they aren't), there would hardly be a reason for this product category to exist. But apparently there are enough people (apple users?) who simply don't care about price performance.🤷‍♂

@yasminesteinbauer8565 19 күн бұрын

For 300 I can assemble a computer consisting of a case with at least 4 hard disk bays, power supply, a 13th Gen i3, 32 GB Ram and the matching mainboard (all new). And I'm not even using the very cheapest parts. And I then have a system with which I can fully utilize the performance of the drives (especially the SSDs). There are even complete 4-bay NAS systems starting at 150. Even if the manufacturing costs were that high (and they aren't), there would hardly be a reason for this product category to exist. But apparently there are enough people (apple users?) who simply don't care about price performance.

@Yandarval 21 күн бұрын

The enclosure are crying out for an ethernet port. So you can use it as a NAS or a DAS. The lack of any cooling for the M.2s could be a problem, if you do a massive amount of content ingestion.

@charlesdoesmore5488 24 күн бұрын

I do like watching your videos, but the NAS is too expensive.

@TheRGReyes 21 күн бұрын

It sounds good, but I personally would have preferred an NVME DAS

@FeatureComputers 21 күн бұрын

This may be secretly a 20/24 HDD "NAS" , buy 4 M.2 to 4/5 Sata adapters

@VaticanTop 21 күн бұрын

The UGREEN NAS completely decimates this...

@KameraShy 20 күн бұрын

UGREEN OS not ready for Prime Time.

@colonelsandfurz3317 18 күн бұрын

I like you videos! Please consider being other NVME SSDs. These when filled with more than 250GB will drop to 70MB/s. You can find plenty of Amazon reviews and independent tests.

@nstern2 21 күн бұрын

These nas solutions always seem short sighted to me when you can get a Rosewill RSV-L4412U that has 3 times the hot swap sata storage, pair that with a sas card/expander, and you aren't limited to the performance of whatever chipset terramaster puts in them. Yes you end up paying more but being able to swap out hardware as things need updating means you won't need to retire the entire device nearly as quickly.

@Ogk10 21 күн бұрын

NVME is not hotplugable because of pcie so that could be the reason for the errors.

@Andy_Panda 21 күн бұрын

Replace the USB connection with Oculink and then I might be interested.

@TRD_2zz 20 күн бұрын

Exactly. Why has no one made a JBOD enclosure with Oculink yet? I don't know if I have even see a USB 4 one yet. It would be perfect to create a low power home NAS with a mini PC.

@zyghom 15 күн бұрын

I have tested connecting different SSD to TrueNAS and even Debian with ZFS - always the same problem. But not only SSD - enything related to USB connection. And ZFS. Probably ZFS/TrueNAS acts differently on disks and USB is not its fafourite.

@Will-sc3hw 21 күн бұрын

This is the issue the RTL9210 and the RTL9210b are shit chips, i have tried running a pair of usb nvme enclosures with those chips in raid1 and direct and there are issues with random crashes and disconnects(brand makes no difference), Even after updating their firmware not much improves. We are at a stage where usb to sata is rock solid but usb to pcie(nvme) is still shit. Can't find a single non thunderbolt chip that is stable. The day such a chip exists is the day where a usb4 40gb/ usb 20GB dual mode enclosure will be stable and possible.

@RazeacBroksnaerOfficial 21 күн бұрын

the asmedia chips are a cheap way to turn usb to sata and usb to pcie and not worth as an NAS unless its an external hdd enclosure but then ur DIY nas are much superior for 200$

@Its-Just-Zip 20 күн бұрын

I like the idea of this device but I think for most people they should just get the D4 because like you were finding fast ssds especially nvme over USB has problems with reliability, whereas I've been running a D4 with all SATA drives on a trueNas system running from a mini PC for several months now without any problems.

@hoteny 19 күн бұрын

Man i wanna see you do lto video once… or bluray maybe

@nielsdebakker3283 20 күн бұрын

maybe if it has at least thunderbolt 3 or a nic.

@joeofloath 21 күн бұрын

I have never had good luck with USB storage, and I've never had good luck with lots of USB devices all at once, hanging eight drives off one USB bus is cursed and I want nothing to do with it.

@TheULTRAiPOD 21 күн бұрын

Why usb? This is just stupid with 4 nvme slots, even the 4 hdds will fully saturate the 10gbit

@jovaraszigmantas 21 күн бұрын

Hi, love the videos as always, but I hear a clock in the back ground and it drives me insane, perhaps you can move it somewhere further away, thanks

@user-tz5ck1xy5u 20 күн бұрын

Nas is like. Nas is like. Nas is like. Nas is like.

@gsestream 21 күн бұрын

but why use a NAS when you can put multiple SATA3 drives on a potato. you get the operating system functions by default on the side.

@LucasAlves-bs7pf 19 күн бұрын

Can you do a video like "cool things to do with rs232(serial port)"? Its 2024 and a lot of mobos still bring it. I guess its useless. Maybe you can show me i'm wrong LOL

@companyoflosers 19 күн бұрын

good luck getting the full performance of those drives with the bottleneck of the single usb 3.2 port on the back. this is not a good replacement for a nas if you need fast data transfer speeds.

@roadkill11000 21 күн бұрын

For me, it seems like a waste of money for janky hardware with limitations. I'm not sure who their target audience is for this. But thank you for the comprehensive review!

@friedchicken 21 күн бұрын

That's two now

@HappyfoxBiz 20 күн бұрын

at least your sponsor doesn't sell your user data, I might actually check them out... yes, please screen all your sponsors

@JamesTenniswood 21 күн бұрын

Not bad. I think they should have just stuck with the hard disk bays and brought the price down. Or made the SSD storage a separate device

@christianhorn1999 21 күн бұрын

sounds like a good plan of companies to ask upfront if someone may buy their products

@testshoot 21 күн бұрын

These companies WILL produce this stuff, it is just marketing with an earlybird discount. It's false modesty

@edwald4056 21 күн бұрын

Lol. This is cloudfunding while pretending to be testing the water.

@marcogenovesi8570 21 күн бұрын

@@testshoot these crowdfundings are usually to test how big the first run will be

@gsgrzegorz98 21 күн бұрын

200$ is more than my whole server is worth...

@shapedgaming9562 21 күн бұрын

I LOVE YPU

@codyrap95 19 күн бұрын

This seems to be just an external hard drive on steroids. I can see it in a video editor's office who comes with a MacBook and just plugs the usb-c in. Not for any networked/nas usage

@guy_autordie 20 күн бұрын

These manufacturers can't do an enclosure with a PCIe card half height half lenght for a better connectivity? Also someone need to do the 10 inch rack if somebody really care about home rack. (Yes, it's a norm for home)

@misteragony 20 күн бұрын

Always go for the G4 generation of the HP elitedesk machines, they have 10gb/s usb. I'm running Unraid on a HP ELITEDESK 800 G4 with an i5-8500T, internal nvme cache drive and a TerraMaster D6-320, which can hold up to 6 drives. Works great so far.

@sebastian05000 20 күн бұрын

USB4 would make more sense for having 4 nvme ports honestly

@YouTubeGlobalAdminstrator 21 күн бұрын

No SSD cooling... :|

@EddieBarksdale 20 күн бұрын

Maybe off topic but it feels like TrueNAS is becoming less and less a good choice for home users.

@YuNherd 21 күн бұрын

usb enclosures chokes data transfers on a single wire

@InspiredStickman 18 күн бұрын

I like the idea behind this product, but USB is a dealbreaker for me. If this would've featured an eSATA or SAS port, I'd open my wallet immediately.

@GsrItalia 21 күн бұрын

Mixed bag of feelings. Nice setup (4+4 makes some sense) but "unoptimal" execution (1 sata 2 port controller, 2 sata controllers for drive 3 and 4, 4 USB to PCIe controllers for NVMe). Reasonable size but complicated and "too tailored" user scenarios for RAID0, RAID1 and so on. Reasonable capable connection, but this box calls Thunderbolt, USB4 or OcuLink for earn full advantage of NVMes Probably as engineer and cost-to-functionality ratio makes more sense that I can't understand (I know nothing about product and board design) but... how much far from this is, pricely speaking, a 2 bay/2NVMe NAS? I can't really see any fitting scenario for my brains. Also: with 7 USB to something chips in there, this box is a overbuilt USB hub with storage bays. Probably version 2 will be designed in a different way, a way that I could find with a salt of more sense. It's the second box coming from a crowfunding project, yet from known brands in this channel.

@Arek_R. 19 күн бұрын

It's hardly worth the $200 price tag seeing the build quality and simplicity of it. It's a cheap enclosure + electronics of a 4 bay HDD to USB dock + 4 slow nvme readers + pcie packet switch so like total of $50-100 in electronics, and sell price should be like $150.

@testshoot 21 күн бұрын

Is cheap, looks cheap, does it's job very slowly (10gb USB), and marketed through a fake crowdfunding campaign. GFY

@bobbyLovesTech 20 күн бұрын

Too many drawbacks for this to be viable. Seems like they just threw features at it to make it sounds good in marketing.

@JoseAlba87 20 күн бұрын

nice, to bad its still out of my reach

@grim86 16 күн бұрын

these companies need to stop with the USB 3 products theyre crap when you hit multiple drives at a time. They should always use USB4 40gbps

@akanar_1924 21 күн бұрын

SAS DAS or nothing. I'l get a 4U server chassis with dozens of drives before I trust this plastic thing with my data.

@truthdoesnotexist 19 күн бұрын

200 and especially 300 dollar pricetag is crazy expensive for a plastic enclosure with a 5 dollar PCB with sata ports. this couldn't have cost them more than 40 dollars a unit

@timkoster694 21 күн бұрын

Das is way too overpriced vs nas.

@rautamiekka 16 күн бұрын

Very expensive in any case, not worth it.

@ikkuranus 21 күн бұрын

The proper answer is to mock them for expecting a mini PC to be anything other than a mini PC. USB connected storage is a bad idea no matter who makes it.

@GreedoShot 21 күн бұрын

usb? no thanks

@articdev 19 күн бұрын

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