I still haven’t seen “I am Love” although I have been meaning to. Schoenberg certainly saw himself in a line of German composers starting with Bach and extending through himself.

That whole story needs to be a separate video :)

I’m still trying to not overlook the obvious.

That is awesome to hear! How was he as a teacher?

@@danielkrenz He was a fantastic teacher. He had a real gift for being able to "inhabit" a student's style and musical language, without imposing his own stylistic preferences, so that he could offer useful comments and advice to everybody. He made no secret of his lack of enthusiasm for serialism, but even so he was able to offer helpful commentary to the students who wanted to write dodecaphonic works.

@@billclarkcomposer7719 I am glad to hear that. It always seems to be the mark of a good teacher that no matter what their students style, they can still help coach them.

That is an interesting question. I don’t know the Adams chamber symphonies well enough to have a good answer. I heard Schoenberg’s Second String Quartet live once and that was a very striking piece. I know Schoenberg and the entire Second Viennese School really admired Mahler. They saw him as still in line with the German tradition but he had expanded it in many ways.

I’m glad that you enjoyed it!

I think you may be referring to Adams piece “Harmonium.” That piece has a chorus and was written a bit before Harmonielehre. Also an absolutely amazing piece!

@@danielkrenz Quite right. Thank you.

I have Schoenberg's treatise on harmony. I haven't read it completely, but I have flipped through it for reference. I plan on going through it systematically one day. Schoenberg was incredibly highly regarded as a professor of theory and harmony.

That is an interesting angle I have not considered before. I know Adams explicitly references Schoenberg in this piece, but maybe Stravinsky by proxy. It is interesting to note that even Stravinsky turned to the 12-tone method later in his life.

I can almost see him doing the Ozzy metal hand gesture. Just at the entry of the retrograde inversion of the row.

I need to do a video about those two…

@@danielkrenz It would be great. Synesthesia for live... and death.

Adams has said (on his website I believe) that he was directly inspired by Sibelius’ use of muted celli. So in Adams 2nd movement he uses extensive muted celli.

@@danielkrenz Thanks! I didn't find that; I have yet to explore Earbox thoroughly.

I don't know the Penguin Cafe Orchestra, I will go check it out!

That is Gurrelieder by Arnold Schoenberg!

@@danielkrenz Thanks a lot!

I don't think Adams was being petty or anything. I think he was expressing (and re-expressing) his belief in the power of tonality. That just happens to cut against Schoenberg. Still a fascinating and great piece though!

@@danielkrenz It's even more ironic that Adams is defending tonality and not minimalism. This bares no similarities to someone like Mozart or the Artusi scandal. To him minimalism must be a language, which kind of sets him apart from Reich. I'm kind of curious what will be considered "simplistic" in the future, possibly Schoenberg himself?

Have you read "Hallelujah Junction" by Adams? It is his auto biography and a very well written book imo. It is also very well curated and produced, but nevertheless there are some great insights in there about his thoughts on minimalism and an 'effective' musical language.

I don't know about that quote, but if you find it let me know. I couldn't imagine Schoenberg saying that, but he also did say that "there is plenty of good music still to be written in C major."

@@danielkrenz I heard that quote about C major too and don't find it completely surprising he'd says that. I also heard Schoenberg thought the 12-tone method he developed was a fantastic way to generate interesting material to work with, but it wasn't an end in itself. Have you read anything that confirms he said something like that? He did step back towards tonality in some of his late works, such as the Theme and Variations in G minor Op. 43b and Ode to Napoleon Bonaparte Op. 41. The latter is one of my favorite pieces of his. FWIW, I love most of his music (romantic, free-atonal, late-somewhat-tonal) but not the stricter 12-tone works.

@@chrispc I have had trouble tracking down the source of those quotes. I see them posted online, but I can't seem to find any source deeper than that. I think it is a way to generate material, but I doubt that a composer like Schoenberg would just see the 12 tone method as a way to generate material.

I am not sure where you can for free online. But it is published by Hal Leonard.

I think I know the CD set that you are talking about, and I really cherish the recording of Webern's Passacaglia on there.

A bit of a snob remark about his German pronunciation there...

@@JohnathandosSantos No, I don't agree. To me, it's a matter of respect for other cultures and languages. We (the rest of the world) go through the trouble of learning another language, the least that an American or Englishman can do is get the pronunciation right of a language they certainly did nothing to understand.

I do not think that the modern day popularity of one’s work determines if it had an impact. Certainly Schoenberg’s brand of dodecaphonic music has fallen out of fashion, however, I am at a loss to think of a more consequential musical figure in the 1900’s. Perhaps Stravinsky? But even Schoenberg had an effect on Stravinsky. Would you say that Schoenberg didn’t change the course of music? If so, I’m curious who you think has changed the course of music.

@@danielkrenz Thanks for asking. Louis Armstrong. Also Duke Ellington, Gershwin even. The consequential western music of the early 20th century is the Afro-American style called Jazz. It is this style that parallels the work of the important visual artists of the day, not the music of composers like Schoenberg. Similarly Jazz musicians effectively added to the musical vocabulary of western music, including new ways of being dissonant and new ways of using traditional instruments. These new sounds and techniques had a powerful impact, on par with the visual arts. I'm not commenting on the quality of Arnold's music, but how important it really is to western civ. Not very. Let's have the same sense of scale applied to music that we do to the visual arts.

Haha I do not intend for this video to bash Schoenberg. But just to show Adams’ relationship with him.

Do you find that for all Adams? I find there is a pretty big gap between his earlier works and his later stuff. I much prefer the earlier works like Harmonium.

@@danielkrenz sure. I’m being dramatic. But I’d rather listen to something else. ;)

Schoenberg, being one example

Fixed it, thank you!